WDW and DL Pirates to change Redhead scene

[wilkeliza]

Here is a question I have. If it's not okay to have the slavery and selling of women, is it okay for the redhead to have a shotgun and boose in her hands? Obviously different subjects but both can be bad.

To me pirates is a comedic dark ride with some historical accuracies and inaccuracies. Slavery was a huge part of our past. We have learned from that but does that mean we need to get rid of any reference to it?

Eh comparing booze and guns to human slavery is a little bit of a jump.

 

[bladiator]

This whole thread has made me question my sanity ..

Don't a huge majority of people watch R-rated movies? Where people are slaughtered in violent acts much worse than the slavery scene in Pirates? Are we just worried about this because children are allowed to go on this ride? I think that the whole town being burnt to the ground as the pirates drunkenly sing along is way worse. But I'm not going to say anything about that because they told a story with scenes and animatronics that was pretty dang reflective of historical pirates!
Personally I think that taking children on a ride through a haunted mansion is way worse for their psyches, but I'm not going to push for its closure. I don't ride it and that's my choice. Like showing your kids an R-rated movie, I guess.

 

[wilkeliza]

That's ok.... because he's saying "larboard side" anyway.

I thought it was larboard too but then though starboard because of ship terms. Just looked it up and larboard still makes sense because port is relatively new in ship terms.

 

[umichigan10]

Exactly, you would have thought they'd have made the changes sooner. And we could then go into other 'non-politically correct' things in Disney Parks and also in Disney films/tv...

*cough* Peter Pan

 

[dlavender]

They should just change to ride to one big jail scene.

Pirates were terrible and "Look hun, they are all in jail now"

And at the end they all apologize for their actions.

ETA: Gotta change the song

"Yo ho yo ho we all are really sorry"

 

[marcyleecorgan]

I assume it also means the end of the classic line "We Wants The Red Head!"

All right, who's gonna shout it with me when we get to that part of the ride? Audience participation!

The original Pirates was conceptualized in a time when society was looking back with a nostalgic tone to the classic Adventures of literature. 20,000 Leagues, Swiss Family Robinson, Treasure Island...

whether or not people today agree with the actions of today's pirates.... there was/is a time where piratical adventures were glorified! certainly it is ingrained in children's playgames as a genre. it's part of the "social cultural fabric" of the mindset of 1950's America when they were designing and building and imagineering Disney in the first place!

The POTC movies made the violence more accessible to public view - really there weren't THAT many pirate movies previously, and they were not as graphic. So of course you have plenty of people objecting to the violence because it's easier to WATCH it than to drudge oneself through reading a Jules Verne or Robert Stevenson novel...

IMHO : I had a five second conversation with my DD before the ride : "These are pretend pirates, they won't hurt you. Like the movie, remember?" That was that, I'm sure next time I will remind her that these pirates are from a pretend place and they are not at ALL the same pirates that are Real".

Fantasy is separate from reality, though often inspired by it.

 

[ucfknight]

Personally I think the "enhanced interrogation" techniques being displayed in the scene before the auction are also offensive and should be removed post-haste.
Not to mention the glorification of alcohol use throughout. They are promoting drunk boating.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Is it clear though? If everyone knew it was bad, then why is there mourning over the potential loss of the 'we wants the redhead' line? It's a line born out of the auction. If the auction is clearly bad, then so is the resulting sentiment

Just one other comment - I did want to thank you for bringing this up as I think this is the type of discussion that in general should happen in society and opening ourselves to how other people might view things is important

 

[bladiator]

They should just change to ride to one big jail scene.

Pirates were terrible and "Look hun, they are all in jail now"

And at the end they all apologize for their actions.

ETA: Gotta change the song

"Yo ho yo ho we all are really sorry"

And then they all are paroled early for good behavior and decide to start touring the country doing seminars on their rehabilitations from female slavery auctions.

 

[rteetz]

Eh comparing booze and guns to human slavery is a little bit of a jump.

My point is that neither are necessarily politically correct.

 

[Texans_loyal]

If we're going to get technical, nothing about a pirate is "politically correct". let them do whatever the want in WDW but leave DL alone.

 

[umichigan10]

Don't worry guys, at least we still have "pirates of the pancreas" for unaltered swashbuckling fun!

 

[MamaBelle4]

Here is a question I have. If it's not okay to have the slavery and selling of women, is it okay for the redhead to have a shotgun and boose in her hands? Obviously different subjects but both can be bad.

To me pirates is a comedic dark ride with some historical accuracies and inaccuracies. Slavery was a huge part of our past. We have learned from that but does that mean we need to get rid of any reference to it?

Here's the thing though, as you admit booze and guns aren't equivalent to having a person as a slave. And more importantly, the slavery of our past isn't what this part of the ride is referencing. This part of the ride is making light of human trafficking and having women as sex slaves. Something that is very real and very prominent today.

I wouldn't have asked for the change, but I won't mourn the change. It is sad that part of Walt's contribution is gone, but, if not for him there would be none of it. As long as there is Mickey, there is Walt.

 

[Minnesota!]

Lame.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

My point is that neither are necessarily politically correct.

Right, and neither are the natives in The Jungle Cruise, all the murders in the story of the Haunted Mansion, or about 40% of the lyrics in the Country Bears

Question is - do we change everything or can we pick some that are especially wrong or can be conveyed about tacitly approving something/less clear that it is fake/for goofs?

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Here's the thing though, as you admit booze and guns aren't equivalent to having a person as a slave. And more importantly, the slavery of our past isn't what this part of the ride is referencing. This part of the ride is making light of human trafficking and having women as sex slaves. Something that is very real and very prominent today.

I wouldn't have asked for the change, but I won't mourn the change. It is sad that part of Walt's contribution is gone, but, if not for him there would be none of it. As long as there is Mickey, there is Walt.

But alcoholism is very real today, gun control is a very real issue today, etc

I think it is fair to say this is a more serious thing or one people don't pay attention to enough or shouldn't be presented as something humorous, etc - but other issues today as well

 

[umichigan10]

I guess it's still better than them making "enhancements" from the most recent film. That was what I was ultimately dreading

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Honestly, I think that anyone who chooses to wear the shirt either hasn't considered the implications of the line, or has and chooses not to care. You don't have to actively engage in a broken system to support it. Yeah, Disney is all about escapism, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't exist.

I truly respect your opinion on the matter and can def tell it is near and dear to you but I will say there are so many things in life that one can perceive to be along the lines of what you are thinking.

Probably one of the examples I can think of is people where shirts for their State where that state happened to support slavery for example. So just in my area you've got KS and MO. A person who wears a KS shirt isn't necessarily stating "no slavery" and a person who is wearing a MO shirt isn't necessarily stating "yes slavery". You can make that case of course but it's doubtful that it's their intent to be perceived that way and that's saying a lot considering the past KS and MO has had.

You can make a case for wearing the t-shirt of the Pirates attraction but it's doubtful their intent is to be perceived in the way you have presented.

 

[LYSE]

I find this depressing. This was Walts baby and they keep on messing with it. The story is about pirates, its not supposed to be PC. I didnt know that sacking a town, threatening to drown the mayor, shooting guns at nothing in particular, and drinking yourself into a coma while setting the town on fire is all good conduct. Who knew.... As a women I dont find this at all upsetting, the scene fit the ride perfectly. They have already made too many changes to a classic. And IMO the best ride at Disneyland.

 

[SureAsLiz]

Well of course Pocahontas isn't historically accurate. I was thinking even more recent than that though like post 2005.

I guess we just see it differently. Movies overall have changed overtime. Society has changed overtime. When those historically incorrect or racist, etc. type movies came out they were okay in those time periods. Society didn't reject them and they were accepted. I'll use song of the south as an example. When that movie came out it was considered fine and people didn't go nuts about just how bad it is. Now it wouldn't be allowed to come out.

The world and people has progressed and changed. It will continue to do so because that's what humans do.

I think Disney has done an amazing job moving forward and being ahead of the curve with these types of things.

Accepted and okay are two different things. Slavery was accepted, but that didn't make it okay.

You can't be both ahead of the curve and accepted by society. That's not how it works. And the thing about coded racism is that it slips under the radar. It's not supposed to be obvious, otherwise it would clearly be Not Okay. A racist movie isn't less racist just because of when it came out.

Disney may have been ahead on technology, but not their themes

I brought up Princess and the Frog (2009)
Tangled (2010) takes place in an imaginary kingdom that's completely white excepting maybe two of the ruffians who are unnamed and have no lines
Elena (2017) is a Hispanic princess, as if all Hispanic or Latin cultures can be grouped into a single characterization. (and lets not forget the fact that they tried to pass off Sofia as being Hispanic)
There is still no major character on the LGBT+ spectrum. We kind of got LeFou in BATB, but that was what, a 1 second interaction? And there's also this history of coding villains as on the spectrum.
Quasimodo is the only major character I can think of presented with any sort of disability, and how much can you find with him in merchandise?

Here is a question I have. If it's not okay to have the slavery and selling of women, is it okay for the redhead to have a shotgun and boose in her hands? Obviously different subjects but both can be bad.

Because selling human beings as property is not okay.
It's not that both can be bad. It's that human trafficking is bad. That's it.

Just one other comment - I did want to thank you for bringing this up as I think this is the type of discussion that in general should happen in society and opening ourselves to how other people might view things is important

I appreciate that. It's not an easy topic. I recognize that I'm not going to change anyone's mind today. But if it gets people thinking, then that's whats important.