Have any other DVC owners lost their points because of Disney's closures?

[CanadaDisney05]

However, they are all part of the same corporation, and they certainly could work out the internal accounting.

This!

Yes Disney treats DVC as it's own company but ultimately it's all under the same leadership. DVC/DVD is constrained in what they can do with respect to timeshare law, but there is absolutely nothing preventing them from a make-good internally. Whether they SHOULD is a different question, but certainly they COULD.

It's actually pretty complex within a company the size of Disney under accounting rules for publicly traded companies. This isn't you Venmoing someone for your share of drinks.

While the complexities of doing the accounting for transfer pricing can be complex, at the end of the day Disney is one corporate umbrella. Leadership setup a financial and legal structure as part of a larger strategy, but along with forming that structure comes some drawbacks that they were well aware of. Setting up the organization this way was a matter of choice, not a requirement. I don't think as a consumer we should be letting Disney off the hook because of the complexities of transfer pricing. As a consumer, I don't care that these are different legal entities. At the end of the day, its the same leaders making decisions and the same shareholders profiting off of the structure leadership setup.

Edit: Just to be clear so I don't contradict myself. I don't believe that Disney is obligated to give anything to DVC members who's points expired, but I do think it would be a gesture of goodwill. I however, don't buy into the BS excuse that they can't give away things like tickets, or hotel rooms, or dining plans, or whatever else because these are profit centre's from separate entities. Resorts can charge DVC full price to satisfy transfer pricing rules. Outside of some potential negligible tax issues, it doesn't really matter if one entities' revenue is higher and one is lower this year. At the end of the day, shareholders earn the same profit, and any management's compensation can be made whole by the higher ups.

 

[Soap_1984]

I agree with the general sentiment that they must do something. They give park discounts and discounts on other things that may fall under jurisdiction of other corporate entities. At the end of the day they report together and it is no issue really. At the end of the day, can you treat cash guests that much better than your own members who have paid in way more and made longer commitments TO DISNEY (aka not just dvc). To the customer it is irrelevant what entities report where for accounting purposes. It makes no sense and it won't fly; they are just waiting to see the impact then they will do something. If they don't there will be issues...the resorts aren't open. Anyone who thinks disney will just plug their noses here has even less faith in dvc than I do (kudos to you on that)

 

[Soap_1984]

Christine M. McCarthy Senior Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer for The Walt Disney Company, had total compensation in 2019 of $14,974,155 (per the proxy statement filed with the SEC) I would think that indicates she is probably pretty good at her job and could work through the complexities.
Especially if it would good for the corporate bottom line under the scenario I described in my post.

The accounting is no more complex in a large company than anything else (I.e. Legal). Every time someone gives a dvc member a gold pass I'm sure parks doesn't have an alarm go off and get a team of accountants on it. The system is well developed and situations like this may require a bit of work but good accounting means you don't make decisions solely based on accounting. they make business decisions and you figure out how to account for it.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

but good accounting means you don't make decisions solely based on accounting. they make business decisions and you figure out how to account for it.

 

[TraderSamWDW]

The Walt Disney Company will do what it best for the Walt Disney Company. Every sub-division/legal entity will do the same. The big thing is about individual Profit and Loss statements. If DVC gives someone a free AP, then they pay Parks for it. It is not the accounting that is the issue, that's just work, it is the compensation which tends to be based on P&L's, but Disney reworked their compensation model last year because of DIsney Plus (straight from "Ride of a Lifetime"), So they can do pretty much what they need to.
They just did it again, do you think The Pixar leadership is going to take a hit because their P&L lost out on the revenue from Onward since it went straight to Disney+? If that were the case, that would have opened in the fall or even next year. The WD Company decided what was best.

Also, I do not think Disney has, as of yet taken any Federal money, so I am not sure where that whole line of logic comes in to play.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

If DVC gives someone a free AP, then they pay Parks for it. It is not the accounting that is the issue, that's just work, it is the compensation which tends to be based on P&L's,

That's pretty much the point. Compensation of management based on individual entities P&L is a negotiation between top leadership and management and is not my concern as a consumer. I don't give them a pass because that is how they decided to structure their compensation schedule. That was their own decision.

 

[TraderSamWDW]

That's pretty much the point. Compensation of management based on individual entities P&L is a negotiation between top leadership and management and is not my concern as a consumer. I don't give them a pass because that is how they decided to structure their compensation schedule. That was their own decision.

And that was my point, it doesn't have to be, and Disney changed this a lot last year since they were going to have to cannibalize business units for the sake of Disney plus.
I'm agreeing with you - the 'they can't do this because it's a different business unit' argument is bogus. In fact, if it's the best for their shareholders, they have a fiduciary responsibility TO DO it.

 

[Sandisw]

That's pretty much the point. Compensation of management based on individual entities P&L is a negotiation between top leadership and management and is not my concern as a consumer. I don't give them a pass because that is how they decided to structure their compensation schedule. That was their own decision.

You don’t think DVC owners should have an understanding, of how it works and is structured via our POS?

Thats not to say DVCM should not be working to negotiate, but just that it’s not as easy to for them to offer to members, without another division being involved..

 

[Alice Sr.]

Thank you Delta for extending my flight credits...I very much appreciate that you were able to work through whatever the financial implication is to your company in a timely manner, and choosing to extend a bridge so I have a better opportunity to use that which I was not able to through no fault of yours. I hope other companies near and dear to my heart find a way to follow your lead.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Thats not to say DVCM should not be working to negotiate, but just that it’s not as easy to for them to offer to members, without another division being involved..

The reason it's "not as easy" is because of their own internal constraints, not external factors. It was their own decision making that lead to this structure

 

[Sandisw]

The reason it's "not as easy" is because of their own internal constraints, not external factors. It was their own decision making that lead to this structure

True, but we as owners agreed to that when we bought. That was my only point. Its all over the POS..which I myself never realized until I actually read the bulk of it since this started.

So, as DVC owners, we are at the short end of these negotiations when it comes to Disney bailing us out. Given that they are struggling as well...and having a child who may get caught up in it...I am just not convinced owners are going to be the priority for those other divisions.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Thank you Delta for extending my flight credits...I very much appreciate that you were able to work through whatever the financial implication is to your company in a timely manner, and choosing to extend a bridge so I have a better opportunity to use that which I was not able to through no fault of yours. I hope other companies near and dear to my heart find a way to follow your lead.

Meanwhile, Delta is screwing my family over. So there is not consistency even with companies some are holding up as "doing things."

(Delta would like you to know there is no reason my family cannot or should not fly to Seattle right now.)

 

[Alice Sr.]

Meanwhile, Delta is screwing my family over. So there is not consistency even with companies some are holding up as "doing things."

(Delta would like you to know there is no reason my family cannot or should not fly to Seattle right now.)

So sorry to hear that.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Thats not to say DVCM should not be working to negotiate, but just that it’s not as easy to for them to offer to members, without another division being involved..

True, but we as owners agreed to that when we bought. That was my only point. Its all over the POS..which I myself never realized until I actually read the bulk of it since this started.

So, as DVC owners, we are at the short end of these negotiations when it comes to Disney bailing us out. Given that they are struggling as well...and having a child who may get caught up in it...I am just not convinced owners are going to be the priority for those other divisions.

What exactly did we agree to in our POS? I'm not suggesting Disney has to compensate anything for points lost. What I am suggesting is that hiding behind the excuse of "hotels and parks and DVC and movies and Disney plus, etc... are all different eldivisions, therefore there their is no real way to compensate anyone using tools outside of their own entity" is BS. It's a fictional wall that they can tear down at anytime if they so choose.

 

[Sandisw]

What exactly did we agree to in our POS? I'm not suggesting Disney has to compensate anything for points lost. What I am suggesting is that hiding behind the excuse of "hotels and parks and DVC and movies and Disney plus, etc... are all different eldivisions, therefore there their is no real way to compensate anyone using tools outside of their own entity" is BS. It's a fictional wall that they can tear down at anytime if they so choose.

It is all over the POS that TWDC, or its divisions, are not responsible for the inner workings of DVC. In some sections it mentions losses,

So, they can not be held liable for things going on with DVC. They could agree to, but, we have no right to expect them to,

Ive spent the past few weeks reading over it. Learned a lot and that is one od it,

Why do you think We don’t get ticket discounts other than AP? Because DVC can’t offer it without negotiating a deal with that division,

We don’t have to like it, but that is the way it is,

One example: Last line. Sorry it’s small: Owners assume all risk and liability from the use and ownership of the property.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

It is all over the POS that TWDC, is in no responsible for the inner workings of DVC. In some sections it mentions losses,

So, they can not be held liable for things going on with DVC. They could agree to, but, we have no right to expect them to,

Ive spent the past few weeks reading over it. Learned a lot and that is one od it,

I agree with that. I think I said it multiple times that I don't believe DVC has any obligation to make members whole who lost their points. We as owners took on a certain level of risk in exchange for a reduced cost of stay and possible capital appreciation. But I also believe that hiding behind the excuse that DVC and WDW and any other Disney division are separate entities therefore it would be costing DVC more money because they have to pay the other division, is just that. It's an excuse. And one I don't personally buy. If they wanted to, they are perfectly capable of providing those offerings at Disney's cost price, not retail cost.

 

[Sandisw]

I agree with that. I think I said it multiple times that I don't believe DVC has any obligation to make members whole who lost their points. We as owners took on a certain level of risk in exchange for a reduced cost of stay and possible capital appreciation. But I also believe that hiding behind the excuse that DVC and WDW and any other Disney division are separate entities therefore it would be costing DVC more money because they have to pay the other division, is just that. It's an excuse. And one I don't personally buy. If they wanted to, they are perfectly capable of providing those offerings at Disney's cost price, not retail cost.

You May understand that legally they don’t have to but there are a lot of others who believe that Disney has a legal responsibility to, and that is the difference,

All of their divisions are taking a huge hit, with people being furloughed in parts that can’t operate.

If they have decided that can’t..or won’t..keep employees from taking a hit...I just dont see them putting DVC owners at the top of the list to help right now, Not to say DVCM May not be trying, but the reality is, if TWDC says no, it’s no.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

if TWDC says no, it’s no.

I think this is 100% my point. It is TWDC that would be saying no. It's not some fictional outside source.

For example. Let's just say DVC wanted to give members 10 free park tickets for every 100 points they lost. The constant rumblings I hear, is that would be costing DVC $500 each because they have to pay the parks division $500. My point is that is BS. DVC is a separate entity on paper, but at the end of the day, the profits earned by DVC and Parks all go to the same people, the shareholders. For every $1 DVC spends on park tickets, Parks earns $1 in revenue. 1 - 1 = 0. There is zero cost to the shareholders (besides some immaterial tax possibilities). The only cost to the shareholders is the same cost the Parks division would have if they were the ones giving it away.

The only argument I hear again against that is that managements bonuses are tied to financial performance if their own entities. Again, I call BS. That is their own internal negotiations and they can just as easily eliminate intercompany transactions from the calculations

Edit: just to be clear, I'm not suggesting they have to or even should offer things like free tickets. I'm just taking away this particular excuse off the tsble

 

[Sandisw]

I think this is 100% my point. It is TWDC that would be saying no. It's not some fictional outside source.

For example. Let's just say DVC wanted to give members 10 free park tickets for every 100 points they lost. The constant rumblings I hear, is that would be costing DVC $500 each because they have to pay the parks division $500. My point is that is BS. DVC is a separate entity on paper, but at the end of the day, the profits earned by DVC and Parks all go to the same people, the shareholders. For every $1 DVC spends on park tickets, Parks earns $1 in revenue. 1 - 1 = 0. There is zero cost to the shareholders (besides some immaterial tax possibilities). The only cost to the shareholders is the same cost the Parks division would have if they were the ones giving it away.

The only argument I hear again against that is that managements bonuses are tied to financial performance if their own entities. Again, I call BS. That is their own internal negotiations and they can just as easily eliminate intercompany transactions from the calculations

Edit: just to be clear, I'm not suggesting they have to or even should offer things like free tickets. I'm just taking away this particular excuse off the tsble

You are certainly can feel that way, of course. But, again, we, whether we knew it or not, took on ownership in DVC without the ability to count on TWDC to help. You can call it BS as well, but it’s their company and they get to decide how to run it.

Just as easily, those division could hand out free park passes to fill their rooms too. DVC owners, at least in my opinion, are not any more important to Disney than cash guests.

Personally, I don’t agree people losing points, who traveled late in their UY or beyond banking window should be given something like that either, But, guess what, I am not the one deciding and if that happens, I would Accept it.

For me, I go into everything with an understanding of what I am and am not entitled to expect in any worst case scenario. After reading the POS, and Florida Timeshare Law, my reaction and expectations are based on what I know now, It’s no ones fault.

So, my expectations are that DVCM has to work within their own division to solve the problem in the best way they can.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

You are certainly can feel that way, of course. But, again, we, whether we knew it or not, took on ownership in DVC without the ability to count on TWDC to help. You can call it BS as well, but it’s their company and they get to decide how to run it.

Just as easily, those division could hand out free park passes to fill their rooms too. DVC owners, at least in my opinion, are not any more important to Disney than cash guests.

Personally, I don’t agree people losing points, who traveled late in their UY or beyond banking window should be given something like that either, But, guess what, I am not the one deciding and if that happens, I would Accept it.

For me, I go into everything with an understanding of what I am and am not entitled to expect in any worst case scenario. After reading the POS, and Florida Timeshare Law, my reaction and expectations are based on what I know now, It’s no ones fault.

So, my expectations are that DVCM has to work within their own division to solve the problem in the best way they can.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I don't think Disney has to compensate DVC members. We took on risk as part of our ownership. My only point is, hiding behind the excuse that Parks and Hotels and DVC are separate entities is just corporate garbage. If Disney doesn't want to compensate, they don't have to. Just don't hide behind this particular excuse.

Closing the parks and forcing people to cancel their vacations is not their fault. It was not caused by any malpractice, or even any poor decision making. It was forced upon them by government authorities during a world wide pandemic and I think most people will forgive them for that. They likely won't have to deal with any legal ramifications because of this, however any goodwill lost for not finding ways to utilize TDWC's resources without costing the overall company (not DVC on its own) too much to help these folks (which in reality is a really really small number of actual people) is on them. At the end of the day, DVC management is making the conscious decision not to help because of the constraints put forward by TWDC.

I'm not blaming DVC management. I'm putting the blame on TWDC management for creating a corporate environment of internal competition rather than synergistic thinking to the detriment of the paying customer. And you are correct. It is their company and they get to decide how to run it. But it's my money and I don't have to give it to them if I don't want to.