Disney Genie+ and ILL$ Details & FAQ - Launches 10/19 at WDW, Paid "FastPass" at WDW and Disneyland (date TBD)

[Yahweh]

I disagree respectfully, Disney has an endless supply of first time guests, new families are created every year, and those families are always potential first timers, Disney should not cater to the small minority of loyal guests. In my opinion these loyal guests have games their system to the point of needing to relaunching a lot of their systems. I think you can see this reflected in limits per purchase, and Disney genie, to name a few. I believe the loyal guests have taken over Disney’s system, and Disney is attempting to take it back. Now I don’t believe that’s the only reason they’re doing this, but I do believe it is partially why. If it wasn’t broken they wouldn’t have to fix it

Maybe

I would love know the % of first time guest versus repeat visitors. I always assumed repeat offenders like myself make a fairly sizeable percentage of guests in the park. I may have to do some research

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Maybe

I would love know the % of first time guest versus repeat visitors. I always assumed repeat offenders like myself make a fairly sizeable percentage of guests in the park. I may have to do some research

I would also say it depends what your definition of “repeat guest” is. To me going as a child and going as an adult would not constitute a repeat guest for the business, since a child isn’t the one coming up with the cash. That’s just financially for the company, obviously if you’ve gone more than once you’re def a repeat guest. Hope that makes sense haha

 

[BadPinkTink]

I would also say it depends what your definition of “repeat guest” is. To me going as a child and going as an adult would not constitute a repeat guest for the business, since a child isn’t the one coming up with the cash. That’s just financially for the company, obviously if you’ve gone more than once you’re def a repeat guest. Hope that makes sense haha

I agree, going as a child and then going as an adult is not a repeat guest, thats x 2 first time visitor, as both of them from a financial point of view are different. The child would be counted as part of the adults spending budget.

For Walt Disney Word there would be very high amount of first time visits, over the last 30 years its been marketed as the ultimate family vacation, a big blow out one and done which people save for 2 or more years to go to.

 

[Tyler's Dad]

A couple of things I have seen pointed out and my feelings on them.

1) Disney increasing value
- It seems people are pointing to a 5th gate as what Disney should have done here. I would say I am happier with what Disney did instead, which was invest in updating and enhancing their current parks. Disney has invested a ton of money at all 4 parks to increase the experience.

2) Return vs. New Guests
- I have seen 2 reports that show WDW and DL as polar opposites on this. One said 70% return visitors at DL and 70% new at WDW. The other one had the numbers at 80%.

 

[Boski]

Value is an opinion / perspective though - so not sure how you can be correct / incorrect here? There is a certain point where most would probably agree they are getting less value (Ticket prices increase to $500 per day overnight) or getting more value (ticket prices decrease to $50 per day overnight) - but we're definitely in more of a gray area here.

They can't, that was a troll attempt.

 

[jujubiee4]

I disagree respectfully, Disney has an endless supply of first time guests, new families are created every year, and those families are always potential first timers, Disney should not cater to the small minority of loyal guests. In my opinion these loyal guests have games their system to the point of needing to relaunching a lot of their systems. I think you can see this reflected in limits per purchase, and Disney genie, to name a few. I believe the loyal guests have taken over Disney’s system, and Disney is attempting to take it back. Now I don’t believe that’s the only reason they’re doing this, but I do believe it is partially why. If it wasn’t broken they wouldn’t have to fix it

This is interesting. We have about 16 people coming for December (well if they don't all cancel).
6 have never been. My Aunt and Uncle and brother and sister n law with 10 yr old twins. The rest
of us have been. The 6 elected to stay Deluxe. Aunt and Uncle even club level. My family is staying Deluxe
also but everyone could choose their own accommodations. My sister n law called me and said they don't
want to spend more than 5k and is that possible? I said with flights hotel food car it will be tight. She said
no everything else is paid for the 5 thousand is spending money for the week. Yikes! No way in ****
I would spend that. They are new guests though and want their kids to have a great time. I can't help
but think Disney loves these kind of guests. I still feel the average family that visits keeps them in
business. The new big spenders I can't see coming again or frequently.

By the way when genie news hit the other family members want to cancel. The 6 that have never been
are keeping their reservations. Uncle told me it is their first time and "whatever" about price increase.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

A couple of things I have seen pointed out and my feelings on them.

1) Disney increasing value
- It seems people are pointing to a 5th gate as what Disney should have done here. I would say I am happier with what Disney did instead, which was invest in updating and enhancing their current parks. Disney has invested a ton of money at all 4 parks to increase the experience.

2) Return vs. New Guests
- I have seen 2 reports that show WDW and DL as polar opposites on this. One said 70% return visitors at DL and 70% new at WDW. The other one had the numbers at 80%.

completely agree on your 1st point, your2nd point makes sense, Disneyland doesn’t seem like a destination. In my household we are planning a Hawaii trip for our 10 year anniversary, and Disneyland will be a stopover before heading to Hawaii, I would never consider a trip for DL by itself, there is so much more to do at WDW. Locals seem to make sense there, and I would imagine most theme parks like six flags for instance operate the same way as DL. That being said, DL seems to be trying to up the ante and entice guests to make it a destination, we will see what the future holds on that end

 

[JerryWS98]

I'm definitely not a fan of added costs. What kept me returning to Disney World as opposed to other theme parks in the Orlando area was the free fastpass option. Now that I'm going to have to pay for fastpass options, I'll definitely consider Universal Studios on my next trip.

 

[Liquidice]

A couple of things I have seen pointed out and my feelings on them.

1) Disney increasing value
- It seems people are pointing to a 5th gate as what Disney should have done here. I would say I am happier with what Disney did instead, which was invest in updating and enhancing their current parks. Disney has invested a ton of money at all 4 parks to increase the experience.

2) Return vs. New Guests
- I have seen 2 reports that show WDW and DL as polar opposites on this. One said 70% return visitors at DL and 70% new at WDW. The other one had the numbers at 80%.

So to point 1 - what have they done with the 4 parks they have to help with overcrowding though?

That is ultimately what seems to be part of the problem imho especially with regard to Fastpass. The parks were overcrowded, so the standby lines are too long - so Fastpass is introduced, but giving everyone 3 FPs doesn't solve the problem because everyone gets it - and the parks are getting even more crowded - therefore the solution is to charge people for Genie+ (I guess we'll have to see if everyone buys it or if Disney limits the # of Genie+ purchases or number of passes allowed to control demand better than FP+). I'm not saying the 5th Gate is the only solution to solve overcrowding, but was just using that as an example of one way Disney could help with overcrowding.

Galaxy's Edge and Toy Story land didn't do much to solve overcrowding, they didn't add a ton of high capacity attractions (like a theater show - Indiana Jones for example can hold 2000 people per show). Animal Kingdom is the one where I would agree because AK didn't have enough rides to begin with and Pandora helped with that, although they could have done more to help imho.

It is worse today due to the pandemic because a lot of shows are shut down.

Don't get me wrong, I like Galaxy's Edge, Toy Story Land and Pandora - but I think the lands don't do enough to help with crowds and what they ultimately do is increase crowds because more people want to come to Disney to see the new attractions and there aren't enough of those high capacity attractions to handle them.

Just saying if they did those things to handle the increased crowds - maybe, just maybe FP+ still works and for those saying G+ helps "fix" FP+ then they don't have to do that.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

So to point 1 - what have they done with the 4 parks they have to help with overcrowding though?

That is ultimately what seems to be part of the problem imho especially with regard to Fastpass. The parks were overcrowded, so the standby lines are too long - so Fastpass is introduced, but giving everyone 3 FPs doesn't solve the problem because everyone gets it - and the parks are getting even more crowded - therefore the solution is to charge people for Genie+ (I guess we'll have to see if everyone buys it or if Disney limits the # of Genie+ purchases or number of passes allowed to control demand better than FP+). I'm not saying the 5th Gate is the only solution to solve overcrowding, but was just using that as an example of one way Disney could help with overcrowding.

Galaxy's Edge and Toy Story land didn't do much to solve overcrowding, they didn't add a ton of high capacity attractions (like a theater show - Indiana Jones for example can hold 2000 people per show). Animal Kingdom is the one where I would agree because AK didn't have enough rides to begin with and Pandora helped with that, although they could have done more to help imho.

It is worse today due to the pandemic because a lot of shows are shut down.

Don't get me wrong, I like Galaxy's Edge, Toy Story Land and Pandora - but I think the lands don't do enough to help with crowds and what they ultimately do is increase crowds because more people want to come to Disney to see the new attractions and there aren't enough of those high capacity attractions to handle them.

Just saying if they did those things to handle the increased crowds - maybe, just maybe FP+ still works and for those saying G+ helps "fix" FP+ then they don't have to do that.

I think that adding any kind of “land” or a fifth gate would draw in even larger crowds. I don’t think Disney has an overcrowding problem per say, I believe it is more of a problem with crowds forming in certain areas. I’ve been to the park where frontier land might have 90 minute waits for everything in close proximity , but tomorrow land might be quiet in comparison, I think the idea behind genie is to locate where you are, and move you strategically to other areas of the park, hopefully spreading out the crowd evenly. From what I’ve read this strategy has worked for other parks that have implemented similar strategies.

 

[808blessing]

My new issues are with dining reservations. If I get a 7am notice that my top tier is available only during my non-cancelable lunch, I am missing out. I hope G gives us several time options.

 

[Tyler's Dad]

So to point 1 - what have they done with the 4 parks they have to help with overcrowding though?

That is ultimately what seems to be part of the problem imho especially with regard to Fastpass. The parks were overcrowded, so the standby lines are too long - so Fastpass is introduced, but giving everyone 3 FPs doesn't solve the problem because everyone gets it - and the parks are getting even more crowded - therefore the solution is to charge people for Genie+ (I guess we'll have to see if everyone buys it or if Disney limits the # of Genie+ purchases or number of passes allowed to control demand better than FP+). I'm not saying the 5th Gate is the only solution to solve overcrowding, but was just using that as an example of one way Disney could help with overcrowding.

Galaxy's Edge and Toy Story land didn't do much to solve overcrowding, they didn't add a ton of high capacity attractions (like a theater show - Indiana Jones for example can hold 2000 people per show). Animal Kingdom is the one where I would agree because AK didn't have enough rides to begin with and Pandora helped with that, although they could have done more to help imho.

It is worse today due to the pandemic because a lot of shows are shut down.

Don't get me wrong, I like Galaxy's Edge, Toy Story Land and Pandora - but I think the lands don't do enough to help with crowds and what they ultimately do is increase crowds because more people want to come to Disney to see the new attractions and there aren't enough of those high capacity attractions to handle them.

Just saying if they did those things to handle the increased crowds - maybe, just maybe FP+ still works and for those saying G+ helps "fix" FP+ then they don't have to do that.

I look at it as investing in bringing their current parks forward. Disney could have left the cars stunt show and very uninspired backlot your at Hollywood Studios, ignored the lack of rides at Animal Kingdom, kept the spine intact at Epcot, and not built Tron, Guardians, Remy, and Runaway Railway. With the money saved, a 5th gate would probably be possible. I just don’t think that’s better.

 

[Tyler's Dad]

My new issues are with dining reservations. If I get a 7am notice that my top tier is available only during my non-cancelable lunch, I am missing out. I hope G gives us several time options.

We had the reverse issue with FP+. If we decided to modify anything spur of the moment, then forget getting any of the headline attractions, since they were all booked up a month prior. Now we were stuck getting in a standby line that would probably not move.

I actually think by not giving people multiple times to choose from, it will be easier to avoid messing up your dining reservations. We will just monitor throughout the day and if looks like we will want to pay for the LL, we will grab the time that works for us when it’s available. If it’s a genie+ ride, we will just pick what we want to do next while we eat.

 

[Liquidice]

I think that adding any kind of “land” or a fifth gate would draw in even larger crowds. I don’t think Disney has an overcrowding problem per say, I believe it is more of a problem with crowds forming in certain areas. I’ve been to the park where frontier land might have 90 minute waits for everything in close proximity , but tomorrow land might be quiet in comparison, I think the idea behind genie is to locate where you are, and move you strategically to other areas of the park, hopefully spreading out the crowd evenly. From what I’ve read this strategy has worked for other parks that have implemented similar strategies.

It might at first, but if they built another gate that could handle lets say 60,000-75,000 additional guests (and lets say the target is for them to run at around 50% capacity average) - it should offer relief at the other parks.

If you look historically, Disney World added parks over time to handle crowds...
1971 - MK, 1982 - Epcot, 1989 - MGM Studios, 1998 - Animal Kingdom - so in the first ~30 years of existence, Disney added an additional gate every ~10 years on average but hasn't in the last 20 years.

However, I think your point is interesting with crowds forming - it will definitely be interesting to see if Genie helps with that and an overall positive if that is the effect.

 

[New Mouse]

Both star wars and pandora had an attraction cut from them. Star wars had most interactive stuff scrapped or completely modified (or upcharged).

Toy story land I believe but not as concrete was expected to have more.


The notion they are investing in the parks is just false...they are investing the vare minimum. Heck even seven dwarves which is a good ride could have been great if they kept original plans.

 

[Dis Dragon]

Eisner had vision and was concerned with his legacy, it made him swing at the big projects even though they came up short (sometimes). The company became conservative after he left, Iger basically refined what he built and found ways to monetize it better.

We're not going to see growth until Chapek leaves, so hold on to your seats.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

It might at first, but if they built another gate that could handle lets say 60,000-75,000 additional guests (and lets say the target is for them to run at around 50% capacity average) - it should offer relief at the other parks.

If you look historically, Disney World added parks over time to handle crowds...
1971 - MK, 1982 - Epcot, 1989 - MGM Studios, 1998 - Animal Kingdom - so in the first ~30 years of existence, Disney added an additional gate every ~10 years on average but hasn't in the last 20 years.

However, I think your point is interesting with crowds forming - it will definitely be interesting to see if Genie helps with that and an overall positive if that is the effect.

listen, I would love a 5th gate like everyone else, and there probably will be one at some point down the road. That being said,i don’t think Disney added parks for crowds, with the exception of AK, Epcot seems to be something they threw their arms up in the air about because it was something Walt constantly brought it up, so they had no other choice but to build a park to appease the masses, even though it was nothing Walt described. MGM at the time was Michael Eisner reacting to a perceived threat (Universal studios), AK is the only one I can see as a reaction to crowds, but I haven’t dug into it enough to say one way or another. I also think adding a fifth gate would cause larger crowds that would extend their trips even longer, so I can’t imagine another gate alleviating crowds, especially at MK where people tend to book multiple days in a week long trip, not to mention people already view Hollywood Studios and AK as half day parks putting more pressure on the other two. Expansion in individual parks seems to be the best course of action in my opinion,when pertaining to crowds

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Eisner had vision and was concerned with his legacy, it made him swing at the big projects even though they came up short (sometimes). The company became conservative after he left, Iger basically refined what he built and found ways to monetize it better.

We're not going to see growth until Chapek leaves, so hold on to your seats.

I agree to a certain point about legacy, every CEO at every company is worried about that to an extent. I wouldn’t say Eisner was always one to go after big projects especially on the film side, but he did invest a lot into the parks for sure. Eisner expanded so fast in fact, that Iger and now Chapek are still working to smooth things out, Disneyland Paris comes to mind, as well as not having a clear vision for Hollywood Studios, and still working to fix that to this day. I think Iger and Eisner were both visionaries, Eisner more for domination of every market Disney decided to dip their toe into, and Iger for expanding upon every facet Disney owned through purchases of Fox, Disney plus ect… the jury is still out on Chapek for me right now, way way way to early to pass judgement

 

[Liquidice]

listen, I would love a 5th gate like everyone else, and there probably will be one at some point down the road. That being said,i don’t think Disney added parks for crowds, with the exception of AK, Epcot seems to be something they threw their arms up in the air about because it was something Walt constantly brought it up, so they had no other choice but to build a park to appease the masses, even though it was nothing Walt described. MGM at the time was Michael Eisner reacting to a perceived threat (Universal studios), AK is the only one I can see as a reaction to crowds, but I haven’t dug into it enough to say one way or another. I also think adding a fifth gate would cause larger crowds that would extend their trips even longer, so I can’t imagine another gate alleviating crowds, especially at MK where people tend to book multiple days in a week long trip, not to mention people already view Hollywood Studios and AK as half day parks putting more pressure on the other two. Expansion in individual parks seems to be the best course of action in my opinion,when pertaining to crowds

While the primary purpose of adding parks may not have been to absorb crowds, it certainly allowed Disney to accept more people into the parks.

I am no expert in crowd control or ways to handle overcrowding, but I do think there are better ways to handle it than has been done recently at WDW, maybe the better answer is expansion in the existing parks, but the additions of Toy Story Land and Galaxy's Edge did not really provide attractions to deal with a lot of additional people - leading to problems with FP+ which translated into really long standby lines because they needed the FP+ line to keep moving - and now the change to Genie+ which is at least partially being introduced to help solve the issues with FP+.

If you believe the parks are currently overcrowded (the thought just that the parks on average are crowded all year long instead of only during peak season), my opinion is just that if Disney were able to better handle the crowds they wouldn't necessarily have to replace and charge for FP+ they could have kept it the way it was. The solution they chose was to charge customers to solve their problem instead - which imho feels like what might be a good business decision, but not a good decision for customers, and while I know Disney is a business - I thought first and foremost customer satisfaction was their priority - and it seems like that is shifting over the last year with perks going away and towards profitability even if guest satisfaction is sacrified.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

This is interesting. We have about 16 people coming for December (well if they don't all cancel).
6 have never been. My Aunt and Uncle and brother and sister n law with 10 yr old twins. The rest
of us have been. The 6 elected to stay Deluxe. Aunt and Uncle even club level. My family is staying Deluxe
also but everyone could choose their own accommodations. My sister n law called me and said they don't
want to spend more than 5k and is that possible? I said with flights hotel food car it will be tight. She said
no everything else is paid for the 5 thousand is spending money for the week. Yikes! No way in ****
I would spend that. They are new guests though and want their kids to have a great time. I can't help
but think Disney loves these kind of guests. I still feel the average family that visits keeps them in
business. The new big spenders I can't see coming again or frequently.

By the way when genie news hit the other family members want to cancel. The 6 that have never been
are keeping their reservations. Uncle told me it is their first time and "whatever" about price increase.

i here you on the average guests keeping them going, but adding different levels of spending based on income makes total sense, there is still room for people to get a “baseline” experience if that’s what they can afford, while also offering a higher end option for guests who can afford a little more, think of it as a baseline car “bare bones”, vs that same car with a luxury package, the car manufacture offers different levels of trims based on what people can afford, they don’t offer their luxury cars at a baseline model price. That is how I view Disney’s new additions