My observations after being away for 5 years

We just got back from a December trip. We use scooters. There was three of us on scooters. I have to say I found less people intruding on the scooters. Not too many darted out suddenly at us.

I found the senior population being down in count in the parks. I would say this could be down by 50% from 5 years ago. I wonder if Disney technology with fastpass plus, magic bands, and My Disney Experience is keeping the seniors away? We are seniors ourselves; so, this was noticeable to me.

I felt there were way more strollers than I remember. So, obviously younger families are increasing at the parks.

Also, I found more people polite. And believe it or not, less children crying.

It seems many strangers were willing to engage in conversation. I wasn't looking to do this, but it happened quite often with the buses and the restaurants.

So, how does everyone else feel?

We were there the first week of December. I'm not sure if there were fewer seniors. But I did notice lots of strollers and lots of tiny babies. I mean like less than 3 months old. I figure there were so many strollers because people with children not in school know that this is a time they can go and see the Christmas stuff without taking children out of school.

But I did see many, many grandparents with children in their laps on a scooter - like at least 20. It was rampant. I also saw 3-4 10-12 year olds driving scooters with no adult nearby. But I think some of them drove better than some seniors i've seen. I'm a senior too. I saw one woman on a regular sized scooter who was probably borderline about needed a heavier duty scooter - but then she had a very large child (probably 90+ pounds) on her lap. Not good.

I also saw someone who had bungee corded a rollator to the back of a scooter and was giving another adult a "ride". Then I saw a woman carrying a child in a Radio Flyer red wagon. The child was very young - maybe 2 or 3 and had casts on his legs. But that was so dangerous for the child. One good bump and he'd have been dumped out on the concrete. He was not able to sit up.

I felt like Disney was not enforcing any rules.

arminnie said:

Then I saw a woman carrying a child in a Radio Flyer red wagon. The child was very young - maybe 2 or 3 and had casts on his legs.

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Makes you wonder how he got the casts in the first place...

Euby said:

Makes you wonder how he got the casts in the first place...

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Purely speculation but a child that age, in bilateral casts, preventing sitting sounds like spica casting to treat a genetic orthopedic condition. Granted the wagon wasn't the best choice here, but there are essentially zero good transport options in this scenario.

Euby said:

Makes you wonder how he got the casts in the first place...

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Probably to treat a congenital medical condition and not an injury.

We did see a child on a scooter ourselves with an adult. I was surprised to see it.

I do believe there has to be a better way to take a child with leg casts. There are wheelchairs that extend like a recliner/bed. Not saying it would be easy to push or manuever a special wheelchair. Also, there may be special strollers, too to accommodate this situation.

I just wondered what they did when he wasn't in the wagon. I'm almost sure that a wagon wouldn't be allowed inside anywhere at Disney.

Bete said:

We did see a child on a scooter ourselves with an adult. I was surprised to see it.

I do believe there has to be a better way to take a child with leg casts. There are wheelchairs that extend like a recliner/bed. Not saying it would be easy to push or maneuver a special wheelchair. Also, there may be special strollers, too to accommodate this situation.

I just wondered what they did when he wasn't in the wagon. I'm almost sure that a wagon wouldn't be allowed inside anywhere at Disney.

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The hips might be fixed in this situation. Most Pediatric wheelchairs and adaptive strollers wouldn't accommodate the angle. Unless its a custom stroller. In a smaller child I've personally used the back bed of a Tandem Graco, but length was close. It's not an easy time when kids are casted in this manner. I agree that the wagon was not appropriate for the setting.

Bete said:

We just got back from a December trip. We use scooters. There was three of us on scooters. I have to say I found less people intruding on the scooters. Not too many darted out suddenly at us.

I found the senior population being down in count in the parks. I would say this could be down by 50% from 5 years ago. I wonder if Disney technology with fastpass plus, magic bands, and My Disney Experience is keeping the seniors away? We are seniors ourselves; so, this was noticeable to me.

I felt there were way more strollers than I remember. So, obviously younger families are increasing at the parks.

Also, I found more people polite. And believe it or not, less children crying.

It seems many strangers were willing to engage in conversation. I wasn't looking to do this, but it happened quite often with the buses and the restaurants.

So, how does everyone else feel?

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I agree completely with all your observations. I especially understand your comment about all the FP+. Magic Bands, MDE App stuff scaring seniors away. My Mom doesn't have a computer or a smart phone. She used to love WDW, now she doesn't understand all the ins and outs. I just started needing a scooter a couple years ago, so I have no previous experience, but I found everyone VERY polite and helpful. However, I had plenty of people darting out in front of me. I blame the **** cell phones and the MDE App mostly.

I hope you are right. And I hope I have the same experience.

I was there the last week in September. And I can say I had numerous people dart in front of me, kids and adults.

Like you I saw so many adults on a scooter, with a child riding along. I don't want to even think about what would happen to that child if the scooter stopped suddenly.

Euby said:

Makes you wonder how he got the casts in the first place...

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DO NOT GO THERE.

Our daughter was born with multiple bilateral birth defects from the waist down, and was in casts on both legs from birth until her 3rd birthday. She did not have her first "real" tub bath until her first birthday.

YOU DON'T KNOW SO DON'T ASSUME.

As the parent of a child like that, for 3 years I had people threaten to call DHS, the police, the sheriff on a regular basis when we went out in public. I reached the point where I handed them one of our Shriner sponsor's business cards, and told them to call him to ask about the fine work that the Shriner's Hospitals for Children do.

SO DON'T ASSUME. EVER. EVER. EVER.

mamabunny said:

DO NOT GO THERE.

Our daughter was born with multiple bilateral birth defects from the waist down, and was in casts on both legs from birth until her 3rd birthday. She did not have her first "real" tub bath until her first birthday.

YOU DON'T KNOW SO DON'T ASSUME.

As the parent of a child like that, for 3 years I had people threaten to call DHS, the police, the sheriff on a regular basis when we went out in public. I reached the point where I handed them one of our Shriner sponsor's business cards, and told them to call him to ask about the fine work that the Shriner's Hospitals for Children do.

SO DON'T ASSUME. EVER. EVER. EVER.

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Oh my.

WonderlandisReality said:

Purely speculation but a child that age, in bilateral casts, preventing sitting sounds like spica casting to treat a genetic orthopedic condition. Granted the wagon wasn't the best choice here, but there are essentially zero good transport options in this scenario.

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I think I prefer this answer to yours. I'd ask the question of, "Why the casts?" myself, but obviously an answer containing an answer is a lot more informative than a very emotional reaction. But I can see your emotional side of it too, just maybe going off on a single question isn't going to win advocacy.

People's misplaced assumptions speaks volumes of how little that most people actually understand domestic violence and abuse I am happy that your family was able to get the healthcare that your DD needed because if you didn't invest so much into her, her future would be a different world. You clearly value and love her very much so I don't understand why there would be misconception. Alas... the world is full of stupid people... right?

mamabunny said:

DO NOT GO THERE.

Our daughter was born with multiple bilateral birth defects from the waist down, and was in casts on both legs from birth until her 3rd birthday. She did not have her first "real" tub bath until her first birthday.

YOU DON'T KNOW SO DON'T ASSUME.

As the parent of a child like that, for 3 years I had people threaten to call DHS, the police, the sheriff on a regular basis when we went out in public. I reached the point where I handed them one of our Shriner sponsor's business cards, and told them to call him to ask about the fine work that the Shriner's Hospitals for Children do.

SO DON'T ASSUME. EVER. EVER. EVER.

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My apologies MamaBunny! I wasn't thinking outside of my own limited experiences. My comment wasn't well thought out. I hope that you know from my other posts on this forum, that I try to be informed and not judge.

I completely understand where you are coming from with DHS. My niece was adopted from China at 6 months. During an exam for problems with eyesight (eventually having a retina removed), it was found that she had blood on her brain, which is an indicator for "shaken baby". The medical staff reported it to DHS (which they are supposed to) and her parents were investigated. This was a very stressful time for our family. Everyone second guessing what they may have done or how it could have happened. It was later determined that she suffered this while still in China. She is now in her 20s and while blind in one eye, is my Disney buddy. When she had the choice of what to do for her 21st birthday, she said I want to go to Disney World.

@marcyleecorgan: While I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your remarks, it will not be until you have walked a mile (or three years) in my shoes that you will ever be able to fully understand why I feel as I do.

We had multiple pregnancy losses before our daughter was born. When she was born, and was taken away to the NICU, they refused to bring her back to me until I spoke with a doctor - who was there with adoption papers. He kindly told me that "it" could be given up for adoption right now, and placed into state custody and we could try to have another baby that did not have "it's" problems. It was not until I grabbed his tie, jerked him down to where we were face-to-face and I screamed at him that he would bring me my baby now, and never show his face or those papers to me again that he got the message that I. wanted. my. baby. I am told that I also informed him that SHE is a girl, and what her name was, and a bunch of other stuff. I was so mad I was literally seeing red.

We didn't care about her feet, or her legs, or if she would ever walk. We didn't care about other than she was our child, our baby, and we were going to take her home, and love her forever.

She had her first casts before she was a week old. She has endured more, with more grace and dignity than any adult I have ever known. She has never lived a day of her life without pain, without inconvenience. She is bright, and funny, and beautiful, and has a seemingly endless capacity for love. And every day I thank God that I was chosen to be her mother because she is such an exceptional human.

So yeah. It's a little emotional for me. And if that is the "worst" thing I ever write on these pages, I'm fine with that.

@Euby

I know - I *know* you are a kind and thoughtful and wonderful person. And I'm sorry I blew up. By now, you have figured out that is kind of a hot button issue for me...

We had to - for three long years - listen to snarky remarks, and endure the stares, the whispers, and the outright hostility while standing in line at the grocery store, or "playing" in the park (which was mostly us sitting on a blanket in the grass LOL), or even waiting at the doctor's office in the reception area - from other parents, grandparents, and concerned adults.

And here's the thing - we appreciated that they were concerned. We really did. But the horrifying part was those people all passed judgement without once coming over to even ask *why* the baby was in plaster to her hips on both legs. And those who did approach us unfailingly did so from the standpoint that we were guilty before they even asked. They were inevitably rude, hostile and openly contemptuous of us as parents. On more than one occasion, well-meaning citizens would follow us to the parking lot and copy down our license plate number. Thankfully, that mostly stopped when we put a bright red bumper sticker on the rear of the van that said "My child is a patient at the Shriner's Hospital!" and a second bumper sticker that had the Shriner's "Walking Tall" logo and the nationwide toll-free number for the Hospitals on it.

It did not help our situation that literally, just days after she was put into those first casts, a local child who was in a full body cast (from previous child abuse) died in a horrifying fashion because the mother's boyfriend got tired of hearing the child cry. We weren't the only local family that was harassed by well-meaning individuals during this time; we knew a couple of other families (from our participation in the Shriner's Hospital program) who went through very similar accusations and encounters.

My whole point to everyone is this: Never assume anything. All of us here know about "invisible disabilities", right? It's not a surprise to anyone here that those exist, and that they are accommodated. Just don't assume why a child (or an elderly person, or anyone) is visibly undergoing treatment.

And now, back to the original topic, please.

Bete said:

I found the senior population being down in count in the parks. I would say this could be down by 50% from 5 years ago. I wonder if Disney technology with fastpass plus, magic bands, and My Disney Experience is keeping the seniors away? We are seniors ourselves; so, this was noticeable to me.

I felt there were way more strollers than I remember. So, obviously younger families are increasing at the parks.
Also, I found more people polite. And believe it or not, less children crying.
So, how does everyone else feel?

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We just got back from Disney (yes, we are seniors) but dh & I commented on how many senior couples we saw - so definitely seems more in attendance, not less, to us! We go fairly often.

Also, lots of babies crying with no efforts by parents to shush them at all. And, no, they couldn't have all been sick babies. I know there are various reasons, but after having three, I've learned to discern what some cries mean. Lots of them were, 'I want my way, and I want it now'! Could also tell by the situations.

Bete said:

We did see a child on a scooter ourselves with an adult. I was surprised to see it.

I just wondered what they did when he wasn't in the wagon. I'm almost sure that a wagon wouldn't be allowed inside anywhere at Disney.

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We saw several babies/children on scooters with adults - some even letting them 'drive'!! It was a very crowded time also - no more slow time first of Dec!

Also saw two children in a wagon in MK. Don't know how they got through all the security - can't hide a wagon!!
You're right - supposedly they aren't allowed!

Guess some of my most frustrating feelings with Disney - they don't enforce their rules. Why make them?

I find it interesting that one week has one result and another week has a completely opposite one.

It does seem with the new rides coming that Disney is gearing up towards younger families.

North of Mouse said:

Also saw two children in a wagon in MK. Don't know how they got through all the security - can't hide a wagon!!
You're right - supposedly they aren't allowed!

Guess some of my most frustrating feelings with Disney - they don't enforce their rules. Why make them?

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Just got back too and I saw I
Think 3 wagon all three where brown and they were pushing them not pulling them but they were definitely big I think or hope Disney will ban them soon.

I think these days there are a such thing as stroller/wagons. Especially if they are push vehicles I think it might be hard to differentiate between a wagon and a stroller.

charmed59 said:

I think these days there are a such thing as stroller/wagons. Especially if they are push vehicles I think it might be hard to differentiate between a wagon and a stroller.

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The wagon that I saw was a plain old red Radio Flyer wagon - the sides were quite shallow, and it had to be pulled.. There was no padding in the wagon. The child was obviously disabled - but it just did not seem like a safe and secure way to transport the child. The child could have been transported in a pram which would be much more comfortable than a hard metal wagon and safer. Maybe the parent could not afford anything other than the wagon - but I felt sorry for the child. The ride could not have been comfortable at all.

charmed59 said:

I think these days there are a such thing as stroller/wagons. Especially if they are push vehicles I think it might be hard to differentiate between a wagon and a stroller.

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No, not a 'push' wagon at all - had a handle and the only way to maneuver it was to pull it. No way for security/CM's not to recognize it for what it was!