Support Animals being banned on Delta

beaprn

Mouseketeer
Joined
May 23, 2001
Support animals without proper documentation will not be allowed in the passenger cabin after several incidents! Let’s hope other airlines, theme parks etc sit up and take notice about this widespread abuse of people going around the rules. It is really getting out of hand, I have personally witness a couple of incidents of “support animals” getting up in service animals faces growling, the service animals ignored them. But this is a bad accident waiting to happen!
 
Support animals without proper documentation will not be allowed in the passenger cabin after several incidents! Let’s hope other airlines, theme parks etc sit up and take notice about this widespread abuse of people going around the rules. It is really getting out of hand, I have personally witness a couple of incidents of “support animals” getting up in service animals faces growling, the service animals ignored them. But this is a bad accident waiting to happen!

I saw a lady with a "service" Yorkie on the train between terminals. It pooped in the train, and she had nothing at all to clean it up. I gave her my baby wipes and a plastic bag. Sheesh.

I think this was inevitable. The rule breakers ruined it.
 
I posted it here because of the ever growing presence of “support/comfort animals” in the parks. The service animals are protected by straightforward rules, regulations and documentation, comfort animals are not. Comfort/support animals are the ones causing the problems because they have not been trained in anyway and a “ permit” for them can be obtained on the Internet for a fee.
 


I posted it here because of the ever growing presence of “support/comfort animals” in the parks. The service animals are protected by straightforward rules, regulations and documentation, comfort animals are not. Comfort/support animals are the ones causing the problems because they have not been trained in anyway and a “ permit” for them can be obtained on the Internet for a fee.

There’s nothing stopping people from saying it’s a service animal, even if it’s a support animal, or even a pet.
 
I posted it here because of the ever growing presence of “support/comfort animals” in the parks. The service animals are protected by straightforward rules, regulations and documentation, comfort animals are not. Comfort/support animals are the ones causing the problems because they have not been trained in anyway and a “ permit” for them can be obtained on the Internet for a fee.

Feel like you are posting this here to just stir the pot.
 
Already a thread here, and the way you’ve put it isn’t exactly right.

http://news.delta.com/delta-introdu...raveling-service-or-support-animals-effective


“In addition to the current requirement of a letter prepared and signed by a doctor or licensed mental health professional, those with psychiatric service animals and emotional support animals will also need to provide a signed document confirming that their animal can behave ”

There is already a requirement for the animals, and the ONLY extra thing being asked for is a document saying the animal can behave. Ooh, stringent.


bea, there is no such thing as a permit or license for a true service dog or an esa. You can have a seeing eye dog that cost a ton to raise and train and they can be as official looking as can be, but there’s no national license or permit.

And the doofiest little yippy lap dog being carried in a baby bjorn is very likely to be just as true a service dog as the shepherd or lab with the service eye dog vest. The yippy dog could be sensing blood sugar changes or an oncoming seizure, and be trained to alert the owner so they can save their own lives or get to a safe space.

There is truly NO reason to judge if a service dog is actually so when the dog is with its owner. (If they are never with their owner, judge away; I have)

I don’t think the parks actually allow ESAs. Fwiw.
 


Misleading thread title aside, I really wish that states would set up license systems for these animals. Between the ADA, the Air Transport Act, and the confusion between service animals and comfort animals, it's nearly impossible for businesses to treat the rights of all parties with any kind of equity. It's also a huge liability issue. (Apparently the case that caused Delta to tighten requirements was a situation where a man was seated in a middle seat holding a large dog on his lap; apparently one that was upward of 40 lbs. The passenger assigned the window seat was attempting to take his seat and the dog attacked and bit him in the face. The fault of that is both the dog owner's and Delta's -- you should have to declare the animal at the time you get your seat assignment, and untrained animals and their owners should be boarded last, so that the animals are not threatened by people entering "their" space.

If there was a license system set up, it would be very simple for businesses to simply require showing the tag to insure that the animal has been properly vaccinated and trained to behave in the places it is being taken. License types could be tiered for different levels of training. (Yes, this would require amending the laws in order to allow the certification process, but I think that anyone with a genuine disability will not have difficulty getting the proper documentation to get it done. I also think it's reasonable to require most passengers on common carriers to have to pay a security deposit for animals that are not trained service animals, in case they cause damage to people or property.)

PS: I also understand that requiring a tag could lead to people selling tags, but people sell disabled parking permits as well. People will cheat any system, but the hope is to reduce the number of people who do it because they are cheap and easily can get away with it. I still say that having to procure a tag is not an unduly harsh burden if you are going to be taking an animal into an enclosed vehicle from which it's impossible to quickly eject it ahould it go berserk.)
 
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Misleading thread title aside, I really wish that states would set up license systems for these animals.

If there was a license system set up, it would be very simple for businesses to simply require showing the tag to insure that the animal has been properly vaccinated and trained to behave in the places it is being taken. License types could be tiered for different levels of training. (Yes, this would require amending the laws in order to allow the certification process, but I think that anyone with a genuine disability will not have difficulty getting the proper documentation to get it done. I also think it's reasonable to require most passengers on common carriers to have to pay a security deposit for animals that are not trained service animals, in case they cause damage to people or property.)
The problem with this, of course, it that it's all illegal -- and has been since ADA was passed in 1990...28 years ago.

You simply can't force disabled people to jump through hoops -- it's against the law.
 
It's sad people are abusing the system so people who really need service animals have to work harder to prove their animals are legitimate. Saw on Inside Edition how easy it is to get "documentation". A producer or someone got the "documentation" to show how easy it was and flew with a pig.

A legitimate animal is one thing, but I hate seeing people who have their "service animal" with them in the grocery store. I'm talking the ones without the vest or ID sorry for in the cart, etc. Of course the stores can't do anything but it's gross. Glad airlines are clamping down on this.

Agree this title is bad..,
 
Saw on Inside Edition how easy it is to get "documentation". A producer or someone got the "documentation" to show how easy it was and flew with a pig.

Pigs can’t be service animals. So that would have been about emotional support animals.


I hate seeing people who have their "service animal" with them in the grocery store. I'm talking the ones without the vest or ID sorry for in the cart, etc.

There is *no such thing* as an official universal vest, no requirement to wear one, and no ID for service animals. To expect this is an exercise in futility.

There is also no reason a bonafide service dog wouldn’t be in a cart (or stroller or chest carrier etc).

You are very likely seeing dogs who can literally save their owner’s life by sensing and alerting to blood sugar swings or an oncoming seizure. Those dogs need to be close to their owner to do that. And they are sometimes small and will get exhausted if they have to walk with their owner all day long.
 
Pigs can’t be service animals. So that would have been about emotional support animals.




There is *no such thing* as an official universal vest, no requirement to wear one, and no ID for service animals. To expect this is an exercise in futility.

There is also no reason a bonafide service dog wouldn’t be in a cart (or stroller or chest carrier etc).

You are very likely seeing dogs who can literally save their owner’s life by sensing and alerting to blood sugar swings or an oncoming seizure. Those dogs need to be close to their owner to do that. And they are sometimes small and will get exhausted if they have to walk with their owner all day long.

Excuse me for making a mistake calling an emotional support pig a service animal. I believe most people know what I meant- it was easy for this person to get papers to fly with a unique emotional support animal that really wasn't one.

I do understand that there are small service dogs that assist with medical issues (seizures, etc) BUT not every animal in the stores these days is a service animal and I think that is purpose of this. Nobody is going to question anybody who takes a pet into the store about their papers. Some people are taking advantage of this - maybe in the cases I saw I made a mistake in judgement but we all know people are abusing the system - even at Disney.

Since I'm not an expert on service animals I didn't realize it was a stupid suggestion saying maybe they should wear a vest or identifying tag/collar/ribbon etc.
 
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If we're going to discuss animals used by people for various purposes, it's pretty critical to understand the terminology. It's also important to understand what is real, and what is not real.

"Service animal" and "support animal" are not interchangeable terms. They are very different terms for a reason, and the differences are not trivial. Owners of the two types of animals have certain rights under various laws. In some instances, their rights are identical, but in most cases there is a good bit of difference -- so it makes all the difference in the world whether an animal is a "service animal" or a "support animal."

What's real, and what's not real? "Papers, ID, vests, tags" and all that other junk DO NOT EXIST in the law. There is no such thing -- specifically because the law says that asking for any kind of "proof" of an animal's status is discrimination, and an infringement on the legal protections afforded to disabled persons.

This is also the DIS Transportation board, and whether or not someone takes an animal of some description into a grocery store has nothing to do with transportation.
 
I started off saying a story is seen on how easy it was to get papers to fly which is transportation as far as I know.

I made a mistake like real people do and interchanged words which are non-interchangable as I've been told twice. I'm not perfect and I'm the first to admit that.

Also I didn't know there was no need for a vest, etc. But I was kindly informed twice. Now I know.

BUT geez I make a random comment about dogs in the grocery store and am to that has nothing to do with transportation - series you are going to tear my post apart that much.

I will be my imperfect self and continue to post stupid stuff rather than claim to be perfect and know everything.

Whole point of my post people abuse the system getting papers online and fly with pigs, turkeys, miniature pony, etc which are emotional support animals not service animals
 
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The problem with this, of course, it that it's all illegal -- and has been since ADA was passed in 1990...28 years ago.

You simply can't force disabled people to jump through hoops -- it's against the law.

I know it's against the law, and I said so, but laws can be changed, and at this point, they should be. It is time to amend the ACAA and ADA rules about animals for safety reasons.

I am not in favor of the disabled being forced to supply proof of disability; that should stay as is; there is no need to stigmatize PEOPLE in these situations, as people are not likely to bite and usually don't have claws or sharp beaks. Animals, however, are another story, and when it has become obvious that the safety of other passengers (including that of other disabled people, and other service or support animals, I might add) is being compromised, then an amendment to the ACAA/ADA is in order to address this.

If you wish to bring an animal into the cabin of an aircraft, you should have to provide some proof that the animal in question will not pose a danger to other passengers. That would include some certification of vaccinations and a minimum level of training if you are asking for the animal to travel unrestrained.. Otherwise, your Emotional Support Animal should need to be muzzled or stay in a latched container. It is NOT an unreasonable accommodation for passenger safety aboard an aircraft. Disabled persons who have trained SERVICE animals all have documentation for those animals. There are no hoops to jump through in that case. I really don't see how a Supoort Animal should be any different. In most places, if you own a pet you have to register it for a vaccination tag; how is it that much more onerous to also register (with documentation) that it has been trained if you wish to customarily bring it aboard an aircraft?

Most of us pay a tag charge to record our animals' vaccinations. I'm fine with the idea of having physicians sign a state form for recording emotional support status, and having that form give you a waiver of the fee. We do it for disabled parking permits, and that is not considered to be an unreasonable exercise in hoop-jumping.

There have been instances in public transit where trained Service Animals have been attacked by untrained "Support Animals". Surely you can see that this is a situation that those who drafted the law did not foresee, and that it needs to be amended for public safety reasons.

CORRECTION: I'll admit it, I messed up in the paragraph above; by getting my S words confused when trying to type in a hurry. Trained support animals don't generate documentation. What I meant to say was "trained SERVICE animals"; they do have documentation of their training, because there is always a whole lot of paperwork involved in acquiring one. They are scarce and are very expensive to train; so unless you have money to burn and are willing to pay privately for sourcing a suitable animal and having it trained, you are not going to get one unless you go through the hoops of proving that you need one. The human partners of such animals are also required to go through training. (Paws with a Cause estimates the cost of each service dog at $30K)

Let me be clear here: I KNOW WHAT THE LAW PRESENTLY IS with regard to asking for training documentation of service and/or support animals. What I am saying is that due to the proliferation of completely untrained animals being self-identified as service and/or support animals, I strongly believe that for the safety of other passengers, THE LAW NEEDS TO BE CHANGED when it is a matter of such animals being taken on board public transportation vehicles.
 
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Those dogs need to be close to their owner to do that. And they are sometimes small and will get exhausted if they have to walk with their owner all day long.

It really doesn't matter to me whether a dog is too tired to walk. They don't belong in grocery carts where food is going. The owner should carry the dog in a carrier if it needs to be close to them, otherwise it should be on the floor.
 
First of all, I'm sure we all know that people will abuse and circumvent ANY system if they perceive even the slightest benefit in doing so.

In fact, there is a large population of people who will bend the rules just for the fun of beating the system. A blind person suffers as a result? Too bad, so sad. That's the me-first-last-and-only mentality we've descended into.
Disabled persons who have trained support animals all have documentation for those animals.
This is simply NOT TRUE. There is no such documentation. It does not exist. And if there was any such documentation, it would be illegal to ask for it.

There are two very specific questions a business is allowed to ask, nothing more.
  • Is this a service animal required because of a disability? (illegal to ask what disability)
  • What services is the animal trained to provide?

Unfortunately, whenever this subject comes up, there is so much misinformation out there that it's difficult to carry on a sensible discussion.

(I won't even mention the fact that miniature ponies happen to be the ONLY OTHER species besides dogs which can be legitimate service animals, lol.)
 
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It really doesn't matter to me whether a dog is too tired to walk. They don't belong in grocery carts where food is going. The owner should carry the dog in a carrier if it needs to be close to them, otherwise it should be on the floor.
I agree, and I think this is one of those examples of where someone is abusing the system for their own convenience.
 

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