Beware of DVC rental scammers

[CraigInPA]

Not to belabor the point, but you should have realized there was an issue when you did not get a reservation number. Unless the rental is for < 30 days before you're coming, it's no problem for a person renting DVC points to put in a reservation, obtain a reservation number, and send it to you. Once you have the reservation number, you can put it into MDE and verify that it is real before sending funds.

 

[iheartglaciers]

Not to belabor the point, but you should have realized there was an issue when you did not get a reservation number. Unless the rental is for < 30 days before you're coming, it's no problem for a person renting DVC points to put in a reservation, obtain a reservation number, and send it to you. Once you have the reservation number, you can put it into MDE and verify that it is real before sending funds.

I've wondered about this, what if the owner has to borrow points to make the reservation? If the renter changed their mind, the points would be stuck in that UY.

 

[supersnoop]

I've wondered about this, what if the owner has to borrow points to make the reservation? If the renter changed their mind, the points would be stuck in that UY.

That’s why most owners require full payment and no refunds. In the least, I’d expect a non-refundable deposit to cover the borrowed points.

 

[robinb]

I've wondered about this, what if the owner has to borrow points to make the reservation? If the renter changed their mind, the points would be stuck in that UY.

I have had to borrow points to book a renter's reservation and I require a deposit to do so. Unfortunately, I broke my own rule on one of my last rentals. I had a renter who booked a weekend for food and wine asked for an additional day at the start of her reservation. I told her that I would waitlist her. The waitlist came through and DVC borrowed points to pay for it. I emailed the renter with the good news and she told me that she had already booked a non-refundable night elsewhere. I was stuck holding the bag with borrowed points. Since it was just one day, I was able to finagle the points into an existing reservation and free up 2017 points that I can now bank forward.

OP, I am sorry this happened to you. I hope that you get in contact with the DVC member soon and that it's all a misunderstanding.

 

[cvjw]

Op. Use a broker if you decide to rent points again. If you use a broker, you have another line of protection if the owner were to cancel your reservation. Sorry this happened to you.

 

[spiceycat]

so sorry this happened to you. don't know what to say. hope someone finds them for you.

 

[wishicouldgomoreofte]

I hope you are able to find out, and get your money back. I don't think we have had one of those on here for 11 years or so.

 

[CapJames]

Thank you for your kind support. Yes, looking back now, there were certainly red flags waving but I was ignorant of them at the time and too trusting. It always could be worse. Live and learn.

 

[ThistleMae]

Beyond the small claims suggestion, stealing money is a crime. If you found out where this person lives, you could report it to the police.

 

[Dean]

Beyond the small claims suggestion, stealing money is a crime. If you found out where this person lives, you could report it to the police.

You could report it but the chances of anything happening or getting any money back this route is almost zero. About the only time it's reasonable is where it's feasible to go in person to small claims court.

 

[CarolMN]

OP's experience is a good reminder that prospective renters should do their due diligence before sending money off to pay for a rental. While it's rare to have a problem when the transaction is initiated though the DIS DVC Rent/Trade Board, the few that I am aware of could have been prevented if the renter had taken some precautions before proceeding with the rental.

If you are considering using the DIS DVC Rent/Trade Board, PLEASE READ THE PINNED THREAD NEAR THE TOP OF THE R/T FORUM before you post!

ALL NEW THREADS MUST BE APPROVED!! - **How to use this Board** - PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

The first post in that thread (under the Word to the Wise section) contains important information regarding due diligence as well as links to other helpful threads on the subject.

It's unfortunate that very few users of the R/T Board actually read that thread before posting. We mods know this because we have to decline a large proportion of the threads submitted because the rules were not followed.

 

[robinb]

OP's experience is a good reminder that prospective renters should do their due diligence before sending money off to pay for a rental. While it's rare to have a problem when the transaction is initiated though the DIS DVC Rent/Trade Board, the few that I am aware of could have been prevented if the renter had taken some precautions before proceeding with the rental.

If you are considering using the DIS DVC Rent/Trade Board, PLEASE READ THE PINNED THREAD NEAR THE TOP OF THE R/T FORUM before you post!

ALL NEW THREADS MUST BE APPROVED!! - **How to use this Board** - PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

The first post in that thread (under the Word to the Wise section) contains important information regarding due diligence as well as links to other helpful threads on the subject.

It's unfortunate that very few users of the R/T Board actually read that thread before posting. We mods know this because we have to decline a large proportion of the threads submitted because the rules were not followed.

While that's a good reminder, I'm not sure what MORE the OP could have done. It appears that he did his "due diligence".

I'm still betting on something happening to the DVC member. She seemed to have a regular presence here until early September which is the same time that the OP lost contact with her. OP, have you reached out to the other people on her "for rent" thread? Do they have the same problem? The other thing is that her countdown timer says "today is the day!" with passports on it. Perhaps she is out of the country?

 

[CarolMN]

While that's a good reminder, I'm not sure what MORE the OP could have done. It appears that he did his "due diligence".

I'm still betting on something happening to the DVC member. She seemed to have a regular presence here until early September which is the same time that the OP lost contact with her. OP, have you reached out to the other people on her "for rent" thread? Do they have the same problem? The other thing is that her countdown timer says "today is the day!" with passports on it. Perhaps she is out of the country?

You may be correct. I hope so.

IMO, money should not be sent without a reservation number that can be checked. That's no guarantee, but there is no risk to the owner to provide that if the reservation arrival date is more than a month or two away.

 

[vbmom40]

Did you contact any of the others who responded to her rental post to see if they have been taken?

 

[crisi]

You may be correct. I hope so.

IMO, money should not be sent without a reservation number that can be checked. That's no guarantee, but there is no risk to the owner to provide that if the reservation arrival date is more than a month or two away.

Unless they need to borrow points to get the reservation made. I'd be looking for a deposit of at least the points I was going to borrow BEFORE I borrowed points.

But that's one reason that brokers are able to charge a little more, and we as owners are willing to pay a little less - the broker has the risk, and provides the guarantees.

 

[kniquy]

important information regarding due diligence

I'm still betting on something happening to the DVC member.

I wanted to provided some input here as I did help the renter get some further information on the "owner".

I searched the name on the OCC -(as did the potential renter) so yes there was a current owner listed, I went a little further to look at their track record (looking at many past documents tied to their name and DVC), which was less than stellar with having multiple late maintenance fees, but the last occurrence was in 2010, so essentially current since then.

Then looking back at past paperwork on the occ there was an address in MS ( i had to dig for this one as it was tough to find), but the address provided to the renter was a FL address with a CT phone number, a little odd but people move or go to FL for part of the year all the time. The address in FL was not listed as the name of the person on the contract - To me this could be reasonable because again people rent homes all the time. The owners of the contract still owned a house in MS -- the same address on some of their OCC paperwork.

I gave the renter the name of the husband also on the contract and the address in MS (the "member" was the wife) - The renter was able to find a phone number and called and spoke with the husband. He told the renter that they have never rented their points.

So with that somehow someone found a random contract and used that info to lure the renter in.

It could have happened to anyone, but the red flags that would have stopped me would have been:
The member on disboards had only been on since Jan of 2017 - I would have stopped right there.
The contract had some flaws in the past that could potentially cancel my reservation if they defaulted on maintenance fees again.

Having received a transfer before - the member provided me with a current screen shot of his member page with personal info and their points status -- someone who is not a member would likely not be able to do this unless they really are computer savvy and could recreate a members webpage.

I guess paying through paypal is not safe and secure - It has been a long time since i set up a paypal account -- what kind of security measures do they have to match up names - checking accounts etc? i think it is mainly via someones email that a payment is sent-so essentially anyone can create a paypal account - get the money transferred into their account without there being any ability to match up names. There is no way to really identify who you are sending money to.

Just another example of the scummy people out there.

 

[LYSE]

.

I wanted to provided some input here as I did help the renter get some further information on the "owner".

I searched the name on the OCC -(as did the potential renter) so yes there was a current owner listed, I went a little further to look at their track record (looking at many past documents tied to their name and DVC), which was less than stellar with having multiple late maintenance fees, but the last occurrence was in 2010, so essentially current since then.

Then looking back at past paperwork on the occ there was an address in MS ( i had to dig for this one as it was tough to find), but the address provided to the renter was a FL address with a CT phone number, a little odd but people move or go to FL for part of the year all the time. The address in FL was not listed as the name of the person on the contract - To me this could be reasonable because again people rent homes all the time. The owners of the contract still owned a house in MS -- the same address on some of their OCC paperwork.

I gave the renter the name of the husband also on the contract and the address in MS (the "member" was the wife) - The renter was able to find a phone number and called and spoke with the husband. He told the renter that they have never rented their points.

So with that somehow someone found a random contract and used that info to lure the renter in.

It could have happened to anyone, but the red flags that would have stopped me would have been:
The member on disboards had only been on since Jan of 2017 - I would have stopped right there.
The contract had some flaws in the past that could potentially cancel my reservation if they defaulted on maintenance fees again.

Having received a transfer before - the member provided me with a current screen shot of his member page with personal info and their points status -- someone who is not a member would likely not be able to do this unless they really are computer savvy and could recreate a members webpage.

I guess paying through paypal is not safe and secure - It has been a long time since i set up a paypal account -- what kind of security measures do they have to match up names - checking accounts etc? i think it is mainly via someones email that a payment is sent-so essentially anyone can create a paypal account - get the money transferred into their account without there being any ability to match up names. There is no way to really identify who you are sending money to.

Just another example of the scummy people out there.

Nice job!

Do we know if the scammer had a paypal verified address?

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/shipping-address-outside

When your the one sending money it's a little harder to check, but you will see this in the history...here's my last DVC rental payment...

 

[robinb]

I wanted to provided some input here as I did help the renter get some further information on the "owner".

I searched the name on the OCC -(as did the potential renter) so yes there was a current owner listed, I went a little further to look at their track record (looking at many past documents tied to their name and DVC), which was less than stellar with having multiple late maintenance fees, but the last occurrence was in 2010, so essentially current since then.

Then looking back at past paperwork on the occ there was an address in MS ( i had to dig for this one as it was tough to find), but the address provided to the renter was a FL address with a CT phone number, a little odd but people move or go to FL for part of the year all the time. The address in FL was not listed as the name of the person on the contract - To me this could be reasonable because again people rent homes all the time. The owners of the contract still owned a house in MS -- the same address on some of their OCC paperwork.

I gave the renter the name of the husband also on the contract and the address in MS (the "member" was the wife) - The renter was able to find a phone number and called and spoke with the husband. He told the renter that they have never rented their points.

So with that somehow someone found a random contract and used that info to lure the renter in.

It could have happened to anyone, but the red flags that would have stopped me would have been:
The member on disboards had only been on since Jan of 2017 - I would have stopped right there.
The contract had some flaws in the past that could potentially cancel my reservation if they defaulted on maintenance fees again.

Having received a transfer before - the member provided me with a current screen shot of his member page with personal info and their points status -- someone who is not a member would likely not be able to do this unless they really are computer savvy and could recreate a members webpage.

I guess paying through paypal is not safe and secure - It has been a long time since i set up a paypal account -- what kind of security measures do they have to match up names - checking accounts etc? i think it is mainly via someones email that a payment is sent-so essentially anyone can create a paypal account - get the money transferred into their account without there being any ability to match up names. There is no way to really identify who you are sending money to.

Just another example of the scummy people out there.

Well, that's disappointing. I think this is probably only the 3rd DVC scam I've read about on the DIS and I've been here since 1999. No wonder the scammer said, "I accept PayPal only as I find personal checks unsafe for both parties." because his/her REAL name was not the one that would be on a check! OP, I am very sorry you were taken.

FWIW, nothing about the scammer would have raised red flags for me. Being a member of the DIS for 8 months with nearly 200 posts would have been enough for me, plus finding her "name" in the OCC. The only thing that might have made me think twice was that her posts often had a nasty edge to them.

 

[CraigInPA]

It occurs to me that the scammer would have moved the money out of paypal. As such, paypal would have the information on where it went. However, you're likely to have to file a complaint with your local police about the theft, and they'll have to contact paypal to obtain the destination of the money. If the destination is outside the US, you're completely out of luck.

 

[CarolMN]

Well, that's disappointing. ........(snip)........FWIW, nothing about the scammer would have raised red flags for me. Being a member of the DIS for 8 months with nearly 200 posts would have been enough for me, plus finding her "name" in the OCC. The only thing that might have made me think twice was that her posts often had a nasty edge to them.

The reservation was to begin in June 2018 and was requested last August. Would you have sent money without a reservation number that you could at least verify had been made? I would not. (There will always be a risk that the owner cancels or Disney cancels due to issues with the account).