Borrowed v. Banking Points Return

WilsonFlyer

DIS Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Can someone help me rationalize how DVC can allow everyone in every UY to return borrowed points for cancelled trips and not allow those of us that (through no fault of our own) have UYs outside our banking windows (April and June come to mind) to bank our points for cancelled trips?

Borrowing points was a conscious decision. In other words, everyone that borrowed points knew full well the potential ramifications of borrowing those points (or at least they should have). Those of us using our current UY points booking vacations at the end of our UY had absolutely no choice except to do what we did.

If the argument can be substantiated that allowing us to bank our points throws the system out of balance, I would contend that it no more throws the system out of balance than the violation of the rule that borrowed points can't be returned. The no return of borrowed points is equally part and parcel to the balance of the system. How is it any different?
 
My own take. Banked points represent the past and borrowed points the future.

The inventory associated with those points is gone. Borrowed points, when put back, are back to the year they came from and thus represent the inventory to which they belong.

Say there are 100,000 2018 UY banked points effected. Those were slated for rooms in both the 2018 and 2019 UY. Moving them to 2020 adds a great deal of stress to the system since they aren’t supposed to be there

Say there are 100,000 borrowed points from 2020 UY. Putting them back doesn’t overload technically anything since the rooms attached to them are still there to be booked.

Points have a shelf life of two years. Banking banked points gives them 3. Borrowing points shortens the shelf life so returning them does not change their shelf life...still 2 years

I do think people with 2019 April and June UY points should be allowed banking beyond window , but only them since everyone else is on notice.

This is not to say I’m not concerned about the future and it’s effect.
 
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Borrowed points are points from a future use year. While it's supposed to be a one-way transaction and can't be reversed, I believe the rationale is that if the reservation could not have been made in the first place, the borrowing of points would not have been necessary, and thus those points should be where they began back in the future use year.

The risk of using banked and current year points at the end of the use year is a known risk by DVC members. If you choose to us points and travel at the end of your use year, you know you are risking losing them if something happens to prevent the trip. I don't agree with the loss of current year points which might have been banked if the reservation wasn't available. DVC was allowing current year points past the banking window to be banked for a very short time, but stopped. I believe they probably looked at the number of current year points that might have to have been banked after the deadline and recognized that the number was sufficient to create an unfulfillable demand next year.

Under the DVCMC rules, they can adjust banking and borrowing rules to prevent the system from being thrown out of whack.
 
<snip>My own take. Banked points represent the past and borrowed points the future.<snip>

Just making sure we're clear here. That reservation was made wholly with 2019 points. No banked points were used in the Easter reservation. That was the first opportunity I had to do anything with those points, aside from banking them prior to Jan 31.

I don't think penalizing me because I didn't have a crystal ball is fair.
 


Just making sure we're clear here. That reservation was made wholly with 2019 points. No banked points were used in the Easter reservation. That was the first opportunity I had to do anything with those points, aside from banking them prior to Jan 31.

I don't think penalizing me because I didn't have a crystal ball is fair.

I get it, but let me play devils advocate...how is this any different then other years when you travel late in your UY?

Traveling outside banking window comes with risks. There are several times that people have an unforeseen emergency that forces them to cancel, don’t hsve insurance and lose points, They even will say “ I don’t plan to cancel”

The only difference here is that this emergency is not normal. Granted, you are not the one canceling, and that is why DVCM has said they are discussing potential options for people in your situation.

We can be disappointed that they may not be bending all the rules, and I feel bad for owners in this situation and I do hope DVCM can find a way to make it right,

But expecting it? No, I’m just not there.
 
<snip> how is this any different then other years when you travel late in your UY? <snip>

It's different because I'm ready and willing to go. Just give me my room.

It's not their fault. Well, actually it is. Hotels are open all over the country. They chose to close because they can't see how to make any money. Might as well call it what it is. Oh people are going to holler and scream at that and that's fine. Oh how wonderful Disney is for recognizing the severity of the problem... blah, blah, blah. LOL Hogwash. Disney was scared of losing a dollar. Period.

It's not my fault. If it was, tough on me. I get that. See line 1 above.

We use the line "all you got is a hotel room for your DVC dollars" when it's advantageous to do so, or when used to argue with the typical, "I want my free dining with DVC." Fine then. I want my room. Or give me my money (points in a usable time period) back because you didn't give me the room I paid for. THAT'S how simple it all is.
 
I'm never going to miss my banking deadline. I guess I could use my one time grace banking to get those 181 points back, but I know that when they don't allow me to do it, I'm going to seriously blow a gasket. That's the only reason I haven't tried it.

What I ought to do is sell everything I've got and put the money in the market. I could stay all I want for the rest of my natural life CRO at GF and get all the deals cash guests and APs get plus all the benefits. Hmmm... Now that I actually said that out loud, that really doesn't sound like a bad idea at all.
 


Hotels are open all over the country.
Timeshares all over - Wyndham, Marriott, other systems, independents - are closing. Owners in those systems are struggling with time restraints on usage of their weeks and points, too. At least DVC says they’re aware and are looking for a solution. Not all timeshare systems are doing even that.

“Some Members may have questions about reservation cancellations involving Points that are set to expire soon. At this time, we are evaluating the banking and expiration policy and the use of certain Points impacted by the closures. As a part of our evaluation process, we need to be considerate of the impact any changes could have on future inventory availability for the Membership overall. A decision will be made when we better understand how long COVID-19 will impact our operations.
 
Does anyone think there’s any way Disney could pull from their cash inventory to somehow give a bone to owners who lost banked points due to closure? I have no idea how this would work but if there is an extended closure I can’t imagine them not doing anything. Unfortunately, like previous posters said, I really don’t see them ever banking banked points due to problems with future bookings and availability
 
Does anyone think there’s any way Disney could pull from their cash inventory to somehow give a bone to owners who lost banked points due to closure? I have no idea how this would work but if there is an extended closure I can’t imagine them not doing anything. Unfortunately, like previous posters said, I really don’t see them ever banking banked points due to problems with future bookings and availability

Any points owned by DIsney are already built into the system and some of that will help in the overall scheme of things. Points associated with typical breakage will also help...though could impact dues since Those rooms are booked for cash and if there is no longer the availability to do that, the money isn’t going to be in the 2021 budget.

Could DVC possibly waive the restriction to allow people losing points to book in the Disney Collection? Maybe, but since to do that, DVC rooms have to be given over to cover the cost, it doesn’t seem it would work,
 
Does anyone think there’s any way Disney could pull from their cash inventory to somehow give a bone to owners who lost banked points due to closure? I have no idea how this would work but if there is an extended closure I can’t imagine them not doing anything. Unfortunately, like previous posters said, I really don’t see them ever banking banked points due to problems with future bookings and availability

Ummm... They already have. For some.
 
It's a mess for sure. I used 2019 and 2020 for my May ressie. We have an August UY. I can't change or cancel without points going into holding. Impossible to use before August. Of course, then there are dining and event reservations. Plus our APs expire in May. Too bad I remembered in late January that our APs were expiring. Otherwise, we wouldn't have booked when we did.

Rant over!
 
It's a mess for sure. I used 2019 and 2020 for my May ressie. We have an August UY. I can't change or cancel without points going into holding. Impossible to use before August. Of course, then there are dining and event reservations. Plus our APs expire in May. Too bad I remembered in late January that our APs were expiring. Otherwise, we wouldn't have booked when we did.

Rant over!

They are not putting any points in holding right now. So, if you cancel before March 31st, you can still get those 2019 points banked!
 
we are feeling like we are penalized for owning with what I see they are offering WDW resort guests now. I want the points that I paid for and paid dues on and intended on using back. If they dont make this right we will for sure be selling and just taking advantage of reg resort discounts that are usually there, even if a little... they have better customer service it seems. If I Cancelled on our own doing then yes its our problem but we banked what we knew we werent using to 2020 back in Jan before the deadline. We had 45 of our points into this April trip and now they are lost, money down the drain. I have emailed DVC and not heard back. Guessing they wont be answering Members emails.
 
we are feeling like we are penalized for owning with what I see they are offering WDW resort guests now. I want the points that I paid for and paid dues on and intended on using back. If they dont make this right we will for sure be selling and just taking advantage of reg resort discounts that are usually there, even if a little... they have better customer service it seems. If I Cancelled on our own doing then yes its our problem but we banked what we knew we werent using to 2020 back in Jan before the deadline. We had 45 of our points into this April trip and now they are lost, money down the drain. I have emailed DVC and not heard back. Guessing they wont be answering Members emails.

They are answering emails. I sent one about 10 days ago and just got an answer today. Not sure when you sent it, but I know that is a longer timeline than normal.
 
As I said in another thread I disagree with them sticking with the banking deadlines in this situation. It was outside of the owners control. It is penalizing 2 of the 8 UY's for something that is no fault of their own. ie - the resorts are closed with zero option of still going. And my other reason is that they disregard it themselves when they sell points and allow the buyers to bank points even though they are past the banking deadline.
 
Under the DVCMC rules, they can adjust banking and borrowing rules to prevent the system from being thrown out of whack.

Can someone point to the to the rule that gives DVCMC the ability to specifically unborrow points? This is copied from the Home Resort Rules and Regulations available on the DVC member site (my emphasis added):

"Banking or Borrowing may be suspended or limited by DVC Operator from time to time, in its discretion, in order to maintain a proper balance of reservations and Home Resort Vacation Points in the Club’s central reservation system."

I didn't see anything in this document that would allow the unborrowing of points. Is this disclosed somewhere else?
 
Can someone point to the to the rule that gives DVCMC the ability to specifically unborrow points? This is copied from the Home Resort Rules and Regulations available on the DVC member site (my emphasis added):

"Banking or Borrowing may be suspended or limited by DVC Operator from time to time, in its discretion, in order to maintain a proper balance of reservations and Home Resort Vacation Points in the Club’s central reservation system."

I didn't see anything in this document that would allow the unborrowing of points. Is this disclosed somewhere else?

DVCM is allowed to make changes as needed. So, it’s within their authority to amend the rules for borrowing (Last line)...sorry for the small print.

484103
 
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I saw that wording too...I took that as they could amend the rules outlined in the document but the changes would be part of a new set of rules with updated documentation. Not that they could veer from the rules whenever they wanted without officially changing anything. Otherwise, they could just do whatever they want whenever they want.
 

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