Borrowed v. Banking Points Return

[WilsonFlyer]

CRO booking has apparently opened beginning June 1.

Congratulations to all Apr and June UY members! You just lost your entire investment in any points used between March 15 and May 31 unless DVC does something.

Magical vacations and magical memories indeed.

 

[carli_h]

CRO booking has apparently opened beginning June 1.

Congratulations to all Apr and June UY members! You just lost your entire investment in any points used between March 15 and May 31 unless DVC does something.

Magical vacations and magical memories indeed.

I’m from the UK bought direct last May and were due to to travel towards end of May using our 2019 June UY points as well as 20 OTU points.

It’s our first welcome home visit and I completely understand that there are much bigger issues going on. In the UK companies have been fantastic at providing other options so consumers aren’t losing out. I would be extremely disappointed if my OTU points weren’t refunded or banked and a reasonable alternative option provided for our 2019 points.

I was on hold for 75 minutes yesterday and it looked like they were going to bank them for us. After they tried to bank them I was told to send an email so there was something in writing as they were now considering what to do.

Fingers crossed there’s a reasonable alternative for all impacted.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

BTW, and I thought this was obvious but maybe not.

Borrowing and not being allowed to return is part and parcel to part of the reason why banking works. It's probably the MAIN reason it works, yet, so far at least; the ones they've protected are the ones that borrowed with time left to book those points this year (likely) instead of those of us who have no choice in the matter when booking 1/3 of the calendar year.

They protected the wrong group. They protected the points of the group that didn't need protection.

 

[Sandisw]

BTW, and I thought this was obvious but maybe not.

Borrowing and not being allowed to return is part and parcel to part of the reason why banking works. It's probably the MAIN reason it works, yet, so far at least; the ones they've protected are the ones that borrowed with time left to book those points this year (likely) instead of those of us who have no choice in the matter when booking 1/3 of the calendar year.

They protected the wrong group. They protected the points of the group that didn't need protection.

Hard to take out the emotion and think about people and choices but it has absolutely nothing to do with that.

I do agree with you that had they not allowed any rule changes, then not only would your points be lost but so would lots of other people and for you, that would make it easier to handle the loss of points if more people were effected,

 

[momtwoboys]

lovely stock email response I got this morning. Did not address any specifics on what members with June UY who had reservations booked during this time. They think we must not matter.

 

[Sandisw]

lovely stock email response I got this morning. Did not address any specifics on what members with June UY who had reservations booked during this time. They think we must not matter.

I truly believe it is a situation that has to be handled legally and that is going to take time,

DVCM has indicated they are working on it and until they have a better idea of the total loss of inventory during this years, will play a role in that decision,

As frustrating as it is, it is very complicated situation and will take time. If they really didn’t care, the notices would simply say, we can not make adjustments and we are sorry, But, instead, they indicate they are trying to work something out if they legally can.

 

[momtwoboys]

I truly believe it is a situation that has to be handled legally and that is going to take time,

DVCM has indicated they are working on it and until they have a better idea of the total loss of inventory during this years, will play a role in that decision,

As frustrating as it is, it is very complicated situation and will take time. If they really didn’t care, the notices would simply say, we can not make adjustments and we are sorry, But, instead, they indicate they are trying to work something out if they legally can.

my response from them was " banking rules apply" nothing more. they didnt say they were working on it to me. They said no changes to banking. That was it. I understand it will take time, but then say they are working on Members who are affected first, April/June UY's then I wouldnt worry, or think hard about listing our contract and just booking yearly with the agency that gives great deals. Feels like Shame on us. Hope I'm wrong and things get worked out. They could also have at least said "If you rebook now we will use those points in the new ressie.

 

[jarestel]

I have no way of knowing but I suspect DVC will find a way to make most of us, if not happy, then at least satisfied. They are very good at this sort of thing but until they conceive a recovery plan that doesn't throw the next couple of points years into chaos, I can see why they aren't promising anything at this point.

 

[Sandisw]

my response from them was " banking rules apply" nothing more. they didnt say they were working on it to me. They said no changes to banking. That was it. I understand it will take time, but then say they are working on Members who are affected first, April/June UY's then I wouldnt worry, or think hard about listing our contract and just booking yearly with the agency that gives great deals. Feels like Shame on us. Hope I'm wrong and things get worked out. They could also have at least said "If you rebook now we will use those points in the new ressie.

It’s possible the emails are being sent like that because the message on the website and the mass email sent, does mention they are evaluating things,

Im sure they are getting hammered, so they may have directed CMs who answer to only send a standard email so no one accidentally gives out the wrong information.

 

[Henwen88]

I have no skin in the game (well, a little skin in 3 holding points used for a May reservation which I went ahead and cancelled last Friday after the announcement - hopefully those get returned to full use, but overall tiny compared to some of these poor members that I've been reading about).

These situations where travel was booked (with current UY points) after banking window and Disney (not the member) cancels the reservation should absolutely be allowed to bank those points. If they would have known at the time of their banking window that Disney would not have a room for them, then I am completely sure they would have banked (not double banking or re-banking---this is not what I'm referring to).

One of my UY is June, and I have traveled several times in May, with a complete understanding that if due to something happening in my life I may have to lose points if I cancel. I would be livid if I had completely bankable points that are going 'poof' in a few months due to no fault of my own.

I have read the legalese, and it looks like DVD/DVC has a large amount of latitude. We get the short end of many sticks, and it would be nice to be thrown a bone every once in a while.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

Just making sure we're clear here. That reservation was made wholly with 2019 points. No banked points were used in the Easter reservation. That was the first opportunity I had to do anything with those points, aside from banking them prior to Jan 31.

I don't think penalizing me because I didn't have a crystal ball is fair.

Sandisw's reply still holds true, though. The borrowed points are tied to future inventory. Returning them to their original UY doesn't throw the system out of whack. I think DVC is going to end up doing something for the April and June UY folks that were affected, though. Give them a little time. As far as points are concerned, DVC shouldn't do anything for August UY and beyond. Those people have had time to cancel and bank those points.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

<snip> how is this any different then other years when you travel late in your UY? <snip>

It's different because I'm ready and willing to go. Just give me my room.

It's not their fault. Well, actually it is. Hotels are open all over the country. They chose to close because they can't see how to make any money. Might as well call it what it is. Oh people are going to holler and scream at that and that's fine. Oh how wonderful Disney is for recognizing the severity of the problem... blah, blah, blah. LOL Hogwash. Disney was scared of losing a dollar. Period.

It's not my fault. If it was, tough on me. I get that. See line 1 above.

We use the line "all you got is a hotel room for your DVC dollars" when it's advantageous to do so, or when used to argue with the typical, "I want my free dining with DVC." Fine then. I want my room. Or give me my money (points in a usable time period) back because you didn't give me the room I paid for. THAT'S how simple it all is.

"They chose to close because they can't see how to make any money." You can't be serious. The governor of FL and Orange County are the ones dictating DVC's decision. No theme parks are allowed to be open. There is a stay at home ORDER in effect, which means DVC resorts can't be open. Actually, the exact opposite of your claim is true. DVC does want to make money, you're correct. How does closing help them make money? They WANT to be open. I get you are upset about your points situation. But it is what it is. Closing is something DVC doesn't have control of.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

Ummm... They already have. For some.

I don't remember DVC allowing banking of already banked points during the COVID issue.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

It's a mess for sure. I used 2019 and 2020 for my May ressie. We have an August UY. I can't change or cancel without points going into holding. Impossible to use before August. Of course, then there are dining and event reservations. Plus our APs expire in May. Too bad I remembered in late January that our APs were expiring. Otherwise, we wouldn't have booked when we did.

Rant over!

Your banking window hasn't expired. You can still cancel and bank those points.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

I saw that wording too...I took that as they could amend the rules outlined in the document but the changes would be part of a new set of rules with updated documentation. Not that they could veer from the rules whenever they wanted without officially changing anything. Otherwise, they could just do whatever they want whenever they want.

I think that wording is there to allow them to make decisions in extreme circumstances, which qualifies here. In normal times they can't just do "whatever they want whenever they want". In normal times, if they were making a more permanent amendment to the rules I'm sure we would get updated documentation. But in this situation, these aren't permanent decisions...they are temporary to help get through a difficult time. I think DVC is trying to balance what is best for each member with what is best for the future. Some people seem to think there is something sinister at play and that DVC is trying to screw them over. I don't think that at all.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

I have no way of knowing but I suspect DVC will find a way to make most of us, if not happy, then at least satisfied. They are very good at this sort of thing but until they conceive a recovery plan that doesn't throw the next couple of points years into chaos, I can see why they aren't promising anything at this point.

Exactly...thank you! Some people apparently need an answer NOW. They rail on DVC for not making them whole right now, but can't see that they are also being ridiculous. This situation has never happened in DVC's existence, people! It's a global pandemic. Give them time to figure out what to do. I'm sure they will come up with decisions to make everyone happy.

 

[Sandisw]

I have no skin in the game (well, a little skin in 3 holding points used for a May reservation which I went ahead and cancelled last Friday after the announcement - hopefully those get returned to full use, but overall tiny compared to some of these poor members that I've been reading about).

These situations where travel was booked (with current UY points) after banking window and Disney (not the member) cancels the reservation should absolutely be allowed to bank those points. If they would have known at the time of their banking window that Disney would not have a room for them, then I am completely sure they would have banked (not double banking or re-banking---this is not what I'm referring to).

One of my UY is June, and I have traveled several times in May, with a complete understanding that if due to something happening in my life I may have to lose points if I cancel. I would be livid if I had completely bankable points that are going 'poof' in a few months due to no fault of my own.

I have read the legalese, and it looks like DVD/DVC has a large amount of latitude. We get the short end of many sticks, and it would be nice to be thrown a bone every once in a while.

We as owners, agreed to allow DVCM to have emergency powers to act on our behalf, when there is a state of emergency.

This situation is no ones fault, but nonetheless, we have to accept the realty that we, as owners, are ultimately the ones who will suffer the consequence....and yes, that means lost points that hit certain owners worse than others.

 

[Sandisw]

Sandisw's reply still holds true, though. The borrowed points are tied to future inventory. Returning them to their original UY doesn't throw the system out of whack. I think DVC is going to end up doing something for the April and June UY folks that were affected, though. Give them a little time. As far as points are concerned, DVC shouldn't do anything for August UY and beyond. Those people have had time to cancel and bank those points.

I do want to add that putting back of borrowed points could still cause an issue depending on how many it ends up being, and if it does, they will adjust,

But, at least moving them back was one step to spread out the lost room inventory.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I don't remember DVC allowing banking of already banked points during the COVID issue.

For the second time, this is not about already banked points. This is about current UY points, and yes; they most certainly did let people bank current UY points early on. Word is that it depended on who you talked to, but apparently a lot of people were able to. I knew about it when it was going on because I keep up on the boards, but trying to be a good DVC citizen, I refrained from calling and contributing to overwhelming MS and here I stand for my trying to do the right thing.

I haven't seen one single post that I can attribute to anybody complaining about banking already used and cancelled banked points for a second time. Maybe it exist, but I haven't come across one and I read the boards pretty thoroughly, especially on what's going on right now with those of us with APR and JUN UYs. Allowing re-banking of already banked points would account for 4 years of usability in a system designed entirely around points being good for 3 years of use. Those of us complaining are having usage of our points cut off at 2 years.

 

[Sandisw]

For the second time, this is not about already banked points. This is about current UY points, and yes; they most certainly did let people bank current UY points early on. Word is that it depended on who you talked to, but apparently a lot of people were able to. I knew about it when it was going on because I keep up on the boards, but trying to be a good DVC citizen, I refrained from calling and contributing to overwhelming MS and here I stand for my trying to do the right thing.

I haven't seen one single post that I can attribute to anybody complaining about banking already used and cancelled banked points for a second time. Maybe it exist, but I haven't come across one and I read the boards pretty thoroughly, especially on what's going on right now with those of us with APR and JUN UYs. Allowing re-banking of already banked points would account for 4 years of usability in a system designed entirely around points being good for 3 years of use. Those of us complaining are having usage of our points cut off at 2 years.

You are definitely correct that some CMs did it for members a few days and it was abruptly stopped,

Which tells you they should not have done so and must have gotten the memo that they are to follow the rules of banking.

Just like return of borrowing was allowed for a couple of days, then stopped for about 3, and then allowed again, Again, it changed because they must have decided it needed to change it for the system....not to spread cheer,

Personally, I do think they should bend for people in your situation. But, then again, I don’t have all the numbers in front of me, Maybe the bulk of the points effected are April and June UY points. We don’t know, Maybe they found there were not a ton of borrowed points and it made sense to return.

We really have no idea, This can’t be looked at in a vacuum, The good news is that they have said they are evaluating things vs giving a hard no,