Choosing to stay during a mandatory evacuation

[OhDannyBoy]

I don't think fining people who are likely poor is really going to accomplish much.

And look, I respect first responders but they took a job that is dangerous. That means you might have to do dangerous things. Leaving people to die to prove a point is not one of those things. Ask a first responder, I bet they agree.

That being said, staying in a mandatory evacuation zone means you're chances of getting help are very slim to none. It hard to get to you. Weigh your options and proceed accordingly.

 

[kamik86]

I wonder how much of it is simply not trusting those that make the decisions.

I live in the North East so ours are generally snow storms. You don't generally evacuate for those but something similar.
I drove during a mandatory everyone stay off the roads due to a snow storm once. So did many of my coworkers.

We had been on travel so we were flying in.
Boston got hit with a huge snow storm. Our government decided to make it so no one can drive on the roads. Any of them... in the entire state.
I live on the other side 3 hours from Boston in an area much better at dealing with snow... which we were getting less of. It wasn't even our worst storm of the season. It was the type of storm that you don't go out for no reason, you don't choose to go shopping or visit someone but if you have to you drive really carefully.

I landed in Albany NY the fact that I could land at the local airport to me (yes a bit over an hour from my house but its the closest airport) should be an indication that it wasn't that bad there. If I was really afraid to drive home (I called my parents and my husband to see how it was there) I could have stayed in a hotel in Albany and charged work for it. So it wasn't even about money.

The thing was no one was even enforcing the ban. My home street was clear... which is a street that literally only has two roads that connect to it and you have no reason to be on unless going to a house on the road, its one of the last places to be cleared in a storm. So I drove home.

If shortly after this there was another driving ban honestly I would have a harder time even taking it this seriously (after the backlash from this one our governer learned and next time banned driving East of a certain point. So those of us out here could continue on our way.)

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My only point was one person’s life is not more valuable than another. Most ppl stayed b/c they had no other choice. Technically first responders still had a choice to not respond if were too dangerous.

I think you're missing the point of my post honestly.

Saying "Technically first responders still had a choice to not respond if were too dangerous." is just IDK wrong in my book to say to try to make your point. So many people join those jobs because they want to help people. And for most people it would weigh heavily on their conscious to say no. Bystanders are the same. People lose their own lives trying to save other people from flooded cars for example even knowing it's not safe to attempt to.

I get it, it's been said many times, about people who had no other choice. Those are the people those first responders are there to save (they are there to save everyone but I think you know what I mean when I say that). The elderly in an assisted living facilty, the ones who didn't have any means whatsoever save for walking out of the area, the ones who had no warning, etc. But we all know that is not all who were there.

And FWIW I'm speakng about more than just hurricanes. We all may joke about tornadoes in my area but you bet your butt I'm not standing outside filming a dang tornado. When you're told not to drive your car into standing water during a storm/event where flash flooding is a risk and there's still people who do that and flash flooding gets their cars, etc.

There's this spot in my area that floods a lot and it got to the point where the businesses couldn't get flood insurance. One of the business owners knew the area where his business was was flooding at the time and he and another person went into the restaurant to try and move things. Flash flooding occurred, breaking through the glass and they ended up nearly dying by sheer luck they had cell phones and signal to call to alert in the wee hours of the morning that they were there and by climbing on equipment and moving to an area not do deep in water inside the restaurant. They were rescued by water rescue team who used a boat, ladder and a saw to cut a hole in the roof to save them. Afterwards the main owner said he was "Embarrassed. Thankful. We put their lives in danger and they came and got us and we appreciate that. They did their job above and beyond. We were scared in there. I've never been in something like that" as well as "It was stupid that's for sure. Trying to save property. I'm sorry I put my friends and my family through that. It's been a rough morning,"

In any case I understand and have even more understanding due to various threads here on the DIS the struggles people go through. But it's not always those people being spoken about. And sometimes, like my original comment was speaking about, we forget the experiences of the people helping out as part of their job.

 

[luvsJack]

Everyone keeps mentioning emergency responders having to go out to help during a hurricane. Have you experienced this? Have you known someone who did?

During most big storms, they will announce that after a certain point no one will be responding. So where exactly is this even happening?

 

[luvsJack]

I think you're missing the point of my post honestly.

Saying "Technically first responders still had a choice to not respond if were too dangerous." is just IDK wrong in my book to say to try to make your point. So many people join those jobs because they want to help people. And for most people it would weigh heavily on their conscious to say no. Bystanders are the same. People lose their own lives trying to save other people from flooded cars for example even knowing it's not safe to attempt to.

I get it, it's been said many times, about people who had no other choice. Those are the people those first responders are there to save (they are there to save everyone but I think you know what I mean when I say that). The elderly in an assisted living facilty, the ones who didn't have any means whatsoever save for walking out of the area, the ones who had no warning, etc. But we all know that is not all who were there.

And FWIW I'm speakng about more than just hurricanes. We all may joke about tornadoes in my area but you bet your butt I'm not standing outside filming a dang tornado. When you're told not to drive your car into standing water during a storm/event where flash flooding is a risk and there's still people who do that and flash flooding gets their cars, etc.

There's this spot in my area that floods a lot and it got to the point where the businesses couldn't get flood insurance. One of the business owners knew the area where his business was was flooding at the time and he and another person went into the restaurant to try and move things. Flash flooding occurred, breaking through the glass and they ended up nearly dying by sheer luck they had cell phones and signal to call to alert in the wee hours of the morning that they were there and by climbing on equipment and moving to an area not do deep in water inside the restaurant. They were rescued by water rescue team who used a boat, ladder and a saw to cut a hole in the roof to save them. Afterwards the main owner said he was "Embarrassed. Thankful. We put their lives in danger and they came and got us and we appreciate that. They did their job above and beyond. We were scared in there. I've never been in something like that" as well as "It was stupid that's for sure. Trying to save property. I'm sorry I put my friends and my family through that. It's been a rough morning,"

In any case I understand and have even more understanding due to various threads here on the DIS the struggles people go through. But it's not always those people being spoken about. And sometimes, like my original comment was speaking about, we forget the experiences of the people helping out as part of their job.

I am sure the guy did feel dumb after the fact. But, a LOT of business owners would have probably done the exact same thing. They have all their money and their life tied up in that business. Of course they want to try and save it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I am sure the guy did feel dumb after the fact. But, a LOT of business owners would have probably done the exact same thing. They have all their money and their life tied up in that business. Of course they want to try and save it.

Oh I know. I didn't say otherwise. But for him, in the end, it wasn't worth it if it meant he would have died or others were hurt or died as a result of saving him. And as for "their life tied up in that business" yeah for real his life actually was on the line for his business. That was his point in his comments, it was property but instead it became about his actual living breathing life and the lives of the other person with him and the lives of the people who saved him.

 

[Skywalker]

Everyone keeps mentioning emergency responders having to go out to help during a hurricane. Have you experienced this? Have you known someone who did?

During most big storms, they will announce that after a certain point no one will be responding. So where exactly is this even happening?

Really have you not seen / heard / watched all the rescue operations that take place during and after every disaster? Even if it is not literally in the actual middle of a hurricane, it is still often very dangerous to have to rescue people in the aftermath. I think that's the larger point.

 

[luvsJack]

Really have you not seen / heard / watched all the rescue operations that take place during and after every disaster? Even if it is not literally in the actual middle of a hurricane, it is still often very dangerous to have to rescue people in the aftermath. I think that's the larger point.

literally every one I have seen has been in the aftermath of the storm. I know for a fact that during Katrina, emergency personnel was NOT responding. It was heartbreaking, but they did not go out.

My sil is a cop and does search and rescue for hurricanes. AFTER the storm. They patrol up to a point and then are inside either the emergency management building or the sheriff's office until the storm passes. Search and rescue isn't safe, but neither is patrolling on Saturday night. Its a part of the job.

The rescues you saw in NOLA, were AFTER the storm and those people had no way of knowing those levees would break (which by the way, was a man made issue).

And not all the people you see being rescued after any storm are in a mandatory evacuation area.

 

[luvsJack]

Oh I know. I didn't say otherwise. But for him, in the end, it wasn't worth it if it meant he would have died or others were hurt or died as a result of saving him. And as for "their life tied up in that business" yeah for real his life actually was on the line for his business. That was his point in his comments, it was property but instead it became about his actual living breathing life and the lives of the other person with him and the lives of the people who saved him.

I understand how he felt about putting lives at risk. I get what he was saying. I am just saying that without insurance a big number of business owners would have done exactly what he did. It must be a horrible feeling for them to see their life's work floating away.

 

[sam_gordon]

There's a simple answer...

No more MANDATORY evacuations. Simply tell people the best option is to evacuate. If they choose not to, they may not be rescued. Done.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I understand how he felt about putting lives at risk. I get what he was saying. I am just saying that without insurance a big number of business owners would have done exactly what he did. It must be a horrible feeling for them to see their life's work floating away.

Of course it is, it's the same for people who watch or know their homes are gone, but the bigger point was he came out of it with his life and no one else was injured or died as a result of saving him and the other person. That was the point he was getting at. I don't really think he's thinking too hard on losing that location so much that he's alive so are others around him and that it didn't have to come to the point of being rescued by a hole cut in the ceiling if he had stayed out of that area. FWIW he hasn't reopened that restaurant location. There's still one location left. To make things more to the point the restaurant was previously co-owned by the man's father who had been murdered several months before. There was a huge emotional connection and he still said it was a poor decision. I'm not commenting about his story to generalize how others will/would feel. But suffice to say sometimes people are really just glad they made it out alive when they put themselves in harms way unnecessarily-it stopped being about property for him when the glass broke and the flood waters rushed in and he was unsure that he would make it out.

I still don't know if you understand what I'm saying. It's property or it's possibly your life, the lives around you, etc. Not having insurance doesn't make someone automatically more inclined to save belongings. Having insurance doesn't make someone automatically more inclined to save belongings. People want to save belongings because it's what we want to do. For some they realize the risk wasn't worth it,for some they get lucky and have no issues, and some don't make it out to tell anyone something either way.

 

[tex1989]

I hate to bring it up but part of this whole discussion that has to be mentioned is what impact media and the overall state of affairs things have come to in this country. As I said before I have lived on the Texas Gulf Coast since 1959 (birth year). I have been through quite a few hurricane seasons and can tell you that in the past the warning systems were certainly not as good, but also the idea that the government had to tell us what to do was not as previlant at all.

Yes Harvey was bad, yes Ike was bad (recent storms) but how much have you ever heard about the floods of 1980? Pretty sure it was 1980 but in that year a town (Alvin) just south of Houston not far from where we live got a tropical storm that dumped 45.5 inches of rain. Not over the the course of the storm mind you, but in one 24 hour period. Tons of flooding and damage and people needing rescue. Prior to that when I was growing up the area I lived in getting a couple of days rain up to 20 to 30 inches was not unusual. We had just moved into our first house in May of 1983 when Alicia came knocking on our front door in August. The eye passed right over our house. I still remember the brief period when I ventured outside as the eye passed and the calm right after and before the storm. But in 1983 there were no manditory evacuations, there were recommendations, and warnings but no one said you must leave. People gauged the weather and the reports accessed their situation and reacted accordingly. Now with cable news 24-7 and all the hype you cannot get a true report to suggest what the real risks are. Also the population of the greater Houston area has grown to such a level that to evacuate everyone if they said leave would take 6 to 7 days. Local governments have actually set up systems to let people evacuate in stages because the routes out cannot handle the rush. They reverse highway lanes to allow evacuating people to drive on both sides of the highway, allow cars on the shoulder lanes and still cannot get everyone out on short notice. And if you look at Houston on a map, which way do you go? The only route guarenteed to take you out of harms way completely is inland and we only have so many roads going that direction. You could run parralel to the coast and wind up worse than where you started if the hurricane changes paths.

People have become sheep. They must be lead in the right direction, taken care of, have their hand held. Then if the information was bad and the storm worse they want to blame local offcials, if the storm is a non event then they ridicule local leaders. It is a no win situation. You have to know your own capabilities, responsibilities, threats and risks and make the best decision for you and yours. No amount of warning from the government or hype from the news factories can make the decision for you.

 

[LSUmiss]

I hate to bring it up but part of this whole discussion that has to be mentioned is what impact media and the overall state of affairs things have come to in this country. As I said before I have lived on the Texas Gulf Coast since 1959 (birth year). I have been through quite a few hurricane seasons and can tell you that in the past the warning systems were certainly not as good, but also the idea that the government had to tell us what to do was not as previlant at all.

Yes Harvey was bad, yes Ike was bad (recent storms) but how much have you ever heard about the floods of 1980? Pretty sure it was 1980 but in that year a town (Alvin) just south of Houston not far from where we live got a tropical storm that dumped 45.5 inches of rain. Not over the the course of the storm mind you, but in one 24 hour period. Tons of flooding and damage and people needing rescue. Prior to that when I was growing up the area I lived in getting a couple of days rain up to 20 to 30 inches was not unusual. We had just moved into our first house in May of 1983 when Alicia came knocking on our front door in August. The eye passed right over our house. I still remember the brief period when I ventured outside as the eye passed and the calm right after and before the storm. But in 1983 there were no manditory evacuations, there were recommendations, and warnings but no one said you must leave. People gauged the weather and the reports accessed their situation and reacted accordingly. Now with cable news 24-7 and all the hype you cannot get a true report to suggest what the real risks are. Also the population of the greater Houston area has grown to such a level that to evacuate everyone if they said leave would take 6 to 7 days. Local governments have actually set up systems to let people evacuate in stages because the routes out cannot handle the rush. They reverse highway lanes to allow evacuating people to drive on both sides of the highway, allow cars on the shoulder lanes and still cannot get everyone out on short notice. And if you look at Houston on a map, which way do you go? The only route guarenteed to take you out of harms way completely is inland and we only have so many roads going that direction. You could run parralel to the coast and wind up worse than where you started if the hurricane changes paths.

People have become sheep. They must be lead in the right direction, taken care of, have their hand held. Then if the information was bad and the storm worse they want to blame local offcials, if the storm is a non event then they ridicule local leaders. It is a no win situation. You have to know your own capabilities, responsibilities, threats and risks and make the best decision for you and yours. No amount of warning from the government or hype from the news factories can make the decision for you.

Yeah similar happened in Baton Rouge a couple summers ago. There was flooding from just a lot of rain. There were no orders to evacuate as there was no identified threat...until there was. Thankfully in most areas water rose up slowly & there was time to get ppl out albeit by boat mostly.

 

[arminnie]

I bought my New Orleans home 10 days before Katrina. I left town on the Wednesday before Katrina (Monday) because my father was having surgery in Arkansas- so I do not call that an evacuation. Just a fortunate circumstance.

Most of my friends live in the “sliver by the river” that did not flood. Many did not evacuate until after the storm when the levees broke. Then they got in their cars and left town. But many others were not able to do so.

But so many other people were low income and did not have the resources to leave. August 29th was at the end of the month. Many people are low on money then.

New Orleans provided zero resources to assist with evacuation. No shelters and no way to get there.

My DH and I were at WDW during Irma. We saw on TV over and over again that Florida had shelters set up with food and water. There were constant reminders of a phone number throne could call if they needed a ride.

NONE of that was available for Katrina victims.

Even though my home did not flood I did not return for two months. One can live albeit not comfortably without power - but running water is essential.

One of my dear friends is on oxygen. Her condo did not get electricity until May - NINE MONTHS after Katrina.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

There's a simple answer...

No more MANDATORY evacuations. Simply tell people the best option is to evacuate. If they choose not to, they may not be rescued. Done.

And then you get the people who cry "No one told us it would be this bad, pleeeeeeze come and get us!"

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I have lived on the Texas Gulf Coast my entire life and have been hear for everything from Carla to Harvey. I cannot describe the decision one has to make when a storm is coming. It is easy to say everyone must evacuate. But the question I pose is how many folks here and in the real world have ever faced that decision? It is easy to see in the aftermath and be an armchair quarterback saying who should have evacuated but the decision is not as simple as many people here say it is. Beyond the money and pet discussions brought up there is also the consideration that your entire life may be sitting in that house. Yes your life is the most important thing but the emotions that you go through are unbelievable. So as a result my opinion is the same as it has been for years, make your decision and do it! Stay, go, whatever it is understand that you may have to survive for a while without any outside help. That means no power, no water, no gas, no support period. If you can live with the odds then stay. If you can't, then leave.

But there is one thing I am sure of, others should be careful not to be judgemental about those who do stay, because if you have not walked a mile in their shoes then be careful how critical you are of their decisions. We have lived in the same house for 25 years and fortunately for us never flooded dispite 50 inches of rain from Harvey. We have lost power (have a generator) been unable to get food (up to 5 days) and been without water (4 days) before and made it through. There may be a big one coming someday where our decision to stay is the wrong one, but as we understand the risks at the end of the day it should be our decision.

The other consideration is the debaucle that was Rita which hit the same year as Katrina. An evacuation was called for from the Houston area and some people spent several days on roads and highways unable to move without gas, water or food. I can assure you that if it had been a direct hit rather than turning north before it came onshore that the death toll would have rivaled many storms before it. After that governmental agencies were hesitant to say evacuate from Ike and we got hit in the teeth with that one. So make your own decision based on your experience, knowledge of your area and confidence in you ability to prepare and ride out the aftermath if you cannot expect outside help.

My post came from someone who has evacuated & expects to have to evacuate again at some point.

 

[Forevermarypoppins]

THis has always stuck with me: Hurricane Katrina when persons were told to use a permanent marker and write their name on their arm for identification.
If you want to stay, OK. At least make it easier for others to identify your body.

I had the wrong storms. It was during RITA and Harvey.

 

[Southernmiss]

I had the wrong storms. It was during RITA and Harvey.

I heard that story told for Camille in 1969 long before Katrina and even then I heard it, too.

 

[MrsPete]

No judgement. Perhaps more people would be willing to evacuate if Government agencies didn’t truly lock them out of the affected areas when they try to return to their homes after the storm has passed.

Obviously this isn't always the case, but Wilmington is one of the spots hit hardest by Florence, and it's not the government keeping people out: It's the Cape Fear River. It's literally blocking the roads.

Some of the islands ARE refusing people who aren't residents or business owners (I understand they have a long-standing system of passes that prove "you belong", which are given out before hurricanes), but that's to prevent looting -- and, truthfully, if you're not a resident or business owner, what business do you have on those islands at this point? No one's going for vacation right now. If you're visiting a relative, the relative can meet you at the bridge and vouch for you /allow you in on his pass.

Given that most people who "choose" to stay do so largely due to reasons related to poverty, I would say no.

I don't think so. I have a good bit of family in Wilmington (and many of my friends and coworkers have family there too). Of those who chose to stay, finances were not mentioned as a factor. Not at all.

They say they want to stay because they want to be present to "fix things" immediately (and that's not unrealistic -- one of my family members had a tree "leaning" towards the house after the storm, and because he was home, he was able to get someone to take it down quickly. If he'd been away from home, the tree might've fallen on the house.) They stay because they fear looters.

But mostly they stay because they've stayed for previous (often smaller) hurricanes, and it's worked out okay, and they figure it'll be all right. And for MOST people, it will be all right -- after a couple scary-bad days -- but for someone, it's not going to be all right. Not at all. More than 30 people have died in this last hurricane.

That’s really easy to say, but someone already has a pet, they are told to evacuate. Pet isn’t up to date on shots. What exactly are they supposed to do at that moment?

I can't see a justification for not keeping your pet up to date on shots.

I feel for those who felt like they had to stay. Sometimes leaving just isn't a choice. I left for Matthew, and I will tell you that leaving can be pretty darn expensive (if you can find a room, that is) and you are at the mercy of whatever hotel you can get in to. If you end up having to stay multiple nights that can break a budget pretty quickly, not to mention having to possibly pay to stay somewhere if your home is damaged while trying to negotiate with insurance (if they even have any).

Yeah, finding and affording a hotel for an unknown number of nights can be expensive, but being injured in the hurricane is expensive too. Shelters are free and widely available; I've helped with setting them up (for tornadoes, not hurricanes, but I'm going to assume they're similar).

I have never understood why people stay to prevent looting. Everyone with posessions worth looting has homeowners insurance that will replace your belongings. Just take photos and document what you have before you leave

Looting is a problem in situations like this, but -- as you say -- insurance will replace things. They can't replace your spouse or your child.

And that was people don’t seem to always understand. It takes resources to evacuate and stay evacuated. Resources some people just don’t have

It’s very easy to say that everyone in a hurricane area should have an find set aside. There are people along the gulf states that have never been ordered to evacuate that may be told to for the next storm. These storms are not an every year occurance. I mean hurricanes are but not where they hit. If someone has an evacuation fund, chances are they will have to use it before the next storm for other life emergencies that are honestly more likely to happen.

I'm sure some families are genuinely making all the right financial choices and still aren't able to save, but -- truthfully -- most of us have some fluff in our budgets. Cable TV, eating out, lottery tickets. All but the poorest of us could put away a few dollars a week, and after a while it'll add up. Saving an emergency fund -- for most of us -- is possible.

 

[luvsJack]

Obviously this isn't always the case, but Wilmington is one of the spots hit hardest by Florence, and it's not the government keeping people out: It's the Cape Fear River. It's literally blocking the roads.

Some of the islands ARE refusing people who aren't residents or business owners (I understand they have a long-standing system of passes that prove "you belong", which are given out before hurricanes), but that's to prevent looting -- and, truthfully, if you're not a resident or business owner, what business do you have on those islands at this point? No one's going for vacation right now. If you're visiting a relative, the relative can meet you at the bridge and vouch for you /allow you in on his pass.

I don't think so. I have a good bit of family in Wilmington (and many of my friends and coworkers have family there too). Of those who chose to stay, finances were not mentioned as a factor. Not at all.

They say they want to stay because they want to be present to "fix things" immediately (and that's not unrealistic -- one of my family members had a tree "leaning" towards the house after the storm, and because he was home, he was able to get someone to take it down quickly. If he'd been away from home, the tree might've fallen on the house.) They stay because they fear looters.

But mostly they stay because they've stayed for previous (often smaller) hurricanes, and it's worked out okay, and they figure it'll be all right. And for MOST people, it will be all right -- after a couple scary-bad days -- but for someone, it's not going to be all right. Not at all. More than 30 people have died in this last hurricane.

I can't see a justification for not keeping your pet up to date on shots.

Yeah, finding and affording a hotel for an unknown number of nights can be expensive, but being injured in the hurricane is expensive too. Shelters are free and widely available; I've helped with setting them up (for tornadoes, not hurricanes, but I'm going to assume they're similar).

Looting is a problem in situations like this, but -- as you say -- insurance will replace things. They can't replace your spouse or your child.

I'm sure some families are genuinely making all the right financial choices and still aren't able to save, but -- truthfully -- most of us have some fluff in our budgets. Cable TV, eating out, lottery tickets. All but the poorest of us could put away a few dollars a week, and after a while it'll add up. Saving an emergency fund -- for most of us -- is possible.

Well I wasn’t trying to justify not having their pets shots up to date but the fact remains. If they aren’t up to date, they just aren’t. Also, here, a lot of people give their dogs their shots themselves. No shot record, nothing to get from the vet. I guess they could keep their receipts, I don’t know, we use the vet.

A lot of the people who don’t evacuate are the poorest.