"Do or do not. There is no Try." First Half-Marathon/Dark Side Training Journal

So last night was my first run in awhile on a treadmill. I usually avoid them because I hate them for run/walk intervals. But for any of you that run with heart trackers, I have a question - according to all the maximum heart rate calculators - I was running at 85-90% (165-170 bpm) of my max heart rate, and then when walking it would drop to low 80% (150-155). The thing is, I never felt super winded or like I was exerting a lot of effort. I as actually running slower than I do if I'm outside or on a track. I know the target heart rates vary for lots of people, and I've been known to get my heart rate up to 130-140 during a panic attack, but wasn't sure if this was a fairly common occurrence for people who's hearts beat naturally a little bit faster. Should I try to base my training on my heart rate, or stick to training by how I feel?
 
My advice would be to collect more data. Keep seeing your connection between effort, HR, and environmental conditions (like treadmill or temp). In the end though, I would venture to guess you want your HR a little lower during your run portions of run/walk dependent on the type of workout you were trying to do. What's a recent race time and what pace were you training at?
 
My advice would be to collect more data. Keep seeing your connection between effort, HR, and environmental conditions (like treadmill or temp). In the end though, I would venture to guess you want your HR a little lower during your run portions of run/walk dependent on the type of workout you were trying to do. What's a recent race time and what pace were you training at?

I haven't ran a race in a couple of years (pre-baby), but it was 5k at 29:56. I was training at around an 10:30 - 11:30 minute/mile. We had a 3 mile loop near our house I would do 3x a week and would usually finish in less than 35 minutes. But this was continuous running, I decided to do the run/walk intervals to get back into the swing of things now.
 
If you were still at a fitness level of a 29:56 5k, then I'd venture to guess your average paces would be somewhere around these:

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I would venture to guess that a HR on the lower side for you (thus an effort of OMG this is easy) would be done at paces around a 12:11-13:02 min/mile. How does this compare to your run with a bpm in the 160-170s during the run and 150s during the walk (was it around a 12-13 min/mile)? If you feel as if your fitness is no longer at around a 30 min 5k, then the paces with a lower HR would be even slower than a 13:02 min/mile.
 


Yes, I am definitely not at that fitness level anymore (though I hope I'll be closer to that once race day rolls around). I was running at a 12 minute mile in the 160-170s, and then walking at a 20 minute mile. Would it make sense to slow my running pace, but extend my intervals? (i.e. run 13:30 pace at a 90/30?) At least until I build up some more cardiovascular endurance?

I'm really trying to not make this about a time goal, but I'd love to be able to finish under 3 hours, do you think that's doable?
 
Yes, I am definitely not at that fitness level anymore (though I hope I'll be closer to that once race day rolls around). I was running at a 12 minute mile in the 160-170s, and then walking at a 20 minute mile. Would it make sense to slow my running pace, but extend my intervals? (i.e. run 13:30 pace at a 90/30?) At least until I build up some more cardiovascular endurance?

I'm really trying to not make this about a time goal, but I'd love to be able to finish under 3 hours, do you think that's doable?

If I were you, this is how I would proceed:

1) For the next 4-5 runs, keep running at the same run/walk intervals and paces you had been. Continue to collect HR data that can be reviewed after the run is over, but don't pay attention to HR mid-run. Especially if your panic attack can induce increased HR (potentially stress of seeing a high HR number could cause the same effect superficially from running)
2) Ensure that your "max HR" is accurate by trying to run hard once (but for a relatively short duration like 3-5 min). It is entirely possible that you "max HR" if calculated using the antiquated 220-age could not be appropriate. There are several examples of runners whom HR greatly exceeds this value, and thus their HR seems high for an easy run even though it is completely appropriate. I would assume when doing this that your HR will be much greater than 160-170s, but let's see what happens.
3) If the HR stays the same for a 12:00 min/mile run pace, and your max HR seems accurate at what you've previously calculated, then it would probably be wise to slow down even just a little bit on a similar type run in the future. I would venture to guess based on your pre-baby 5k time, that your endurance is just behind where it used to be and given more time training it will get back to the days of old. I would also guess that if everything remains the same and is accurate, that your lower HR in the "easy zone" would be more around a 15:00-16:00 min/mile while running. But since you are using run/walk, I would venture to guess something around a 14:30 min/mile with walk breaks would be considered an easy run by your body.

If all of this is accurate, and I'm taking a guess that your HR of 160-170 is similar to mine during a similar type race (5k), I would venture to guess your HM estimate is somewhere around a 2:51. This is a complete shot in the dark based on the limited data, but I'd venture to guess it's in the ball park. So, a goal of sub-3 for Dark side seems reasonable as long as you keep up consistent training.
 
So this week was a little rough training wise, but I got all of my runs in, so that's a good thing!

Week 5 Training

Tuesday - 30 minute run. Finished 30 minutes at 1/1 intervals and an average 15 minute/mile. I was on a treadmill, so slower than I normally run. I forgot how much I hate running on a treadmill! It didn't help that it was hot in the gym I was running in and I had forgotten my water bottle.

Thursday - 30 minute run. Finished 30 minutes keeping the 1/1 intervals and averaged 13:30 min/mile. This run was back on the indoor track and felt pretty good.

Sunday - 5 mile run planned/5 miles finished! Total time was 1:14 so a 14:40 min/mile average. This is officially the furthest I've ever run consecutively. I have to admit, my anxiety got the best of me on this run. I had caught a stomach bug so wasn't feeling 100%, but I made myself get off the couch and go. I started at a 1run/2walk interval since I was a little dehydrated and wanted to go slow. Surprisingly, my pace was still at 13:30 min/mile for the first three miles even with the extended walking interval. After I hit the 3 mile mark, I really struggled mentally with this one and noticed a couple of heart palpitations, which almost always trigger panic attacks for me. I started to feel panicky during one running interval so ending up walking the final 1.5 miles. My splits were:

Mile 1 - 13:34
Mile 2 - 13:43
Mile 3 - 13:35
Mile 4 - 15:25
Mile 5 - 16:54

So yeah, obviously not great. I should have slowed down for the first couple of miles, and maybe I wouldn't have felt so poorly at the end. However, I'm still really proud I finished. I could've turned around earlier, or took the shortcut home so I would've been short of 5 miles, but I wanted to prove to myself that I could keep going and be alright. I did have a couple moments of "there's no way I'll ever be able to run 13.1 miles." But I keep reminding myself that I don't have to run it tomorrow. I still have 3 months of training ahead of me and I just need to look at the same way as eating an elephant, bite by bite. :)
 


Congratulations on finishing, despite not being sure you could. The mental aspect of running is the hardest part of the whole thing, in my opinion.

:wave:Hi from PA (with a sister and brother in law in Wisconsin!). I just found your journal today but will be following along! I am running Dark Side too, and even though I'm not a beginning runner, I haven't run consistently in a couple of years so I'm doing the beginner training program too so we are doing the same distances each week.
 
Congratulations on finishing, despite not being sure you could. The mental aspect of running is the hardest part of the whole thing, in my opinion.

:wave:Hi from PA (with a sister and brother in law in Wisconsin!). I just found your journal today but will be following along! I am running Dark Side too, and even though I'm not a beginning runner, I haven't run consistently in a couple of years so I'm doing the beginner training program too so we are doing the same distances each week.

Hi and thanks! I really like the plan so, and I haven't been too sore/achy at all after the runs yet, although I'm sure that's coming. The 30 minute maintenance runs are also much easier to manage with work, school, and a toddler at home :) Since the only thing I'm concerned with is finishing, I've really enjoyed it so far.
 
So this week was a lot better than last! I changed my runs up to Wednesday, Friday to accommodate my work/school schedule and I think I'm going to keep that schedule for the most part with my long run on Sundays. It just seems to work better for me.

Wednesday - 30 min run. 30 minutes/2.1 miles completed. So as I've mentioned before, I've had an anxiety disorder and running is a way I desensitize myself to some of the sensations that usually trigger panic attacks for me. I talked with my therapist about the heart palpitations and anxiety I was feeling and her suggestion was to not slow down and keep pushing instead (Note: I've had multiple check-ups and am for all intents and purposes completely healthy, so pushing more is not a health risk for me). So for this run, I did. I was on a treadmill again, which was terrible, so decided to stop my intervals halfway through and just run the last 16 minutes. I didn't go any faster, but I did run continuously for 16 minutes which felt pretty good.

Friday - 30 min run. 2.3 miles completed at a 13 min/mile avg. pace. I switched up my intervals for this run to 90/60 and it seemed to go pretty well. Sped up a little but still felt really good.

Sunday - 6.5 miles planned/6.5 miles completed. I'll be honest, I was dreading this run. After my terrible 5 miler last week, I was worried this would be more of the same, but it wasn't at all. It actually felt really, really good. It was a balmy 26 degrees here, so I did this run outside. The sun was shining and I went back to my 1/1 intervals. I finished in 1:27, so for an average of 13:23 min/mile. My splits were:

Mile 1: 13:08
Mile 2: 13:11
Mile 3: 13:27
Mile 4: 13:31
Mile 5: 13:36
Mile 6: 13:30
Last .5: 6:43

All in all, I was really, really happy with this run. It felt good, I didn't panic and actually enjoyed myself. Half-way to 13!

And in non-training news, we bought our WDW tickets so we can connect them to MDE and get our fastpasses set up as soon as our window opens! We're getting closer!!
 
So this week was a lot better than last! I changed my runs up to Wednesday, Friday to accommodate my work/school schedule and I think I'm going to keep that schedule for the most part with my long run on Sundays. It just seems to work better for me.

Wednesday - 30 min run. 30 minutes/2.1 miles completed. So as I've mentioned before, I've had an anxiety disorder and running is a way I desensitize myself to some of the sensations that usually trigger panic attacks for me. I talked with my therapist about the heart palpitations and anxiety I was feeling and her suggestion was to not slow down and keep pushing instead (Note: I've had multiple check-ups and am for all intents and purposes completely healthy, so pushing more is not a health risk for me). So for this run, I did. I was on a treadmill again, which was terrible, so decided to stop my intervals halfway through and just run the last 16 minutes. I didn't go any faster, but I did run continuously for 16 minutes which felt pretty good.

Friday - 30 min run. 2.3 miles completed at a 13 min/mile avg. pace. I switched up my intervals for this run to 90/60 and it seemed to go pretty well. Sped up a little but still felt really good.

Sunday - 6.5 miles planned/6.5 miles completed. I'll be honest, I was dreading this run. After my terrible 5 miler last week, I was worried this would be more of the same, but it wasn't at all. It actually felt really, really good. It was a balmy 26 degrees here, so I did this run outside. The sun was shining and I went back to my 1/1 intervals. I finished in 1:27, so for an average of 13:23 min/mile. My splits were:

Mile 1: 13:08
Mile 2: 13:11
Mile 3: 13:27
Mile 4: 13:31
Mile 5: 13:36
Mile 6: 13:30
Last .5: 6:43

All in all, I was really, really happy with this run. It felt good, I didn't panic and actually enjoyed myself. Half-way to 13!

And in non-training news, we bought our WDW tickets so we can connect them to MDE and get our fastpasses set up as soon as our window opens! We're getting closer!!

Good job getting it done. The weather this weekend was pretty nice for running. Good job with the 6.5, pretty much half way there.
 
Following along. You have a lot of things on your plate between work, school, family life, ect! I'm both impressed and motivated that you make time to do all of those things. Best of luck to you!
 
Joining in! It seems like you are making really good progress and congrats on a strong 6.5 mile run. We've all had those bad runs where we don't think we can finish it (like your 5-miler) and I find they are often followed by a really good run (like your 6.5-miler). Well done and looking forward to reading more!
 
Following along. You have a lot of things on your plate between work, school, family life, ect! I'm both impressed and motivated that you make time to do all of those things. Best of luck to you!

Thanks! I definitely have to give major props to my husband. He's super supportive of everything and picks up the slack (and bathtimes) when I need it.
 
So this week was pretty good running wise. I've split up my intervals to 1:30/1 on the weekday runs and then back to 1/1 on the long runs. I'm slowly building speed, which wasn't necessarily intentional, but still feels good.

Wednesday - 30 minutes; ~2.4 miles. This was a good run, and my first mile was 12:31 which was one of my fastest miles yet. I noticed on this run that my arch was starting to bother me on both feet.

Friday - 30 minutes; ~2.3 miles. Another solid run, but the arch pain was becoming much more of an annoyance. I have two pairs of running shoes, one from pre-baby and another I bought in the same brand/style but a "model year" newer. The newer ones are the ones that are causing issues, blisters, etc. and I found myself in more pain after the 30 minute run than last weeks 6.5 miler in my old shoes. So I decided to go to a running store to try and sort it out. Turns out, the brand I had ordered had changed their sizes slightly and I probably needed to be in a half size larger (feet also could've gotten bigger during pregnancy, one of those delightful side effects no one tells you about until you're already pregnant :rotfl2:). So I tried on about a million different pairs and found another by the same brand that I liked best. So fingers crossed those do the trick!

Sunday - 3 miles. This was my first run in my new shoes, and I was super excited to get out there! They felt MUCH better than my other "new" shoes but still not perfect :(. I think I just need to tighten the laces a bit more next time. I stopped halfway to tighten on the foot that was causing me issues and it seemed to do the trick. I went back to 1/1 intervals and actually sped up:cool1:. Splits were:

Mile 1: 12:21
Mile 2: 12:02
Mile 3: 12:28

All in all, it's really fun to see my cardiovascular endurance and times improve and finish runs without feeling awful afterwards. I'm feeling more confident that I'm going to be able to finish AND enjoy myself at Dark Side :)
 
Following!

All in all, it's really fun to see my cardiovascular endurance and times improve and finish runs without feeling awful afterwards. I'm feeling more confident that I'm going to be able to finish AND enjoy myself at Dark Side :)

That's really the trick, isn't it? You want to be well-trained enough to finish and enjoy the whole experience at the same time. We can do it!
 
So this was another solid week of training, even with a sick little guy at home.

Wednesday - 30 minute run/~2.5 miles. This run felt really good. I went to 1:30/1:00 intervals and sped up a little bit. My new shoes were still a little tricky, but I changed up the lacing and they started fitting much better.

Friday - 30 minute run/2.3 miles so a little over a 13 minute mile. I did this run outside, in the dark, just to make sure I got it in. Other than that it was a pretty unremarkable training run.

Sunday - 8 miles. Officially the longest I've ever run. This run was great up until about 6.5 when I started to start feeling it in my legs and getting tired. I hung in there though and finished strong. I dropped back to 1/1 intervals in an attempt to slow down, but still had a pretty fast (for me) run. This was the first run I felt really tired and sore after, but I tried to keep moving and stretching afterwards. it was also the first run in awhile I had a mini-panic attack after. I pay way to close to any odd sensations post run, so things like a flushed face or an increased heart rate (obviously both totally normal after a run) can trigger a panic attack. But I got through it, pretty quickly post-run and overall felt pretty confident about actually being able to finish this thing! My splits were:

Mile 1 - 12:46
Mile 2 - 13:13
Mile 3 - 12:44
Mile 4 - 13:00
Mile 5 - 13:13
Mile 6 - 12:58
Mile 7 - 12:48
Mile 8 - 13:03

I will definitely need to slow down for my longer runs in the future. There's no way I could've kept up that pace for another 5 or 6 miles which my training plan has me doing. But overall, I'm pretty happy with how things have been going so far. If you'd told me two months ago I'd be up to running 8 miles already, I wouldn't have thought it was possible, but today - I did!
 
This week wasn't great for running. I caught my son's cold, so wasn't feeling up to running on Wednesday, so I skipped that 30 minute run.

Friday - 30 minute run. Still didn't feel great for this run, and my phone was broken so I had no music :(. So for this one, I turned off my run/walk intervals and just ran until I couldn't, and then walked until I wanted to run. I slowed down a bit and did 2.1 miles in 30 minutes.

Sunday - 3 mile run. Beautiful weather for a run in Minnesota! It felt amazing out. I got this mile done in an average 13 min/mile. It felt good, but I almost slipped and fell due to people who clearly hadn't shoveled or put down salt on their sidewalk all winter :mad: So I managed to pull something in my shoulder trying to catch myself. Luckily, it's just a little sore, so no permanent damage.

I'm a little nervous already for the 9.5 miler next weekend, but just keep trying to focus on one day at a time!
 
This week wasn't great for running. I caught my son's cold, so wasn't feeling up to running on Wednesday, so I skipped that 30 minute run.

Friday - 30 minute run. Still didn't feel great for this run, and my phone was broken so I had no music :(. So for this one, I turned off my run/walk intervals and just ran until I couldn't, and then walked until I wanted to run. I slowed down a bit and did 2.1 miles in 30 minutes.

Sunday - 3 mile run. Beautiful weather for a run in Minnesota! It felt amazing out. I got this mile done in an average 13 min/mile. It felt good, but I almost slipped and fell due to people who clearly hadn't shoveled or put down salt on their sidewalk all winter :mad: So I managed to pull something in my shoulder trying to catch myself. Luckily, it's just a little sore, so no permanent damage.

I'm a little nervous already for the 9.5 miler next weekend, but just keep trying to focus on one day at a time!
It took me a while to understand this, but Jeff Galloway often talks about you cannot run the long runs slow enough. While I don't think that means you should run the long runs at a 20 minute per mile pace, he says that the main reason of the long runs is to continue to push the boundaries of your endurance. So finishing the long runs no matter how slow (relatively speaking) will accomplish the primary purpose of the long run.

And even having finished the Rebel Challenge the last 3 years, I'm still "dreading" next week's 9.5 mile run.
 

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