DVC has stopped returning borrowed points to original use year

Cyberc1978

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Totally different situation. In your example, that would be John Doe's fault for forgetting his banking window. No different if there was no coronavirus. That's why if you have a UY after June, you better consider banking those points ASAP. In the real world situation we are in, people with June UYs didn't forget anything (like your John Doe did). The parks closed down during the period in which they had reservations, which happened to also be after their banking window had already past. It's no one's fault, but Disney has the power to do something for people in that situation. We are not talking about every DVC member here, just people in that situation.
Even though its a different situation seen from John Doe's side one is able to get DVC to break the rules but others are not. Maybe John D forget because he had been hospitalized due to the Corona. So en theory he could of course have done it before he got sick. Others could just have rescheduled once they heard of the Corona in December 2019. In hindsight many should have done things differently but we didn't and weren't supposed to.

Point is stuff happens and its not our fault and as all points are equal and should therefore be treated equally. If you break the rules for 1 you need to do it for everyone.
 

mgarbowski

Mouseketeer
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
I see your point, but I have to disagree. In your situation, you are not getting blindsided by the situation. You have time to decide if you need to cancel your trip and bank those points. That window has not come and gone yet for you. If you roll the dice and keep the reservation, go past the banking window, and then find out the resorts will remain closed? Well, that was a gamble you took and lost.
Why do people keep responding as if I'm making an equity argument and am asking to be saved from a bad decision? I explicitly said more than once if they do not extend the banking deadline I will cancel the reservation in timely fashion and bank. I explicitly said I accept that I am likely to lose my already banked points from last year and consider that appropriate. I also never suggested they retroactively amend the banking deadline after it passes, so telling me I must accept the consequences of whatever I decide when the deadline comes is off the point. I agree. For at least the third time: If they don't extend I will cancel my reservation and bank before the deadline, and I think most people in the same position will do the same. That's explicitly part of my point.

I know the boards are filled with people making equitable and fairness arguments about DVC. But my posts on this are free from words like fairness, justice, equity, gripe, or right and wrong. But people read my posts as if I am making that type of argument also. Is this really that unclear and hard to understand?

Let me try one last time: what I am making is a cold and rational (yet I admit possibly wrong) efficiency argument: asking people to guess our public health status 4 months out is counterproductive under the circumstances, and will leave DVC with an unusual number of cancelled reservations and empty rooms they are unlikely to fill if the health situation does improve, and an excessive number of points banked into 2021. As a result, it is in DVC's interest to extend the deadline prospectively. Maybe that's wrong. It involves predicting the future, which nobody does well. If you disagree with my analysis, I'm interested in hearing why. I think when restrictions lift people will be wary of travel and short on funds and not rushing to fill the rooms that are available from the reservations people like me cancel out of caution. I think people with existing reservations have sunk costs we don't want to lose like prepaid flights and if restrictions lift we are more likely to keep to a previously booked trip than are people potentially booking new trips. Maybe you think when restrictions lift there will be so much pent up demand that those people will book the newly available rooms and more than compensate for the cancellations. There may be other reasons I am not considering or holes in my logic I am mising. But fairness has nothing to do with it. Either I am right about how the balance of cancelled reservations and new reservations plays out, or I am wrong.

Finally and for the record: I am not blindsided. My situation is not unfair. I am being treated according to the terms of my contract and DVC bylaws. I do not expect to be saved from a bad gamble of not banking. That is an argument I not only never made, I never even hinted at, and I directly said I will do the opposite. I simply believe it is in the interest of DVC to extend the banking deadline. If I'm wrong, or if management does not agree and extend, so be it. That's just how it goes.
 

Sandisw

DVC Forums
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Why do people keep responding as if I'm making an equity argument and am asking to be saved from a bad decision? I explicitly said more than once if they do not extend the banking deadline I will cancel the reservation in timely fashion and bank. I explicitly said I accept that I am likely to lose my already banked points from last year and consider that appropriate. I also never suggested they retroactively amend the banking deadline after it passes, so telling me I must accept the consequences of whatever I decide when the deadline comes is off the point. I agree. For at least the third time: If they don't extend I will cancel my reservation and bank before the deadline, and I think most people in the same position will do the same. That's explicitly part of my point.

I know the boards are filled with people making equitable and fairness arguments about DVC. But my posts on this are free from words like fairness, justice, equity, gripe, or right and wrong. But people read my posts as if I am making that type of argument also. Is this really that unclear and hard to understand?

Let me try one last time: what I am making is a cold and rational (yet I admit possibly wrong) efficiency argument: asking people to guess our public health status 4 months out is counterproductive under the circumstances, and will leave DVC with an unusual number of cancelled reservations and empty rooms they are unlikely to fill if the health situation does improve, and an excessive number of points banked into 2021. As a result, it is in DVC's interest to extend the deadline prospectively. Maybe that's wrong. It involves predicting the future, which nobody does well. If you disagree with my analysis, I'm interested in hearing why. I think when restrictions lift people will be wary of travel and short on funds and not rushing to fill the rooms that are available from the reservations people like me cancel out of caution. I think people with existing reservations have sunk costs we don't want to lose like prepaid flights and if restrictions lift we are more likely to keep to a previously booked trip than are people potentially booking new trips. Maybe you think when restrictions lift there will be so much pent up demand that those people will book the newly available rooms and more than compensate for the cancellations. There may be other reasons I am not considering or holes in my logic I am mising. But fairness has nothing to do with it. Either I am right about how the balance of cancelled reservations and new reservations plays out, or I am wrong.

Finally and for the record: I am not blindsided. My situation is not unfair. I am being treated according to the terms of my contract and DVC bylaws. I do not expect to be saved from a bad gamble of not banking. That is an argument I not only never made, I never even hinted at, and I directly said I will do the opposite. I simply believe it is in the interest of DVC to extend the banking deadline. If I'm wrong, or if management does not agree and extend, so be it. That's just how it goes.
I think they could extend the banking deadline -- my proposal would be two months -- with limited impact on point carry-over. It could even be favorable. Here is my personal example. I am in the September use year and have to bank by April 30. My trip is in August, just before the use year ends, with roughly a 50-50 split between already banked points and points that could be banked. If the trip cannot happen I lose the previously banked points no matter what and I am fully resigned to that, and think it a reasonable result given the contract, the program, what I bought, and extraordinary circumstances. Tough luck but that's how it goes.

But, if there is no certainty by late April as to when travel can resume, and the banking date is not extended, I will cancel the booking, and salvage the bankable points before April ends. That's the conventional wisdom as the best course of action and I agree. If they extend the deadline, then either (1) the situation remains grim and I bank in June instead of April, or (2) the pandemic subsides and we can take our trip, which means I keep the booking, don't bank any additional points, and remove points from circulation for 2021. If they do not extend the deadline and the danger passes, then DVC ends up most likely with an empty room in August and a cancelled trip and me with extra points in 2021. It's pretty much win-win to extend the banking deadline so people must bank 2 months before the UY ends instead of 4. Four months is a reasonable deadline under normal circumstances. Making owners predict 4 months out if they will be able to travel under these circumstances is not realistic, and owners like me will react by being extra cautious. DVC management is entitled to hold to the standard deadline, but I'm not sure it is the best course of action for the program as a whole. I realize this seems counterintuitive, but I think it's right. If you believe I’m wrong I’m open to being convinced otherwise.
I will speak for myself, but the last line of your original post does invite People to share thoughts opposite of what you posted,

Since many posters will read a post and replay immediately, without seeing any updates you may have posted, it could be why people are replying the way they are,
 
  • DVCSunDevil

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Mar 1, 2020
    I have emailed DVC on this and not heard back, I do NOT want to lose what I had. I had fully intended on using those points which was why they werent banked by my window, they were IN a reservation that I had intended on going on.
    I know...that's a tough spot. It's the same spot I am in. We decided that if Disney and the resorts are open, we are going for our April 12 check in. If they do indeed keep everything closed in April, then they had better put our points back into their original UY (June 2020). If they don't, I will be pi**ed. Especially since they were letting people do exactly that up until last week.
     

    DVCSunDevil

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Mar 1, 2020
    Even though its a different situation seen from John Doe's side one is able to get DVC to break the rules but others are not. Maybe John D forget because he had been hospitalized due to the Corona. So en theory he could of course have done it before he got sick. Others could just have rescheduled once they heard of the Corona in December 2019. In hindsight many should have done things differently but we didn't and weren't supposed to.

    Point is stuff happens and its not our fault and as all points are equal and should therefore be treated equally. If you break the rules for 1 you need to do it for everyone.
    Of course John D would see it that way. He is the one who forgot to bank his points. The guy would have had at least 6 weeks to bank his points depending on his UY (6 weeks if August UY, way more than that for later UYs). Every situation is different. A person who has ample amount of time to bank points and doesn't is in a completely different situation than those who literally were blindsided with resort closures after their banking deadline passed. And let's be real, everyone that has Disney reservations is excited for the trip. You would have to live under a rock to not know what is going on with Disney. With all this is going down and the cost of a Disney trip there is no way someone is going to "forget" to cancel and bank those points.
     

    we"reofftoneverland

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 5, 2015
    It is starling to me to hear people saying those who will lose points are just out of luck. This is a dvc problem, not just a problem for people with April- June use years. We won’t lose any points, so this isn’t a self interested post. The entire membership should bear the cost here, not just people with a couple of UYs. And in doing so, I suspect we will barely feel it. There is more slack in the system than people think. Maybe certain weeks are hard to get, or certain resorts are harder to get, but we have never had a problem securing a reservation somewhere except once at the very last minute.
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    It is starling to me to hear people saying those who will lose points are just out of luck. This is a dvc problem, not just a problem for people with April- June use years. We won’t lose any points, so this isn’t a self interested post. The entire membership should bear the cost here, not just people with a couple of UYs. And in doing so, I suspect we will barely feel it. There is more slack in the system than people think. Maybe certain weeks are hard to get, or certain resorts are harder to get, but we have never had a problem securing a reservation somewhere except once at the very last minute.
    There could be potentially 6 weeks..or more..of closure. Thst is a lot of points in unused rooms that have to be absorbed,

    Disney may own enough points to absorb some of that, but since this has never happened, we reallt have no way of knowing the true fall out in terms of difficulty.

    I agree with you. This is about all of us. I know it’s not popular, but people still chose to book reservations during risky travel times of their UY. Granted, this isn’t normal, but as owner...who had a March reservation as well as a May & June..I want solutions for long term not short term, even if I lose out right now,

    Right now, people who have Aug UY and beyond can limit the loss of current UY points if they cancel now and bank. If one choses not to, it’s not fair IMO to then expect an exception.

    Im positive that DVCM is doing whatever they can do to make it work for the membership, and if they can save lost points without a crash of the system and lost points down the road, they will do it.
     

    TinkerBellLiz

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jun 18, 2014
    They were, as of this morning, returning borrowed points into 2020 UY or did for my mid April visit. I do currently have 2 other visits planned in November/December on both sides of a cruise and another week in January. My returned points will most likely be banked into 2021. Hopefully everyone with borrowed points experience the same! I am losing 4 points they wouldn’t bank forward on May 31st. We’ve made the decision not to travel between February and May. If we find we miss spring in Disney we’ll purchase points with a May/June banking deadline! :-)
     

    Grumpy by Birth

    “I AM smiling.”
    Joined
    May 27, 2017
    Right now, people who have Aug UY and beyond can limit the loss of current UY points if they cancel now and bank.
    This is us. September UY... cancelled our trip from earlier this month and banked about 40 UY19 points in advance of our banking deadline. So, now those are the only "at risk" points, but the risk is very low since they can be used until August 31, 2021. If WDW is still closed by then, we have worse problems on our hands!

    We have an October reservation using UY20 points, but if we have to cancel that, we have loads of time to bank all of our UY20 points (minus the banked ones) into UY21. Starting to give some serious thought to postponing our next visit until 2022 and having a big blow-out Grand Villa vacation!
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    This is us. September UY... cancelled our trip from earlier this month and banked about 40 UY19 points in advance of our banking deadline. So, now those are the only "at risk" points, but the risk is very low since they can be used until August 31, 2021. If WDW is still closed by then, we have worse problems on our hands!

    We have an October reservation using UY20 points, but if we have to cancel that, we have loads of time to bank all of our UY20 points (minus the banked ones) into UY21. Starting to give some serious thought to postponing our next visit until 2022 and having a big blow-out Grand Villa vacation!
    I am scheduled for mid May and my guests are now trying to decide if they want to cancel and go in the fall, I told them it’s up to them but to decide before Tuesday so I can bank some points. If they don’t, then we will ride it out until the end!
     

    DVCSunDevil

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Mar 1, 2020
    So just as an update. We saw late this afternoon that Disney is now closed into April. We had an April 12th reservation and we have a June UY. We borrowed 200 points from 2020 for the trip in April. Last week DVC would not let us move those 200 points back into 2020...we were told that since the park was going to be open April 1st that cancelling would be "our" decision. We called about 30 minutes ago and DVC did indeed let us now move our 200 points into their original UY of June 2020. I had a feeling that they would allow that once Disney was officially closed into April. It was the right move and I feel much better about DVC for doing it. I know some on here were against DVC allowing points to be banked for those whom the banking window had already passed, but DVC is definitely doing the right thing. It is not all DVC members that need this done, just those with April and June UYs with reservations in March and April. The system isn't going to melt down. Not everyone in that situation are going to be visiting Disney at the same time...it will be spread out. Thank you, DVC, for doing the right thing.
     

    KAT4DISNEY

    Glad to be a test subject
    Joined
    Mar 17, 2008
    It is starling to me to hear people saying those who will lose points are just out of luck. This is a dvc problem, not just a problem for people with April- June use years. We won’t lose any points, so this isn’t a self interested post. The entire membership should bear the cost here, not just people with a couple of UYs. And in doing so, I suspect we will barely feel it. There is more slack in the system than people think. Maybe certain weeks are hard to get, or certain resorts are harder to get, but we have never had a problem securing a reservation somewhere except once at the very last minute.
    Frankly it is to me too.
     

    GXIncognto

    Needs a money bin
    Joined
    Aug 12, 2014
    I just called in an hour ago to cancel my April 27-May 8 reservation that had points borrowed from my October 2020 use year in it. The CM said that the borrowed points would go back into the 2020 use year, but it could take extra time to do so. She said normally it takes 5 business days but speculated it could be 2 weeks before the points revert to their original use year. Currently my DVC account is showing this year's points plus all the borrowed points in my October 2019 use year.

    I'm going to try to book a trip at the end of September/beginning of October as soon as the points switch back, so hopefully it won't take so long that all availability dries up. Luckily I have enough points for a 1-bedroom, I'd be out of luck going for a studio.

    Oh and the CM had not heard anything about the parks being closed "indefinitely" now.
     

    fiskboso

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Dec 5, 2005
    I just cancelled my April 16-24th reservation and the CM told me that "based on our recent communication, vacation point reservations cancelled due to our recent resort closures, borrowed points will be returned to the original Use Year they were borrowed from automatically". I did this via chat to ensure I have a transcript.

    She did state that it could take up to 30 days for that movement to happen.

    Very pleased with this! Now to work on getting my AP extended!
     

    Popo

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Sep 3, 2008
    I just cancelled my DVC reservation for April 17-22. All points went back to this use year father than into holding account.
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    My group decided not to ride it out for our May trip so I canceled and then did online chat. All my borrowed 2020 points were put back in my Aug 2020 UY and I got our trip all set for October.

    The website still has not been updated with new information. The good news is now my AP will work as it expires October 6 but the extension will work out in my favor!
     

    ChimneyJim

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    May 27, 2012
    My group decided not to ride it out for our May trip so I canceled and then did online chat. All my borrowed 2020 points were put back in my Aug 2020 UY and I got our trip all set for October.

    The website still has not been updated with new information. The good news is now my AP will work as it expires October 6 but the extension will work out in my favor!
    So you had to request the points to be moved?
     

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