Have any other DVC owners lost their points because of Disney's closures?

Judique

Dis Veteran, Beach Lover at BWV, BCV, HHI, VB
Joined
Aug 1, 2003
In case they do, it wouldn’t be for 2020 UY as that is already started for some. They would wait for 2021 so it covers all members not just those which UY haven’t started yet.
I don't know about that. They could start it anytime and run it for a 1 year period thereby potentially impacting all members (that wanted to bank.)
 

Cyberc1978

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
I don't know about that. They could start it anytime and run it for a 1 year period thereby potentially impacting all members (that wanted to bank.)
lets say they started tomorrow and ran it for a year.

That would mean that owners of February and March 2020 points could bank this years points others could not. Then come 2021 and 3/30-2021 February and March owners could bank again.

That way February and March owners wouldn’t be impacted and we would again have a situation for DVC to deal with.

IMO DVC would go for a UY which haven’t started for anyone to ensure all members are impacted equally.
 

Judique

Dis Veteran, Beach Lover at BWV, BCV, HHI, VB
Joined
Aug 1, 2003
lets say they started tomorrow and ran it for a year.

That would mean that owners of February and March 2020 points could bank this years points others could not. Then come 2021 and 3/30-2021 February and March owners could bank again.

That way February and March owners wouldn’t be impacted and we would again have a situation for DVC to deal with.

IMO DVC would go for a UY which haven’t started for anyone to ensure all members are impacted equally.
I would hope they find a way to get the problem solved sooner, rather than later.
 
  • Jelly563

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Mar 28, 2015
    I called about my upcoming vacation (256 pts). I was told that all but 60pts were salvageable. I am a relatively new owner (April use yr) that doesnt have a real strong grasp on use yrs. I booked last fall. It was the first available time frame open. I do know, for a fact, that I have never had points in holding and I never have any points left to bank. So I guess I'm losing 60.

    So worse case scenario, I guess I'm out about $500 in dues. I've had similar bar tabs. DVC is for my kids enjoyment. They have no idea what it costs and prob dont care anyway. Like the new commercials say, We are all in this together....
     

    gharter

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 3, 2004
    So, you are telling me that right now if you have a reservation booked to travel this week and you used points from an April 2019-2020 use year, you’d simply just lose all those points? That can’t be right. They can’t do that. Isn’t 2019-2020 considered last years use year? And 2020-2021 is CURRENT USE YEAR?
    If so, the new email from about an hour ago suggests the points will go into current use year (not last years use year)
    That is exactly what happens.
    Just called today because of that issue.
    Some of my points were June 2019 and some were june 2020. The June 2020 points went back into that year.
    My options for June 2019 - book a trip before that, rent them, transfer them to RCI (good for 2 years) or lose them.
    The person I talked to said upper management had decided they couldn't put expiring points into next year as that would overwhlem next year with to many points available.
    What happened isn't my fault and it isn't DVCs as the rules are very clear.
    It just sucks to end up losing points.
     

    Tony

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Apr 28, 2005
    That would mean that owners of February and March 2020 points could bank this years points others could not. Then come 2021 and 3/30-2021 February and March owners could bank again.

    That way February and March owners wouldn’t be impacted and we would again have a situation for DVC to deal with.

    IMO DVC would go for a UY which haven’t started for anyone to ensure all members are impacted equally.
    The primary problem - especially now we know the closure will be at least 10 weeks - is this need to match points against inventory. Invoking the no banking rule quickly means the problem is contained this year, maybe funded by some kind of payout against unused points based on the fact running costs for calendar year 2020 will be lower. Moving the no banking rule forward to 2021 would be counter to the situation that's arising, which is presumably going to be a natural shift of booking demand from this year to next as people are either cancelled by Disney or defer the bookings themselves.

    If anything, by 2021 they'll be desperate for people to bank into 2022 to reduce demand in what will already be a busy period with the 50th anniversary. This all presumes this doesn't become the new normal, of course.
     

    Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    lets say they started tomorrow and ran it for a year.

    That would mean that owners of February and March 2020 points could bank this years points others could not. Then come 2021 and 3/30-2021 February and March owners could bank again.

    That way February and March owners wouldn’t be impacted and we would again have a situation for DVC to deal with.

    IMO DVC would go for a UY which haven’t started for anyone to ensure all members are impacted equally.
    I think they could simply say we are suspending banking and or borrowing until further notice,

    It does not have to apply equally to all UYs or impact all owners equally. IMO, I think that is part of this that makes it hard to grasp because it’s not about people, it’s about points. It doesn’t have to be “fair” in that all owners take the same hit. Take me, I have 3 UYs...decisions could be made that effect my memberships differently!

    Right now, they know they would be dealing with 3 UYs who could be bankable. But, I would bet many of those owners aren’t banking this soon,

    So, if they’d decided beginning of May to make it effective immediately, you wouldn’t have that many points from Feb, Mar or April actually banked.
     

    gillep

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2009
    I think they could simply say we are suspending banking and or borrowing until further notice,

    It does not have to apply equally to all UYs or impact all owners equally. IMO, I think that is part of this that makes it hard to grasp because it’s not about people, it’s about points. It doesn’t have to be “fair” in that all owners take the same hit. Take me, I have 3 UYs...decisions could be made that effect my memberships differently!

    Right now, they know they would be dealing with 3 UYs who could be bankable. But, I would bet many of those owners aren’t banking this soon,

    So, if they’d decided beginning of May to make it effective immediately, you wouldn’t have that many points from Feb, Mar or April actually banked.
    Exactly what I was thinking so I spent the day taking care of my points from my two contracts (Feb UY and Aug UY).

    My Aug UY won't be impacted I have already booked my Aug 2020 UY trip, it used all my 2020 points, and my 2021 UY trip will use all my 2021 points, no banking or borrowing on that contract right now.

    My Feb UY, I had to cancel a May Aulani trip (three rooms) so I converted half of my November 2020 studio reservation to a 1 bedroom to use up all the 2019 points that I had banked into 2020, and I have now banked all of my remaining points from my Feb 2020 UY to 2021. Next year, instead of our usual plan to bank points forward, we are going to assume we will need to use those points and will plan on paying for my husband's family's trip with points instead of cash, pending availability of course. It is the best I can do given the uncertainty.
     

    LAX

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 13, 2016
    lets say they started tomorrow and ran it for a year.

    That would mean that owners of February and March 2020 points could bank this years points others could not. Then come 2021 and 3/30-2021 February and March owners could bank again.

    That way February and March owners wouldn’t be impacted and we would again have a situation for DVC to deal with.

    IMO DVC would go for a UY which haven’t started for anyone to ensure all members are impacted equally.
    I think the bolded will be difficult to achieve in practice. While the same rule can apply to everyone equally, the impact will be felt differently because of other factors such as seasonal variability, personal commitments, etc.

    LAX
     

    Fred M

    DIS Dad #860
    Joined
    Jul 1, 2019
    Paying out a few million in resort stays is nothing compared to the hundreds of millions at stake with the bad timeshare reputation. I would be more than happy with some free All Star vouchers or Moderate vouchers. Something is better than the nothing we are gong to get.
    If I had to guess what DVC is going to do, it’s vouchers. For people who lose points, refunding maintenance fees is an option until the pool of owners gets too big and they don’t want to hemorrhage that much cash. As someone else said, allowing people to bank again hits a breaking point when the points available to owners exceeds capacity for the resorts. To save face, and encourage future sales, I think they give those owners things that doesn’t cost them a lot—vouchers for upgraded rooms (availability permitting), free meals on your next resort stay, merchandise, making a deal with Parks for park tickets, priority reservations, etc.

    Doing nothing will only tank future DVC sales.

    My wife and I had a May 2020 WDW vacation planned, but for reasons unrelated to COVID-19, we had to cancel. To avoid losing our banker December use year points from last year, we booked a May and July stay at Disneyland Hotel. There will be enough of an opportunity to use those points by November if the parks reopen. But if they stay closed into August, it will be a different ball game.

    They will do something, but it just won’t involve cash out of pocket for DVC or flooding the market with even more points.
     

    Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    I think the bolded will be difficult to achieve in practice. While the same rule can apply to everyone equally, the impact will be felt differently because of other factors such as seasonal variability, personal commitments, etc.

    LAX
    Exactly, Again, DVCM isn’t gong to look at this from the view of owners but keep It to the level of points and rooms,

    I can’t imagine decisions being made based On which owners may take a hit,

    It really does boil down to the math, We lost this many rooms, thats this many points, and now how can we absorb those points,

    Figure out how long it will take to get back to the point we were before March 20th when resorts closed.

    Once they know that, they will put in the policies that achieve that.
     

    LAX

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 13, 2016
    I can see how stop borrowing points can help with easing demands on more immediate room inventory, but I fail to understand how stop banking points would help, though. Wouldn't banking points (with current rules in place) actually help spread out the demands for rooms into the future?

    LAX
     
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    Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    If I had to guess what DVC is going to do, it’s vouchers. For people who lose points, refunding maintenance fees is an option until the pool of owners gets too big and they don’t want to hemorrhage that much cash. As someone else said, allowing people to bank again hits a breaking point when the points available to owners exceeds capacity for the resorts. To save face, and encourage future sales, I think they give those owners things that doesn’t cost them a lot—vouchers for upgraded rooms (availability permitting), free meals on your next resort stay, merchandise, making a deal with Parks for park tickets, priority reservations, etc.

    Doing nothing will only tank future DVC sales.

    My wife and I had a May 2020 WDW vacation planned, but for reasons unrelated to COVID-19, we had to cancel. To avoid losing our banker December use year points from last year, we booked a May and July stay at Disneyland Hotel. There will be enough of an opportunity to use those points by November if the parks reopen. But if they stay closed into August, it will be a different ball game.

    They will do something, but it just won’t involve cash out of pocket for DVC or flooding the market with even more points.
    If DVD feels this will impact sales, they would most likely need to tap into marketing dollars which I see being given to potential buyers and not current owners,

    All the other monetary options you mention, if paid for by DVC would have to be absorbed by owners. and I just don’t know how that would legally work,

    For Disney to pick up the tab, DVCM would have to negotiate with them. It’s one of the reasons why DVC members are not given ticket discounts other than AP...because Parks and Resorts has no desire too.
     
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    mort1331

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 15, 2012
    For all those who are losing banked points and the ability to bank. And I am in this boat. If DVC was a reg TS with set weeks. We would be out those weeks SOOL. No way to put them whole. So my DVC i look at the same way. Do I want to be out 300 points of MF no. But wait for it the sting of the economy is going to be a hell of a alot worse. Prepare to be shut down for months. Not weeks.
     

    Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    I can see how stop borrowing points can help with easing demands on more immediate room inventory, but I fail to understand how stop banking points would help, though. Wouldn't banking points (with current rules in back) actually help spread out the demands for rooms into the future?

    LAX
    If they did it today, the typical number of 2019 and 2020 points banked into 2020/2021 would be limited,

    For example, as of today, Aug through Dec UYs are still able to bank 2019 points. If those don’t go into 2020, then it helps to cushion the blow from the borrowed points put back into 2020

    I think both banking and borrowing have to be suspended though so that for the next year is so, the number of points in any UY is exactly what should be there.

    Of course, all of this doesn’t mean points get saved, but rather spread out the loss across the board.

    The only option that they have...that has been shared,,,to use up points without additional rooms...is the creating of the 7 month non home resort charts
     

    Judique

    Dis Veteran, Beach Lover at BWV, BCV, HHI, VB
    Joined
    Aug 1, 2003
    They will do something, but it just won’t involve cash out of pocket for DVC or flooding the market with even more points.
    You are probably correct to a point here. Cash out of pocket for DVC = cash out of pocket from members.
     

    Judique

    Dis Veteran, Beach Lover at BWV, BCV, HHI, VB
    Joined
    Aug 1, 2003
    I think both banking and borrowing have to be suspended though so that for the next year is so, the number of points in any UY is exactly what should be there.
    I'll admit I haven't thought this through but if borrowing was not suspended, first you would have to find available inventory to make borrowing worthwhile, wouldn't you? I've never just borrowed to borrow. I only borrow to book a reservation I've chosen to create. If the room is there, why not allow borrowing? I've got so many things on my mind right now I may not be thinking about this aspect clearly, so someone please state what is not obvious to me.
     

    _auroraborealis_

    I like marshmallows. And adult beverages.
    Joined
    Oct 18, 2015
    I don't know that THIS will tank DVC sales.

    A lot of buyers do zero research whatsoever and go solely on sales pitch to the signing line. See also the buyers who didn't understand Poly lacked 1BR units, the buyers who get shown BWV Standard points charts while buying whatever is now on sale, etc. etc.

    DIS users tend to be knowledgeable about DVC use, and some researchers who find it get lessons conveyed. But that is a minority of owners and buyers.
     

    Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    I'll admit I haven't thought this through but if borrowing was not suspended, first you would have to find available inventory to make borrowing worthwhile, wouldn't you? I've never just borrowed to borrow. I only borrow to book a reservation I've chosen to create. If the room is there, why not allow borrowing? I've got so many things on my mind right now I may not be thinking about this aspect clearly, so someone please state what is not obvious to me.
    No, you can’t borrow to just borrow. You have to have a reservation.

    For example, I am going to be booking a 5 night RIVera reservation next March near Easter for a friend, I currently have 92 points and will need to borrow about 30 to book that at 11 months,

    If I cant borrow, then I will only be able to book her 4 nights and book the 5th night with my SSR points.

    Now that will leave me with less RiV points in 2021, but that would be okay because I don’t need as many then,

    If I’m stuck with no borrowing, then I have more points in 2021 to use, which by then, we will have made up some of this.
     

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