Have any other DVC owners lost their points because of Disney's closures?

[Judique]

For all those who are losing banked points and the ability to bank. And I am in this boat. If DVC was a reg TS with set weeks. We would be out those weeks SOOL. No way to put them whole. So my DVC i look at the same way. Do I want to be out 300 points of MF no. But wait for it the sting of the economy is going to be a hell of a alot worse. Prepare to be shut down for months. Not weeks.

I was thinking about this analogy today and in my mind go back to when I took timeshare tours of Sheraton, Marriott, Hyatt and a few others before I joined DVC. I'm on the 'months' page with you. And, there will probably be lots of bargains coming up to get people to fly, to get people to actually go to a theme park. Look at all the room rate bargains in early 2000's. It will be much harder to get people to travel for awhile.

 

[Judique]

No, you can’t borrow to just borrow. You have to have a reservation.

Once I read this it quickly occurred to me that you can borrow to book something and then cancel, voila - you have borrowed points!

 

[Kidanifan08]

I think they could simply say we are suspending banking and or borrowing until further notice....
....I think that is part of this that makes it hard to grasp because it’s not about people, it’s about points. It doesn’t have to be “fair” in that all owners take the same hit....

I would think they would give a reasonable amount of notice if they were going to institute such a restriction. There are probably folks who have a stay currently booked “just in case it’s open” who may choose to cancel and book their points if there was a chance for a banking suspension. I know I would probably cancel my July trip that I booked today if banking were to be suspended May 1; it’s over 400 points I could use in 2021. I also think they probably can’t make a good decision about When to start something like this until the endpoint is in view. While this decision is about points, it’s Disney making the decision, so it is about people — some of their biggest supporters. this is not some fly-by-night timeshare company. If they choose to institute a suspension of banking and/or borrowing, then I think it should affect everyone equally, which would best be accomplished by a 12 month restriction period.

 

[Tony]

I don't know that THIS will tank DVC sales.

No. but it could have an impact on resales as there will be more sellers. So that, combined with a tanking economy is going to make it very hard to achieve the points valuations being asked for now for new developments. I bought BLT in the developer phase and expected the points value to be broadly flat for the first 15years or so. Am amazed that selling now (or at least 6 months back) would net me a profit.

 

[Sandisw]

I would think they would give a reasonable amount of notice if they were going to institute such a restriction. There are probably folks who have a stay currently booked “just in case it’s open” who may choose to cancel and book their points if there was a chance for a banking suspension. I know I would probably cancel my July trip that I booked today if banking were to be suspended May 1; it’s over 400 points I could use in 2021. I also think they probably can’t make a good decision about When to start something like this until the endpoint is in view. While this decision is about points, it’s Disney making the decision, so it is about people — some of their biggest supporters. this is not some fly-by-night timeshare company. If they choose to institute a suspension of banking and/or borrowing, then I think it should affect everyone equally, which would best be accomplished by a 12 month restriction period.

They could of course decide to any of a number of things. We don’t know. But, there is one correction and I know I keep saying it but it is not Disney who decides what happens. ,

It is DVCM, who is the agency, we as owner allow to act as our agent to make decisions on behalf of the owners and the membership,

Of course, points represent owners, and decisions will impact people.

But, the Timeshare laws and our POS requires them to certain things and one of them to balance points with demand, Now that they will have up to 10 weeks worth of extra points in a system, demand will be out of whack with rooms,

So, the decisions made have to achieve that goal first and to be honest, their legal obligation to me, as an owner,

Of course they will try to find a way to limit the harm to as many owners as possible, but that may not happen to the degree that people think it should.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

No. but it could have an impact on resales as there will be more sellers.

But a lot of direct buyers don't even know there is a resale market. A non-zero number that do like to post on Facebook about how resale should be stopped entirely. So I really don't think this impacts direct sales that much either.

It is another piece of that informed buyer vs. emotional buyer thing. And evidence suggests most DVC direct for the active resort (in this case, Riviera) are emotional buyers.

Recession is going to be the thing that screws up sales. And by the time we get out of that, this incident is unlikely to be even a blip on the radar of most buyers.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I think they could simply say we are suspending banking and or borrowing until further notice,

It does not have to apply equally to all UYs or impact all owners equally. IMO, I think that is part of this that makes it hard to grasp because it’s not about people, it’s about points. It doesn’t have to be “fair” in that all owners take the same hit. Take me, I have 3 UYs...decisions could be made that effect my memberships differently!

Right now, they know they would be dealing with 3 UYs who could be bankable. But, I would bet many of those owners aren’t banking this soon,

So, if they’d decided beginning of May to make it effective immediately, you wouldn’t have that many points from Feb, Mar or April actually banked.

IF one believe that DVC will be suspend banking wouldn’t it be a good idea to bank regardless of UY month your 2020 points NOW? This of course assumes you have already made whatever reservations you need in your 2020 UY.

 

[mrsg00fy]

The decision has already been made to NOT treat all points equally. Dvc allowed Allowed borrowed points for the Covid related cancellations to be Unborrowed. They allowed what we’re supposed to be final transactions to be reversed.
At the same time they are forcing Covid related cancellations with current use year points for April and June years to keep banking rules intact. This means that those of us with impacted reservations will essentially lose our points as there is no opportunity to reschedule. Dvc cancelled our reservations and is forcing the points to expire.
The points are not being treated equally. Some members have had their reservations cancelled and are being forced to sacrifice points for the good of the membership.

 

[MiddKid]

The decision has already been made to NOT treat all points equally. Dvc allowed Allowed borrowed points for the Covid related cancellations to be Unborrowed. They allowed what we’re supposed to be final transactions to be reversed.
At the same time they are forcing Covid related cancellations with current use year points for April and June years to keep banking rules intact. This means that those of us with impacted reservations will essentially lose our points as there is no opportunity to reschedule. Dvc cancelled our reservations and is forcing the points to expire.
The points are not being treated equally. Some members have had their reservations cancelled and are being forced to sacrifice points for the good of the membership.

Or, you could argue that all points ARE being treated equally with the current policy. Making exceptions would create inequalities.

Every DVC point can be used over the course of 3 years.

Banked points that are cancelled and soon to be expired could have been used over the course of three years.
Borrowed points that are cancelled and put back into their use year can be used over the course of three years.

I'd argue that putting borrowed points back simply eliminates the cancellation penalty. But those points retain their original value.

If banked points are extended then they can be used for longer than three years creating a situation where all points are not treated equally.

Does it stink? Sure does.

Just looking at it through a different lens...

 

[Sandisw]

IF one believe that DVC will be suspend banking wouldn’t it be a good idea to bank regardless of UY month your 2020 points NOW? This of course assumes you have already made whatever reservations you need in your 2020 UY.

If someone was worried, sure they could. Again we are all speculating what remedies they will put in place because we have no idea how many of each type of points are effected.

I think the writing is on the wall that opening won’t be before June 1st.

So DVCM has a much better idea on what exactly can be done.

I just think owners have to realize that we may not have answers quickly but also be prepared it’s not what we want to hear

 

[mrsg00fy]

Or, you could argue that all points ARE being treated equally with the current policy. Making exceptions would create inequalities.

Every DVC point can be used over the course of 3 years.

Banked points that are cancelled and soon to be expired could have been used over the course of three years.
Borrowed points that are cancelled and put back into their use year can be used over the course of three years.

I'd argue that putting borrowed points back simply eliminates the cancellation penalty. But those points retain their original value.

If banked points are extended then they can be used for longer than three years creating a situation where all points are not treated equally.

Does it stink? Sure does.

Just looking at it through a different lens...

I’m not sure if there is confusion here. I’m not talking about points that have already been banked. I’m talking about June 2019 use year points that have been used for an April 2020 reservation. If those points were not tied up in the April reservation they would have been banked by their banking deadline of 1/31 /20. Dvc wasn’t cancelling the April reservations at that time. I fully expected to take the trip. But Dvc closed the resort. I didn’t cancel. They cancelled. So I’d argue that I’m just suggesting that the banking window be extended by two months. It is a very minor exception to grant. Instead Current use year points are given no value and are just expected to be lost.

And I’d argue that Dvc allowing borrowed points to be unborrowed is absolutely an exception To the rules. It is actually a big exception. Borrowing is a final transaction according to Dvc rules. The owner chose to change the life of those points and move them to a different use year.

 

[Sandisw]

I’m not sure if there is confusion here. I’m not talking about points that have already been banked. I’m talking about June 2019 use year points that have been used for an April 2020 reservation. If those points were not tied up in the April reservation they would have been banked by their banking deadline of 1/31 /20. Dvc wasn’t cancelling the April reservations at that time. I fully expected to take the trip. But Dvc closed the resort. I didn’t cancel. They cancelled. So I’d argue that I’m just suggesting that the banking window be extended by two months. It is a very minor exception to grant. Instead Current use year points are given no value and are just expected to be lost.

And I’d argue that Dvc allowing borrowed points to be unborrowed is absolutely an exception To the rules. It is actually a big exception. Borrowing is a final transaction according to Dvc rules. The owner chose to change the life of those points and move them to a different use year.

We still don’t know yet if they plan To adjust banking rules. Currently no. But it could change

I don’t believe for one minute DVCM allowed the reversing of borrowing as a gesture of good will for members, They did it for one reason only and that was because they determined it was needed to counteract the loss of rooms,

Remember, they allowed it a few days and then stopped when they announced resorts closed, It was only reversed after a few days and IMO it was because they had figures to back up it would work with a 2 week closing.

They could just as easy next week say, we will only allow borrowed points to be put back certain UYs. They could decide to make no changes to cancellation policy, including holding. Or they could decide to adjust banking.

Until this is over and we know everything that will be done, this Is nothing more than one small piece of a much larger puzzle,

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

I'll admit I haven't thought this through but if borrowing was not suspended, first you would have to find available inventory to make borrowing worthwhile, wouldn't you? I've never just borrowed to borrow. I only borrow to book a reservation I've chosen to create. If the room is there, why not allow borrowing? I've got so many things on my mind right now I may not be thinking about this aspect clearly, so someone please state what is not obvious to me.

If DVC is already anticipating a deficit of room inventory, then allowing members to borrow points from the next UY to book a room this year results in even less availability for others to use their current UY points.

Once I read this it quickly occurred to me that you can borrow to book something and then cancel, voila - you have borrowed points!

Theoretically, you could exploit that loophole. But why would you want to? You'd be shortening the "shelf life" of those points unnecessarily.

It wouldn't make sense to borrow and cancel in order to move those points to the current UY "just in case." The only reason you would WANT to borrow is because you need those extra points for a reservation that requires more points than you have available in your current UY.

 

[DebbieB]

IF one believe that DVC will be suspend banking wouldn’t it be a good idea to bank regardless of UY month your 2020 points NOW? This of course assumes you have already made whatever reservations you need in your 2020 UY.

Only if you have February or March. April can bank on 4/1.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Only if you have February or March. April can bank on 4/1.

Until yesterday I thought that too but I decided to call MS since I had already booked my 2020 stay with my April and June contracts. I asked if I could bank the points (I couldn’t online) and sure that wasn’t a problem. So I decided to do it already and surely the points was banked.

My thinking was, why risk the points if a suspension was coming and since I had already used what I needed to use, I might as well do it.

 

[Judique]

Theoretically, you could exploit that loophole. But why would you want to? You'd be shortening the "shelf life" of those points unnecessarily.

It wouldn't make sense to borrow and cancel in order to move those points to the current UY "just in case." The only reason you would WANT to borrow is because you need those extra points for a reservation that requires more points than you have available in your current UY.

It would make sense if you were in the situation @Sandisw is in, where the fear of being not allowed to borrow looms and she has a reservation that she plans to borrow to fulfil once she gets to the window.

It would not make sense to do it as a just in case for no future already planned situation.

And, just to beat a dead horse, since the needed points were 30, I would find and book the smallest point cost reservation. Thus remaining points could be purchased as another alternative, if borrowing were suspended.

 

[momtwoboys]

Until yesterday I thought that too but I decided to call MS since I had already booked my 2020 stay with my April and June contracts. I asked if I could bank the points (I couldn’t online) and sure that wasn’t a problem. So I decided to do it already and surely the points was banked.

My thinking was, why risk the points if a suspension was coming and since I had already used what I needed to use, I might as well do it.

You have a June UY contract and were allowed to bank? Just asking, unless I missed something?

 

[Cyberc1978]

You have a June UY contract and were allowed to bank? Just asking, unless I missed something?

Yes I banked my June 2020 points to 2021.

 

[FSUSammy]

I'm watching closely to see what they allow or don't allow given the last email where they made it seem like they were considering doing something for those with points set to expire. We originally had a March trip planned using up 90 points. I only get 200 points a year so that's almost half right there. Obviously that trip was cancelled due to their closure. When I had initially talked to MS they made it seem like at least 50 points would be able to be banked to my 2020 UY. I would have lost 30 something points because those were banked points from 2018. I'm a June UY for reference. After that conversation they sent out several emails to everyone stating the opposite of what I was told. I kept my eye on May availability and was able to grab a booking for Memorial Day weekend. Essentially the last weekend we'd be able to use these points. I'm hoping they are reopened by then and if not I hope that by then they will have figured out the best way to make a bunch of us not just lose these points. Guess we will see what happens with those April UY folks that will be the first ones impacted by all of this.

 

[TCRAIG]

I’m losing 66 points due to an April reservation/June UY....not a lot but it still stings. I understand DVC’s dilemma about banking the points...I really hope they can come up with something that will ease the loss. For me personally, it doesn’t have to be much - a couple extra FPs and I would feel like my points weren’t a total waste...but that’s just me.