Just stop going

[mom2rtk]

Crowds do, I admit. But aside from jacking the prices, there's not a lot Disney could or should do about them.

They could start with not staffing down on those rare days the crowds actually are lower. That's entirely within their control.

 

[PSUGuy]

The point isn't that everything is the same, because obviously it's not. But this sentiment that it used to be so much better -- that the overall experience used to be so much higher -- simply isn't true.

Each of us must make this highly subjective judgement. I have and yes, it was better, to me, back when the items I mentioned that are not longer there, were there. Obviously things have not arrived at the point where we're going to stop going, we'll be there for 9 days in Oct and the whole family, 11 of us, are planning for Oct/Nov 2019. I'm not one of those who start 'complaining' threads but I will chime in to point out that a lot of great, unique entertainments have gone away since we started our yearly trips in 1999.

Bill From PA

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

So instead you decide what a better option is is to make a rant post attacking them in a different thread so they cannot defend themselves?

I'm not saying I don't agree. My stance is "if you aren't getting what you want out of it then don't go anymore" but I at least say it to the person which kinda gets them thinking about whether they really have "had enough" or are just complaining for the sake of complaining knowing full well they won't stop going.

 

[mom2rtk]

FPs (the ability to reserve a ride is a pretty good perk)

You've been around long enough to know some people see FP+ as a big takeaway. It's fine that you don't see it that way, but don't assume it's anything but an opinion, and that not everyone sees it the same way.

As a "bonus", that very ride reservation system you list as a benefit is being used to gather the data Disney is using to staff down on days with lower crowds predicted.

 

[paisleys]

This is true for me. I have only been going regularly (2-3 times a year) for about 10 years and I do feel like the crowds have gotten worse. I also agree that it's something you either accept or don't accept - complaining about crowds does not change anything. One of the many reasons I love Epcot is that it holds crowds well, certainly much better than MK or AK which are both parks that I need to leave by 11am or 12pm because I feel like I can barely move in them. Doing this works for me, and if it doesn't work for others, or if others aren't bothered by it, that's cool.

So true about Epcot! It has become the favorite of all of us, kids included. We did one long weekend where we only went there and it was much less stressful without MK. I also feel like it's super easy to get decent food and a nice place to sit outside with it. Plus there is Spice Road table, so easy to get in there without a reservation, I have no idea why it's never crowded because it's amazing.

 

[epcotobsessed]

Plus there is Spice Road table, so easy to get in there without a reservation, I have no idea why it's never crowded because it's amazing.

I know! How is this place not packed all the time? I am grateful it isn't, since I can always get a reservation, but don't understand either.

 

[Elle23]

Could it be possible...just maybe...that people are having legitimately bad experiences at WDW?

If so, what do you expect them to do? Are people seriously not allowed to express frustration and disappointment? Are they not allowed to come here and be truthful about their experiences?

I’m sorry, but this whole idea that Disney can do no wrong and we are all supposed to be happy and smiling and praising Disney no matter what is bordering on a cult mentality.

Perhaps people have had some bad experiences but hope for a better one next time (that would be me). Why are the only options to like it at all times or go away?

Could it be possible...just maybe...that there are things Disney needs to improve on? How will this ever happen if nobody is ever supposed to express an honest yet negative opinion or talk about bad experiences?

 

[Future_WorldPhonencian]

I agree, Ep is ideal for those crowded evenings now if they could add some more attractions in futureworld to even out crowds... getting outta MK after fireworks is bananas around main st and monorail/boat dock...I always thought AK was pretty good for crowds except at the choke point by everest/ kali and in between safari and festival of the lion king... i wonder how claustrophobic dhs will be late fall of 2019

 

[dreiwhit]

What magical time was she comparing it to? She's not old enough to remember WDW in any incarnation other than the present one.

She had been three times in the past two years. The two previous trips we made were her points of comparison.

And for the other poster, I had not said anything to her or expressed my displeasure at our trip. I actually encourage her and my son to educate themselves and form their own opinions. She came to this opinion strictly on her own. Maybe having to wait in FP lines for 30 minutes, getting very close to knocked down in a crowd, nearly getting trampled trying to get on a shuttle, and tired of having people bump into her at queue lines helped her form her own opinion?

But why are you trying to ruin other people's perception?

Sorry to ruin people's perception with my reality. I was once a person that loved Disney and longed for the next trip. But, I guess too much coffee counteracted the pixie dust because my eyes were opened on the last trip. Maybe I reached the limit of what I could stand? Maybe I realized that deep down, Disney didn't care if we had a good experience or not, as long as they got our money and kept us coming back while paying more for less. Maybe I realized that all Disney wants to do is to pack the park and doesn't care if we wait in line for much longer than we should. Maybe I realized that they're focused on cost cutting instead of guest experience.

Could it be possible...just maybe...that people are having legitimately bad experiences at WDW?

You are correct Elle23. Folks need to take a look at the reviews of WDW from non Disney sites. There are a lot of people out there that aren't too happy with Disney, its not just me. People can explain it away as "they didn't know how to plan for a trip" or "they needed to have better expectations" or whatever. But the fact is that when people have bad experiences, they don't willingly spend their good money there again. And, they don't recommend that people go there either.

I’m sorry, but this whole idea that Disney can do no wrong and we are all supposed to be happy and smiling and praising Disney no matter what is bordering on a cult mentality.

Spot on. I use a very blunt analogy with my wife to explain that some people will not think or talk badly about Disney no matter what Disney does, and then criticize those that do. I'm not going to repeat it, but its very appropriate.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

We've made three recent trips in the last almost three years. And during that time, I can see how things have changed, not for the better.

My 10 year old daughter told me at Epcot "Disney used to be magical. Now its an overcrowded amusement park." When a 10 year old Disney loving little girl says that, there is a problem.

She had been three times in the past two years. The two previous trips we made were her points of comparison.

And for the other poster, I had not said anything to her or expressed my displeasure at our trip. I actually encourage her and my son to educate themselves and form their own opinions. She came to this opinion strictly on her own. Maybe having to wait in FP lines for 30 minutes, getting very close to knocked down in a crowd, nearly getting trampled trying to get on a shuttle, and tired of having people bump into her at queue lines helped her form her own opinion?

I do think that tastes change overtime for a lot of people over varying ages.

At 8 she may have liked xyz about WDW, at 9 something else and now at 10 it's just not doing it for her (guessing the ages based on your recent trips comment).

Maybe she's more aware of time and her environment?

I mean bumping into people in lines has been happening forever and at all theme or amusement parks. But perhaps she was less aware of it at age 8 or 9. Mob mentality has also been occuring forever..heck I remember the movie premieres for Harry Potter and Twilight..yeah it could be rough especially after waiting outside in the heat or cold depending on the movie for hours and hours.

Objectively if I were to hear a 10 year old say it used to be magical and now it's an overcrowded theme park and especially after hearing she had been 3 times in almost the last 3 years I wouldn't put much stock into it at all really. Maybe it's just a case of taking someone too often. Sure some people can absolutely go every year even multiple times a year and then some can't. I'm one of those that can't. I don't want to go to WDW every year. I love variety and I love experiencing new things. Maybe it's a case of her growing up and experiencing the same place but with different eyes. IDK.

Disney is different than it was when I was a child, it's different than when I went in 2011 and will be different the next time I go when comparing it to my 2017 trip. I'm not in the Disney can do no wrong camp either just taking a different perspective to your comments.

 

[whiporee]

As a "bonus", that very ride reservation system you list as a benefit is being used to gather the data Disney is using to staff down on days with lower crowds predicted.

I know you believe this with all your heart. But there is no -- zero, nada -- evidence that it actually happens.

Some people, I know, much preferred FP-. I don't know of anyone who's said that FP altogether was a bad thing.

Sorry to ruin people's perception with my reality. I was once a person that loved Disney and longed for the next trip. But, I guess too much coffee counteracted the pixie dust because my eyes were opened on the last trip. Maybe I reached the limit of what I could stand? Maybe I realized that deep down, Disney didn't care if we had a good experience or not, as long as they got our money and kept us coming back while paying more for less. Maybe I realized that all Disney wants to do is to pack the park and doesn't care if we wait in line for much longer than we should. Maybe I realized that they're focused on cost cutting instead of guest experience.

Again, that's fine. As I said before, sounds like you and your family are making the right decision for you. But how does that vague list of complaints do anything for anyone else? Especially here. Are you trying to warn people against a WDW trip? Are you trying to convince them that Disney is just a money-grubbing pack of wolves and they'll have a better time anywhere else? What exactly is your point? That you're pissed? I get that -- you've been clear about it. That you think it's a waste of money? Roger. Or are you trying to tell people they should expect to be disappointed -- or are you trying to make them feel about the place the same way you feel?

Some people feel the need to "tell it like it is" when what they're really doing is crapping on other people's opinions and desires. You've not offered one concrete example of what went wrong, of what you're basing these grandiose proclamations of malfeasance on. Instead you're just saying bad things without evidence and hoping that someone believes you. You've got no evidence they're focused on cost cutting instead of customer experience. You've got no evidence they just want to pack the parks with as many people as possible, and no evidence they don't care about you're waiting in line. But you know what, someone will believe you. Someone will take your false narrative -- just like the one about them cutting capacity -- and run with it. In the process, it will discourage other people and they'll cancel a trip or enter the parks expecting disaster, and be looking for trouble around every corner, whether it's there or not.

And it's not reality. The myth is the one you're perpetuating -- that WDW is horrible and money grubbing and completely packed. That there are consistently 30 minute lines for FPs. That CMs are rude and unpleasant to guests. The people trample over you ever step of your trip and you can't move without bumping into someone. I'd bet that's not the totality of anyone's here's experience-- including your own. Bad things may have happened to you -- you may have had a bad trip. They happen, I've had them, too. But if you came back three times in two years then the first two times must not have been that bad. Or you're a masochist.

And spare us the analogy. No one here is an apologist -- plenty of people come down on WDW for things they disagree with. But they are specific complaints about things they wish were better, not vast theories about how bad the place sucks. The former can be strategized and solutions offered. The latter is just complaining.

 

[Future_WorldPhonencian]

My biggest issue with wdw is that it seems like half of the parks need more to disperse the crowds... i think disney works hard to make staffing at rides at a high thruput. They dont want to pay ppl to stand around when its not busy, thats just smart business. They adapt staffing constantly and sometimes they get it wrong.

Once SWGE opens DHS will still need more capacity and EP will have the same problem until at least 2021... i love things at all the parks but when we choose how to divide up our time we favor the parks with the “total package”

 

[Farro]

Could it be possible...just maybe...that people are having legitimately bad experiences at WDW?

If so, what do you expect them to do? Are people seriously not allowed to express frustration and disappointment? Are they not allowed to come here and be truthful about their experiences?

I’m sorry, but this whole idea that Disney can do no wrong and we are all supposed to be happy and smiling and praising Disney no matter what is bordering on a cult mentality.

Perhaps people have had some bad experiences but hope for a better one next time (that would be me). Why are the only options to like it at all times or go away?

Could it be possible...just maybe...that there are things Disney needs to improve on? How will this ever happen if nobody is ever supposed to express an honest yet negative opinion or talk about bad experiences?

Sure some people can and some people do. Everyone has complaints. I do.

Then there are the people who post only complaints (about every topic), over and over, and have been for years. I think they may fall into the "just don't go" category. But I actually feel for them, I think they are more addicted to WDW than they care to admit or else they would be gone by now.

 

[zobow02]

I just read a post on another thread where someone was complaining about WDW again. I didn't want to confront them directly, because it's not really about them. It's about an overall mindset of some of our posters here.

I mean this with pure kindness. If you feel that WDw is a waste of money, you and your family should avoid WDW from now on. I could argue all your points and tell you the accusations you're making are actually not backed up by a single solitary fact, but it wouldn't make a difference to you. So don't go -- remove the place from your life. If you feel WDW isn't a value for you, then there's no way you'd have a good time there, and the negativity you feel towards the place will undoubtably leak into other guests as your frustrations seethe out of you. I know it will affect posters here whoa re sincerely either offering advice or asking questions about an upcoming trip.

So just stop. Stop telling other people who consider the place great how wrong they are, how it used to be so much better (for the record, it wasn't. I grew up in Orlando, have been going for 45 some odd years. It's the same as it ever was). Stop complaining about long waits while you're waiting in lines. Stop arguing with the people who think it's a good value and telling them it's not. I mean, why tell someone else how they shouldn't spend their money, or have them second guess an expensive choice they made. Its one thing to offer a review or an opinion -- it's quite another to falsely rant for no purpose other than to say the place sucks.

it doesn't. Best theme park in the world. For the most part, most complaints are matters of degrees.

I think the large majority of people who come to this site do so because they actually either love Disney, or they want to learn about Disney because they are headed there soon and are excited. That's the large majority of visitors here. But there are some -- more than a few -- who hate the place, and sort of hate the people who love it. They spend a LOT of pixels telling people how this sucks, and how that sucks and how much better it used to be before whatever new was implemented. And it serves no purpose beyond making people scared. And making them second guess their choices and go into a well-funded and anticipated vacation looking for problems. Expecting issues that may or may not arise.

So you don't think the place is worth the time, money or effort. Stop going. Stop talking about it. Move on.

Thank you for this.
It's sad that some people go once and don't have a great trip, but yet it is also sad that they take the time to sign up for a dis boards account and just rant about their terrible trip(that's probably the only time they'll even post on here). I've been to Disney since I was an infant and every year it gets more expensive, however, the experience every year gets better. I believe the people who complain about their vacation didn't plan it wisely or they're expectations were too high. I know of many people who hate Disney and think it's stupid and boring which sometimes offends me. I'm in FL right now (not for a Disney vacation though) and today for fun I went through the monorail line, and I came acrossed a family staying at the contemporary with shirts with a heart and a bunch of cancer symbols and on the back of the shirt it said something like "time is precious don't take it for granted." and I realized, "they might be here because a family member just passed." and I thought how sweet it is that although it is a time of grief, it is a time to celebrate life and not take it for granted. But my point is, people shouldn't argue or glorify how much they hate Disney because Disney for some people has the best positive memory on maybe a bump in the road and gives them something to smile big about. Because of Disney, me and my family have many inside jokes, scrapbooks, even a Disney Christmas tree!, but also many memories that my family can remember forever <3

 

[ArwenMarie]

TP/Len Testa did an analysis of the wait times in January and came to the conclusion that Disney is running the parks with reduced staffing during low crowd times

Here is the podcast with the DISUnplugged where he talks about it

 

[whiporee]

TP/Len Testa did an analysis of the wait times in January and came to the conclusion that Disney is running the parks with reduced staffing during low crowd times

Here is the podcast with the DISUnplugged where he talks about it

That maybe the the popular extrapolation, but it's not the conclusion he reached.

What he actually said was he was checking to see why his wait times were so far off in January, and what he found was during MTWTh during the week MK saw a 5 percent reduction in overall capacity in Jan/Feb this year. During that time, he saw no reduction at all in capacity on FSSu.

He said nothing about reducing staffing -- the DIS guys suggested it, but he didn't confirm it or say he had any way of knowing about staffing. The DIS guys also suggested WDW was doing it as justification for tiered pricing, but again, Len didn't say anything like it.

He's also said several times since then that his studies have shown no reduction in capacity the next time they checked, which was March or April.

But if you're looking to say WDW sucks, this is one of the stories people glommed onto and promoted. And they mixed it with anecdotes about that time they only saw one track at SM running or that they saw extra cars go empty somewhere, and suddenly we've got a narrative that supports a position whether it's true or not. But for the record, we have no evidence that WDW is reducing staffing. We've got no statements or evidence of why there was a capacity reduction during that time. We do have evidence it has gone away.

 

[ArwenMarie]

That maybe the the popular extrapolation, but it's not the conclusion he reached.

What he actually said was he was checking to see why his wait times were so far off in January, and what he found was during MTWTh during the week MK saw a 5 percent reduction in overall capacity in Jan/Feb this year. During that time, he saw no reduction at all in capacity on FSSu.

He said nothing about reducing staffing -- the DIS guys suggested it, but he didn't confirm it or say he had any way of knowing about staffing. The DIS guys also suggested WDW was doing it as justification for tiered pricing, but again, Len didn't say anything like it.

He's also said several times since then that his studies have shown no reduction in capacity the next time they checked, which was March or April.

But if you're looking to say WDW sucks, this is one of the stories people glommed onto and promoted. And they mixed it with anecdotes about that time they only saw one track at SM running or that they saw extra cars go empty somewhere, and suddenly we've got a narrative that supports a position whether it's true or not. But for the record, we have no evidence that WDW is reducing staffing. We've got no statements or evidence of why there was a capacity reduction during that time. We do have evidence it has gone away.

You want to believe what you want to believe and that's fine. Staffing, capacity, whatever

Good luck with your campaign of "pure kindness"

 

[GADisneyDad14]

Just wanted to cut/paste a snippet from the DIS Guidelines:

We do not believe in censorship, and open discussions about various issues is encouraged. When participating in a thread, we ask that everyone be treated with respect and that our guidelines be followed.

Personal attacks on individuals and overly argumentative posts are against DIS Guidelines and can result in a closed thread and/or infractions... and this thread is teetering on that edge.

Please be respectful folks.

 

[whiporee]

You want to believe what you want to believe and that's fine. Staffing, capacity, whatever

It's not what I believe. It's what he said. It's not a question of interpretation, it's what the guy who collected and studied the data said the data showed.

Five percent capacity reduction in Jan/Feb during the week. Nothing since.

But when it's cited, you'd think he swore there was a 50 percent reduction and it's ongoing. And that study is cited quite a bit.

 

[vacationer1954]

A post complaining about complaining?

I think that misses important differences between what is being complained about in each case.