Just stop going

[GPC0321]

My 10 year old daughter told me at Epcot "Disney used to be magical. Now its an overcrowded amusement park." When a 10 year old Disney loving little girl says that, there is a problem.

But that "problem" isn't Disney's problem or anyone else's problem. It's very likely that steps away in Epcot at that very moment there was a 10-year old little girl saying, "This is the best place in the world!"

It's all down to individual perspective. You and your daughter no longer find joy in WDW. That's totally fine and understandable. But that doesn't mean there is something wrong with WDW or that everyone else is foolish for continuing to go and love the place.

 

[GPC0321]

Maybe I realized that deep down, Disney didn't care if we had a good experience or not, as long as they got our money and kept us coming back while paying more for less. Maybe I realized that all Disney wants to do is to pack the park and doesn't care if we wait in line for much longer than we should. Maybe I realized that they're focused on cost cutting instead of guest experience.

This is the type of complaining that does no good because it's not at all helpful. What does posting something like this do for this community except allow you a place to vent your personal frustrations?
This place is supposed to be a forum where people who are traveling to a Disney park can come and ask questions, share experiences, give tips and advice, etc.

You assert that "Disney doesn't care if we had a good experience or not..." and "all Disney wants to do is to pack the park..." and "they're focused on cost cutting instead of guest experience," as if these are facts (things you say you "realized" as if they are some known truth that you uncovered at last).

These are not facts about WDW though. They are your own personal beliefs about the company that owns and operates this vacation destination. They speak to how you perceive the place, not how the place actually is.

 

[Future_WorldPhonencian]

That maybe the the popular extrapolation, but it's not the conclusion he reached.

What he actually said was he was checking to see why his wait times were so far off in January, and what he found was during MTWTh during the week MK saw a 5 percent reduction in overall capacity in Jan/Feb this year. During that time, he saw no reduction at all in capacity on FSSu.

He said nothing about reducing staffing -- the DIS guys suggested it, but he didn't confirm it or say he had any way of knowing about staffing. The DIS guys also suggested WDW was doing it as justification for tiered pricing, but again, Len didn't say anything like it.

He's also said several times since then that his studies have shown no reduction in capacity the next time they checked, which was March or April.

But if you're looking to say WDW sucks, this is one of the stories people glommed onto and promoted. And they mixed it with anecdotes about that time they only saw one track at SM running or that they saw extra cars go empty somewhere, and suddenly we've got a narrative that supports a position whether it's true or not. But for the record, we have no evidence that WDW is reducing staffing. We've got no statements or evidence of why there was a capacity reduction during that time. We do have evidence it has gone away.

i would like to add that on testa and jim hill’s podcast (disney dish) they noted that several weeks after the lower capacity january disney drastically increased capacity on their rides which led to less time for maintenance and more ride breakdowns... wdw is not trying to “screw anyone” into waiting in longer lines, they want you to have a good time so you come back. Sometimes when wdw lowers capacity during a less busy time there are other long term reasons... the parks are open 365 days a year and things have to be kept up and fixed!

 

[dreiwhit]

Looking over the responses to my posts, I see that many folks have missed what I said that I used to love Disney. I grew up with Disney cartoons and movies. I went to DL many, many times as a kid - usually several times in a year. I used to look forward to my next trip. I used to spend hours with my daughter going over Disney pin websites and looking at her pins. I even used to listen to Disney park music in the car, at work, while walking, etc. Like many of you, I used to look at posts on Disboards from people that were angry with Disney and couldn't understand why they said the things they did. After all, everything that I had experienced was great.

We had some great trips. Some magical trips. But our last one sure wasn't. It was bad enough to make us not only not want to go to the parks again, but to stay away from other things that are Disney entirely.

You can say that its just my perception, but you really need to take a look at other forums, travel sites, etc., and see what people are saying about Disney parks. Many of their experiences match mine. Now, i'm not parroting them, but since we all came to the same conclusions independently, that is telling.

You can say its only my perception that Disney doesn't care about me and my family's experience. If that is true, why did the CMs not do anything about the rude and inconsiderate people bumping, jostling, hitting each other, acting up in line? I've never experienced this at Disney before, why was it tolerated now? They were there and watching. Why did the CMs not do anything about the free for all that we experienced trying to get on a tram? Why did they not summon security or law enforcement? After all, they were there and saw it. Why did they not stop the foreign tour groups from loudly singing as they walked as a group, and why did they not do anything when they barrelled through a crowd of people, making people get out of their way and almost knocking my daughter to the ground? After all, CMs were there. Again, I NEVER experienced any of this in the parks before. It may be a retorical question, but why did Disney allow that kind of bad behavior from guests so that it impacted my enjoyment?

Yes i'm angry at Disney, but there's also a part of me that is hurt. I loved Disney. But our experience was so bad as to take that love away.

You may not like what I say about Disney, and you may try to explain it away, but it all happened and I stand by it. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[fbb]

There may be individual experiences that are missed, but they've been replaced. You might not like the new ones as much, but I think it's inaccurate to say there's a void in their place.

There are some voids in Future World.

 

[mom2rtk]

I know you believe this with all your heart. But there is no -- zero, nada -- evidence that it actually happens.

Josh from EasyWDW seems to think they adjust staffing based on expected crowds:

https://www.easywdw.com/easy/blog/a-look-at-epcot-during-evening-extra-magic-hours/

 

[Nancyg56]

I understand that you have a very strong opinion of how folks should post on a DIsney message board, however you have not allowed for teh truly legitimate concerns that soem Disney lovers have, and feel that their negative posts should mean they shoudl stay away and find another vacation destination.

I also am a longtime DIsney fan, and freely admit that WDW is a favorite vacation destination, however i respect taht there are changes that leave a very bitter taste in my mouth. The changes that have occurred are not all positive, and honestly I do think that the people who are pointing them, along with their feelings have a lot to offer in terms of perspective. TO tell them to go elsewhere is disrespectful. If you disagreed you could have opened a discussion that was not confrontational, but informative. You may have learned why there are hard feelings, and you might have shared some things that you enjoy that might make a difference.

In. My opinion, disney was better in years past.

I do remember the things that have disappeared along the way, not to be replaced with anything new or better. Just removed.

I remember when one did not need to pay for a spot, or when there was not resort parking fees, or when the resorts had resort specific merchandise. I miss a lot of the "old" days, and when I see more changes that either take away from guest experience, or make guests pay for those experiences, I feel sad.

I also know that for every person who loves FP+ there is one who detest the waay their touring has needed to change. I love disney dining but see may cutbacks in menus, and hikes in prices to go along, that make no sense.

There is more, and I do find that I have my days when I express my displeasure. I figure I have that right, just as I do when I want to share how much I still find DIsney a value added destination.

 

[YesterDark]

Josh from EasyWDW seems to think they adjust staffing based on expected crowds:

https://www.easywdw.com/easy/blog/a-look-at-epcot-during-evening-extra-magic-hours/

That seems like normal business practices to me.

 

[Allison]

I could argue all your points and tell you the accusations you're making are actually not backed up by a single solitary fact

So just stop. Stop telling other people who consider the place great how wrong they are,

Stop talking about it.

But why are you trying to ruin other people's perception?

Some things have been lost and some things have been added, but it doesn't take away form the overall experience.

But this sentiment that it used to be so much better -- that the overall experience used to be so much higher -- simply isn't true

Some people feel the need to "tell it like it is" when what they're really doing is crapping on other people's opinions and desires.

Here is the thing, OP. You are telling people to stop doing this and that because your opinion is different than their opinion. You are saying what people feel isn't true-it's not a matter of it being true when it is a perception or opinion. It is what they think. Your feelings aren't any more fact than theirs. You think differently. That's okay. I can respect your opinions and those who think differently. I don't agree with everyone but I don't expect to. This is a discussion board and I think that means a variety of different opinions on discussion points get to be said. It isn't our place to tell someone to stop doing something.

 

[mom2rtk]

I understand that you have a very strong opinion of how folks should post on a DIsney message board, however you have not allowed for teh truly legitimate concerns that soem Disney lovers have, and feel that their negative posts should mean they shoudl stay away and find another vacation destination.

I also am a longtime DIsney fan, and freely admit that WDW is a favorite vacation destination, however i respect taht there are changes that leave a very bitter taste in my mouth. The changes that have occurred are not all positive, and honestly I do think that the people who are pointing them, along with their feelings have a lot to offer in terms of perspective. TO tell them to go elsewhere is disrespectful. If you disagreed you could have opened a discussion that was not confrontational, but informative. You may have learned why there are hard feelings, and you might have shared some things that you enjoy that might make a difference.

In. My opinion, disney was better in years past.

I do remember the things that have disappeared along the way, not to be replaced with anything new or better. Just removed.

I remember when one did not need to pay for a spot, or when there was not resort parking fees, or when the resorts had resort specific merchandise. I miss a lot of the "old" days, and when I see more changes that either take away from guest experience, or make guests pay for those experiences, I feel sad.

I also know that for every person who loves FP+ there is one who detest the waay their touring has needed to change. I love disney dining but see may cutbacks in menus, and hikes in prices to go along, that make no sense.

There is more, and I do find that I have my days when I express my displeasure. I figure I have that right, just as I do when I want to share how much I still find DIsney a value added destination.

Here is the thing, OP. You are telling people to stop doing this and that because your opinion is different than their opinion. You are saying what people feel isn't true-it's not a matter of it being true when it is a perception or opinion. It is what they think. Your feelings aren't any more fact than theirs. You think differently. That's okay. I can respect your opinions and those who think differently. I don't agree with everyone but I don't expect to. This is a discussion board and I think that means a variety of different opinions on discussion points get to be said. It isn't our place to tell someone to stop doing something.

Totally agree. It's a discussion board. People are going to discuss all sides and are definitely going to have different opinions. Telling people to stop posting a certain way, or to stop going to the parks really is disrespectful.

 

[GPC0321]

Looking over the responses to my posts, I see that many folks have missed what I said that I used to love Disney. I grew up with Disney cartoons and movies. I went to DL many, many times as a kid - usually several times in a year. I used to look forward to my next trip. I used to spend hours with my daughter going over Disney pin websites and looking at her pins. I even used to listen to Disney park music in the car, at work, while walking, etc. Like many of you, I used to look at posts on Disboards from people that were angry with Disney and couldn't understand why they said the things they did. After all, everything that I had experienced was great.

We had some great trips. Some magical trips. But our last one sure wasn't. It was bad enough to make us not only not want to go to the parks again, but to stay away from other things that are Disney entirely.

You can say that its just my perception, but you really need to take a look at other forums, travel sites, etc., and see what people are saying about Disney parks. Many of their experiences match mine. Now, i'm not parroting them, but since we all came to the same conclusions independently, that is telling.

You can say its only my perception that Disney doesn't care about me and my family's experience. If that is true, why did the CMs not do anything about the rude and inconsiderate people bumping, jostling, hitting each other, acting up in line? I've never experienced this at Disney before, why was it tolerated now? They were there and watching. Why did the CMs not do anything about the free for all that we experienced trying to get on a tram? Why did they not summon security or law enforcement? After all, they were there and saw it. Why did they not stop the foreign tour groups from loudly singing as they walked as a group, and why did they not do anything when they barrelled through a crowd of people, making people get out of their way and almost knocking my daughter to the ground? After all, CMs were there. Again, I NEVER experienced any of this in the parks before. It may be a retorical question, but why did Disney allow that kind of bad behavior from guests so that it impacted my enjoyment?

Yes i'm angry at Disney, but there's also a part of me that is hurt. I loved Disney. But our experience was so bad as to take that love away.

You may not like what I say about Disney, and you may try to explain it away, but it all happened and I stand by it. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

I cannot answer your individual questions about what happened and why CMs didn't address it, obviously, because I wasn't there. All I can say is that when vacationing in a place like WDW where it is going to be crowded and people are...well...people, so they're inconsiderate, rude, pushy, and obnoxious. Perhaps the CMs didn't perceive the instances you mentioned as being as bad as what you felt. Not saying you're wrong, just that somehow they may have missed it.

It takes a lot of patience and perspective to be in a really crowded place where everyone is trying to get their money's worth. Throw in exhausted, hot people...many of them children...and it's a recipe for disaster. I, personally, have always been downright amazed at how well Disney does deal with the crowds of often not-so-nice people.

When it comes down to it, there is nothing either of us can say to convince the other. Nor should we try to convince each other of anything. I have yet to experience anything at WDW that would dissuade me from wanting to return. It could happen, and if it does, I won't return. You have experienced something at WDW that has turned you off of the place. Nothing wrong with that.

You mention in your post that we should see what people are saying elsewhere about WDW. Why? Why do people who love and enjoy WDW need to know that others don't? I think that's a given. We know not everyone loves it.

I understand that you're disappointed and hurt. Someone mentioned the "grieving process" that people go through when they no longer can count on WDW to give them the joy they'd once known. It is sad. Part of the reason I don't like reading negative posts about the place is because I'm afraid they'll sway my opinion...make me start nitpicking and noticing things that I hadn't before. I don't want to do that. Ignorance is bliss in my case.

 

[mom2rtk]

. Part of the reason I don't like reading negative posts about the place is because I'm afraid they'll sway my opinion...make me start nitpicking and noticing things that I hadn't before. I don't want to do that. Ignorance is bliss in my case.

But then it's really incumbent upon you to step away instead of insisting that others change what they post or quit going (which is what the OP did).

 

[GPC0321]

But then it's really incumbent upon you to step away instead of insisting that others change what they post or quit going (which is what the OP did).

Oh, I quite agree! No one is forcing me to read negative posts, and I take full responsibility. Sometimes it's hard to avoid...I go into what seems like a harmless thread and then the negative posts start popping up about whatever the topic is.

This thread was obviously going to be controversial and I knew that going in. I wouldn't dare tell others what they should or should not post. I guess I just sympathized with the OP because those types of posts do drag me down a little. But...I try to chalk it up to different strokes for different folks. Not much else to do.

 

[StacyStrong]

Foreign tour groups singing in groups is considered bad behavior?

:|

Darn those foreign groups, contributing to our economy, spending their money, and having fun while they do it.

 

[vacationer1954]

I see both sides of this issue but I worry more about going too far toward bitterness than going the other way. Remember Bill Murray's advice, "Don't drive angry!" Well I think there is something to be said for the advice, "Don't post angry!"

If Disney ever promised something and then didn't deliver and didn't try to make it right then I can see myself posting, "Disney no longer does (whatever) even though it is still promised on the website/in the brochure/on my confirmation." I feel that that fits into "helpful sharing of experiences." I think I should forewarn other guests if Disney started not living up to what it promises. I surely don't want to be surprised by being promised one thing and getting something else, or something less, and I'm sure other people don't want to be surprised like that either.

However, if Disney no longer promises (whatever) and they no longer do (whatever) then that's different. No one should expect anything specific to never change. If I wasn't happy about a change, I would say that we're sad or disappointed with the change, but I don't understand "complaining" about the situation. Disney didn't do anything wrong. It's just a change. It's news, not an offense or a mistake. If I complained about it, some people might get the impression from that that Disney doesn't live up to what it promises, which isn't true. I would worry that expressing my experience as a complaint would be misleading and deceptive. We want to help each other have more enjoyable vacations, not cause other guests to be upset about something so we have company in our "misery".

 

[Nancyg56]

I see both sides of this issue but I worry more about going too far toward bitterness than going the other way. Remember Bill Murray's advice, "Don't drive angry!" Well I think there is something to be said for the advice, "Don't post angry!"

If Disney ever promised something and then didn't deliver and didn't try to make it right then I can see myself posting, "Disney no longer does (whatever) even though it is still promised on the website/in the brochure/on my confirmation." I feel that that fits into "helpful sharing of experiences." I think I should forewarn other guests if Disney started not living up to what it promises. I surely don't want to be surprised by being promised one thing and getting something else, or something less, and I'm sure other people don't want to be surprised like that either.

However, if Disney no longer promises (whatever) and they no longer do (whatever) then that's different. No one should expect anything specific to never change. If I wasn't happy about a change, I would say that we're sad or disappointed with the change, but I don't understand "complaining" about the situation. Disney didn't do anything wrong. It's just a change. It's news, not an offense or a mistake. If I complained about it, some people might get the impression from that that Disney doesn't live up to what it promises, which isn't true. I would worry that expressing my experience as a complaint would be misleading and deceptive. We want to help each other have more enjoyable vacations, not cause other guests to be upset about something so we have company in our "misery".

But don't you think that at some point individuals need to be able to sift through posts and make their own determination? I have the right to complain if I feel strongly that I have been let down, whether it is from a promise not kept, or because I have finally come to the end of my personal rope. It is not my responsibility to shelter others from making a decision, and if I choose to post on a message board such as this one I am actually providing an opportunity for discussion.

I saw the thread where the child said Disney is like any other amusement park. In many respects it is, So she was right IMO. Disney is a group of theme parks. How someone finds the experience is valid for them. Not everyone can immerse themselves in the ambiance that envelops me and my family when we enter WDW, adn I respect that, and I also see where there are promises hinted at that are never going to be honored. For a guest who saw a TV commercial that highlighted a family of four running on Main Street, right into arms of Disney characters, well Surprise!!!! Not happening. Those folks might feel very let down. Or the family who visited Avery 4 to 5 years, and finds that the trip they long anticipated is a bust becuase of changes that have been occuring that they somehow did not understand. Some of those lines recently have been horrible, and some of the attractionas are nearly impossible to get on when they first come online.

I think posting here, even if it is to discuss why you are done is helpful. It give everyone an opportunity to talk about the changes, how to address them, and allows families to decide if they want to spend the money at any particular time.

 

[vacationer1954]

But don't you think that at some point individuals need to be able to sift through posts and make their own determination? I have the right to complain if I feel strongly that I have been let down, whether it is from a promise not kept, or because I have finally come to the end of my personal rope.

I think of it as a matter of being open and honest, with myself and with others. I don't want anyone to be misled, and so if I am "at the end of my personal rope" I want to make that clear, "I'm being unreasonable about this because I'm angry and disappointed, so take this with a grain of salt, ..." As long as I'm being upfront about my expecting more than I was promised, then I can feel okay about it. But if I'm posting what I'm posting to get other people upset because I want more company being upset, then I feel that I'm not helping anyone with that.

 

[mesaboy2]

I think of it as a matter of being open and honest, with myself and with others. I don't want anyone to be misled, and so if I am "at the end of my personal rope" I want to make that clear, "I'm being unreasonable about this because I'm angry and disappointed, so take this with a grain of salt, ..." As long as I'm being upfront about my expecting more than I was promised, then I can feel okay about it. But if I'm posting what I'm posting to get other people upset because I want more company being upset, then I feel that I'm not helping anyone with that.

I completely agree, but I think applies equally to both ends of the posting spectrum from the “constant complainer” to the “apologist”. They are both well-represented here.

 

[Shanti]

Again, that's fine. As I said before, sounds like you and your family are making the right decision for you. But how does that vague list of complaints do anything for anyone else? Especially here.

This is the type of complaining that does no good because it's not at all helpful. What does posting something like this do for this community except allow you a place to vent your personal frustrations?
This place is supposed to be a forum where people who are traveling to a Disney park can come and ask questions, share experiences, give tips and advice, etc.

These boards are for more than just logistical planning and advice-giving for newbies. They also give people a space to share their excitement, celebrations, disappointments, and problems related to trips. If someone feels angry or disillusioned about the WDW experience, or even just wants to vent about something minor, this is the place to share that, too.

I'd hate for people to feel they could only be positive about WDW on these boards. That would take away the honesty and feeling of real communication you get here. People would also likely be less trustful of the advice and opinions they read here, knowing that everything said is supposed to stay positive. So a lack of candor wouldn't do anyone any good, not even newbies planning their first trips.

And this is coming from someone who still likes WDW.

 

[maxiesmom]

These boards are for more than just logistical planning and advice-giving for newbies. They also give people a space to share their excitement, celebrations, disappointments, and problems related to trips. If someone feels angry or disillusioned about the WDW experience, or even just wants to vent about something minor, this is the place to share that, too.

I'd hate for people to feel they could only be positive about WDW on these boards. That would take away the honesty and feeling of real communication you get here. People would also likely be less trustful of the advice and opinions they read here, knowing that everything said is supposed to stay positive. So a lack of candor wouldn't do anyone any good, not even newbies planning their first trips.

And this is coming from someone who still likes WDW.

I agree that is a place to share the positive and the negative. But if post after post after post is negative? Then maybe it is time to step away.