Len Testa Interview

[mcd2745]

For example, if they have let's say 1,000 CM's on days for 50,000 people and then 500 CM's on days they have 25,000 the lines are going to be the same.

I'm sure it's not just being done with CMs. I'm sure for many attractions, they are also taking ride vehicles offline to save on "wear & tear".

A few years ago, the popular sentiment around Fastpass+ and the MDE app ("Nextgen") was that they didn't want you in line, because if you're in line, you're not spending money. I wonder if they have changed their thinking on that to now believe that what they save on operating costs by cutting capacity outweighs the additional spending people my do if they are not waiting in line.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The goal would be lower operational costs, especially payroll and maintenance.

Here's the graph I mentioned on the show, showing how much wait times have increased in the past couple of years (this was through April 2017):

So as of a year ago, wait times were up at the Magic Kingdom by just under 60% relative to late 2013. There's no chance - zero - that attendance was up anything close to that. Same thing at the other parks.

Thanks for chiming in and for sharing this!

I am sure it is like a lot of things in that it isn't any one thing that has led to this increase - but totally agree that there is now way that it is just higher crowds that are leading to a 60% wait time increase sin late 2013. Now, higher crowds could be part of it (last time I checked stats total crowds were up up like 14% since 2010) and how they use the fast pass system with rides that weren't designed for it (Pirates, etc.) I am sure hurts things, and then a number of rides being down at DHS and some others they have closed - even if not super popular could still absorb some people. Also, i think part hours overall are down a bit with earlier closes.

So if you have more people having few lines to wait in (some of which are inflated due to implementation of FP), then fewer park hours to be there for, and then reducing staff/ride capacity during "slow" periods - definitely can add up



I wonder if another reason Disney would do this is to appear as if they are more popular than ever and thus increase demand if people *think* it is so popular. I know when the NY Mets built their new stadium they purposely build it on the smaller side so as to make it harder to get tickets and thus artificially make it seem like it is the "hot ticket" to get, thus increasing desire to have those tickets and thus demand and thus ability to raise ticket prices

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I'm sure it's not just being done with CMs. I'm sure for many attractions, they are also taking ride vehicles offline to save on "wear & tear".

A few years ago, the popular sentiment around Fastpass+ and the MDE app ("Nextgen") was that they didn't want you in line, because if you're in line, you're not spending money. I wonder if they have changed their thinking on that to now believe that what they save on operating costs by cutting capacity outweighs the additional spending people my do if they are not waiting in line.

One thing Disney has is a ton of data (only aided by the addition of Magic Bands) and I am sure they have their data scientists crunching those numbers to find the sweet spot of where they are maximizing profits but reducing staff (and thus costs) but just enough to not make lines just too long that they aren't spending as much as they could if the lines were 1 person shorter. So rather than maximizing any one metric it is finding that perfect intersection of all of them

 

[bwbuddy5]

Thanks, Len, for chiming in. Your annual subscription is the best Disney deal out there.

 

[DisneyLover1217]

I'm sure it's not just being done with CMs. I'm sure for many attractions, they are also taking ride vehicles offline to save on "wear & tear".

A few years ago, the popular sentiment around Fastpass+ and the MDE app ("Nextgen") was that they didn't want you in line, because if you're in line, you're not spending money. I wonder if they have changed their thinking on that to now believe that what they save on operating costs by cutting capacity outweighs the additional spending people my do if they are not waiting in line.

I was trying to imply with less CM's attractions cannot run at full capacity, but I agree with you I think they figured out hiring less staff and cutting down rides saves them more money.

 

[soniam]

You're all too kind. Thanks very much. And thanks again for Craig and Pete for having me on.

We recognize that some folks don't have a choice as to when they visit WDW. The thing to remember is that the touring plans use the same methodology to estimate wait times at attractions. So even if you can't pick the time of year you visit, you can still take advantage of the touring plans.

And I'm sure it's a coincidence, but the calendar has done pretty well since the DIS had me on the show.

Thanks for the work you guys do and for explaining how you get the data. We love your site, app, and the custom touring plans. I can't imagine going without it.

 

[SA mom]

I listened with my high schoolers today. Not only do I thank Len (and Craig) for a great podcast but one of my girls interested in math is now looking into the field of data scientist. She didn't have a clue what she wanted to do this morning, you really lit a fire in her.

 

[SorcererHeidi]

I listened with my high schoolers today. Not only do I thank Len (and Craig) for a great podcast but one of my girls interested in math is now looking into the field of data scientist. She didn't have a clue what she wanted to do this morning, you really lit a fire in her.

Wow, that's totally AWESOME, @SA mom !!

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I listened with my high schoolers today. Not only do I thank Len (and Craig) for a great podcast but one of my girls interested in math is now looking into the field of data scientist. She didn't have a clue what she wanted to do this morning, you really lit a fire in her.

That is awesome and a great career to go into nowadays!

 

[KC Mouse]

There are several reasons why a company would do that. One being costs and maintenance. Len did go into it a bit in the interview.

This year we are going to Disneyland, we are taking a break form WDW to see what else is out there. The Disney experience has changed so much in the last 10 years, the cost is no longer worth the experience. Im honestly not bitter I just cant keep on spending money on WDW with such an inferior product being offered.

 

[DLgal]

The goal would be lower operational costs, especially payroll and maintenance.

Here's the graph I mentioned on the show, showing how much wait times have increased in the past couple of years (this was through April 2017):

So as of a year ago, wait times were up at the Magic Kingdom by just under 60% relative to late 2013. There's no chance - zero - that attendance was up anything close to that. Same thing at the other parks.

But didn't Fastpass+ launch in 2014? Isn't that a more obvious explanation of why wait times jumped so considerably since 2013?

 

[rteetz]

But didn't Fastpass+ launch in 2014? Isn't that a more obvious explanation of why wait times jumped so considerably since 2013?

It started in late 2013 but legacy FP did exist before that which was the same concept. FP+ did add more attractions than legacy FP. I’m sure Len can go more in depth but if FP was the serious issue here I think he would’ve mentioned that.

 

[Tonyz]

Not a fan of what Disney's pulling here. You've got all the money in the world, stop cutting costs with the cast members. They're the people that make this place so great.

They must know how bad this makes them look, but I guess they don't care. Probably not a single person is changing their trip plans, honestly

 

[rteetz]

Not a fan of what Disney's pulling here. You've got all the money in the world, stop cutting costs with the cast members. They're the people that make this place so great.

They must know how bad this makes them look, but I guess they don't care. Probably not a single person is changing their trip plans, honestly

I feel the general guest has no clue. They just think it’s crowded and that’s it. I think that’s why Disney doesn’t care or change what they are doing.

 

[Tonyz]

I feel the general guest has no clue. They just think it’s crowded and that’s it. I think that’s why Disney doesn’t care or change what they are doing.

Oh definitely. I'm saying even the people who know what the deal probably aren't canceling their trips anytime soon.

 

[DisneyLover1217]

The problem is the majority of their guests are still first time visitors. So they have nothing to compare it to. So no need for Disney to change anything. For those of us who have been going for years, we obviously see a difference. I guess the only way Disney will change is if or when their shortcuts to save money, starts ticking off future first time guests who now decide not to go there.

 

[Jeff Laughlin]

Another benefit to Disney with all of this, it helps make people want to buy add-ons, whether its more fast passes(club level), after hour events, or just simply getting people to feel they need to stay longer to get everything done

 

[Sarabi's Cubs]

I found this interview fascinating - really enjoyed it!

Laurie

 

[12jdc]

Love Len and TP!! Thx for the hard work!

 

[Stacy's a freak]

I also loved this interview! Hearing the science behind Touring Plans' numbers and the potential theories the data generates are so interesting. I vote for more segments/shows like these that speak to the geeks out there who like to know "how things work". Bravo!