Multiple time renter now concerned?

[nursemelis374]

Good morning, We have rented points multiple times and as I now get ready to book a trip for next February, I find myself taking pause. We have booked three great trips through https://dvcrentalstore.com/ and even a 4th that we had to cancel due to the sudden adoption of my son, which they refunded in full with the insurance. We always get the protection plan.

With everything that has gone on lately and catching up on some of the issues renters have had, I am a bit worried. Anyone else feel the same way? We love renting and staying in the DVC resorts but suddenly am concerned.

This might be what forces me to actually buy!

ETA: link

 

[Sandisw]

First, I edited your post. You must post a link to a business and as you notice, it’s blocked out, and must remain that way. Please do not discuss the business by name,

To answer your question, I’d be Leary of renting in today’s climate unless one can afford to lose it all

 

[Minniemoo15]

I rented several times and had great experiences. We ended up buying in ourselves and I am so happy to now have control over our own reservations. I never hesitated to rent in the past, but I don’t think I would rent at the moment ... the past few weeks have opened my eyes and made me a lot more risk averse than I was previously.

 

[Brian Noble]

as I now get ready to book a trip for next February
...
With everything that has gone on lately and catching up on some of the issues renters have had, I am a bit worried. Anyone else feel the same way?

I think it is likely that any DVC rental broker will be out of business by February, and that reservation is likely to no longer be there. I also suspect that Disney is going to be offering some very good deals in the next year or so to entice people in a down economy. I am also not sure how easy it would be to get third-party trip insurance that will pay if the broker goes out of business, and the broker's protection plan won't help if that happens.

I would not make any non-refundable travel purchases in the current situation. I've banked most of my 2020 timeshare assets into future years. I do have an exchange in mid-June to the Channel Islands and Ventura, CA that I am all but certain to cancel, and we are holding out hope that we can do two weeks on Kaual for the December/January holidays. But, even that doesn't look certain right now. I also have another exchange booked for late Feb/early March next year, but that can be canceled also.

 

[philbrody]

I've rented and been a renter and never had an issue. I think the business will be there longer term but wouldn't book anything anywhere (disney, cruise, hotel, airfare) in this climate that is non refundable.

 

[TraderSamWDW]

I think it is likely that any DVC rental broker will be out of business by February, and that reservation is likely to no longer be there.

Sort of off topic but curious as to why you think that? It is not a business that has an inventory carrying cost. The operating cost is their advertising and web hosting, no? Am I missing something? You can respond in a DM if you want.

Not trying to be argumentative, simply wondering if there is something I missed. I know the market will change, but with the web site developed, I literally think it can cost less than 100$ a month to operate.

 

[Deb & Bill]

You could also rent from an individual owner off the DIS Rent/Trade Board if you still want to rent points. Just find one with lots of posts on the boards (plus read all the sticky threads at the top of that board).

 

[starry_solo]

Sort of off topic but curious as to why you think that? It is not a business that has an inventory carrying cost. The operating cost is their advertising and web hosting, no? Am I missing something? You can respond in a DM if you want.

Not trying to be argumentative, simply wondering if there is something I missed. I know the market will change, but with the web site developed, I literally think it can cost less than 100$ a month to operate.

It's because of the multiple threads that have been going on about the rental brokers. See:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/davids-dvc-rental-reimbursement-or-rescheduling.3796922/
and

https://www.disboards.com/threads/does-davids-tell-you-if-the-renter-cancels.3796406/

 

[TraderSamWDW]

It's because of the multiple threads that have been going on about the rental brokers. See:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/davids-dvc-rental-reimbursement-or-rescheduling.3796922/
and

https://www.disboards.com/threads/does-davids-tell-you-if-the-renter-cancels.3796406/

I understand the chaos that is going on, it was more a business/economics question. Isn't there next to 0 operating costs for any broker? Web hosting - 30 bucks. Now if one particular broker did something shady and gets sued, sure, I get it. But otherwise, if a business costs that little to run, it literally takes one customer to make a profit. (I do not know how much time it takes on the broker's side, which I guess is part of my question). But its not like some huge Brick and Mortar Business that takes the first 10 days of the month doing full business just to pay its taxes, utilities, etc, etc.

 

[40ariel]

I have rented DVC points in the past and had a good experience. I did not rent DVC points this year. I am nervous to rent DVC points in the future.

 

[Minniemoo15]

I understand the chaos that is going on, it was more a business/economics question. Isn't there next to 0 operating costs for any broker? Web hosting - 30 bucks. Now if one particular broker did something shady and gets sued, sure, I get it. But otherwise, if a business costs that little to run, it literally takes one customer to make a profit. (I do not know how much time it takes on the broker's side, which I guess is part of my question). But its not like some huge Brick and Mortar Business that takes the first 10 days of the month doing full business just to pay its taxes, utilities, etc, etc.

They are a fairly large operation with many employees, full office to support etc. I have no idea about the financials or viability, but it is quite a bit more than just one person at home on his computer.

 

[nursemelis374]

Thanks for all your replies. I agree that for now it is best just to wait and see. We are able to pretty flexible with our dates so securing something at 11 months isn't really necessary.

 

[CmdrThor]

I understand the chaos that is going on, it was more a business/economics question. Isn't there next to 0 operating costs for any broker? Web hosting - 30 bucks. Now if one particular broker did something shady and gets sued, sure, I get it. But otherwise, if a business costs that little to run, it literally takes one customer to make a profit. (I do not know how much time it takes on the broker's side, which I guess is part of my question). But its not like some huge Brick and Mortar Business that takes the first 10 days of the month doing full business just to pay its taxes, utilities, etc, etc.

The risk for brokers is if they accept credit card payments which I believe most do. It is probably in the best interest of any renter who has had a reservation cancelled because the resorts are closed and has not received a full refund to pursue a chargeback with their credit card company. The contracts written by the brokers do not specifically cover this scenario, and the broker/owner are not delivering their end of the contract. The right thing to do for the broker is to refund the rental, but many are not doing that. If the broker loses the chargeback and they lose too much money, they will go out of business.

I would only rent directly with an owner at this point and I would make sure the contract specifies the expiration of the points and what happens if the resorts are closed.

 

[Brian Noble]

It is not a business that has an inventory carrying cost.

Ah, but there is---or at least, it can be depending on the model. The broker is on the hook for "in flight" reservations, and the problem is exacerbated at scale.

Suppose I am a broker. I match Renter X and Owner Y for a reservation Z months into the future. X pays me, I pay Y after taking my cut, maybe holding some back but probably not all of it. However, Z months later there is no reservation because all of WDW is closed, and this looks like it will go for 10 weeks--20% of my annual gross (not net) business disappears. I can't refund the entire cost of those reservations for everyone because I don't have the cash on hand.

Then, the charge-backs from the credit card companies start. Even if my contract says "not refundable" some of those chargebacks are going to go through given the circumstances, because I probably also wrote in something about guaranteeing the stay. When it's just a handful of owners who pull reservations at the last minute, I can probably swing that. When I'm staring down 1/5th of my annual cash flow, not so much. In rather short order, those chargebacks bleed me dry.

 

[RoseGold]

There's nothing wrong with a direct booking with Disney. That Disney hotel cancellation policy is looking quite appealing right now, for sure.

Also, if you're a repeat renter with frequent trips, it might be time to look into buying. There are going to be some motivated resellers out there.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

Renting points from an owner is still a good deal. Renters should ask owners to include the following language in the rental agreement:

In the event that the Renter wishes to change the reservation, Member will make reasonable , but limited, efforts to assist Renter to make such changes. Renter should be aware that changes to the reservation might not be possible because of limited room availability or DVC program rules. Any changes must take place on or before [insert date 45 days before check-in] and result in travel being completed by [insert date points will expire] as that is when the points will expire. Renter shall be responsible for 100% of any additional charges assessed or costs incurred to accommodate Renter’s changes. Payment for these changes shall be due upon notice from Member. Confirmation of payment for such changes is required within 5 business days of such notice or reservation shall be cancelled.

I've been a renter and I've rented points out as an owner three times and I've agreed to the terms above.

 

[CmdrThor]

Renting points from an owner is still a good deal. Renters should ask owners to include the following language in the rental agreement:

In the event that the Renter wishes to change the reservation, Member will make reasonable , but limited, efforts to assist Renter to make such changes. Renter should be aware that changes to the reservation might not be possible because of limited room availability or DVC program rules. Any changes must take place on or before [insert date 45 days before check-in] and result in travel being completed by [insert date points will expire] as that is when the points will expire. Renter shall be responsible for 100% of any additional charges assessed or costs incurred to accommodate Renter’s changes. Payment for these changes shall be due upon notice from Member. Confirmation of payment for such changes is required within 5 business days of such notice or reservation shall be cancelled.

I've been a renter and I've rented points out as an owner three times and I've agreed to the terms above.

That doesn't cover the resort closing. If the resort is closed, it isn't the Renter that "wishes to change the reservation".

 

[GrnMtnMan]

That doesn't cover the resort closing. If the resort is closed, it isn't the Renter that "wishes to change the reservation".

Sure it does, unless there are specified reasons for a change. A resort being closed is an excellent reason for a renter to wish to change a reservation!

But, going forward (like you said above), it's probably a good idea to have a resort closure clause in the arrangement to determine how to handle it.

 

[CmdrThor]

Sure it does, unless there are specified reasons for a change. A resort being closed is an excellent reason for a renter to wish to change a reservation!

But, going forward, it's probably a good idea to have a resort closure clause in the arrangement to determine how to handle it.

No, because DVC is cancelling those reservations. As an owner you would be in breach of contract for failing to keep the reservation active.

 

[Deb & Bill]

No, because DVC is cancelling those reservations. As an owner you would be in breach of contract for failing to keep the reservation active.

How about an addition to the contract stating in the event the resort is closed, the space rented is not available and the points used will expire before the reservation can be rescheduled, the owner of the points and the renter of the points shall share the amount paid by the renter. The owner will keep an amount that would be equal to the cost of the dues for those points (include that cost in the contract) and the renter will be entitled to the remaining funds. Then include information noting when the points expire so the renter can decide if they want to continue with the reservation.