Poly vs Riviera - Help me spend my money

I know I’m like a stuck record but this is what a lot of people think...........
Why did they choose this theming, it’s just not Disney enough. Could argue the same for other DVC resorts but this was a brand new creation with the intellect of hundreds of imagineers. It doesn’t capture the heart in a way it should.

That’s before the issues on Location, transportation, resale, dues, point charts.

I mean how hard is it to sell DVC?, I could do better than this.

I think my overriding emotion is disappointment....sigh!

And you have someone like me who thinks it’s a perfect place. It is my cup of tea.

That is the good thing about DVC...there is a place for everyone.
 
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I know I’m like a stuck record but this is what a lot of people think...........
Why did they choose this theming, it’s just not Disney enough. Could argue the same for other DVC resorts but this was a brand new creation with the intellect of hundreds of imagineers. It doesn’t capture the heart in a way it should.

That’s before the issues on Location, transportation, resale, dues, point charts.

I mean how hard is it to sell DVC?, I could do better than this.

I think my overriding emotion is disappointment....sigh!
So I’m just curious about this...
I don’t notice that Grand Floridian is too “Disney” but I don’t hear the same comment about this resort. Has this been a complaint of VGF as well? I’m just truly curious about how RVA is less Disney than VGF or even somewhere like BCV/YCV.
 
So I’m just curious about this...
I don’t notice that Grand Floridian is too “Disney” but I don’t hear the same comment about this resort. Has this been a complaint of VGF as well? I’m just truly curious about how RVA is less Disney than VGF or even somewhere like BCV/YCV.

I think maybe because those resorts have been around so long people are just used to it? I admit I worried about the lack of Disney the ming before we saw it and while the touches are subtler than A of A I can't really see how the Disney touches are less than any of the other DVC or deluxe resorts. With the exception of AKV and PBV and possibly v BLT all the resorts are themed but not in your face Disney but have subtler touches.
 
I don’t notice that Grand Floridian is too “Disney” but I don’t hear the same comment about this resort. Has this been a complaint of VGF as well?

VGF is too stuffy or fancy or whatever. People don't like it because it has too much theming or they don't like the period theming. It has heavy theming, which is hard to say about RIV.
 


Why did they choose this theming, it’s just not Disney enough. Could argue the same for other DVC resorts but this was a brand new creation with the intellect of hundreds of imagineers. It doesn’t capture the heart in a way it should.
Thiiiiiiiiis.
So. Much. This.

Don't get me wrong - I *did* buy some direct RIV points, because we wanted to be able to book near Epcot for a few days in a studio over Food & Wine and needed the 11 month window (and the incentives were enough to make it worth it for us) and we wanted the long expiration, studios/1BRs that sleep 5, and skyliner to HS/Epcot. And small point BCV are just too high for us with only 22 years left. Buuuuut, what appeals to me SO MUCH about Disney is THEMING. This is why CCV/BRV, AKV, and Poly are my favorites. The theming is so immersive at these resorts. (So is BCV and BW, but we're from New England, so it's not 'different enough' to be on our love list, except that BCV has the best pool, the best ice cream, and we love the location. If resale contracts were cheaper, or the expiration longer, we'd likely buy there.)
 
So I’m just curious about this...
I don’t notice that Grand Floridian is too “Disney” but I don’t hear the same comment about this resort. Has this been a complaint of VGF as well? I’m just truly curious about how RVA is less Disney than VGF or even somewhere like BCV/YCV.
In my opinion, VGF really hits the victorian, turn-of-the-century theming really well. It's not our cup of tea, but it's well-done and spot-on for what it's trying to accomplish.

I think the challenge with Riviera is that it is too subtle and leans towards appeal to the most number of people, which means it's very similar to many hotels you'll stay at, rather than being representative of the theming but unique enough to stand out. The mosaics are, in my mind, an example of doing the theming right, but a lot of the resort doesn't feel "over the top" enough in terms of immersive theming. And I'm saying this having bought there, as we like the resort enough to wanted to have that 11-month priority, and know that we're likely to do long weekends there during F&W.
 
So I’m just curious about this...
I don’t notice that Grand Floridian is too “Disney” but I don’t hear the same comment about this resort. Has this been a complaint of VGF as well? I’m just truly curious about how RVA is less Disney than VGF or even somewhere like BCV/YCV.

GFV really takes me away to a different place and time. Riv does not. And GFV isn’t my favorite resort. I personally wouldn’t buy there, but I would buy there over RIV because history has shown that GFV holds its value. RIV doesn’t take me away. It is a very pretty hotel with gorgeous rooms that feels like it was added onto Caribbean beach— which makes no sense. It is almost like a moderate plus resort category in terms of the grounds, although the grounds are nicer at the likes of Port Orleans. My teenager described it as a stopover hotel. He said it felt like a lot of people were traveling through it. It has very little public space for relaxing and spreading out, no community hall, no savana, no wilderness, no SAB, no boardwalk area, no ability to walk to a theme park or shopping area, no Luau or hoop dee doo, no... extra. So for me it isn’t that there isn’t enough Disney but that there isn’t enough. And even so, I like it and would consider buying there except for the resale restrictions (and member fees as a secondary reason). I think the disappointment people talk about in reference to RIV is because it is not as much wow or “plus” as Walt would say and yet more risk, higher point chart, higher member fees. People want to want to buy it and that’s why they are disappointed.
 


Uh, 8-10 years is terrible. Just stagger the passes and then it’s even longer. PLUS you have no idea if you can sell without taking a bath. And this math on direct, non-promised perks, has some LARGE assumptions, as 2020 has shown.

So yea, definitely never RIV in this scenario.

Except your breakeven is in 10 years and then draw additional savings for the next 40 years. You always want to bring up its a large assumption about the benefits. In reality and we have went over this ticket discounts have existed since the start of DVC and are highly likely to continue.

There might be a chance that APs are removed and replaced again with length of stay tickets but guess what that would also save you money. So you are still saving money in the future.

This also doesn't account for the benefit of long term your points being direct and benefits of being able to stay anywhere. Not a big issue for the next 20 years but will start to be more of a benefit in 2042.

Again if you are thinking of selling or you are old then no buy resale. None of this accounts for the benefit of a fixed week as well and potential point increases we could continue to see the time of year the OP is going to travel.

I’ve never seen a poly contract go for $110, even though poly has less years left on it and lower member fees. I am not trying to knock RIV. We stayed there last March and, although it does have some drawbacks, it is a beautiful resort. We are flexible and love all of the resorts. I am just thinking about economics.

I suspect people have bought POLY for $110. Regardless there is a $55/point buffer built in to the RIV resale price over POLY when you go to sell. So if you are thinking of economics you are saving more money now by buying RIV over POLY (both in per point as well as total points needed).

I do find it interesting that the prevailing wisdom is to buy where you want to stay because trading out at 7 months is far from guaranteed and if you can't ever switch you need to be happy staying at your home resort and now the idea of being locked into a particular home resort is considered such a disadvantage.

100% which is why we decided to take our #2 choice (RIV) over our #1 choice (BWV) and buy direct while letting go 2 of our 3 BWV contracts. The more I looked at locking in 100 points direct at CCV/BLT the more I just decided RIV was the better choice and the math wasn't that drastically different ($155/point RIV direct for 300 points).

I know I’m like a stuck record but this is what a lot of people think...........
Why did they choose this theming, it’s just not Disney enough. Could argue the same for other DVC resorts but this was a brand new creation with the intellect of hundreds of imagineers. It doesn’t capture the heart in a way it should.

That’s before the issues on Location, transportation, resale, dues, point charts.

I mean how hard is it to sell DVC?, I could do better than this.

I think my overriding emotion is disappointment....sigh!

You love AKV which has plenty of issues yet you still love it. Thing is while the physical location is not attached to Epcot the Skyliner makes up for it. The resale restrictions for people who love the resort actually help with cheaper add-on points long term.

When you talk about point charts its 2020 they are going to be more than 10-20 year old resorts. Its not really out of line as its less than VGF/POLY and in line with BLT. It also likely will be less than DL Tower as well. CCV is an anomaly based on Disney stacking the point charts with Cabin points (even wrote something up on it in my signature).

Due are higher and will remain high but guess what those fees can only go to upkeep of the resort so it will fall in line with the benefits you get at the resort. Its also likely the difference shrinks for the next 3-4 years before stabilizing.

GFV really takes me away to a different place and time.

I personally view VGF as a high end resort not really much more. I think some of this is relative. I would consider BLT/CONT to be completely void of theming while others love it.

I am not saying RIV is over the top themed but it does have lots of little Disney touches that I personally like. Example when I look at CCV I see a resort that I could stay at where I live. Rented a cabin even on a lake this summer.
 
Except your breakeven is in 10 years and then draw additional savings for the next 40 years. You always want to bring up its a large assumption about the benefits. In reality and we have went over this ticket discounts have existed since the start of DVC and are highly likely to continue.

I don't spend five figures to maybe make a few hundred bucks in ten years. If the history of DVC has shown anything it's that these benefits go down, not up over time.
 
I know I’m like a stuck record but this is what a lot of people think...........
Why did they choose this theming, it’s just not Disney enough. Could argue the same for other DVC resorts but this was a brand new creation with the intellect of hundreds of imagineers. It doesn’t capture the heart in a way it should.

That’s before the issues on Location, transportation, resale, dues, point charts.

I mean how hard is it to sell DVC?, I could do better than this.

I think my overriding emotion is disappointment....sigh!

I don't really care about whether it's "Disney" enough, as I think that Disney's greatest creations are original ideas that don't use pre-existing characters.. but I do think that RIV's theme just isn't focused enough.

I don't think it's enough for the place to be pretty... where am I?? Go eat at Topolino's.. so that means I'm stepping into the Italian Riviera now, right? Wait - did my server just greet me in French? *** is going on??

It just all seems very wishy washy when it comes to setting. And they throw in the whole "Remember when Walt liked to travel places?" on top of it to cover the gaps. IDK, if you like the vibe of this place, then I certainly don't blame you... but I don't think it's WDI's best work when it comes to place-setting.
 
I guess having been to the French Riviera I think the theming is fairly well done. It isn’t over the top but I do think the little touches really do remind me of what I saw. The structure of the building almost reminds me of the Monte Carlo. I love how they did the artwork in the style of French and Italian artists. Even the font used on the signs for the cafe, gift shop etc, are reminiscent of what you might have seen in the roaring twenties when the Riviera was the place to be for the rich and famous. I do think they could have done more, but I’m not really sure they could have done a TON more.

When I see VGF it makes me think of a nice hotel from the nineties. It reminds me of the hotel from home alone lol. I guess it is good there are lots of options for everyone!
 
I don't spend five figures to maybe make a few hundred bucks in ten years. If the history of DVC has shown anything it's that these benefits go down, not up over time.

Except they are not spending 5 figures to make a few hundred bucks. Per the MATH that was outlined:

Resale POLY @$135/point for 175 points (you are not getting exactly 168) would make it out to be $23.6k
Direct RIV @187/point for FW of 165 points (if they did Preferred View) would make it around $30.5k (8-10 year breakeven)
Direct RIV @187/point for FW of 130 points (since they don't care if they have Preferred) would make it around $24.3k (1 year breakeven)

You are talking about $7k vs RIV Pref FW or $700 vs RIV Std FW for what the OP was looking at.

Also what benefits have been removed? I think we have went down this path before. They have increased benefits to include moonlight events I can't remember much being removed (maybe a discount on the dining plan??).

In the end you are spending X more its primarily for the AP discounting and then secondarily for freedom of point usage long term on the contract and access to other benefits that are made available. In the OPs case they could breakeven basically the first year if they did a RIV FW in a Std View.
 
I don't really care about whether it's "Disney" enough, as I think that Disney's greatest creations are original ideas that don't use pre-existing characters.. but I do think that RIV's theme just isn't focused enough.

I don't think it's enough for the place to be pretty... where am I?? Go eat at Topolino's.. so that means I'm stepping into the Italian Riviera now, right? Wait - did my server just greet me in French? *** is going on??

It just all seems very wishy washy when it comes to setting. And they throw in the whole "Remember when Walt liked to travel places?" on top of it to IDK, if you like the vibe of this place, then I certainly don't blame you... but I don't think it's WDI's best work when it comes to place-setting.

That's fair. I guess I should clarify my opinion a bit. I do agree it doesn't have ott theme which is a bit of a let down I suppose but the theme isn't why we are buying there. We are buying there because it has all the things we are looking for in a home resort meaning studios and 1 bedrooms will fit our family of 5, it has good transportation options (we don't mind the bus but we LOVE the Skyliner), EPCOT resort area was preferred, the pool has a waterslide and a great splash area.

When it was under construction I was telling DH about the rumored theme and amenities and such and he flat out said he didn't care. This resort had all the things we were looking for and isn't as stuffy as VGF and has a longer contract than BCV. I do like the more streamlined aesthetic though I do find the furniture in the lobby to be an odd choice. Yes, the lobby is small, but I can honestly say the grandness of the lobby does not affect my vacation at all. I don't care what the lobby looks like when i'm playing with the kids on the pool slide.

I wouldn't say no to some adjustments to amp up the theming a bit during a refurbished but I found it had more of a calming vibe a la SSR which we also love. We like the more adult feel you get with the wine bar and such for those adult only trips. I do like the Disney touches around also. I am even a fan of the tower style rather than the more spread out design. No long walk to your room. I do wish they had thought more about sight lines though. The proximity to CBR doesn't bother me like it does others but they could have made it a bit less obvious.
 
Also what benefits have been removed? I think we have went down this path before. They have increased benefits to include moonlight events.

Free tickets, free valet, golf for $35. Unthinkable now. Who knows what discounts they will offer 10 years from now. They are not included in membership, and can be taken away, like they have been right now, by the way.

I guess there's the new, sweet merch discount you could get with a free Disney Visa.

There are no Moonlight events in the foreseeable future of those. And you could pay $100 for a hard ticket villian party and get the same experience, assuming these events do exist again.
 
Free tickets, free valet, golf for $35. Unthinkable now. Who knows what discounts they will offer 10 years from now. They are not included in membership, and can be taken away, like they have been right now, by the way.

I guess there's the new, sweet merch discount you could get with a free Disney Visa.

There are no Moonlight events in the foreseeable future of those. And you could pay $100 for a hard ticket villian party and get the same experience, assuming these events do exist again.

Except free tickets to my knowledge were time limited to the first 10 years and had a expiration correct and was outlined in the contract and after such replaced with ticket discounts? As for Golf zero clue but has the actual price of the resort went up as there is a 25% discount you can get. Also Villain Party is discounted as well. Again would have to see the discount in comparison to price increases.

Also DVC discounting on merch is greater than the Disney Visa (20% vs 10%).

I have yet to see any tangible removal of benefits. I will also go out on the limb and say your price increase on things is associated not to removal or reduction of benefit but simply Disney raising prices on hard ticket events and golf so the DVC discount is there but it doesn't keep the price the same since the base price went up.
 
Uh, wut? Like right now?

Sorry, but you keep saying this and it is not accurate, The DVC AP has not been taken away, and those renewing are still getting the DVC price,

Those DVC members who had passes expired or canceled are being allowed to purchase new ones at the DVC price, So, DVC has not removed them as a perk,

Having said that, let’s please get back on topic for the OP in giving advice on pros and cons of Poly and RIV FW direct.
 
That's fair. I guess I should clarify my opinion a bit. I do agree it doesn't have ott theme which is a bit of a let down I suppose but the theme isn't why we are buying there. We are buying there because it has all the things we are looking for in a home resort meaning studios and 1 bedrooms will fit our family of 5, it has good transportation options (we don't mind the bus but we LOVE the Skyliner), EPCOT resort area was preferred, the pool has a waterslide and a great splash area.

When it was under construction I was telling DH about the rumored theme and amenities and such and he flat out said he didn't care. This resort had all the things we were looking for and isn't as stuffy as VGF and has a longer contract than BCV. I do like the more streamlined aesthetic though I do find the furniture in the lobby to be an odd choice. Yes, the lobby is small, but I can honestly say the grandness of the lobby does not affect my vacation at all. I don't care what the lobby looks like when i'm playing with the kids on the pool slide.

I wouldn't say no to some adjustments to amp up the theming a bit during a refurbished but I found it had more of a calming vibe a la SSR which we also love. We like the more adult feel you get with the wine bar and such for those adult only trips. I do like the Disney touches around also. I am even a fan of the tower style rather than the more spread out design. No long walk to your room. I do wish they had thought more about sight lines though. The proximity to CBR doesn't bother me like it does others but they could have made it a bit less obvious.
Dh and I were thinking that maybe they made the lobby small to stop people not staying at the resort from hanging out since it is on the skyliner. They do have a problem with people not staying at hotels (cough BWV, Poly) filling up hotel lobbies doing things like sleeping. It’s kind of gross when people do that in my opinion.
 
I don't spend five figures to maybe make a few hundred bucks in ten years. If the history of DVC has shown anything it's that these benefits go down, not up over time.
Except the value of the AP discounts has gone up over the years, not down, as APs continue to increase. Especially giving DVC members access to the Gold AP.
 
This. I have been arguing this for months now. I don't even think we need to wait until 2042 to start seeing it.

There are a TON of contracts expiring in 2042. In around 10 years your choices in the EPCOT area are going to be a restricted RIV resale with 40 years and BCV or BWV with a whopping 10 years left. At that point being restricted to RIV doesn't look so bad. I'm frankly surprised BCV hasn't started dropping yet.

My theory is that a significant portion of DVC buyers think something along the lines of "I want this while my kids are growing up, and after that it's just gravy". 10 vs 20 makes a MUCH bigger psychological difference than 20 vs 40.

I'm not saying this is rational! Even if you only intend to go for 20 years, it's better to have an asset with 20 years left on it than to have an expired contract. I bought PVB. But I do think people selling BRV and BCV right now are making out, relatively speaking.

I suspect the psychology of that will start to shift once the contract length starts to get small enough that people's kids will not all be grown when it gives up the ghost.
 

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