Pretty Sure The Car Dealership Is Ripping Me Off...

My cars are 14, 17, 30 and 52 years old, so they haven't seen a dealer service department in years. A good independent mechanic is a god send. But my independent mechanic's labor rate is $90 an hour. He needs to make $25 an hour just to pay the rent on his shop. So $100 an hour for a dealer would be a bargain.
The flip side is, there are some repairs almost HAVE to be done at the dealer due to special tools, equipment or software required, items that an independent shop may not have or can not justify buying .
Now, in the defense of your dealer, ignition repairs are no longer replacing an inexpensive switch. Almost all ignition switches now incorporate chips as part of the security system. I had to replace one on my 2003 Focus and the part alone was $200. The Youtube video on how to replace the switch involved HAMMERING the old unit out. And once it was in, my mechanic had to take it to a locksmith for $75 to have the new switch programmed to the old keys. All things that make your car harder to steal.
 
They will not only rip you off, but will even rip off their own parent company. I had a new car and went in for their free oil change. They brought me out and showed me this oil spot. The head gasket was leaking and would need to be replaced under warranty. I looked and asked ( I am a real smart ***) how much mass they had in the ceiling. After the weird look I told them that the mass in their roof must be massive as the spot is well above the head gasket so the leak must have gone up due to its gravity. It was obvious they dripped some oil from the fill. Of course they did not admit it and were telling me I would be back and it might not be under warranty then. Needless to say 160k miles and no head gasket problems.
 
I think (now that I've put it down in writing) that I'm just generally annoyed at the whole situation. We are relatively stuck with where we get the car fixed in an "emergency" (like when it won't start!) so it has to go to the dealer. I really hate taking it there due to my past experiences.

I brought my Suburban in for a "vibration" and they told me it was the wheel bearings on the RIGHT front. They (correctly) recommended that I get both left and right replaced at the same time because if the right was bad, the left would probably go bad soon too. Well, I knew that my friend would be able to repair it for 1/4 the cost so I told them to only fix the RIGHT side, which they did. Then I had my friend fix the left. About six months later, I brought it in for new brakes (never again!). The technician called me and said that while they were fixing my brakes, the noticed that my RIGHT front bearings were shot and really needed to be replaced now or the car wouldn't be safe to drive. I told him that they had just replaced the bearings and if there is something wrong with them, they can fix them under warranty. He said, "No, ma'am...we only replaced the LEFT bearings. The RIGHT ones are the ones that are bad". Uh....check again. I insisted that they had replaced the RIGHT ones and told him to check his records. When he came back on the line, he mumbled something and then said that he must have had the wrong form in front of him and my bearings were fine. Sure, right...he was trying to get me to authorize a repair over the phone that I did not even need! He tried to tell me that my car wouldn't be safe to drive without this $800 repair.

It got worse when I went to pick it up..."Ma'am, did you know that your tires are bad?" Yes, I knew I needed new tires. We had already ordered them from another store and we were getting them later that week. "Yes, but I'm not getting tires today. I just needed my brakes replaced so I am all set. Thank you, though." Then, it got ugly....
"Ma'am, let me explain...your tires are illegal" (Ok, now I am almost laughing inside to see where this is going to go.) "See, the tread depth is so poor that your tires could blow out and cause an accident. It would be unsafe for me to allow you to drive off of the lot on these tires." (So now he's threatening to hold my car hostage until I buy new tires?!) "If you were to leave with these tires, a police officer could pull you over and arrest you because they are illegal" At that point, I burst...I couldn't contain it any longer. I said, "Well, I will tell you, sir...My husband has been a police officer for over 25 years and I can guarantee you that he does not, and has never, carried a tire tread depth gauge on him while at work. He doesn't bother checking if Abe Lincoln's head sticks out of the tread either. In fact, there is no officer in this city that is going to arrest me for driving out of here, or even care about the tread depth on those tires." He didn't try to sell me any more tires. I got my receipt, paid my bill and left...with a very bitter taste in my mouth.

So basically, this experience today is just another one in a long line of self-inflicted beatings from this dealership. Like I said, if our car is driveable and we can make arrangements to be a 1-car family for a few days, my BFF's DH takes it to his shop and does all of the work on it for us. Unfortunately, his shop is 25 miles away (so the tow truck won't bring it there when the dealership is 4 miles away) and he is often away on national guard duty on weekends so finding the time for him to do the work can be a challenge.

Reminds me of a time when I took my Explorer to Firestone to get tires (My DH is an engineer for Bridgestone and he gets a nice discount but tires are all we ever get there-- he can fix almost anything on a vehicle himself). They had a whole list ($850 worth) of stuff that needed repaired "Ok, thank you for letting me know. I'll show it to my husband and we will make a decision from there." Took list home and they even had a part that "desperately needed replaced" that ironically was not even a part that my explorer had (as in, was not part of the mechanics of this vehicle). It also makes me sick to sit there while getting tires and listen to these people take advantage of elderly people that don't have anyone with them who can fix these items or advise them otherwise. Wanted to charge one lady $55 to replace her wiper blades. Makes you want to say "Honey, I'll go to walmart with you, help you find the right pair and put them on for you myself. Please don't pay these people that kind of money for something that costs $20 tops." )
My aunt also got the "illegal tires" spiel from a repair shop. Unbelievable! DH, the engineer for a tire manufacturer, looked at her tires and said they weren't even down to a "replacement" level looking at tread indicators.
 
They will not only rip you off, but will even rip off their own parent company. I had a new car and went in for their free oil change. They brought me out and showed me this oil spot. The head gasket was leaking and would need to be replaced under warranty. I looked and asked ( I am a real smart ***) how much mass they had in the ceiling. After the weird look I told them that the mass in their roof must be massive as the spot is well above the head gasket so the leak must have gone up due to its gravity. It was obvious they dripped some oil from the fill. Of course they did not admit it and were telling me I would be back and it might not be under warranty then. Needless to say 160k miles and no head gasket problems.

I've had mixed results on recalls and warranties with dealers.
I got a recall notice on my wife's car and took it in. The service writer said our car wasn't part of the recall. I handed him the recall letter, which he seemed surprised that I had gotten. After a few phone calls, they fixed. it.
And on my daughters car, the fuel pump went out. The dealer (not the one above) did some research and found out it was covered under a secret warranty, so it was a free repair. The part alone was $500,
 


Most of my car repairs are done at the shop next to my office. I have warrenty covered things done at my dealer, but the Kaltire next to my office does most repairs and maintenance. They gave us a great discount on tires to as for work my boss does a lot of business with them (I work for an aggregate producer and we buy lots of the big loader and trailer tires, not to mention all the tires for our fleet trucks. I can drop it off in the morning and they have it all day while I'm at work, no need for a loaner car.
 
I've had mixed results on recalls and warranties with dealers.
I got a recall notice on my wife's car and took it in. The service writer said our car wasn't part of the recall. I handed him the recall letter, which he seemed surprised that I had gotten. After a few phone calls, they fixed. it.
And on my daughters car, the fuel pump went out. The dealer (not the one above) did some research and found out it was covered under a secret warranty, so it was a free repair. The part alone was $500,

In your case they were worried that the company would not pay. In my case I am sure they were going to clean the oil spot , do nothing, and charge the parent company for a large bill.
 
And on my daughters car, the fuel pump went out. The dealer (not the one above) did some research and found out it was covered under a secret warranty, so it was a free repair. The part alone was $500,

There are no "secret" warranties. Manufacturers would get in SO much trouble. Maybe a recall or extension of warranty that the original dealer was too lazy to look for, but no "secret" warranties.
 


I actually have the opposite story.

My dd's 2005 Toyota is away at school. She drives home over Christmas and gets her inspection done here. The local place she took it to last year gave her a long list of needed repairs. I did want to replace the brakes, so I brought it to a different, highly recommended, place to do that. Who gave me a long list of different repairs. She brought it back to school and took it to the local Toyota dealer. We gave them the list from both places and asked them to prioritize the necessary repairs, so I could make a plan. They said: don't worry about them, not really needed right now.
 
There are no "secret" warranties. Manufacturers would get in SO much trouble. Maybe a recall or extension of warranty that the original dealer was too lazy to look for, but no "secret" warranties.
Slang term for sure, but it is the term my friends at auto dealerships use.
 
Dealer prices are insane sometimes. It does depend on the car though. I've had some expensive repairs that needed to be done for my car lately, and trusted mechanics my family knows have told me for these particular repairs, the parts are just flat out expensive.

My local dealer for my car will negotiate with me to an extent on prices and does offer a price matching option for service, so if you can find a local quote for less, the dealer will match it and take off an additional 10%. I know our dealer frequently has coupons online for service discounts. You should double check their website (if you haven't already) for any deals they might offer.

I have also had some success negotiating with my dealer on pricing, but it depends on what leverage I have. I drive a diesel and one of their idiot mechanics tried to blame my car not starting on me putting gasoline in my fuel tank because "he smelled it." I unleashed unholy hell on them for that one after confirming with the gas station that there was not somehow a mix-up in filling their USTs. I told them to keep looking and after a series of "this is the problem we'll replace the part oh hey it is still not working we'll try again" they figured out that the electrical relay to my fuel pump was bad and replaced it. It took them almost 10 days to get this figured out and done, during which they gave me a dealer loaner at no cost with unlimited miles and the repair cost me less than $100 when it was all said and done. Other times just pointing out the insane cost of the repair for something simple in an off-hand way has caused them to knock off some of the price. It all just depends who you get and the dealer's overall customer mentality.
 
Dealer prices are insane sometimes. It does depend on the car though. I've had some expensive repairs that needed to be done for my car lately, and trusted mechanics my family knows have told me for these particular repairs, the parts are just flat out expensive.

My local dealer for my car will negotiate with me to an extent on prices and does offer a price matching option for service, so if you can find a local quote for less, the dealer will match it and take off an additional 10%. I know our dealer frequently has coupons online for service discounts. You should double check their website (if you haven't already) for any deals they might offer.

I have also had some success negotiating with my dealer on pricing, but it depends on what leverage I have. I drive a diesel and one of their idiot mechanics tried to blame my car not starting on me putting gasoline in my fuel tank because "he smelled it." I unleashed unholy hell on them for that one after confirming with the gas station that there was not somehow a mix-up in filling their USTs. I told them to keep looking and after a series of "this is the problem we'll replace the part oh hey it is still not working we'll try again" they figured out that the electrical relay to my fuel pump was bad and replaced it. It took them almost 10 days to get this figured out and done, during which they gave me a dealer loaner at no cost with unlimited miles and the repair cost me less than $100 when it was all said and done. Other times just pointing out the insane cost of the repair for something simple in an off-hand way has caused them to knock off some of the price. It all just depends who you get and the dealer's overall customer mentality.

My issue in recent years has been the poor quality of replacement parts. A life time warranty on an alternator doesn't help me when I'm stuck somewhere because it has failed.
 
I'm stubborn enough that I would have it towed to your friend's shop, rent the cheapest wreck I could find for a few days, and never go to that dealership again. My DM is 66 and has spent DECADES letting dealerships rip her off despite my begging her to go to a local, reputable, independent shop.

Terri
This is my entire family. My dad, my mom, my sister.. all act like if you dare to go to anyone but the dealer you might as well be pouring sugar in your gas tank.:rolleyes:
I’m done trying to convince them. Let them pay thousands more for simple repairs. It amazes me how stubborn they can be, but hey.. it’s their money.
 
I hate, hate, hate going to a service department at a dealer. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. When we had our Lincoln I took it there for only because it was still under a warranty at the time (it was the only car I've ever owned that was new enough to still be under a manufacturer warranty, lol). They tried to sell me 4 very expensive tires while I was there for something totally unrelated, and talked to me like I had no understanding of cars whatsoever (I'm a woman, after all, so ya know...).... I'm definitely not an auto expert but I grew up assisting my father who has rebuilt cars from the bolts up and did nearly all repair work on all of our cars growing up, so while I couldn't repair a car myself, I can do basic tasks and I know what parts do what, and can generally pinpoint where a problem is originating when it happens, and as such can also smell bull a mile away. So I hate the condescending garbage I sometimes get from these places. I always go to an independent shop... and even then, I have a few in my wheelhouse where I will only use one for a particular service and a different person for larger repairs, in order to stretch my dollar while still getting good quality of work. I do sometimes wish my DH was more into cars so I didn't have to rely on shops as much as I have to, since I don't live close to my parents now.
 
Well, DH went and picked up the truck since I got stuck at work. He didn't say anything at all, just paid the bill and left. Afterward, he told me that he is frustrated, like me, but he too knows that unless we are willing to go to a shop that will have our vehicle for days or weeks, there is nothing we can do. This is the only place around that can do major repairs in a short amount of time. I talked to one of our fleet mechanics at work and he made me feel a little better. He said that 4 hours of labor would be about right...5.5 was a bit much, but he said that sometimes, they will hit you a little harder around the holidays:rolleyes:. It was never really about the cost, it was more about the fact that I felt like they were hitting us with labor amounts that were way more than the industry standard. When I finally found a reliable mechanic who almost validated their charges, I felt a little better about it.
 
Yes, it is frustrating.

I am an engineer and a do it yourself mechanic (rebuilt engines, rebuilt transmissions etc). I use the dealers for warranty work.

Here are a couple of quick stories.

1. 2003 Ford Explorer with 28k miles and rear differential problems still under warranty so I take it to the dealer. Dealership calls to tell me the work is done but I need front brakes. I declined and they told me it was too dangerous for them to let me take my vehicle. I tell them I am on my way and I am not paying them for front brakes. I pick up the car, stop at the parts store and get replacement pads. I tell my wife that I am busy Saturday morning doing brakes. Saturday morning comes, I pull the front tires, brakes are like brand new. Put tires back on, put brake pads on shelf.

Oh. regarding the above differential work- just to those who think a dealer does better work. This dealer forgot to torque the rear drivers side hub bearing nut (203ft lbs) so that bearing went bad at 50k miles. How do I know? First they had to take the hub apart to fix the rear differential. I opted to replace the bearing myself and when I went to remove that nut it was only on hand tight. The passengers side nut was torqued to the correct 180ft lbs. Just to explain, 203 ft lbs is a lot. You have to use a 5ft long pipe (cheater bar) over your breaker bar to get enough leverage.

2. Ford Taurus with bad water pump. I thought it was under warranty so I take it to the dealer. Dealer calls me later and tells me that my car is not under warranty, it will cost $600 to replace the water pump. I decline and go get the car. Service writer tells me that I cannot replace the water pump because they have to remove the motor from the bottom to get to the water pump. I plan the job for all day Saturday and Sunday. I start at 9am on Saturday, remove the windshield washer reservoir and there is the water pump right in my face. I am done by 10:30am and that included stopping and going to the store to get some gasket sealant.

3. Ford Explorer (same as above) was approx. 1 year old and with only 6k miles. Take it to dealer to fix cruise control which is under warranty. Service writer insists on selling me the 15k mile service package for $400 (even though I only have 6k miles). I can see his screen and it is an oil change and air filter change, and then just a bunch of inspections (translation: lookie look to find an upsell). I decline.
 
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Well, DH went and picked up the truck since I got stuck at work. He didn't say anything at all, just paid the bill and left. Afterward, he told me that he is frustrated, like me, but he too knows that unless we are willing to go to a shop that will have our vehicle for days or weeks, there is nothing we can do. This is the only place around that can do major repairs in a short amount of time. I talked to one of our fleet mechanics at work and he made me feel a little better. He said that 4 hours of labor would be about right...5.5 was a bit much, but he said that sometimes, they will hit you a little harder around the holidays:rolleyes:. It was never really about the cost, it was more about the fact that I felt like they were hitting us with labor amounts that were way more than the industry standard. When I finally found a reliable mechanic who almost validated their charges, I felt a little better about it.

I don't know if this would be an option, but have you looked into AAA? The plus plan will tow you up to 100 miles to the mechanic of your choice. The prices vary depending on which club you are a member of, but for DH and I (two cards), it's under $100 a year. Then at least you could have it towed to where you want.

I had a similar situation with my car. Something was going bad that my uncle couldn't fix, so we took it to the dealer and told them it would continue to die unless you gave it gas. He knew what was wrong with it and told them to fix nothing else as he would repair it. They charged me an hour of labor because they told me it took them that long to get it in the garage (all of 20 feet) because it kept dying on them! Then they replaced several other things at four times the cost. He told them to take their parts back off and put the old back on as those weren't authorized. They had already disposed of them, so I ended up with those parts and labor for free.
 
I don't know if this would be an option, but have you looked into AAA? The plus plan will tow you up to 100 miles to the mechanic of your choice. The prices vary depending on which club you are a member of, but for DH and I (two cards), it's under $100 a year. Then at least you could have it towed to where you want.

I had a similar situation with my car. Something was going bad that my uncle couldn't fix, so we took it to the dealer and told them it would continue to die unless you gave it gas. He knew what was wrong with it and told them to fix nothing else as he would repair it. They charged me an hour of labor because they told me it took them that long to get it in the garage (all of 20 feet) because it kept dying on them! Then they replaced several other things at four times the cost. He told them to take their parts back off and put the old back on as those weren't authorized. They had already disposed of them, so I ended up with those parts and labor for free.
My old car did that. It would occasionally stall when I took my foot off the gas. The dealer replaced the fuel pump but that didn't correct it. When I went back to tell them it wasn't fixed they just said well the fuel pump wasn't working at 100% so....

Turns out it was the idle motor and it cost less than $200 to replace. Yes, I had the dealer do the work but never went back again.
 
My mechanic cousin tells me that the dealerships have a list of how long a job is 'supposed' to take and they use that list to know how much labor to charge for. I've had some luck negotiating a 10% discount at my Subaru dealership for almost every repair I've had to pay for by simply asking.

In your case, I think you are probably just stuck. You are asking for a rush job, and a rush job always calls for a premium upcharge in any industry. They are fitting you in between other jobs that they've already planned for. You might find the price would be lower if you told them you were in no hurry and you'd be okay with having it done for next week.
 
My mechanic cousin tells me that the dealerships have a list of how long a job is 'supposed' to take and they use that list to know how much labor to charge for. .

That's a "Flat Rate" book they use. Service writers love it because it gives them an idea of how much to estimate the repair will cost. But I know more than one mechanic that hate flat rate because it says some repairs can be done in less time than some mechanics feel is humanly possible.
 
I've had mixed results on recalls and warranties with dealers.
I got a recall notice on my wife's car and took it in. The service writer said our car wasn't part of the recall. I handed him the recall letter, which he seemed surprised that I had gotten. After a few phone calls, they fixed. it.
And on my daughters car, the fuel pump went out. The dealer (not the one above) did some research and found out it was covered under a secret warranty, so it was a free repair. The part alone was $500,

They is no such thing as a "secret warranty". I used to work for customer assistance at Chevrolet. The warranty on any vehicle is provided to you with the purchase of a new vehicle by the manufacturer. It is public and something the company must stand behind. Nothing secret about it. There are times when the manufacturer will become aware a large number of a certain make/model is having an ongoing issue...typically not something safety related, but it could be.....that they decide to cover for repairs beyond the terms of the warranty. This made be done to forestall a recall, or to keep up the reputation of the company. Dealers are made aware of these special policies and know those repairs can be billed to the manufacturer.

The best example of a special policy I can remember is for paint delamination. What a nightmare! So many 80's and early 90's model vehicles that had the paint just peel off, especially gray colors and on horizontal surfaces. If I remember right, the special policy was for 10 years and unlimited miles. Bring it in and it would be repainted.

There was also something called a service bulletin. That was repair info the company provided to the dealers. If vehicle has x failure, here is how to repair it. Had nothing to do with who paid for the repair.

Then there was the thing called Goodwill Assistance which was what I dealt with and was able to authorize. Goodwill was paying for a repair on a vehicle that was no longer under the terms of the new vehicle warranty due to age age/miles in order to retain owner loyalty and increase repurchase intent. It was fun to make people happy spending Chevrolet money :-). Based on a variety of factors ( nature of failure, age/miles out of warranty, owner loyalty to Chevrolet/GM/dealer, etc) we could authorize a percentage of the repair....usually from 50 to 100%. Not sure if this still exists, but always worth checking out with your dealer. Obviously, the closer to in-warranty a vehicle is, the better the odds. So is vehicle history...if you had a repair done under warranty and now out of warranty it fails again, you may get help. And to the chagrin of some owners, all vehicles reach a point where the cost of repairs become the responsibility of the owner. Of course, it would have to be a repair that would have been a warranty. Negligence and damage need not apply.

Sorry to go on so long, but once I got started I thought this might help some people.
 

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