Resale - BLT vs Wilderness Lodge

[Cbrown817]

Hi everyone! Newbie here. Thinking of buying DVC resale and wanted to get people's thoughts on Bay Lake Tower and Wilderness Lodge. Price per point is higher for BLT but maintenance fee is higher per point for WL.. wonder if that would be a wash in the end after so many years.

BLT seems attractive to me now because our kids are small and I like the idea of being able to walk to MK. But boat ride from WL may not be so bad either.

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on these two. Thanks!

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Just remember: Boulder Ridge and Copper Creek are entirely separate entities. BRV has an end date of 2042, and the new amenities now shared with CCV are driving some of the maintenance cost.

If you're looking at studios, know that BLT Standard Studios sleep 4 and are hard to get sometimes even as an owner, so you will want points for Lake View. BRV Studios sleep 5.

The feel of the two resorts is VERY different. You will find that as a DVC owner you spend less time as a park warrior if you're like most, and this will matter when that happens.

 

[citivas]

There's no right or wrong answer on this, it's all personal preference and priorities. I picked BLT because I love the walk to MK and being able to do so totally changed how we experience the parks. What we found is even on days where we went to one of the other parks for the day and returned to the hotel for a break and dinner, we would tend to go back to the MK most nights to experience some things at night just because it we could and it was so easy. I hadn't bothered hanging out for the electric light parade for years but did because of how easy it was to chill at the hotel then head over for it. We also like being at a "monorail" resort where we can get to Epcot or all the restaurants at the Poly and GF without a car or bus. Also took the boat to Wilderness. And the marina at the Contemporary that is walking distance from BLT was also useful -- my kids did parasailing, etc. We also like to be at the parks for rope drop, so being able to time that with walking rather than being reliant on parking, the monorail or ferry, etc., was a huge plus. And we really like the view of the fireworks and the overall size and amenities of the 2 bedroom villas. And we don't mind the modern theming -- theme is nice but a low priority for us. We get enough of it at the parks. As you noted, BLT also has one of the lower maintenance fees. And it's easy to rent out points from BLT which are in demand.

For others, theming is important and Wilderness Lodge as a great theme.

In terms of the cost of the points, if you're getting the older resort at Wilderness, your points will expire almost 20 years sooner than BLT, so if you do the math on the lifetime value of the points and the maintenance fees, BLT because the better deal. If you're getting Copper Creek, is resale really so much less than new that it's worth it?

Good luck in any event.

 

[Dean]

Hi everyone! Newbie here. Thinking of buying DVC resale and wanted to get people's thoughts on Bay Lake Tower and Wilderness Lodge. Price per point is higher for BLT but maintenance fee is higher per point for WL.. wonder if that would be a wash in the end after so many years.

BLT seems attractive to me now because our kids are small and I like the idea of being able to walk to MK. But boat ride from WL may not be so bad either.

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on these two. Thanks!

BLT will be cheaper long term and has the advantage of the standard view option plus a longer RTU than BR, it is the better value $$ wise.

 

[CraigInPA]

I'd caution you on that "boat ride". At the end of the night, when you want to get home from MK, boats are mobbed. You might be waiting for quite a while to get on. And, I can remember one case where we had late dinner reservations at Artist Point, not thinking to check the MK schedule (which dictates when the boats run). It seems that the MK closed early that night, so when we came out of dinner, our only Disney transportation choice was to take a bus to Disney Springs and then a bus to our own resort, or to cab (pre-Uber) it. We chose the $6 cab ride over the prospect of blowing 90 minutes on buses. We looked at buying WL (now Boulder Ridge) resale (and actually made an offer on one contract), but with it expiring in 2042 and the higher maintenance fees, it didn't really work for us unless we could buy it very cheap (our offer was rejected, undoubtedly because we offered what would make it work for us versus what the market was saying it was worth).

My wife and I chose BLT for the convenience of walking to MK, and the quick ride on the monorail to the Epcot monorail. We had originally wanted to buy at Poly (walk to the Epcot monorail, monorail to the MK), but weren't thrilled with the renovations to the Poly common areas (we'd been going there since the 1970's, so the nostalgia factor was destroyed), nor did we like the choice of longhouses used by DVC (we prefer the other end of the Poly, near the marina). The downside to BLT is that it isn't as beautifully themed as the Poly, and the studios are smaller. We got enough points for a 10 night stay in a lake view studio. There's nothing like a trip to TOTWL for a night cap and to watch the fireworks, and then sitting on your balcony watching the electric light parade on the water after a long day in the park.

 

[deedubb]

One bedroom villas at BLT have 2 bathrooms. That, and the ability to walk to MK clinched it for us.

 

[Cbrown817]

Thanks everyone for your input!!! Very helpful!

 

[bobbiwoz]

I think the VWL choice has to be made because you really really like the Wilderness Lodge and you want to stay in that area regardless of convenience to anything.

It’s our heart’s choice, no doubt about it, but we have not stayed there because of the construction of the Copper Creek DVC units, it was too sad to us to see where there used to be trees. Now that construction is over, we’re staying there this December, but at one of the new cabins.

 

[disneynutz]

We own BRV and BLT, for us BRV wins hands down, staying at CCV and BRV after Thanksgiving. It is it's own special place and Disney has done a great job with the new pool area.

Bill

 

[peabody58]

2 bathrooms in 1BR at BLT - huge benefit!

 

[Wakey]

I would be reticent to buy at Wilderness Lodge due to end date of 2042. Yes you may think that will last you, but I’d buy with a view to selling on in 2040 etc, and it will be worth very little then. Bear in mind contracts may be worth a lot more by then so it could be kissing goodbye to getting your money back or better when it comes to sell.
I like Wilderness Lodge very much, the problem with CCV is that the 1 beds are small. Studios are fine though if that’s what you want.
I would not buy BLT for a studio, just too small for my liking. Probably worst studios on property size wise. If it were just a couple, no problem, but a family no way.
I would buy BLT for the 1 beds which are some of the best on property. In fact I am going in one next July.
As others have said the advantage of ownership of BLT is the standard rooms at 11 month which are v good value. I get a 1 bed in summer and there are only 3 categories you generally have no chance at, on 7 months, this is the order they go first- BLT Standard; AKL Club; AKL Value. So BLT standard is the most popular room category on property in my experience.
The only other downside to BLT aside from the small studios and quite high non standard points, is the theming. It’s concrete and glass. It can be a bit stark, Contemporary more so. As I’m an overseas visitor I come for 10+ days at a time. BLT is a great choice for half of that stay, do the good restaurants, MK and Epcot, but I then like to get to a more themed, relaxing and pretty resort for the other half.

 

[disneynutz]

They extended the OKW end date for a price, good chance that they will do the same for other resorts. We figured zero value at the end of our contracts, owning your favorite resorts has a cost but to us it's worth it.

Bill

 

[Ben E N]

They extended the OKW end date for a price, good chance that they will do the same for other resorts. We figured zero value at the end of our contracts, owning your favorite resorts has a cost but to us it's worth it.

Bill

There is also a good chance that they do not, though. OKW is in a bit of a unique situation where it is a more 'moderate' resort, unattached to any transportation or parks/Disney Springs. I don't think that anyone disagrees that both BCV and BWV are undervalued in terms of their points per night cost. That is helping keep the resale market so strong for these. If they continue to make new resorts with high per night costs, such as 25 points per night for Poly studios, the 10 per night of BWV standard views is skewed way too low. I could see Disney allowing these contracts to expire, spend a year or so doing a basic remodel, and then selling them as 'new' with a higher points per night cost.
The same is possible, but a bit less likely, for BRV. Those rooms can sleep more and are larger than CCV, yet they cost the same. They could do s remodel, adding a bathroom per room or something along those lines, and then increase the points per night cost by 20% or so. I personally do not think that will happen, but would not bank on that contract automatically being renewed.

It is also worth noting that the OKW extended contracts were offered 10 years ago, when there were 35 years left on their contracts. BRV, BCV, and BWV are all sitting at 25 years remaining, with no present signs of a contract extension being offered.

 

[viper17d]

We bought at BRV resale a year and a half ago and then added on direct at CCV in March. As you can imagine, we love the Wilderness Lodge.

15 years from now, you won't really care that much about value. If you're buying in looking to sell in 2040, you're buying in for the wrong reason. Sure, people sell because their vacationing changes or a financial hardship drives the decision, but don't go into this as an investment. Any number of things impacts the value of these in resale, and even though we have seen prices rise over the last few years, it doesn't mean they will continue to do so.

I'll go back to what I said at the start. We love the Wilderness Lodge. Prior to buying in, we stayed at BLT and while the location was nice (we found ourselves walking more than using the monorail), not having any set theme pulled as back from the magic of Disney rather than keeping us immersed. We don't have kids yet, but we also know what kind of vacation we want for our kids. We vacation to Disney for the magic, not for convenience.

To speak briefly on the boat ride to Wilderness Lodge: it is the perfect way to start and end a day - calming, serene, scenic. Yes, sometimes you wait in lines coming back from the park, but that is really only if you leave at peak times (if you stay a little later or leave a little earlier, you can avoid them).

On the renovations for CCV: really well done. The new pool area is very nice. The cabins are amazing. Geyser Point (the new restaurant / open air bar on the lake) has become my favorite resort restaurant. Wilderness Lodge feels like a new resort.

Last point - sorry for rambling - the smell of the lobby in Wilderness Lodge, the sound of the stream, and the western-themed music scores... nothing beats that.

 

[disneynutz]

All we can do is wait and see. Disney will do what ever makes them the most money, extend the contracts, sell new contracts for the same property or tear the buildings down and build new ones for sale.

Bill

 

[4luv2cdisney]

There is also a good chance that they do not, though. OKW is in a bit of a unique situation where it is a more 'moderate' resort, unattached to any transportation or parks/Disney Springs. I don't think that anyone disagrees that both BCV and BWV are undervalued in terms of their points per night cost. That is helping keep the resale market so strong for these. If they continue to make new resorts with high per night costs, such as 25 points per night for Poly studios, the 10 per night of BWV standard views is skewed way too low. I could see Disney allowing these contracts to expire, spend a year or so doing a basic remodel, and then selling them as 'new' with a higher points per night cost.
The same is possible, but a bit less likely, for BRV. Those rooms can sleep more and are larger than CCV, yet they cost the same. They could do s remodel, adding a bathroom per room or something along those lines, and then increase the points per night cost by 20% or so. I personally do not think that will happen, but would not bank on that contract automatically being renewed.

It is also worth noting that the OKW extended contracts were offered 10 years ago, when there were 35 years left on their contracts. BRV, BCV, and BWV are all sitting at 25 years remaining, with no present signs of a contract extension being offered.

Nobody knows what will happen.

It seems like people didn't like (and many didn't take) the extension offer at OKW because it was offered too soon. I think many BWV/BCV/BRV owners would jump at an extension offer even now but especially 5-10 years from now. The problem is it creates a bit of a mess having 1 resort 2 end dates, so who knows if they'll ever try that again.

I think BRV has the best chance at an extension because the point chart is the same at CCV. I think Disney can "up" the point req's for BWV and BCV quite a bit and that will be worth the "remodel / resell as new" approach.

I bought BWV direct. I would love an extension, but I'm not hopeful. I have no intention of selling and really no need for a later end date for myself. I would like a later end date to hand contract down to kids, but that will have to be a later add on at another resort. When my BWV points are no longer useful to me (if ever) and they are worth little on the resale market, I will rent them out.

 

[Dean]

I'd caution you on that "boat ride". At the end of the night, when you want to get home from MK, boats are mobbed. You might be waiting for quite a while to get on. And, I can remember one case where we had late dinner reservations at Artist Point, not thinking to check the MK schedule (which dictates when the boats run). It seems that the MK closed early that night, so when we came out of dinner, our only Disney transportation choice was to take a bus to Disney Springs and then a bus to our own resort, or to cab (pre-Uber) it. We chose the $6 cab ride over the prospect of blowing 90 minutes on buses. We looked at buying WL (now Boulder Ridge) resale (and actually made an offer on one contract), but with it expiring in 2042 and the higher maintenance fees, it didn't really work for us unless we could buy it very cheap (our offer was rejected, undoubtedly because we offered what would make it work for us versus what the market was saying it was worth).

My wife and I chose BLT for the convenience of walking to MK, and the quick ride on the monorail to the Epcot monorail. We had originally wanted to buy at Poly (walk to the Epcot monorail, monorail to the MK), but weren't thrilled with the renovations to the Poly common areas (we'd been going there since the 1970's, so the nostalgia factor was destroyed), nor did we like the choice of longhouses used by DVC (we prefer the other end of the Poly, near the marina). The downside to BLT is that it isn't as beautifully themed as the Poly, and the studios are smaller. We got enough points for a 10 night stay in a lake view studio. There's nothing like a trip to TOTWL for a night cap and to watch the fireworks, and then sitting on your balcony watching the electric light parade on the water after a long day in the park.

I would not be overly concerned buying a 2042 resort if it's a good choice ignoring the RTU. What I would do would be to consider this as part of the pricing. The later years have a lower value today than the ones that are closer. There will always be options if one still wants to participate and your resort is ending. I'm torn on the extension issue but given their track record, even if they do offer one it's unlikely to be a reasonable choice. IF one wants longer SSR & BLT are the best values $$$ wise.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I'm in the boat that thinks that BCV and BWV will just end, no extensions offered, and they'll be remodeled to the tastes of 2043, whatever those are, the points per night will jack up, and it will be resold at $250+++ per point (I'm not even going to try to compute the inflationary rates of 2043).

BRV is a little more likely to get an extension, I think, because of how it links to CCV for amenities and the inevitable impact of it going empty or to cash on dues.

 

[Ben E N]

It seems like people didn't like (and many didn't take) the extension offer at OKW because it was offered too soon. I think many BWV/BCV/BRV owners would jump at an extension offer even now but especially 5-10 years from now. The problem is it creates a bit of a mess having 1 resort 2 end dates, so who knows if they'll ever try that again.

This is a good point. Extensions were most likely a one-time attempt that they realized really does not work to DVC's advantage. In 2043, what does Disney do? Sell just 15 year contracts at OKW for a very small price, or sell 50 year contracts and have yet even more offset contracts once 2058 comes along? Just seems like a bit of a headache.

It is possible that BRV gets sold so that its expiration falls around CCV, but the same issue comes up for the people who do not take the extension in that case. It is probably just easiest to let these contracts expire, remodel the resort, and then adjust the point structure so that they are able to sell 200k more points and make enough extra profit to more than offset the cost of the renovation and downtime compared to just extending the old contracts.

 

[iheartglaciers]

I wonder if they'll offer an extension at one of the resorts so they don't have three offline in remodel since BRV, BCV, and BWV all expire the same year.