Trans couple too afraid to go to Florida - how accepting is Disneyland?

[EACarlson]

I'm saddened that those disagreeing that LGBTQIA+ have reason to fear travel in Florida think this a thread for debate when it's located in a support forum. DISboards' description of forum's purpose: "This is a forum for Gay, Lesbian, Bi and Transgender guests and their family and friends to share information on their Disney Experiences"

In this area, debating that LGBTQIA+ people feel threatened in Florida shows disregard and disrespect for others' feelings and concerns. Anyone coming here for that reason is hardly a friend.

This is not a support forum, in the description of the forum it specifically states "share information on their Disney Experiences". I've never seen nor experienced any negativity due to someone's real or perceived sexual orientation or gender identity at WDW or anywhere else in Florida. No one in this thread has shared any negative experiences. I've witnessed many more incidents at pride parades than I ever have anywhere in Florida.

Nobody is debating that some people feel threatened in Florida, people are debating whether or not they feel others should feel threatened.

 

[starlite_]

I was at the movies today and there was a man in the women's bathroom. He needed a bit of assistance and there was a woman waiting by the sinks to help him. Coming out of the restroom was a woman and her maybe 7 or 8 year old son.

Two males in the women's bathroom. Neither of which caused me any concern. I honestly would not have thought anything else of it except for this thread.

Situations like I described or men identifying as a woman (or similar) does not concern me. People just need to be able to go to the bathroom.

"Men identifying as a woman" you just love invalidating trans ppl and writing like gender critical folks, don't you??

 

[nw6675]

"Men identifying as a woman" you just love invalidating trans ppl and writing like gender critical folks, don't you??

OBVIOUSLY that was not my intent to be critical. Sometimes the supportive hetero community doesn't get it quite right in the phrasing, but it should be noted that what I DON'T love is people looking for an argument with people who don't want to see a group marginalized. I'm not the enemy - you have plenty of those in society including on this thread.

 

[starlite_]

OBVIOUSLY that was not my intent to be critical. Sometimes the supportive hetero community doesn't get it quite right in the phrasing, but it should be noted that what I DON'T love is people looking for an argument with people who don't want to see a group marginalized. I'm not the enemy - you have plenty of those in society including on this thread.

Good to hear that. Next time, if you are truly an ally, I hope you'll be careful not to repeat gender critical phrases that make it sound like trans ppl are cosplaying gender.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

OBVIOUSLY that was not my intent to be critical. Sometimes the supportive hetero community doesn't get it quite right in the phrasing, but it should be noted that what I DON'T love is people looking for an argument with people who don't want to see a group marginalized. I'm not the enemy - you have plenty of those in society including on this thread.

For what it is worth, my trans brother described his transition as “feeling like a boy inside even though he was a born a girl,” so he wanted to change to “look more like how he feels.” Even he acknowledges that he isn’t a biological male though. He has lived as a man for the past decade or so, but as a doctor he understands the biological differences (and limitations). As long as people try to be respectful he doesn’t get upset if someone might not phrase things exactly right. There are enough people in this world who are not supportive - no need to also fight with the ones that are trying.

Separately, with respect to Pride and Disney, I was just in Florida. I was amazed at how much Pride merchandise was available at Disney. There is a ton of support for the LGBT community there. We also met a non-binary cast member who was wonderful in our multiple interactions with them, and they gave me a great opportunity (organically) to talk about gender issues with my kids.

 

[ClaraOswald]

To the LGBTQ+ people in this thread, I just want to say that I'm sorry that this forum, which should be a 'safe' space, has turned into the opposite with several bigots showing up just to spout nonsense. I am thankful for the "ignore" feature.

Just know that there are a lot of us cishet folks out here who fully support you and will stand up and fight for you! I know the current state of this country is terrifying, in general. And even more difficult in some states (I'm in the midwest...yikes.) But keep fighting! We can't let the extremist, tinfoil hat-wearing bigots win.

 

[Disneychick13]

For what it is worth, my trans brother described his transition as “feeling like a boy inside even though he was a born a girl,” so he wanted to change to “look more like how he feels.” Even he acknowledges that he isn’t a biological male though. He has lived as a man for the past decade or so, but as a doctor he understands the biological differences (and limitations). As long as people try to be respectful he doesn’t get upset if someone might not phrase things exactly right. There are enough people in this world who are not supportive - no need to also fight with the ones that are trying.

Separately, with respect to Pride and Disney, I was just in Florida. I was amazed at how much Pride merchandise was available at Disney. There is a ton of support for the LGBT community there. We also met a non-binary cast member who was wonderful in our multiple interactions with them, and they gave me a great opportunity (organically) to talk about gender issues with my kids.

Thank you for posting this. I suspect many are like your brother. I think there are terms that could be used that are meant to be in a bigoted way and terms that are just meant in a categorical way. There is a difference. And when people paint any deviation in their preferred terminology with a broad brush it is not helpful to anyone.

 

[starlite_]

Thank you for posting this. I suspect many are like your brother. I think there are terms that could be used that are meant to be in a bigoted way and terms that are just meant in a categorical way. There is a difference. And when people paint any deviation in their preferred terminology with a broad brush it is not helpful to anyone.

The issue is not preferred terminology. Everyone will have a dif opinion on this and for a lot of LGBT+ folks it might get very out there (like neo-pronouns) so most folks are pretty lenient on this since expecting everyone to get it right the first time is pretty unreasonable.

The issue is using language created by gender critical ppl (like terfs and other assorted bigots) to invalidate trans ppl. It would be the same as using misogynist language created by incels.

Still, everyone makes mistakes and it's ok to do so. Doubling down is a no no, and I might have responded defensibly with the other poster considering they have made some pretty troll-y posts in this forum before.

 

[crisi]

Wow. Florida people are not like that. You people are making it out to be something it’s not. I’m getting more afraid of you folks causing an incident to prove your point just from reading this thread. See how unreasonable that statement is….no different than some of the remarks on this thread. Calm down and please stop the unnecessary fear mongering. Seriously, stay home if you really think that.

SOME Florida people are like that. Some people all over the country are like that. The problem is that Florida has elected politicians and put judges in place and has passed laws that could turn a few people's bigotry into a living hell for a transperson who is arrested - and a transperson is more likely to be arrested in Florida for being trans based off these laws. This is true in several states - while several others (perhaps most notably Massachusetts) have gone the other direction in protecting the rights of those who are gender non-conforming.

If you don't want people to think Floridians are like that - Florida needs to be a place that doesn't ban books in school because they depict gender non-conformity or outlaw drag shows - that means electing different politicians and getting rid of the ones you have. It means the Floridians who "aren't like that" need to stand up and be seen and heard. That isn't happening. Silence is complicity.

 

[vakamalua]

Well said! Protest, speak up, VOTE!

SOME Florida people are like that. Some people all over the country are like that. The problem is that Florida has elected politicians and put judges in place and has passed laws that could turn a few people's bigotry into a living hell for a transperson who is arrested - and a transperson is more likely to be arrested in Florida for being trans based off these laws. This is true in several states - while several others (perhaps most notably Massachusetts) have gone the other direction in protecting the rights of those who are gender non-conforming.

If you don't want people to think Floridians are like that - Florida needs to be a place that doesn't ban books in school because they depict gender non-conformity or outlaw drag shows - that means electing different politicians and getting rid of the ones you have. It means the Floridians who "aren't like that" need to stand up and be seen and heard. That isn't happening. Silence is complicity.

 

[P'colaBeachBum]

SOME Florida people are like that. Some people all over the country are like that. The problem is that Florida has elected politicians and put judges in place and has passed laws that could turn a few people's bigotry into a living hell for a transperson who is arrested - and a transperson is more likely to be arrested in Florida for being trans based off these laws. This is true in several states - while several others (perhaps most notably Massachusetts) have gone the other direction in protecting the rights of those who are gender non-conforming.

If you don't want people to think Floridians are like that - Florida needs to be a place that doesn't ban books in school because they depict gender non-conformity or outlaw drag shows - that means electing different politicians and getting rid of the ones you have. It means the Floridians who "aren't like that" need to stand up and be seen and heard. That isn't happening. Silence is complicity.

I was not going to post here again since an but was quoted. I’m not going to address your post due to it not all based in fact. I originally posted because of the topic. OP was afraid to go to WDW and asked if Disneyland was more accepting to trans people. Go back and read my first posts. Again, if you feel uncomfortable due to laws here, don’t come. As I stated before there are places I won’t visit. I have said all I’m going to here. Take care.

 

[crisi]

Based on advice from civil rights experts..... which are based on fact and legal expertise.

https://floridatraveladvisory.com/
https://www.wesh.com/article/florida-travel-warnings/43994330

 

[Disneychick13]

Based on advice from civil rights experts..... which are based on fact and legal expertise.

https://floridatraveladvisory.com/
https://www.wesh.com/article/florida-travel-warnings/43994330

I mean…..I can’t……I just…….these hit pieces that have a poor legal basis and play loose with facts are precisely the reason the original poster posted the question that they did. It’s really a shame. I’m pretty sure any good writer could pen an article that says a travel advisory should be issued for literally any state in the union if they have such a wanton disregard for actual data and interpretation of that data.

If someone wants to “boycott” travel to a state because they disagree with state policies then that is totally reasonable. It defies logic and reason to issue these bogus travel advisories for an issue of the day you don’t agree with. This is political pure and simple.

All that being said, whether it is reasonable or not, if you don’t feel comfortable traveling to a state or city then don’t go.

 

[Apthorp76]

To the LGBTQ+ people in this thread, I just want to say that I'm sorry that this forum, which should be a 'safe' space, has turned into the opposite with several bigots showing up just to spout nonsense. I am thankful for the "ignore" feature.

Just know that there are a lot of us cishet folks out here who fully support you and will stand up and fight for you! I know the current state of this country is terrifying, in general. And even more difficult in some states (I'm in the midwest...yikes.) But keep fighting! We can't let the extremist, tinfoil hat-wearing bigots win.

Thank you for saying that.

This board has so many good things and there are so many genuinely helpful people it's easy to be put off by some of the posts here. We all like Disney but a lot of the time you will see the same sort of energy here that you find on Twitter.

 

[kristenabelle]

This is THEE most stupid thread I’ve ever seen. Nobody, but nobody in Florida is out to harm gay folks.

A law that says don’t talk about gayness to third graders is a threat??? Grow up.

Be gay. Nobody here in Florida cares. NOBODY. And violence???? No. Show me.

To be honest, drag queens will be snickered at EVERYWHERE…. But Florida has no more violence against them than any other state.

If we could only harness the stupidity.

This is factually incorrect: https://apnews.com/article/desantis-florida-dont-say-gay-ban-684ed25a303f83208a89c556543183cb

Can you imagine being a teacher, whether it's kindergarten or high school, and fearing for your job and well-being because you accidentally slipped and revealed you had a same-sex partner or spouse? I can't even fathom that pressure, stress, and cruelty. All my teachers growing up referenced husbands and wives in passing, and now it could jeopardize their careers in Florida? Regardless of whatever the "intent" of the law was (which I vehemently disagree with) - the text was written so vaguely that haphazard enforcement is making teachers fear for their futures simply by being who they are.

Editing to add: have you ever had to think, if I have a healthcare emergency -- will the EMT, doctor, etc. refuse to help me because of who I am? Or the care I need? Those are questions folks are having to ask themselves.

Not to mention that where I am, drag queens often lead story hours. It's a wonderful way to encourage reading, self-expression, self-love, and acceptance, and now in Florida drag has been demonized - a far cry from "snickering."

One of the biggest violent acts in modern times countrywide, and certainly in Florida, took place at a gay nightclub.

It's a perfectly fair feeling to question if traveling to a state actively passing laws targeting a community (transgender folks and the broader LGBTQIA+ spectrum) is safe, and what other folks in the community have felt and experience. It's shameful that people come here seeking comfort, advice, help, EMPATHY, and are getting eye rolls or worse.

 

[hrhdhd]

One of the biggest violent acts in modern times countrywide, and certainly in Florida, took place at a gay nightclub.

Let me address this point, which implies that Omar Mateen knew Pulse was a gay club (from Huffington Post):
"As far as investigators could tell, Mateen had never been to Pulse before, whether as a patron or to case the nightclub. Even prosecutors acknowledged in their closing statement that Pulse was not his original target; it was the Disney Springs shopping and entertainment complex. They presented evidence demonstrating that Mateen chose Pulse randomly less than an hour before the attack. It is not clear he even knew it was a gay bar. A security guard recalled Mateen asking where all the women were, apparently in earnest, in the minutes before he began his slaughter."

A terrible tragedy? Yes. Designed to kill as many people as possible? Yes. Targeted at LGBTQs? No.

Regarding the idea that teachers can't disclose their partners, that's also untrue.
https://news.yahoo.com/florida-teachers-being-told-cant-153212732.html

It would help if the information here were accurate so people can make their decisions based on fact and not hyperbole.

 

[kristenabelle]

Let me address this point, which implies that Omar Mateen knew Pulse was a gay club (from Huffington Post):
"As far as investigators could tell, Mateen had never been to Pulse before, whether as a patron or to case the nightclub. Even prosecutors acknowledged in their closing statement that Pulse was not his original target; it was the Disney Springs shopping and entertainment complex. They presented evidence demonstrating that Mateen chose Pulse randomly less than an hour before the attack. It is not clear he even knew it was a gay bar. A security guard recalled Mateen asking where all the women were, apparently in earnest, in the minutes before he began his slaughter."

A terrible tragedy? Yes. Designed to kill as many people as possible? Yes. Targeted at LGBTQs? No.

Regarding the idea that teachers can't disclose their partners, that's also untrue.
https://news.yahoo.com/florida-teachers-being-told-cant-153212732.html

It would help if the information here were accurate so people can make their decisions based on fact and not hyperbole.

And another article, sharing how teachers are confused and concerned about how the new law will be enforced, and what's allowed: https://time.com/6208554/florida-lgbtq-teachers-dont-say-gay-education-law/

Quoted:

Daffne Cruz, an assistant principal in Polk County, Florida, says last year her district gave her LGBTQ-inclusive “safe space” stickers to distribute throughout the school. This year, when Cruz, who is queer, asked for more stickers to pass out, she claims her district told her they couldn’t provide them because of “new legislation.”

Further:

Going into the new school year, LGBTQ educators in Florida describe widespread confusion over how much they need to hide their own identities, limit discussion of LGBTQ people or history, or notify parents if a student comes out to them. The new law raises critical questions over what constitutes a healthy learning environment, how to make schools safe for LGBTQ students, and what rights parents have to dictate their child’s experience in the public school system. And LGBTQ advocates warn that LGBTQ students—who already often experience higher rates of stigmatization and isolation—could face worsening mental health concerns. (Florida’s Department of Education did not respond to a request for comment on this story.)

Whereas the Yahoo article references one district's response, the truth is that more conservative districts aren't barred from taking a broader position. Additionally, that district in the Yahoo article is being sued by several orgs regarding this specific law.

And to refine my point - the fact that folks even have to wonder if something's ok ("can i have a picture of my spouse?" "can i get emergency services at the nearest hospital if needed?") is what's concerning:

“The fact that someone has to say to these teachers that you can have a picture of your spouse on your desk, shows the environment they’re having to work in,” says McCracken, who is gay. “While the words might say one is safe to have a picture, or a rainbow button, the environment you’re showing up in to work doesn’t feel safe.”

That's exactly what this thread is for - I don't think it's hyperbole to be concerned over confusing, hastily cobbled together legislation that has a direct impact on your life and wellbeing. Especially for folks on this board considering vacations who now have to consider health plans and travel plans that take these mounting laws into effect.

 

[Apthorp76]

The saddest thing is that this whole situation seems performative in the lead up to an election.

Florida's anti-drag laws were redundant because the state already had laws prohibiting indecent acts in the presence of minors.

If there was a real problem all law enforcement had to do was enforce the existing laws.

 

[bcdisney]

We're in Delaware so WDW is significantly closer to us, but we're both way too afraid to set foot in Florida. My wife brought up the idea of going to Disneyland in California. How accepting are they? I just assume we'd be safer there than in Florida.

I haven’t read all the pages of this thread but right now California seems safer than Florida. Our governor and state legislature are actively trying to support LGBTQ+ folks, while Florida’s leaders obviously aren’t. I’ve only been to Disneyland and have never been to Florida. You folks make such a big deal about Disney World that it makes me want to visit. My wife was always on the fence because of the heat and humidity but now with the added evil political climate it’s a definite NO.

 

[WebmasterKathy]

Good grief. This discussion is done.