We're all out there chasing our better selves (FredtheDuck chases on)

Thank you! I think a big part of the intimidation is just mental now. I have to be able to trust that I can do 6/7/8 miles without it being this monumental task/achievement. I think probably just more experience - my expectations of myself and my limitations will adjust accordingly.

Also, I just got a frost alert for tonight/tomorrow morning, which should make my speed workout interesting. It will be 40* when I head out. While I'm glad for fall weather...

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My biggest fear is this year we'll go from summer to winter with little fall in between.
 
I hear you about how easy it is to throw in the towel for longer than necessary when you have recovered from a cold. It's good you at least attempted something as I find doing just a little if you aren't totally out of commission helps keep you on track.

And brilliant gif use. Why does weather always want to skip the good temps so quickly????
 
Question for @DopeyBadger: since I missed my speed workout last week, should I stick with the 10x400s I have tomorrow? Or cut to the 8x400 I was supposed to do last week? I feel like I'd be ok to do the 10, but you're the coach. And am I racing Sunday, or just treating it as a training run?

10x400 is good! And you are racing on Sunday.
 
10x400 is good! And you are racing on Sunday.

Thanks! 10x400 done. I need a lot more practice at this pace, I ran all of today's intervals faster than called for. I feel fine after, but I suspect what I ran was closer to my "new" 5k fitness, not my current 10k fitness. A quarter of a mile is such a short distance to adjust speed if I start out too fast on a given interval, and I didn't make great adjustments in subsequent intervals based on the results of the previous. So on the one hand, it's fun to see those interval times, but on the other hand, I'm disappointed that I didn't self-regulate a little better. I think the race this weekend will be a good learning experience in terms of how I have to pace myself over the full 10k distance (there's no way I maintain a 9:20 pace for 6 miles), and hopefully that will set me up better for the second half of this plan.
 


Thanks! 10x400 done. I need a lot more practice at this pace, I ran all of today's intervals faster than called for. I feel fine after, but I suspect what I ran was closer to my "new" 5k fitness, not my current 10k fitness. A quarter of a mile is such a short distance to adjust speed if I start out too fast on a given interval, and I didn't make great adjustments in subsequent intervals based on the results of the previous. So on the one hand, it's fun to see those interval times, but on the other hand, I'm disappointed that I didn't self-regulate a little better. I think the race this weekend will be a good learning experience in terms of how I have to pace myself over the full 10k distance (there's no way I maintain a 9:20 pace for 6 miles), and hopefully that will set me up better for the second half of this plan.

All a learning process. It's certainly possible to complete the 10x400 workout you did today at 5k pace, but as you said not quite what the goal was for today. Just keep learning from these and you'll get in a rhythm soon enough. I mean if you really want to test yourself, try running the race blind. Just make sure you feel the effort in the beginning is correct. Who knows what'll happen? Because maybe you can run a 9:20 pace for 6 miles. I seem to know another person who thought that they'd just sneak under their goal pace and somehow absolutely destroyed it. :D
 
Ha. I think I will run it blind, mostly because this training cycle is more for maintenance than goal crushing, so why not (put another way, there's not really anything on the line - I have no solid goal)? Also @roxymama's last half marathon was SIGNIFICANTLY faster than mine, so while I am legitimately inspired by her (and your race) on Sunday, I'm not fooling myself in to thinking/hoping I'm anywhere near that speedy : )

Today's run did make me think about trying for a sub-30 5k in 2018, though. Just thinking about goals for the future.
 
#goals

BTW, are you saying you ran the 400s today at 9:20 pace? As in 2:20 minutes vs 2:40 minutes? And you could keep that up for all of the 10 intervals? And with 30 sec RI?

Because, yea... you're WAY faster than you think. Based on current fitness that would be ~2k pace (9:20) for 400m and 30 sec RI. I GUARANTEE you I could not do that workout and I would be dying. Something tells me if the conditions are right you may be in for some big things in your next couple of races. :thumbsup2
 


@DopeyBadger So... I just wanted to kind of confirm whether sub-30 was realistic based on today's run, so I tossed my intervals in to Excel and did some #math. The first two running intervals were on the street, 3-8 on the track, half on 9 was track and half street (just how my route falls) and 10 was back on the street. Type codes, fairly obviously, are WU/CD, R for the running intervals, and W for the 30-ish second walks... and this is all from the AppleWatch Activity app, which was I was using to split the intervals:

upload_2017-10-17_9-25-37.png

Um. What?
 
@DopeyBadger So... I just wanted to kind of confirm whether sub-30 was realistic based on today's run, so I tossed my intervals in to Excel and did some #math. The first two running intervals were on the street, 3-8 on the track, half on 9 was track and half street (just how my route falls) and 10 was back on the street. Type codes, fairly obviously, are WU/CD, R for the running intervals, and W for the 30-ish second walks... and this is all from the AppleWatch Activity app, which was I was using to split the intervals:

View attachment 277560

Um. What?

That's really hard for me to extrapolate out of the workout without being there with you and knowing what kind of effort was put in. But like I said, you're definitely not a 31:40 5k and 1:06 10k if you can do that workout you just did. Much much faster. Exactly what, hard to say. I'd say just be jacked up because big things are coming on the horizon with ideal racing conditions.
 
All a learning process. It's certainly possible to complete the 10x400 workout you did today at 5k pace, but as you said not quite what the goal was for today. Just keep learning from these and you'll get in a rhythm soon enough. I mean if you really want to test yourself, try running the race blind. Just make sure you feel the effort in the beginning is correct. Who knows what'll happen? Because maybe you can run a 9:20 pace for 6 miles. I seem to know another person who thought that they'd just sneak under their goal pace and somehow absolutely destroyed it. :D

Haha, when I was reading your breakdown of your X400 workout @FredtheDuck I was having extreme Deja Vu!! It's totally what happened with my 8x400 a couple weeks ago. I had a hard time keeping myself from going too fast because they were short bursts that I knew would be over soon.
My biggest piece of advise if you run the race blind without a badger in front of you...maybe just pretend like he's there! And if you start doubting if you are going too fast or too slow...just keep moving and pressing so your imaginary pacer doesn't get away from you. No time to think, or he'll run too far ahead...just keep chasing :)
Also at the finish you can pretend like I'm coming up behind you trying to beat you.

Also, make sure you press start while the watch is on run mode before you cover it with a sticker/sleeve. (doh)
 
I had a hard time keeping myself from going too fast because they were short bursts that I knew would be over soon.

Well, I think that's just it... and why I don't want to get my hopes up for a big PR in either of the 10ks I have coming up... These are shorter distances and I know they'll be over quickly... Do I have the endurance or fitness to keep them up over a longer, consecutive distance? Mmmmm... doubtful(/no way).

just keep moving and pressing so your imaginary pacer doesn't get away from you. No time to think, or he'll run too far ahead...just keep chasing :)

I love this mental image. @MoanasPapa is racing on Sunday too, and he's faster than me, so maybe I'll ask him to race at his speed and I'll try to keep up with him, instead of him slowing down for me.

Also at the finish you can pretend like I'm coming up behind you trying to beat you.

"Trying." Psssssh. You have this imaginary race in the bag, speedy lady. But that would make for a fun kick, wouldn't it?
 
I've read a few journals here recently talking about "going for it" and really going for broke in races recently. I know this is going to sound silly... but... how? How do you do that? How do you know what your top-end is and how close you can get to it while still making the finish line? Because whenever I race, I feel like I start at a hard pace but consistently tell myself I need to rein it in, so I step down to hard-ish... and I'm wondering if maybe that hard pace is actually more sustainable than I believe in my head. I think Parks was a good example. I raced it below my HM tempo pace. I was happy just to finish. But did I have more? I don't know. It felt too risky to try.

I like the idea of running MCM10k blind, but I'm wondering if that'll be better or worse than trying to stick with my prescribed paces - maybe I'd race slower if I raced blind because I'd think I was working too hard? But the flipside... maybe my paces are actually slower than I'm capable of if I really do "leave it all out there."

So how do you do it? How do you figure out where your max line is and run just alongside it for a race?
 
You wrote: "Because whenever I race, I feel like I start at a hard pace but consistently tell myself I need to rein it in, so I step down to hard-ish... "

So my answer is...don't do that. Don't reign it in only because that's what you think you should be doing. it's been an issue for me in the past. Now if you are in major pain, or your breathing is just really uncontrollable, or if you are getting dizzy, etc...yeah reign it in. But if the only reason you are slowing down is because you think your pace is too fast. Ignore your pace....pay attention to your body pushing hard. Remember what tempo felt like. You can push that. It's gonna get really really hard those last 2 miles. You may be running the same type of pace as the first mile and it will feel so much harder. Just keep pushing. You may think you are physically slowing down a TON...but you may be wrong. It may just be a little bit, it just feels like a lot.

That's my "from very recent memory" very non-specific advise. It also helps that it is 10k because I KNOW you can do a 10k at race speed. I KNOW YOU CAN!!!
 
Also, it may feel super uncomfortable that last mile...but your body will forget it the moment you cross the finish. So just remind yourself of that as it is happening. You can also swear at your inner gremlins...I've heard that works for some of us :)
 
Going for broke pretty much means you run as hard as you can and you don't care about what happens next. You just run. Pairing this with running blind could work well since it wouldn't allow any self-doubt to creep in (can I hold this pace?). You know you maxed the run when you cross the finish line feeling like I couldn't have gone any faster. And then about 10 min later think to yourself, yep I still think I couldn't have gone any faster.

When running, try to stay as relaxed as possible. Think of your face as a bowl of jelly. Relax it some much it just kind of jiggles with the steps (not implying weight things or anything). Just saying try not to tense up your face or body when running super hard. Instead go as loose as you can. Just look at how relaxed Usain is running faster than any other human ever.

Now like @roxymama said, if your body is giving you signs of severe pain, then by all means listen. If you're body is just second guessing or tired, just try to think of something powerful or positive. Imagine something so awesome you can't help but smile.

Try this time blind, and if it doesn't work then try the next one sticking to a certain pace.
 
Also, it may feel super uncomfortable that last mile...but your body will forget it the moment you cross the finish. So just remind yourself of that as it is happening. You can also swear at your inner gremlins...I've heard that works for some of us :)

This.

So, for me, I found in my training that I was getting more and more comfortable at paces that I had previously thought were really pushing it, only to find it wasn't that bad really. Turns out, I was probably overthinking it a lot. When, I found myself able to run 6 miles at a pace I would have thought unsustainable for 13 and not feeling like I was dying, that's when I started thinking, "Hmmm, how far could I really go at this pace?" That lead to thinking, "Hmmm, maybe I could do that for 8 or 9 miles" which led to thinking, "heck, maybe I could actually do it for a full 13". Then I realized the only way to really find that out was to just do it knowing that I might crash and burn at mile 9 or 10 and have to slow way down or walk it in. Then I had to convince myself that it was no big deal if I crashed and burned. So what really? I was only ever going to find out if I could do it if I tried. So, we just decided that we would shoot for an aggressive pace and hold it for as long as I could and turns out, I could hold it a lot longer than I gave myself credit for. And, yeah, there was some swearing there. #f*** tired And, yes, I felt horrible at the end, but like Roxy said, that passed quickly and was replaced with sheer happiness.
 

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