What’s you prediction for return to normal travel?

[dvcgirl67]

And you have to look beyond "death rates" as your measure. People who are surviving COVID-19 are exhibiting signs of permanent lung and heart damage. A young Broadway actor is currently getting part of his leg amputated as a byproduct of treatment.

Yes, I saw that report about the Broadway actor. Just terrible. This virus is truly vicious and we don't fully understand why it reacts a certain way in some individuals and another way in others. I've read about the clotting issues taking place in some critically ill patients. This is why so many of them are not only requiring long term mechanical ventilation, but also dialysis due to acute kidney failure.

There's also a great video piece in the NYT from yesterday where there are a series of physicians treating COVID-19 patients in NYC talking about whether or not we're even treating this virus correctly. They can't wrap their heads around this thing, because we've never seen anything like it. My sister-in-law has told me the exact same things. Patients who are breathing 40 times a minute, with low oxygenation levels, but can still speak in full sentences. Makes...no sense. Some docs are arguing that putting these patients in induced comas on vents is possibly doing irreversible damage to their lungs even if they are lucky enough to survive.

And this is why it's upsetting to me to see protests about "opening everything up again". These medical heroes are just getting their first brief sigh of relief. The hospitals aren't overflowing right now. They're catching their collective breath. And if we just open it all up....like before, in 3 weeks we'll have another huge surge of patients, overwhelmed hospitals and a spike in deaths. I mean, how long can we as nation expect our healthcare workers to continue to work under these conditions?

The longer we put off mass testing for positive cases and antibody testing, the longer this will go on for all of us. Only when we get our arms around how many are truly infected and immune, can life begin to resume to a level of normalcy. And not until there is a vaccine can life go on like it was before.

Someone had a good point in this thread regarding the Abbott Lab rapid test and travel. Yes, maybe we'll get to the point where we'll have millions os tests so that people can get on flights with confidence, or even on a DCL cruise that only goes to Castaway Cay. But right now, even if a ship was to head out, what country is going to allow a ship full of untested Americans onto their shores? In Italy they're talking about "Immunity Licenses"....for people with proven immunity, free movement around the country will be permitted. When is any country in Europe, who is still going through hell, just 2-3 weeks ahead of us, going to allow Americans to fly into their country without quarantining for 14 days? Not soon, I can assure you.

 

[Garyjames220]

I am from UK and I couldn't believe the pictures I seen of packed beaches in Florida

Big big mistake. A few weeks from now America is going to have a massive surge and this is going to kill thousands of people it Could have avoided

I really hope I'm wrong

 

[teruterubouzu]

We all need to work to manage our expectations. Do people really think we are going to go from staying at home to visiting a theme park or getting on a cruise in the near future? Necessary surgeries are being delayed, most stores are closed, the ones that opened have limits on number of shoppers, schools are closed. All of these things will be slowly opening up a long time before we are hopping on an airplane and going on vacation. It is sad and scary, but leisure travel is going to be lower on the list of priorities.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I am from UK and I couldn't believe the pictures I seen of packed beaches in Florida

Big big mistake. A few weeks from now America is going to have a massive surge and this is going to kill thousands of people it Could have avoided

I really hope I'm wrong

Nope, you're 100% correct. Here in the States, we seem determined to make this entire experience as awful as possible. I've been thinking of Great Britain lately. Specifically, The Blitzkrieg bombing of London in WW II. Where your people endured months of bombing by The Luftwaffe for months on end, and lost 400,000 civilians in the end.

Fast forward 80 years, and our society is being asked to stay home and watch Netflix, to save thousands of our own people. And one month in, we've already got protesters out in large groups, no face masks on, carrying AR-15s (seriously....are they going to try and shoot the virus?), shouting about their "civil liberties" being "taken away" from them. I mean, suffice it to say.....that crew would not qualify as our next "Greatest Generation". Not by a long shot.

Stay safe over there in the UK!

 

[wombat_5606]

I know that is the thing everyone wants to say now, but it doesn't hold water. We have never withheld medical care when people do illegal drugs, take part in risky sports, drive too fast, etc... so I am not sure why this is something where we will suddenly withhold medical treatment?? I think too many people were listening to The View this week...

Those things you compare to the virus, aren't contagious.

 

[wombat_5606]

Then we can also argue smokers and the obese should get to the back of the line too. As many illnesses they have are lifestyle choices.

Those things aren't contagious.

 

[Garyjames220]

Nope, you're 100% correct. Here in the States, we seem determined to make this entire experience as awful as possible. I've been thinking of Great Britain lately. Specifically, The Blitzkrieg bombing of London in WW II. Where your people endured months of bombing by The Luftwaffe for months on end, and lost 400,000 civilians in the end.

Fast forward 80 years, and our society is being asked to stay home and watch Netflix, to save thousands of our own people. And one month in, we've already got protesters out in large groups, no face masks on, carrying AR-15s (seriously....are they going to try and shoot the virus?), shouting about their "civil liberties" being "taken away" from them. I mean, suffice it to say.....that crew would not qualify as our next "Greatest Generation". Not by a long shot.

Stay safe over there in the UK!

I was really shocked at the beaches. Just crazy. People may think it's great we can go to the beach now but it's just going to make the whole process longer and kill more people

Our news has also been showing Americans shouting at ending this lock down now and opening everything back up. One person it showed them moaning they couldn't get a haircut. I mean really

These people won't be shouting when there struggling to breathe

I get that people must be really struggling for money but the figures from deaths in USA right now is awful.

I just feel the way round this is a slow process and trying to rush it will not work

I hope all you Americans out there staff safe but from watching here in the uk I don't think flooding beaches etc is the answer and it's going to back fire bigtime

I can't wait to go on a cruise and to WDW but having thousands of people together is just not going to work. The measures there thinking of doing to is not going to have the same magic to it. I don't see a way around cruises parks etc until a vaccine tbh.

We are in lock down for another three weeks and with the amount of deaths here I am glad we are locked down

Stay safe

 

[BlueRibbon]

LOL! You're comparing the cruise industry with NYC subway system? First of all, have you seen any footage of the NYC metro lately? It's not exactly packed. It is carrying essential workers to....work.

Um. Yeah. This is from two weeks ago: https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-borough...-ridership-has-bottomed-yet-trains-are-packed

My point was that New York has the highest infection rate(known to date), and what cannot be ignored is the fact that while people are being arrested for paddleboarding by themselves, crowding together in a subway is perfectly fine. New York is unique in this regard as other locations in the country can travel to work in cars, which provide distancing. Rational people might think that cramming all the essential workers together might be a reason why New York has been affected more by the Wuhan Virus.

Sure, you can have the argument that since this is for essential workers, what else can you do? But it does not make sense to me to have all those folks at increased risk just on their way to work.

This goes to the larger argument that we're discussing here: When can cruise ships get back to normal? I think people are still in a state of panic and by definition, not thinking straight. Time will help, as well as the knowledge that comes out each day. Florida's actions are promising, and we'll have to see what the repercussions are. If there are none, or are minimal, then we can move one step closer to opening things up.

 

[wombat_5606]

One of the reasons we see low occupancy rates at the hospitals is because all over the world, there is at present, some form of lockdown. If the country and the world goes on about their business, we are going to see an enormous increase. I can't imagine there is a single person on these boards that doesn't want to get the economy rolling but until we have some things in place to protect ALL citizens, it's just not possible.

An excerpt from a speech:

According to Emily Landon, the chief infectious disease epidemiologist at University of Chicago Medicine, "The healthy and optimistic among us will doom the vulnerable." She acknowledged that restrictions like a shelter-in-place may end up feeling “extreme” and “anticlimactic” — and that’s the point.
“It’s really hard to feel like you’re saving the world when you’re watching Netflix from your couch. But if we do this right, nothing happens,” Landon said. “A successful shelter-in-place means you’re going to feel like it was all for nothing, and you’d be right: Because nothing means that nothing happened to your family. And that’s what we’re going for here.”

 

[aggiedog]

I think the real problem with those that feel that the current isolation is an infringement of their civil rights is that they don't/won't have to take responsibility for hurting anyone if they do transmit the disease, since they won't know they did.

If this were an Ebola outbreak, if you were exposed, you'd know the person who exposed you and you'd know if you had the disease very quickly. It is a fast, ugly disease that does not sit "silent" for days or weeks in a body. If you decided you wanted to walk around exposing people (if you even could - most are so sick they can barely move) everyone else would know what you were doing. With coronavirus, you can easily infect others (the average is 2.5, but there's been documented cases of over 100 people infected from just one carrier) and that infection could very well kill someone or give them permanent health issues.

I'm sorry, but your personal right to golf and get a hair cut don't outweigh the public's expectations to be kept safe.

As for the economy, it does suck. I haven't been paid in a month and I'm the sole breadwinner. We have savings, and fortunately the government bailout programs will probably keep my company afloat, but it will be a lean year or two most likely. The government needs to step up and help more because public health is what they are supposed to do. Taxes will go up for those with the money to pay. It is what it is. This pandemic will change things in this country. Thinking things will go back to pre-Covid normal isn't realistic.

Same with travel. I do think that cruises will try to open up before vaccines, etc, and it will be cruise at your own risk. I can't see how that will lead to a robust industry early on, and I do think some cruise lines will go under first.

 

[aggiedog]

And how else do you propose that healthcare, sanitation, law enforcement, etc, workers get to work in NYC? It is a dense urban setting that is not set up for single rider transit. I'm betting many, many workers can not afford to live in the city and must commute. It is in no way ideal, but the alternative is what? Walking? Cycling? Never going home and sleeping somewhere close to work? Sometimes you have to pick the least worst choice.

 

[teruterubouzu]

the Wuhan Virus.

It is hard to take any of your comments in good faith when you are referring to this with the politically charged name of Wuhan Virus. The only reason people use this name is to deflect blame from the failings of our own government. Regardless of where this started it is our problem to deal with now.

One of the reasons we see low occupancy rates at the hospitals is because all over the world, there is at present, some form of lockdown. If the country and the world goes on about their business, we are going to see an enormous increase. I can't imagine there is a single person on these boards that doesn't want to get the economy rolling but until we have some things in place to protect ALL citizens, it's just not possible.

An excerpt from a speech:

According to Emily Landon, the chief infectious disease epidemiologist at University of Chicago Medicine, "The healthy and optimistic among us will doom the vulnerable." She acknowledged that restrictions like a shelter-in-place may end up feeling “extreme” and “anticlimactic” — and that’s the point.
“It’s really hard to feel like you’re saving the world when you’re watching Netflix from your couch. But if we do this right, nothing happens,” Landon said. “A successful shelter-in-place means you’re going to feel like it was all for nothing, and you’d be right: Because nothing means that nothing happened to your family. And that’s what we’re going for here.”

Yes, they also have low occupancy because all elective procedures have been rescheduled or canceled so that the PPE can be used for the pandemic. We need to ramp up PPE production so that people can start to get the other necessary procedures they need.

All of those sorts of things are going to need to be worked out before we are at a place where people are just blithely going on vacation like we used to.

 

[mousefan73]

Those things aren't contagious.

I was referring to a comment about not treating people for items that they are at fault; fault implying doing activities such as traveling when the virus is there.. and yes those items are "contagious" many have died from second hand smoke and children with Diabetes catching overweightness from parents.

 

[aggiedog]

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...ace-ferocious-rampage-through-body-brain-toes
I'm a doctor. Let me assure you that Covid is NOT the flu. We don't understand how it makes you sick, and consequently, how to keep you alive. Much of it is still trial and error. We don't know who has it. We don't know if getting it will even confer immunity of any duration.

I'm also a surgeon. Correct - we had to postpone all non-emergent surgeries to preserve PPE supplies and to prevent spread. Nothing like a hospital to give you germs. As the curve has been flattened, we will be allowed to resume surgeries next week providing the hospital or ASC has enough PPE.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Rational people might think that cramming all the essential workers together might be a reason why New York has been affected more by the Wuhan Virus.

I think the way that you finished this sentence really says it all. The name of the virus is COVID-19.

But yes, back on topic. I can absolutely guarantee you that Bog Iger is not happy with how Florida is managing the pandemic. The actions of the leaders of Florida will keep the DCL ships in port for a lot longer than they need to be.

The irony is that people in China will be out cruising long before we will be here in the states.

The logistics that need to line up to get cruise ships steaming again are mind boggling. The cruise industry is only profitable when those ships are full. Like the airlines, it only works with a high occupancy model. 1/2 or 3/4 full ships don't cut it. It's cheaper to keep them docked until we're much further along and closer to having that vaccine.

 

[dvcgirl67]

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...ace-ferocious-rampage-through-body-brain-toes
I'm a doctor. Let me assure you that Covid is NOT the flu. We don't understand how it makes you sick, and consequently, how to keep you alive. Much of it is still trial and error. We don't know who has it. We don't know if getting it will even confer immunity of any duration.

I'm also a surgeon. Correct - we had to postpone all non-emergent surgeries to preserve PPE supplies and to prevent spread. Nothing like a hospital to give you germs. As the curve has been flattened, we will be allowed to resume surgeries next week providing the hospital or ASC has enough PPE.

Thank you Doctor, for being a voice of reason and explaining how little we truly understand about this virus. And also for bringing up immunity. The study out of South Korea was concerning. I think it was 1/3 of previous positive COVID-19 patients did not have detectable immunity.

And thank you also for reminding us all that as those non-emergency surgeries can't resume unless we keep flattening the curve. I truly hope you're able to get back to work soon! Stay safe!

 

[Karin1984]

I was really shocked at the beaches. Just crazy. People may think it's great we can go to the beach now but it's just going to make the whole process longer and kill more people

Our news has also been showing Americans shouting at ending this lock down now and opening everything back up. One person it showed them moaning they couldn't get a haircut. I mean really

These people won't be shouting when there struggling to breathe

I get that people must be really struggling for money but the figures from deaths in USA right now is awful.

I just feel the way round this is a slow process and trying to rush it will not work

I hope all you Americans out there staff safe but from watching here in the uk I don't think flooding beaches etc is the answer and it's going to back fire bigtime

I can't wait to go on a cruise and to WDW but having thousands of people together is just not going to work. The measures there thinking of doing to is not going to have the same magic to it. I don't see a way around cruises parks etc until a vaccine tbh.

We are in lock down for another three weeks and with the amount of deaths here I am glad we are locked down

Stay safe

Let's make that Europe, not just the UK. The images coming out of the US are beyond scary. At least China had been through two months of strict lockdown before they reopened the parks and got flooded immediately. Yes, I know it's Florida and that Florida has a bad reputation when it comes to doing stupid stuff, but to have a whole beach of 'Florida man'. You think they would have learned after the Spring Break pictures.

With this, it's going to take a long time before US citizens will be allowed in other countries as we cannot make exceptions to accept certain states, but ban others.

 

[CamColt]

This thread is no longer on topic of Disney Cruise Line therefore I will close it. If you would like to continue discussing this virus, and can do so in a civil manner without bringing politics into it, you can do so on the Community Board.