What would you do?

[carrie6466]

Another school issue. DD6, who has autism, also has a lot of trouble with writing as well as other fine motor issues. She is in an inclusion class with a 1:1. She is in OT twice a week for fine motor skills, everyone knows she has trouble writing, this is no secret. She gets a spelling test every Friday. She has gotten one word wrong on one test since these tests started 7 weeks ago. It devestated her that she didn't get 100, but that is something for a different day.

Here is my problem: Over the course of the past two weeks, her teacher has started marking as wrong every word in which she writes a letter backwards. So now her grades have been things like 89, 80, etc. She's flipping out over this, especially since the words aren't spelled wrong. One example would be last week's test. The word was Sunday. She spelled it correctly and even had the first letter capitalized. She wrote the capital S backwards, as she frequently does and the teacher marked it wrong.

Should/can I do anything about this? It is supposed to be a spelling test, not a handwriting test. Or...should I let this one go?

 

[bookwormde]

You are correct this is not a writing test, if you want you can talk to the teacher about it but in the end you will probably have to write into the IEP a bunch of test taking accommodations. Some the most common are EF assistance, extra time and some scribing by the 1 on 1. A form dyslexia occurs in a high percentage of ASD children since standard linear process in not innate and discrimination (including left right preference) is not innate. It is funny that many of our children can read a book that is upside down almost as well as when it right side up with minimal practice. Certainly no 1st grader should be marked down for letter reversals, and in a contained classroom it shows a real lack of knowledge and experience by the teacher. One thing that really helped my son was the teacher printed the words in a form so they could be cut out and manipulated and he would sort them by phonetics while getting the visual picture of each word while he was working with them. He went from 70-80s to almost always 100s through this technique.

bookwormde

 

[KirstenB]

Sheesh, my non-ASD older dd reversed many letters all the time in 1st grade. I was a little concerned about it, because my dh is pretty dyslexic. My friend, who's an elementary school teacher said that it's considered not a problem til 2nd grade. She would have never marked a first grader down for this. I'd probably pursue it if it were me.

 

[carrie6466]

We just finished a neuropsych eval a few weeks ago, in which the dr. told us she has severe EF issues. We are still waiting the written report to arrive before our CSE meeting on 11/19. That's part of why I'm upset that this is all happening now.

We are having the meeting before the first quarter teacher conference, because the 1:1 was only for the first 45 days of school, subject to review at the end of 45 school days per the IEP. Which are finished. That is why the meeting is when it is. The teacher conference is basically a report card review, hence not until the end of the 1st quarter, in this case Nov 30 or Dec 3 are the two dates. We have 11/30 because we're going to WDW on 12/3.

I did call the neuropsych to make sure we will have hard copies of all the reports. He has assured me they were all mailed out last Thursday, to us and the school, but no one has received them yet.

 

[Schmeck]

I would hope the teacher would correct the error - you've got to learn to make the letters correctly - but to mark off for it? I'm not sure if I agree with that, unless it was something they had worked on in class and she was expected to show improvement on it? Is it something listed in the IEP?

You have another issue to work through - the perfectionism problem. Getting upset by not getting 100% can cause a lot of problems later on. You can work on this at home, encouraging her to accept her mistakes, showing her that you make them too, we all do, etc. I really think this is the major issue, not that fact that the teacher is grading her papers differently now.

 

[carrie6466]

I would hope the teacher would correct the error - you've got to learn to make the letters correctly - but to mark off for it? I'm not sure if I agree with that, unless it was something they had worked on in class and she was expected to show improvement on it? Is it something listed in the IEP?

You have another issue to work through - the perfectionism problem. Getting upset by not getting 100% can cause a lot of problems later on. You can work on this at home, encouraging her to accept her mistakes, showing her that you make them too, we all do, etc. I really think this is the major issue, not that fact that the teacher is grading her papers differently now.

It's not on her IEP, because she is only in 1st grade and we haven't come across this issue before. They aren't grading differently, because she didn't have tests last year in the kindergarten class she was in. I would totally expect the teacher to take points off if it were a handwriting test, don't get me wrong here. We do have an IEP meeting coming up next week. I have decided I am going to ask the teacher about it.

I know the perfectionism issue is a problem. We've been working with her on that for a while now, as does her OT and the sp. ed. teacher in her classroom.

 

[bookwormde]

Perfectionism is one of those two edge swords with our children and ASD individuals in general. It s a very positive trait in that it is part of the gift that makes us so creative through a level of intensity that not typical.

There are 2 issues with it. First is that if the child is not “accepted” for who they are they will try to use perfectionism to control their environment and this can be extremely damaging. Second is to understand that perfectionism is goal that is only arrived at through leaning and that mistakes (and experimentation) which are (is) a big part of pushing your limits to make this possible.

bookwormde

 

[Schmeck]

OK, so I'm not understanding what the problem is - you don't think your child should be marked down on a paper in school for making letters backwards? Are all the other students getting it marked wrong as well? What's wrong with getting an 80 or 89?

You want to be careful about this - how do you want this in her IEP? Do you want to have her progress monitored, as in, they will expect a certain success rate to meet a certain goal (that will mean they could nitpick even more about backwards letters, as they need data to show improvement) or do you want an accommodation placed in her IEP that states she is not to be penalized for handwriting? Please be careful if you choose the second option - avoidance is rarely the best way to work with an issue, as the issue can resurface in high school/post high school.

 

[J'aime Paris]

I'm an aide that works mainly in 1st grade this year. And the boy I work with 90% of the time has autism. I can tell you how it works at my school. The teacher talks to the students all the time about letter formation, and that it is a skill that can take time to master. We practice constantly.

On a writing assignment, no points are taken off for reversal errors or spelling mistakes. The teacher is most interested with the story content.

On spelling tests however, points are taken off if the word is not spelled exactly right. Example: If the word the teacher says is "bad", and the child writes dab, bab, or dad should it be marked correct? There is no way to know if the child actually knows how to spell "bad".

It has nothing to do with handwriting. How neat or sloppy the penmanship is has no bearing, as long as it's not completely illegible.
Again, this is how our school does it. Good luck to you on whatever you decide.

 

[carrie6466]

.

One example would be last week's test. The word was Sunday. She spelled it correctly and even had the first letter capitalized. She wrote the capital S backwards, as she frequently does and the teacher marked it wrong.
Should/can I do anything about this? It is supposed to be a spelling test, not a handwriting test. Or...should I let this one go?

OK, so I'm not understanding what the problem is - you don't think your child should be marked down on a paper in school for making letters backwards? Are all the other students getting it marked wrong as well? What's wrong with getting an 80 or 89?

You want to be careful about this - how do you want this in her IEP? Do you want to have her progress monitored, as in, they will expect a certain success rate to meet a certain goal (that will mean they could nitpick even more about backwards letters, as they need data to show improvement) or do you want an accommodation placed in her IEP that states she is not to be penalized for handwriting? Please be careful if you choose the second option - avoidance is rarely the best way to work with an issue, as the issue can resurface in high school/post high school.

I have highlighted the portion of my first post that seems not to have been noticed.

Nothing wrong with an 80 or an 89. I was just asking what anyone else would do in this instance. I do know a bit about handwriting accomodations, as my 20 yr old son had a 'note taker' and was allowed to circle answers in test booklets later copied onto scantron sheets by teachers. He had less trouble writing than she does, btw.

I'm an aide that works mainly in 1st grade this year. And the boy I work with 90% of the time has autism. I can tell you how it works at my school. The teacher talks to the students all the time about letter formation, and that it is a skill that can take time to master. We practice constantly.

On a writing assignment, no points are taken off for reversal errors or spelling mistakes. The teacher is most interested with the story content.

On spelling tests however, points are taken off if the word is not spelled exactly right. Example: If the word the teacher says is "bad", and the child writes dab, bab, or dad should it be marked correct? There is no way to know if the child actually knows how to spell "bad".

It has nothing to do with handwriting. How neat or sloppy the penmanship is has no bearing, as long as it's not completely illegible.
Again, this is how our school does it. Good luck to you on whatever you decide.

Thanks for the insight. I would certainly expect her to get marked wrong if she wrote dab for dad or any of your other examples. The above portion of my original post is the problem I am talking about. It is all about the things that are not somthing else, I don't complain about things that could be mistaken. I am talking about s, c, g, j, p.

The class hasn't gotten any writing assignments yet, as there are still a few who aren't quite reading or writing at the level they should be.

This class is an experiment. It's the first year they've tried an inclusion class in this school. Before this year, the kids were sent to other schools.

The regular teacher taught 5th grade for many years. This is her first year of teaching first graders. She has never taught inclusion or special ed classes. I only know this because I asked at the beginning of the year.

Thanks everyone, for giving me stuff to think about

 

[LMC]

I see two options here for you. You can have it written in the IEP that she gets oral spelling tests or have it written that she will be tested orally (on the same day as the original written test) on any incorrect words that she wrote on the test. I have provisions in my sons IEP about retesting, oral testing, scribes, etc. Completely acceptable for a child who has a disability that affects handwriting. Even the schools OT dismissed him from OT because she said he had made his maximum improvement, she could not do anything more for him, and he needs to transition to a laptop. So I told them to never approach us to "redo" an assignment (this happened several times last year) because the teacher couldn't read it. He has an identified disability, it is documented, they are aware that his neuropsych said transition to a laptop, their own OT gave the same recommendation and they don't do it. School systems make me angry!!!

I'm an aide that works mainly in 1st grade this year. And the boy I work with 90% of the time has autism. I can tell you how it works at my school. The teacher talks to the students all the time about letter formation, and that it is a skill that can take time to master. We practice constantly.

On a writing assignment, no points are taken off for reversal errors or spelling mistakes. The teacher is most interested with the story content.

On spelling tests however, points are taken off if the word is not spelled exactly right. Example: If the word the teacher says is "bad", and the child writes dab, bab, or dad should it be marked correct? There is no way to know if the child actually knows how to spell "bad".

It has nothing to do with handwriting. How neat or sloppy the penmanship is has no bearing, as long as it's not completely illegible.
Again, this is how our school does it. Good luck to you on whatever you decide.

 

[carrie6466]

I see two options here for you. You can have it written in the IEP that she gets oral spelling tests or have it written that she will be tested orally (on the same day as the original written test) on any incorrect words that she wrote on the test. I have provisions in my sons IEP about retesting, oral testing, scribes, etc. Completely acceptable for a child who has a disability that affects handwriting. Even the schools OT dismissed him from OT because she said he had made his maximum improvement, she could not do anything more for him, and he needs to transition to a laptop. So I told them to never approach us to "redo" an assignment (this happened several times last year) because the teacher couldn't read it. He has an identified disability, it is documented, they are aware that his neuropsych said transition to a laptop, their own OT gave the same recommendation and they don't do it. School systems make me angry!!!

The neuropsych we had do the evaluation did say the eventual transition to a laptop or some other kind of device will, in all probability, be in the future. He, too, put that in the report. For now though, he wants her to learn as much of the writing fundamentals as she can. He said it will be very "laborious" for her to learn it. Again, this report was sent to the school district, as they paid for the neuropsych eval, so they know all of this already. I do like the idea of the oral testing. Or my other thought was perhaps she could do the test in a quiet area, before the other kids, and spell the words out to her 1:1 who could then write them down. She is the one who writes all the assignments in the homework book and helps her with any notes, etc. The are thinking it's possible that she is dyslexic, because we do have other family members that are, but told me she is too young to test yet.

 

[Schmeck]

The neuropsych we had do the evaluation did say the eventual transition to a laptop or some other kind of device will, in all probability, be in the future. He, too, put that in the report. For now though, he wants her to learn as much of the writing fundamentals as she can. He said it will be very "laborious" for her to learn it. Again, this report was sent to the school district, as they paid for the neuropsych eval, so they know all of this already. I do like the idea of the oral testing. Or my other thought was perhaps she could do the test in a quiet area, before the other kids, and spell the words out to her 1:1 who could then write them down. She is the one who writes all the assignments in the homework book and helps her with any notes, etc. The are thinking it's possible that she is dyslexic, because we do have other family members that are, but told me she is too young to test yet.

If you decide to go this route - having a scribe put into her IEP - please realize that this can backfire for your daughter by the time she gets to high school. I deal with this every day at the high school I work at. Kids are in the mainstream classes and do not have the handwriting skills to fill out forms, etc. Everything in the world is not available on a laptop, laptops die, get dropped and broken, take time to start, etc. It is an avoidance technique, and while it can be a good tool if used sparingly, I would hope the school would continue to have students do some actual manual handwriting to at least maintain the current skill level.

 

[carrie6466]

If you decide to go this route - having a scribe put into her IEP - please realize that this can backfire for your daughter by the time she gets to high school. I deal with this every day at the high school I work at. Kids are in the mainstream classes and do not have the handwriting skills to fill out forms, etc. Everything in the world is not available on a laptop, laptops die, get dropped and broken, take time to start, etc. It is an avoidance technique, and while it can be a good tool if used sparingly, I would hope the school would continue to have students do some actual manual handwriting to at least maintain the current skill level.

I understand what you are saying and agree she needs to have her basic writing skills down before anything like this would happen. My son had the same thing in HS. He does not have autism, he has severe ADHD. He was in the gifted and talented program in school. He was in all honors and AP classes, but had a 504 plan.

Back then, he didn't qualify for OT. The school district(same one) told me that their job was to have him pass. As he was in all advanced classes they had clearly done their job. The only way he would have gotten OT was for me to pull him out of the g & t program. I made a choice to keep him challenged.

He didn't have the handwriting skills to fill in the scantron for the tests and at 20 years old only prints to this day. His signature is so bad you'd think he was a doctor (I wish!) This was despite having had NO accomodations of any kind until he was in HS. It didn't matter either way in his case.

 

[LMC]

There are plenty of opportunities for a child to continue with handwriting skills. I see this as they are penalizing her for a disability. My son (9th grade) still attempts to take all class notes, however, it is completely illegible and is useless when it comes to study time. He gets peer copies or teacher copies to use for study purposes. By age 14 though, I think we have a good idea that there is not much more improvement to be made for him in the area of handwriting. He does not know cursive seeing as it took him until age 9 to learn print, I never taught him cursive other than how to sign his own name. There is nothing wrong with you trying to have the proper accomodations in place for your child.

 

[carrie6466]

There are plenty of opportunities for a child to continue with handwriting skills. I see this as they are penalizing her for a disability. My son (9th grade) still attempts to take all class notes, however, it is completely illegible and is useless when it comes to study time. He gets peer copies or teacher copies to use for study purposes. By age 14 though, I think we have a good idea that there is not much more improvement to be made for him in the area of handwriting. He does not know cursive seeing as it took him until age 9 to learn print, I never taught him cursive other than how to sign his own name. There is nothing wrong with you trying to have the proper accomodations in place for your child.

That's exactly how my son was, except that he did learn cursive. Never properly and uses it for nothing other than to sign his name. I see her heading down that same road, is all. There will be another spelling test today, so we'll see what happens. Thanks for the support.

 

[semo233]

"Certainly no 1st grader should be marked down for letter reversals, and in a contained classroom it shows a real lack of knowledge and experience by the teacher"


EXTREMELY common at your DD's age regardless of ability and should be pointed out, but never wrong. It is a developmental issue that every kid deals with at some time.

 

[dis-happy]

"Certainly no 1st grader should be marked down for letter reversals, and in a contained classroom it shows a real lack of knowledge and experience by the teacher"


EXTREMELY common at your DD's age regardless of ability and should be pointed out, but never wrong. It is a developmental issue that every kid deals with at some time.

ITA. And good grief, it's situations like the OP's that make me triple glad I homeschool. It seems to me the problem could be solved by taping a letter strip on the child's desk for reference.

My ds 9 has finally moved beyond the letter reversals just this year.

 

[gandycat]

My son's IEP allows for accomodations for writing. They do encourage him to do his best but they also never make him feel bad for sloppy writing. Maybe if the teacher understood how much motor planning goes into writing, they would understand that it's not purposeful on your DD's part. We've been so lucky in our district, it's never been an issue. His teacher this year told me she'd rather have 4 pages of sloppy than a half page of neat anyday and that she never wants to inhibit his creativity. He can also turn things in typed when he feels like he needs it. Good luck!

 

[Marina Del Rey]

ITA. And good grief, it's situations like the OP's that make me triple glad I homeschool. It seems to me the problem could be solved by taping a letter strip on the child's desk for reference.

Ditto, and ditto.

As for handwriting, I have handwriting that looks like chicken scratches, but lots of adults do!

By the way... In my youth, I would curl and flourish every letter to excess, so that both slowed me down and made my handwriting all the more illegible. In my mind, if I didn't add all the flourishes, something bad would happen.