AKV Concerns........

[momba#9]

We are close to making a decision about adding on at AKV and we just have some concerns. Consider this like a thinking out loud exercise.

Annual dues: Already pretty high fron the initial numbers I've seen. Common sense indicates that when the main sectrion opens in 2009 that dues will increase at a higher rate than the typical 3% or so.

Feature pool: appears the feature pool is in what would be considered the front of the building near parking lots. Seems like a total loss of atmosphere. I realize with the Savanah it was probably necessary but I'm still concerned.

Poolside food: After a BWV stay I realized how important that having food poolside is when you have three kids. I don't see any pool bar or food poolside listed on the maps. The main restaurant appears to be a long walk away. This could be a deal breaker, anyone know for sure?

Future resale value: With other DVC Resorts location seems to dictate resale values; closer to the parks the higher the values. Buying in only for value is foolish but I still have to consider what the values will be when I sell 15 years or so from now. I don't see SSR owners ever getting what they paid back after the 10% commission. I would like to think AKV will have a little something special besides the extra years to keep values up.

Thanks for letting me think out loud. Any comments or holes you can poke in my thoughts will be welcomed.


Thanks,

Mike

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I'm not sure why common sense will dictate higher dues when Kidani opens.
Yes, there will be more stuff to pay for, but... there will be a whole bunch of more points sold at the resort to pay for it.
Of course, none of them seem expensive since I own points at Vero Beach.

I will bet dollars to doughnuts DVC/Disney will not let the theme and atmosphere be compromised at the pool area. They are masters of disguise, and I'm sure they find a way to build where you don't constantly see cars flying by.

I would think resale value in 15 years will be a strong point for AKV, as opposed to the 2042 resorts.
The extra something special... Well, I like the theme better than BWV or BCV and I would be willing to pay more for it. Does that count??

MG

 

[tjkraz]

Future resale value: With other DVC Resorts location seems to dictate resale values; closer to the parks the higher the values. Buying in only for value is foolish but I still have to consider what the values will be when I sell 15 years or so from now. I don't see SSR owners ever getting what they paid back after the 10% commission. I would like to think AKV will have a little something special besides the extra years to keep values up.

I'll comment on this in terms of both SSR and AKV.

The main thing to note about both resorts is that right now they are being actively marketed by DVC. In other words, the resale market has TREMENDOUS competition.

Resale values for older resorts are determined by a myriad of factors including supply and demand. Right now the supply for SSR and AKV is through the roof. Regardless of demand, resale prices are going to settle around DVC's ROFR threshold. You just aren't going to see people offering $89 per point for SSR when you can pay $2 more per point for a much simpler transaction direct thru DVC. The same will hold true for AKV when points start hitting the resale market.

For the sold-out resorts, supply is much lower meaning that the market has a greater say in pricing.

I bought into SSR at $79 per point and resale is currently in the mid-$80s. After commission I could probably break even on my investment and have 4 years' worth of bargain-basement trips to show for it.

Resale prices for both SSR and AKV will continue to climb just like the others. It just isn't going to happen overnight (SSR started selling less than 4years ago.) If nothing else, DVC's ROFR threshold will ensure that resale prices stay within about $10 of their "new" sales prices.

If DVC is trying to sell 50-year Contemporary or DL contracts for $120 per point, they simply won't let people get 43-45 years at SSR for $90. To do so would be undercutting their own market by eliminating bargain hunters as customers.

 

[Mtnman44]

Maintanence fees at AKV will stay "in the ball park" with other WDW DVC locations. If they didn't Disney would give themselves the headache of not having enough owners as everyone would sell and own at the other cheaper properties.

That being said, what are the hard numbers for your situation? How many points will you buy. If AKV was actually .50 to $1.00 more per point in dues than other DVCs (unlikely) for the rest of your ownership, is that amount enough to sway your decision? Even if there was such a huge premium in dues for AKV, for most owners this would represent around $150 to $250 extra dollars in expense per year.

 

[drusba]

Before purchasing, I asked whether there would be food and drink place by the new pool and was told yes; also official site states the pool will have the "Maji Pool Bar." Pool will not be near any parking lot even though it is in front part of building (any parking for Kidani will be under the buildings and was told that would be limited). No one can predict resale values but late end date, and having at Kidani 1BRs sleeping five, extra bathroom in 1BR/2BR and larger size of rooms, will undoubtedly favor AKV 10 to 15 years from now. Opening dues do not really appear to be out of whack with other resorts.

 

[Mtnman44]

Are you sure you don't want to re-think this? What are you basing this on? You don't think SSR will EVER increase in value, even 10%??????

OKW is the most similar resort to SSR and i think they've done pretty good re: resale value.

I don't see SSR owners ever getting what they paid back after the 10% commission.
Mike

 

[momba#9]

Are you sure you don't want to re-think this? What are you basing this on? You don't think SSR will EVER increase in value, even 10%??????

OKW is the most similar resort to SSR and i think they've done pretty good re: resale value.

Sure, I'll rethink any of the things I posted. Just speculation on my part. I'd love to see ALL of the resorts increase over time. I just feel the new resorts are priced more appropriately and we'll see less increases over time. I feel OKW was under priced when offered thus the run up in resale price over time. No doubt ROFR has propped that up to some degree also.

My personal situation is that I currently have enough points for 6 days in a 2 bedroom during high season at BCV and I'd like to add on enough to cover another 2 bedroom for 5 days (Sun -Fr.) elsewhere. Assuming AKV I would need around 265 to cover SV 2 bedroom during high season. Any points not used I'd bank for longer stay the next year.

Keep the responses coming, all have beeen EXTREMELY helpful and I appreciate that.


Mike

 

[Anthony1971]

As far as dues increasing.. No one can truly predict that AKV may or may not end up higher... Having its own Animals would cause one to expect to pay a little more but if you wnat to stay there year after year it is worth it. Disney could raise them enough to cause some to sell or even a lot but if you sell you need a buyer so someone will be paying the dues most people will not give up thier buy in and just stop paying dues and have Dinsey take the points back as paying the dues would be cheaper than booking cash
SSR not geeting thier money back a good number of us already have being a lot of us paid below the 85 ROFR and no closing costs I am sure June 5 the ROFR will go up now if Disney lifts the ROFR than evryone who bought in any DVC recently and earlier will most likely lose money IF they were to sell. A timeshare is a risk so is buying a house or any other large purchase. Buying DVC is like buying a car it has an expected life and a purpose and like a car you would expect it to lose money if you sell as the next owner will have a shorter life expecatancy the only thing standing in the way is ROFR there are other factors but no other is greater than time as if I bought my contract with 50 years of use and sell it you with 45 for the same price I paid for it I have already paid less than you per point per year and then only paid my Maint. dues for vacation so I would pay 677.32 for my two bedroom OKW room in Septmber for 6 nights including a weekend night using this years dues I could not even stay at AS's for that much less have 6 people in the room or could I

 

[ADP]

We are close to making a decision about adding on at AKV and we just have some concerns. Consider this like a thinking out loud exercise.

Annual dues: Already pretty high fron the initial numbers I've seen. Common sense indicates that when the main sectrion opens in 2009 that dues will increase at a higher rate than the typical 3% or so.

Feature pool: appears the feature pool is in what would be considered the front of the building near parking lots. Seems like a total loss of atmosphere. I realize with the Savanah it was probably necessary but I'm still concerned.

Poolside food: After a BWV stay I realized how important that having food poolside is when you have three kids. I don't see any pool bar or food poolside listed on the maps. The main restaurant appears to be a long walk away. This could be a deal breaker, anyone know for sure?

Future resale value: With other DVC Resorts location seems to dictate resale values; closer to the parks the higher the values. Buying in only for value is foolish but I still have to consider what the values will be when I sell 15 years or so from now. I don't see SSR owners ever getting what they paid back after the 10% commission. I would like to think AKV will have a little something special besides the extra years to keep values up.

Thanks for letting me think out loud. Any comments or holes you can poke in my thoughts will be welcomed.


Thanks,

Mike

I'll take a shot at addressing your concerns:

As others have already stated; with more points being sold dues should rise the normal rate per year about 3% to 4%. That's usually a good estimate.

The feature pool complex is near some of the parking areas (guest parking is under the resort, but these maybe spaces for valet); however, looking at the pool complex schematic from a distance it looks like part of it will be near a savanna as well. My guess is that there will be a viewing area in the pool complex. I would venture to guess that the pool complex near the parking area will be dressed with a lot of trees and other folage. From the artists renderings I've seen of the pool area is looks fabulous.

There is a pool bar in the pool complex. I've seen it in the artist renderings. It's called Maji Pool Bar. I would assume it will serve food since Kidani Village will not have a CS restaurant of anykind. The only other place to get CS food would be at The Mara located at Jambo House. What those food offerings will be is anyone's guess.

As for the future of the resort and resale value; keep this in mind. The Animal Kingdom Park and Animal Kingdom resort area maybe remote now, but in 15 years they maybe right in the middle of a lot of new Disney development. That may or may not include a 5th theme park or 3rd water park. As you've probably seen Disney has worked in the last couple of years extending the Western Beltway (Western Way). It just so happens that road enters/exits Disney property near AK/AKL/AKV. This road is a key to Disney's future development. By the way, AKV is already right next door to one of Disney's theme parks; Animal Kingdom.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[pilferk]

Before purchasing, I asked whether there would be food and drink place by the new pool and was told yes; also official site states the pool will have the "Maji Pool Bar." Pool will not be near any parking lot even though it is in front part of building (any parking for Kidani will be under the buildings and was told that would be limited). No one can predict resale values but late end date, and having at Kidani 1BRs sleeping five, extra bathroom in 1BR/2BR and larger size of rooms, will undoubtedly favor AKV 10 to 15 years from now. Opening dues do not really appear to be out of whack with other resorts.

Beat me to it....I asked the same thing and got the same answer.

I'll leave the "dues increase" discussion to the AKV vs SSR thread.

 

[forcemejure]

I'm going to disagree with your assumption that SSR owners will never be able to recoup their investment.

We bought 150 SSR points 3 months ago for $86/point. At the time, we got 2 DW Annual Pass Exchange Cert that never expire worth about $900 so I figured our cost at about $81/point after $125 closing fees.

It looks like our points today are worth about $84/point on the resale market. If we sold today for $84, we'd "lose" about $1000 after the 10% fees. If I add that to the MF we paid (about $600), our cost for the 10 nights we've used is about $160/night. Booking the same nights direct would have cost us $230/night.

Just 3 months in, we're doing just fine.

 

[Mtnman44]

I'm pretty confident that as long as the cost of lodging in WDW increases so will the value of DVC contracts as their value of 30+ years of vacations will also increase in value. Of course, the number of years remaining will be a huge factor in the total value of any DVC contract. 15 years from now, I'm quite sure that SSR and AKV and any newer DVC locations will be among the higher valued DVC contracts, simply because of the time remaining vs. the 2042 resorts.

Personally, I think either SSR or AKV is an excellent choice to buy in right now. It just depends on what type of resort you prefer.

Sure, I'll rethink any of the things I posted. Just speculation on my part. I'd love to see ALL of the resorts increase over time. I just feel the new resorts are priced more appropriately and we'll see less increases over time. I feel OKW was under priced when offered thus the run up in resale price over time. No doubt ROFR has propped that up to some degree also.

My personal situation is that I currently have enough points for 6 days in a 2 bedroom during high season at BCV and I'd like to add on enough to cover another 2 bedroom for 5 days (Sun -Fr.) elsewhere. Assuming AKV I would need around 265 to cover SV 2 bedroom during high season. Any points not used I'd bank for longer stay the next year.

Keep the responses coming, all have beeen EXTREMELY helpful and I appreciate that.


Mike

 

[gkrykewy]

As you've probably seen Disney has worked in the last couple of years extending the Western Beltway (Western Way). It just so happens that road enters/exits Disney property near AK/AKL/AKV. This road is a key to Disney's future development.

This was one of the reasons I felt AKV was a good buy. We love the resort as-is, but if I understand the locations correctly, it's quite close to the new Western Way Development (LINK), which was characterized by our ME bus driver as a second Downtown Disney.

 

[DVC Grammy]

This was one of the reasons I felt AKV was a good buy. We love the resort as-is, but if I understand the locations correctly, it's quite close to the new Western Way Development (LINK), which was characterized by our ME bus driver as a second Downtown Disney.

ITA
BTW, do you have any idea of what is meant by "small-scale entertainment businesses" in the Western Way Development?

 

[gkrykewy]

ITA
BTW, do you have any idea of what is meant by "small-scale entertainment businesses" in the Western Way Development?

Nope, I don't think anything specific has been announced. If DTD is a model, we might expect a movie theater, theme restaurants, and/or small outdoor entertainment uses (like small amphitheaters for small performances).

 

[BroganMc]

The only issue I have with thinking of AKV as prime location because of possible future development of the Western Way is that the Western Way is located north of AKL and AK. There isn't even a waterway allowing for possible ferry access. And the distance to AK from AKL (entrance to entrance) is 1 mile, through a protected swamp land. That says to me that AKV will always be remote enough to be accessed by car or bus only, not by foot.

On the other hand, SSR has plenty to access by foot. If they build a pedestrian bridge to Typhoon Lagoon, they can give walkable access to that too.

Disney's Western Way expansion just doesn't seem as appealing to me nor in an area that would affect AKV positively (by making it closer to something). The plans are: "The west-side project would have a decidedly different feel. It would include 4,000 to 5,000 hotel rooms in low- and mid-rise buildings, and would include as much as 500,000 square feet of commercial space for restaurants, shopping and small-scale entertainment businesses. The 450-acre project would rise just outside Disney World near the intersection of State Road 429 and Western Way, and would take eight to 10 years to build."

Saying that, it will most likely retain its value by right of ROFR. I just don't see it becoming a big draw like the Epcot, Magic Kingdom or even DTD resorts. If it was, then that wouldn't be the one Deluxe hotel continually with occupancy issues.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Nope, I don't think anything specific has been announced. If DTD is a model, we might expect a movie theater, theme restaurants, and/or small outdoor entertainment uses (like small amphitheaters for small performances).

I'm not sure who the developer of this project is. If it's Disney, than their not building this on their property. I'm pretty sure when I read the article this project was off site.

Am I remembering correctly?

MG

 

[gkrykewy]

Saying that, it will most likely retain its value by right of ROFR. I just don't see it becoming a big draw like the Epcot, Magic Kingdom or even DTD resorts. If it was, then that wouldn't be the one Deluxe hotel continually with occupancy issues.

Really, it has occupancy issues? I wasn't aware of that. It is the one Deluxe where its main amenity, the savannah, basically requires a room rate upgrade from standard. I agree that the Western Way development likely won't be much of a boon, but there is the potential for enhanced access depending on design specifics. I think it's due west of AKV rather than far north, but I could be wrong. Are you suggesting that AKV is being overbuilt?

Personally, my wife and I never seriously considered DVC until we heard about AKV. AKL is a unique draw for us, being huge animal/zoo fans. For us, the resort is nearly a destination unto itself. I think/hope this will help it retain its value, but I don't intend to sell it in any event.

Maistre Gracey, the Western Way development is on Disney property, but not within WDW (however that works).

 

[Tigger031266]

This is definately a glass half empty thread. Look at the plusses:

- Waterpark type of pool
- 50 yrs
- great theming
- Added Restaurants
- Flat Screens
- Resonable points (range from OKW - Premium)
- Conciege possible
- 5 sleeper rooms
- Extra baths in 1 and 2 BR
- oh yah, I forgot the zoo animals right outside my window!!!!

VAK will become the premium resort until the contemporary resort opens (then it maybe a tie).

 

[Maistre Gracey]

This is definately a glass half empty thread. Look at the plusses:

- Waterpark type of pool
- 50 yrs
- great theming
- Added Restaurants
- Flat Screens
- Resonable points (range from OKW - Premium)
- Conciege possible
- 5 sleeper rooms
- Extra baths in 1 and 2 BR
- oh yah, I forgot the zoo animals right outside my window!!!!

VAK will become the premium resort until the contemporary resort opens (then it maybe a tie).

All excellent points... except maybe that CRV thing.

Thye theming is what it's all about for me.
Disney= Transporting me out of my regular day in, day out life... Almost like a hologram from Star Trek.
Few resorts can do that for me, and AKV/AKL is one of them.

MG