AKV Concerns........

[ADP]

The only issue I have with thinking of AKV as prime location because of possible future development of the Western Way is that the Western Way is located north of AKL and AK. There isn't even a waterway allowing for possible ferry access. And the distance to AK from AKL (entrance to entrance) is 1 mile, through a protected swamp land. That says to me that AKV will always be remote enough to be accessed by car or bus only, not by foot.

On the other hand, SSR has plenty to access by foot. If they build a pedestrian bridge to Typhoon Lagoon, they can give walkable access to that too.

Disney's Western Way expansion just doesn't seem as appealing to me nor in an area that would affect AKV positively (by making it closer to something). The plans are: "The west-side project would have a decidedly different feel. It would include 4,000 to 5,000 hotel rooms in low- and mid-rise buildings, and would include as much as 500,000 square feet of commercial space for restaurants, shopping and small-scale entertainment businesses. The 450-acre project would rise just outside Disney World near the intersection of State Road 429 and Western Way, and would take eight to 10 years to build."

Saying that, it will most likely retain its value by right of ROFR. I just don't see it becoming a big draw like the Epcot, Magic Kingdom or even DTD resorts. If it was, then that wouldn't be the one Deluxe hotel continually with occupancy issues.

AKL/AKV will probably never have a walking destination attached to it like a theme park, water park, or shopping district because it would be a distraction and harmful to the animals. If the expectation is to make AKL/AKV like the EPCOT resorts that won't happen either. I would think you will always have to drive or take Disney transportation to get to that mile or two destination next to AKL/AKV. AKL/AKV in its uniquness just can't co-exist right next to certain types of entertainment experiences.

The reason AK and AKL/AKV work well together and can be so close to one another is because the animal theme can co-exist and blend together naturally. Could you imagine a shopping district or an MGM Studios type theme park next to the savannas

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Just curious... Does anyone know the distance as the crow flys from AKL to AK? In other words, pretend there was a fairly straight line walkway to AK. Just how long would that walkway be?

Hey, ya never know..

MG

 

[ADP]

Just curious... Does anyone know the distance as the crow flys from AKL to AK? In other words, pretend there was a fairly straight line walkway to AK. Just how long would that walkway be?

Hey, ya never know..

MG

I don't have a map, but I would venture to guess a driver and a 5 iron shot

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I don't have a map, but I would venture to guess a driver and a 5 iron shot

Okay, who is teeing off? Tiger Woods or Me?
(Must be Tiger. Mine wouldn't be straight).

MG

 

[JimC]

I'm not sure who the developer of this project is. If it's Disney, than their not building this on their property. I'm pretty sure when I read the article this project was off site.

Am I remembering correctly?

MG

From the press release

VALUE-ORIENTED DESTINATION – MIXED-USE TOURISM DISTRICT

On the western edge of the resort, Disney is planning a mixed-use tourist commercial district just outside Disney’s gateway entrance. The master-planned development is comparable in size to Disney’s Animal Kingdom.

The project combines third-party branded lodging, retail and dining in a pedestrian-friendly environment and will be another example of Disney’s commitment to unique placemaking. Located outside Disney’s gateway around the interchange where Western Way meets the Western Beltway, early development plans include 4,000 - 5,000 low- to mid-rise, value-priced lodging units and 300,000 - 500,000 square feet of commercial space. Designed around a retail village, the development will become a convenient shopping and service center for Cast Members, nearby residents and Central Florida visitors.

The project is currently in the design stage. Site work and branding is anticipated to begin later this year. The project will be built in phases over the next 8 - 10 years.

Link to photos

 

[Dean]

We are close to making a decision about adding on at AKV and we just have some concerns. Consider this like a thinking out loud exercise.

Annual dues: Already pretty high fron the initial numbers I've seen. Common sense indicates that when the main sectrion opens in 2009 that dues will increase at a higher rate than the typical 3% or so.

Feature pool: appears the feature pool is in what would be considered the front of the building near parking lots. Seems like a total loss of atmosphere. I realize with the Savanah it was probably necessary but I'm still concerned.

Poolside food: After a BWV stay I realized how important that having food poolside is when you have three kids. I don't see any pool bar or food poolside listed on the maps. The main restaurant appears to be a long walk away. This could be a deal breaker, anyone know for sure?

Future resale value: With other DVC Resorts location seems to dictate resale values; closer to the parks the higher the values. Buying in only for value is foolish but I still have to consider what the values will be when I sell 15 years or so from now. I don't see SSR owners ever getting what they paid back after the 10% commission. I would like to think AKV will have a little something special besides the extra years to keep values up.

Thanks for letting me think out loud. Any comments or holes you can poke in my thoughts will be welcomed.


Thanks,

Mike

The dues are in the ball park now and history suggests they will continue to be. VB is really the only outlier IMO. I don't think you need to worry about AKV from a dues standpoint more than the other resorts. I think the feature pool will be very good likely as good or better than SSR main pool but we shall see. I actually think the location of the pool is a good one given the overall set up of the resort. As for food pool side, I really don't know, but it's hard to imagine no pool bar and grill.

Given the current resorts and retail price I think it's a safe bet that AKV will have a resale value greater than SSR even taking the difference in price into account, but in part it depends on what else comes. If CRV does happen, I think it will be the top value resort assuming a reasonably comparable points structure to what we have now.

 

[BroganMc]

Just curious... Does anyone know the distance as the crow flys from AKL to AK? In other words, pretend there was a fairly straight line walkway to AK. Just how long would that walkway be?

As the crow flies, it is .85 miles (from entrance of AKL to entrance of AK). That includes a couple Cast Member complexes, a swampy wetland and forested area, as well as a corner of the AK parking lot.

 

[BroganMc]

Are you suggesting that AKV is being overbuilt?

Personally, my wife and I never seriously considered DVC until we heard about AKV. AKL is a unique draw for us, being huge animal/zoo fans. For us, the resort is nearly a destination unto itself. I think/hope this will help it retain its value, but I don't intend to sell it in any event.

Overbuilt? Not necessarily but certainly it is being re-envisioned, hence the conversion of the top two AKL floors to DVC. Since this resort is not in as high demand for CRO it makes sense to try and make it appealing to a different, long stay home-away-from-home crowd. And those that fancy a vacation to the savannah the theming will certainly please.

I just question how appealing that will be to the general population over time. I'm betting folks will care more for location than theming in the long run. That's why the Epcot resorts are doing so incredibly well right now and why CRV is expected to sell out quickly.

Anytime I have talked to guests of AKL I heard the same response. It is so far away from everything and you can only eat at Boma's or look at giraffes so often. What we're talking about in future demand is not if owners want to be there, but whether the non-owners do. That's what affects resale and rental values.

 

[gkrykewy]

It is so far away from everything and you can only eat at Boma's or look at giraffes so often.

I guess those are fair points, but one could say the same about any of the resorts which are only accessible by bus (i.e. CB, PO, CS, etc). Personally we didn't notice the average bus wait/ride times to be unusually long for AKL, but I suppose they must be a BIT longer.

If AKL were really struggling, I imagine they would have simply made the Phase I conversion to DVC, or perhaps an expanded conversion of Jambo House, without committing to Kidani Village. An interesting indicator will be its sales pace relative to SSR.

 

[poohmomof5]

Anytime I have talked to guests of AKL I heard the same response. It is so far away from everything and you can only eat at Boma's or look at giraffes so often. What we're talking about in future demand is not if owners want to be there, but whether the non-owners do. That's what affects resale and rental values.

I disagree with this paragraph . We stayed at AKL for 10 days over Thanksgiving 2005. At that time our kids were 13,12,11,8 and 1. We completely fell in love with the place.

We actually stayed at the hotel for 3 of those days because there was sooooooo much to do onsite.

Being honest, we only chose to stay at AKL because of the baby, thinking she would love the animals and the adult that was stuck with her at the hotel while she napped would be able to sit on the balcony and look out over the Savannah! But we all agreed at the end of the trip, including every single one of the kids, that this was by far our favorite WDW resort. Nothing else could possibly compare. We have stayed at the Carribbean Beach, Beach Club (water view), Poly (MK view), Contemporary (MK view, 10th floor), Fort Wilderness Cabins, and Boardwalk (BW view, concierge).

So here are my rebuttals...(please note this is strictly to give my humble opinion, I totally think that everyone has a right to their own opinions and while I disagree with this quote, I have no issue whatsoever with her thoughts and respect her opinions)

"So far away from everything"...while it is further away in distance, the resort has DEDICATED busses. When we stayed at the Beach Club and Boardwalk, unless you are going to EPCOT, you will have a MUCH longer ride to the parks because you need to stop at other resorts and wait for loading or unloading. It is the same at the MK resorts too. That sure wastes alot of time...Yuck!

"You can only eat at Boma's so many times"...this one is an interesting comment, I think you can only eat at O'Hana's, Chef Mickeys etc "so many times", both of the table service eateries at AKL were fabulous, and the Mara is by far the best counter service eatery we have ever eaten at. Lots of fresh fruit, sandwiches, interesting wine choices, bakery, and of course all the typical "fast food" type options, including some unusual ones, like Fish and Chips, wonderful soup bowls, and much more...yummmmm!

"look at Giraffes so often"...this is true, but it sure is nice to drink your coffee on your balcony and watch the animals frolic, graze, and relax on the savannah. It is just so relaxing, much different than any other resort. In addition to the savannah, they have regular activities for the kids daily including arts and crafts, animal education games, (including finding Timon with and actual animal locator...my kids favorite). They have African Drummers nightly and they even give kids their own instruments to play along with. Also, the night vision goggles they have are so much fun to use! They have beads that they give the kids for every activity.

As for your last comment, totally 100 percent true...the law of supply and demand will ultimately decide what the resale value may be worth. It will be fun to see how it all plays out, but honestly, I hope I will never have to sell my points, because we LOVE AKL!

I would venture to guess that alot of people have probably never stayed there, but I think the coolest thing about WDW is that is has something for everyone, and if animals and a safari type adventure is not something that interests you, you probably won't like AKL, no big deal. But I hope everyone reading this gives it a try, because it is truly unique and because of the distance, it was much more relaxing than the other hotels we stayed at.

Good luck with your decision!

Poohmom

 

[bobbiwoz]

I "voted" with my pocketbook, we added on AKV because it's the perfect addition to our DVC portfolio. It's a destination resort that I hope to enjoy and I hope my family enjoys for years to come.

Bobbi

PS. I agree that the Mara offers a good food selection.
PPS. I agree that this is a "glass half empty" thread...thank you,
Tigger031266, for noticing that! As I read through the thread, I became uneasy, and you hit upon the reason.

 

[pilferk]

Overbuilt? Not necessarily but certainly it is being re-envisioned, hence the conversion of the top two AKL floors to DVC. Since this resort is not in as high demand for CRO it makes sense to try and make it appealing to a different, long stay home-away-from-home crowd. And those that fancy a vacation to the savannah the theming will certainly please.

Most of the occupancy issues come from, from what we've seen and heard, the occupancy of the deluxe rooms...which, apparently, there wasn't as much of a market for as they expected there to be. The rest of the hotel seems to do OK.

I just question how appealing that will be to the general population over time. I'm betting folks will care more for location than theming in the long run. That's why the Epcot resorts are doing so incredibly well right now and why CRV is expected to sell out quickly.

Different strokes for different folks, and all that. To some people, location to the parks is a driving factor. Others like access to "nightlife", shopping, golf, etc. Others still like a "destination" resort close to the theme parks, but not right next door (that, FYI, is me!). I think AKV has MANY things going for it that make it very appealing...the mini-water park, the ability to get 5 in a 1BR and 9 in a 2BR, the "extra" bathroom at Kidani, the savannah (the big one), the large number of extra years over all the current resorts EXCEPT SSR, and probably the best hotel to theme park transportation on property (assuming it holds up after AKV opens).

Anytime I have talked to guests of AKL I heard the same response. It is so far away from everything and you can only eat at Boma's or look at giraffes so often. What we're talking about in future demand is not if owners want to be there, but whether the non-owners do. That's what affects resale and rental values.

Odd...that's the concern I hear from people considering a stay. From those that have actually stayed, I don't hear it so much. Most of them say things like "I was worried, but the transportation was SOOOO good...etc, etc". Sure, there are some gripes (see "different strokes" above) but largely I don't see actual guests complaining much....it's the potential guests/perception that seem to "worry".

 

[kend58]

The only issue I have with thinking of AKV as prime location because of possible future development of the Western Way is that the Western Way is located north of AKL and AK. There isn't even a waterway allowing for possible ferry access. And the distance to AK from AKL (entrance to entrance) is 1 mile, through a protected swamp land. That says to me that AKV will always be remote enough to be accessed by car or bus only, not by foot.

I believe it is the remoteness of AKL and AKV that make this a destination resort. I am considering becoming an owner and think of it as the equivalent of HHI or VB a destination resort - It has it's very own Animal viewing Savanas and access within 15 minutes (1 mile) of the DAK theme park and will have when completed excellent on site Pool and dining opportunities.

I get all that and extra years and 15 to 30 minutes by Bus to all the rest of WDW (while VB is 2 hrs by car or town-car and HHI is 5 hrs) I love AKV and am waiting for the first of you folks to let go of those small add-ons you don't want (DVD as your well aware won't sell me less than 160 points and I really only need 85 or so for my every 2 or 3 year vacation plans at WDW)

I think AKV shows Disneys Imagineering off at it's best they are getting back to some of Walts orginal visions (e.g. live animals on the Jungle cruise was his original concept) on a grand scale.
All of the above is as always IMHO and as always YMMV - Just tying to get us back to glass-half-full - Kool-Aid anyone

 

[tjkraz]

The nearby Western Way Development - while off-property the anchor property development the 4 Seasons Hotel will be developed by Disney and Managed by 4 seasons. Disney isn't going to blow this development off they are going to blow the industrys mind with what they deliver in the Western Area over the next 15 years and then once it is all developed (just like those 35 remaining year contracts at BCV have great value now the 35 remaining year contracts at AKV will have great value then) because to be on Disney property and near the Western development upscale new development amenities will be what many people will want and AKV will be the DVC way to get it.

If I'm reading you right, I think you might be mixing up a couple of projects.

While the Western Way project is in the vicinity of AKL, the focus there is on building a shopping center and moderately priced hotels run by other companies. The goal here is to use Disney's land to compete with run-of-the-mill shopping complexes and off-site hotels in the LBV area.

The Four Seasons development is on the other side of the property, where the Eagle Pines golf course currently stands. This site is about a mile up the road from Old Key West and POFQ.

 

[kend58]

My mistake

 

[dianeschlicht]

Okay, here's my take.

First of all, AKV will NOT be a "walk to the parks" destination, and in my book that's a GOOD thing! One of the reasons I dislike BWV is that I feel like I do twice as much walking there as I do at OKW. I hate the time it takes on the boat to MGM and Epcot, so I just walk, and that gets to be more of an issue every year. Even though OKW is spread out, I do very little extra walking there, because of the convenient bus stops. I can't see that AKV will be any different than that. Probably only a couple of bus stops and long hallways, but I can bus to parks instead of walking. I'm assuming AKV will have it's own dedicated buses too, just as OKW and SSR do. I'm guessing they will share with AKL, but that shouldn't be an issue.

I bought AKV points because I love the destination and the savanna. I can see us eventually selling off one OKW contract and converting it to more AKV points just for the added value in regards to resale with the extra 15 years over the OKW contracts.

I'm not at all worried about the maintenance issues. I think the initial maintenance is high because of the need for barns etc, but once the savanna is complete, those costs will be shared with the main AKL, since the savanna in question will serve both buildings. Basically, the "new" savanna is an expansion of an existing one.

I think the main draw at AKV is the savanna and the total immersion into the theme, much like VWL.

 

[tjkraz]

OK I'll jump into the fray with a few general comments since this seems to have degenerated into another AVK vs SSR thread (Ugh!)

Some have mentioned the sleeper chair, extra bathroom and larger rooms as driving resale demand for AKV. I'm not sure I agree with that.

First, I think the sleeper chairs will be added to the other resorts sooner rather than later. DVC is already upgrading all resorts' sofabeds (certainly a costlier move), buying more expensive mattresses, adding DVD players to studios, etc. With the expanded occupancy (5 and 9 guests) being condoned by DVC for several years now, IMO it's inevitable that they will add sleeping accommodations for the additional guest.

As for the other items, the problem I have is that I don't see similar in-room features driving demand for other resorts. I have not witnessed a great number of people stating that their primary reason for buying OKW is the larger rooms. I don't see people deciding to buy SSR because they can book dedicated 2Bs with two queen beds. I don't see people buying BWV because it has studio rooms with daybeds.

I think the main issues that drive a purchase decision--not necessarily in this order--are:

1. Visual appeal. People aren't going to buy at the dark, backwoods resort if they want that airy beach feel (and vice versa.)
2. Resort amenities. Large pool...golf course...spa...savanna...take your pick.
3. Location. Near the parks...near DTD...out in the middle of nowhere (which certainly DOES appeal to many people.)
4. Cost. Everybody looks at the price tag.

Throw all of that into a blender and each person should be able to come up with their best case scenario.

IMO, things like having an extra bathroom are nice, but I don't see them playing a major role in the purchase decision for most people. If I like the look and location of AKV, the extra bathroom may be icing on the cake, but I'm not going to buy there just for the extra bath if I can't stand the dark wood furniture and isolation of the resort.

The lower point rooms at AKV are attractive, but I think there is room to question whether that will have any impact on resale prices. BWV has Standard View rooms yet resale prices there are about the same as VWL (with just one room class.) BCV contracts sell for even more than BWV yet have the same ending date, same location and lack the lower-point rooms.

Some of that pricing is certainly driven by supply and demand, but not all of it. After all the supply at VWL is about half of BCV, yet BCV pricing is higher.

As for resale value between SSR and AKV, all I can do is fall back on supply and demand and guess that AKV will be a little higher since SSR is about 50% larger. I still think that my list above (visual appeal, location, etc.) will play more of a role in resale pricing, but it's far too early to determine which resort will be preferred by the masses.

 

[dianeschlicht]

OK I'll jump into the fray with a few general comments since this seems to have degenerated into another AVK vs SSR thread (Ugh!)

I don't recall doing any comparison to SSR, tjkraz. I do agree with you that the sleeper chairs will be added to the other DVC 1 bedrooms too. I feel that the extra bathroom IS a big plus though. It puts one of the DVC properties on the same plane with many other timeshares where the 1 bedroom units also have a second 3/4 bath.

I think the main issues that drive a purchase decision--not necessarily in this order--are:

1. Visual appeal. People aren't going to buy at the dark, backwoods resort if they want that airy beach feel (and vice versa.)
2. Resort amenities. Large pool...golf course...spa...savanna...take your pick.
3. Location. Near the parks...near DTD...out in the middle of nowhere (which certainly DOES appeal to many people.)
4. Cost. Everybody looks at the price tag.

I concur with these 4, and I think it is these that mainly draw current owners to add-on at a new resort. Number 4 is probably more looked at by new oners than existing ones.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Oh, and I think the BIGGEST issue in the future for resale prices is eventually going to be ending date! In a few years, my OKW contracts will be down below the 25 year mark, but my AKV contract will still have 40 years left.

 

[tjkraz]

I don't recall doing any comparison to SSR, tjkraz.

Sorry, that wasn't directed at anyone specifically. You and I were probably typing at the same time as I just read your reply.