The Psychology of the DLR Annual Pass Holder

[SarahDISer]

We went in 2008 and thanks to all the tips I picked up from the disboards we managed to have a great holiday (vacation). I love travelling to America and I really love Disneyland. The crowds during the day were fine and we were in the park early each morning to make the most of our time there.

However, come evening the parks became quite unbearable with crowds of people streaming in.
I thought I would share my experience as a tourist but please don't think that I am judging or picking sides - just sharing.

We were there for 14 days but we only spent 2 short evenings in the parks as it was so stressful. Having travelled so far we were determined to see the fireworks and fantasmic no matter what but I'm telling you it wasn't fun. When I see the beautiful pictures of Disneyland all lit up at night I wish we had been able to experience more evening time in the park, the crowds just made it too much hassle.

We were planning on going again this year but in the end decided to go somewhere else and that decision was based solely on the crowd levels at night. When you are paying 25 grand for a family holiday and sitting on a plane for 12 hours, you don't want to spend your evenings in your hotel room. I would love to go once or twice a year but it needs to be worth my while. Don't get me wrong though, our days were amazing.

Just one more point if I dare. We noticed a huge difference in the demographic of the people in the park between day and evening. I'm not judging or pointing fingers, I love you guys, it's just that there was alot more pushing, shoving and shouting (lots of loud, obnoxious teenagers).

 

[aussiegirls]

If I am understanding this correctly, from the information I have read on this thread, this is the basic gist of how things have been going. Over the last few years Disney has been increasing the types and numbers of AP's to get bodies in the front gates, obviously with the idea of increasing profits (that is the reason businesses do things). Over the same timeframe profits have been going down and not up. Put 2 and 2 together and you have to come up with 4.

I think it is sad that this has caused people such as SarahDISer (above) to not return.

When you are talking about a business bottom line I think Disney may be going about things completely the wrong way. Hypothetically can I do some figures? Take any ordinary given week, Monday to Sunday. Let's just say that of the total of all people going during that week 50% are AP holders and 50% aren't. The 50% that are not AP holders are likely to be tourists on holidays from overseas or from across the USA. This 50% have come with thousands of dollars to spend in the parks (excluding accom etc) they are quite likely to have brought money to burn.

The 50% of AP holders may be buying a meal, or a few meals. They might even be staying overnight or something. But it's unlikely they will be buying hundreds or possibly thousands of dollars of souveniers (or anything else within the parks) during their stay. At the end of the week of the total money made by Disney the tourists have contributed a disproportionate amount.

Given this scenario the majority of the money is coming from 1 group of people - the tourists. They are not coming JUST to ride the rides. But if this group is having such a bad experience that they will not return again then the profits go down. Each year the percentage of tourists go down and the parks are increasingly filled with AP holders that are unlikely to spend even close to the amount the tourists do.

It has been mentioned that Disney creates collectibles etc especially for AP holders. Is that because that is the only way they can be guaranteed that AP's will spend the extra money in the parks? If AP holders were spending in the parks I don't think Disney would feel it necessary to create a separate market of merchandise etc for them to buy.

Anyway, I just think that it is sad that people are having such bad experiences that they just simply don't come back

 

[nunzia]

I think there should be a poll for that. I haven't been able to get a very clear idea of who are locals and who live far away. I am 6ish hours away, which I don't necessarily think is close, but I am definitely able to make a weekend trip more easily that a lot of people(depending on funds).

You can get from SJ to Anaheim in 6 hours?? I thought it was mnore like 8? Or you drive fast?
Really.there is no animosity toward SoCal Apers in 90% of this thread IMO. To me it was just a comment that they can fill the park and if that's an issue you might want to look at blackout days and plan accordingly. Just like any other crowd planning stategy. No one resented people who went in the summer since school was out, but they planned around it. Things have changed and so planning should change. When WOC opens I'll be there toward the beginning and will see how crowds are and will maybe find ways to work around it on the days I'm there..maybe they'll have a dessert thing or something or maybe I'll just suck it up and brave the masses..but at least I know to expect tons of SoCal people, and again, no resentment..if I lived in So Cal I'd be right there with them to do the special things..

 

[Sherry E]

If I am understanding this correctly, from the information I have read on this thread, this is the basic gist of how things have been going. Over the last few years Disney has been increasing the types and numbers of AP's to get bodies in the front gates, obviously with the idea of increasing profits (that is the reason businesses do things). Over the same timeframe profits have been going down and not up. Put 2 and 2 together and you have to come up with 4.

I think it is sad that this has caused people such as SarahDISer (above) to not return.

When you are talking about a business bottom line I think Disney may be going about things completely the wrong way. Hypothetically can I do some figures? Take any ordinary given week, Monday to Sunday. Let's just say that of the total of all people going during that week 50% are AP holders and 50% aren't. The 50% that are not AP holders are likely to be tourists on holidays from overseas or from across the USA. This 50% have come with thousands of dollars to spend in the parks (excluding accom etc) they are quite likely to have brought money to burn.

The 50% of AP holders may be buying a meal, or a few meals. They might even be staying overnight or something. But it's unlikely they will be buying hundreds or possibly thousands of dollars of souveniers (or anything else within the parks) during their stay. At the end of the week of the total money made by Disney the tourists have contributed a disproportionate amount.

Given this scenario the majority of the money is coming from 1 group of people - the tourists. They are not coming JUST to ride the rides. But if this group is having such a bad experience that they will not return again then the profits go down. Each year the percentage of tourists go down and the parks are increasingly filled with AP holders that are unlikely to spend even close to the amount the tourists do.

It has been mentioned that Disney creates collectibles etc especially for AP holders. Is that because that is the only way they can be guaranteed that AP's will spend the extra money in the parks? If AP holders were spending in the parks I don't think Disney would feel it necessary to create a separate market of merchandise etc for them to buy.

Anyway, I just think that it is sad that people are having such bad experiences that they just simply don't come back

Only in regards to the bolded paragraph above, Disney creates collectibles for everything - every facet or every aspect of every division of Disney employees, fans, etc. They always have. There used to be the Magic Kingdom Club card - those holders would get special collectibles. Then there was the Disney Club (which replaced the MK Club), and those holders got special pins and things as a perk, exclusive to them. Now AP holders get an occasional pin or other trinket. D23 members will get their own stuff too. That, to me, does not seem like Disney trying to get AP holders to spend $$$. That is just Disney doing what it always has done. That is nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[DLR29]

When you are talking about a business bottom line I think Disney may be going about things completely the wrong way. Hypothetically can I do some figures? Take any ordinary given week, Monday to Sunday. Let's just say that of the total of all people going during that week 50% are AP holders and 50% aren't. The 50% that are not AP holders are likely to be tourists on holidays from overseas or from across the USA. This 50% have come with thousands of dollars to spend in the parks (excluding accom etc) they are quite likely to have brought money to burn.

I know we're speaking hypothetically with the numbers, but here is where your post is not realistic. If 50% are AP holders and 50% aren't, that 50% that aren't is probably not mostly tourists on vacation. Most of DLR's attendance is composed of locals (AP holders or not). I'd say most of that 50% that aren't AP holders are still locals (within a couple hours) and aren't going to be spending that much other than admission and maybe a meal or two. Then they leave and carry on with their lives.

The main problem out of all of this heated discussion is: DLR's main attendance? Locals who don't spend as much money. DLR's main profit? Vacationers who spend lots of money. Who should DLR cater more towards?? And we have seen both sides presented and argued for. And I think the question is unanswerable.

You can get from SJ to Anaheim in 6 hours?? I thought it was mnore like 8? Or you drive fast?

We get there in about 7 and we're about a half an hour north of SF. Of course, now that I have my license... Watch out! jk

 

[SuzanneSLO]

Just for some historical perspective, it was in 1985 that DL permanently moved to a 365 day per year schedule. Before that M & T were closed in the off season.

Also, it was not until 1982 that DL entirely did away with the per attraction tickets and went to a single admission which included all attactions. I beleive the original price was $10.75 for a single day. -- Suzanne

 

[merrrydeath]

I think a lot more AP holders are out of town than are being thought into these equations. Many people who try and take 2+ trips a year have realized that buying APs is a really great deal for them. If you take two trips and stay for 2 days, that easily covers the price of the AP. Then for any trip you are able to take after that, you don't have to buy admission tickets. This allows guests to come more often because they only have to think of travel and hotels. This would be an example of AP holders who spend just as much in the parks as "tourists" on food and souvenirs. They are tourists as well, they just found a good deal.

Just because you aren't a local who can go every week doesn't mean you can't get an AP and have it be a good deal for you.

 

[Canyon girl]

I think a lot more AP holders are out of town than are being thought into these equations. Many people who try and take 2+ trips a year have realized that buying APs is a really great deal for them. If you take two trips and stay for 2 days, that easily covers the price of the AP. Then for any trip you are able to take after that, you don't have to buy admission tickets. This allows guests to come more often because they only have to think of travel and hotels. This would be an example of AP holders who spend just as much in the parks as "tourists" on food and souvenirs. They are tourists as well, they just found a good deal.

Just because you aren't a local who can go every week doesn't mean you can't get an AP and have it be a good deal for you.

Merrydeath, this is our case. We live 8 hours of extremely fast driving away. We bought APs and will go on our 3rd trip on these APs in Sept. It is a great deal, and we still spend TONS on money on these trips. I, like you, believe that many of these AP holders are not the "locals" that several seem to say flood the parks every weekend. AP holders that are local fill a vital need for Disney. While many think that Disney does not "cater" to tourist, they actually do. Maybe DLR needs to follow WDW's lead and make the MMs only for their resort guests! I think that this alone would help fill their resorts to capacity, but then it might tick off some others. Why should I have to stand with people who didn't feel it was necessary to stay "onsite?" That question sounded elitist, didn't it? This is not my intent or felling. My point is this...LOCALS ARE NO MORE OR LESS IMPORTANT THAN THE TOURIST!!! CONVERSELY, TOURISTS ARE NOT MORE OR LESS IMPORTANT THAN THE LOCALS!!! I think that we should allow Disney to make their own business decisions and stop saying that there should be no APs.

ETA: How many of you "tourists" are taking your food, eating in your room, taking snacks into the park, and eating on Harbor? So, which group is eating in the park and putting their money into Disney? I think that both groups contribute to Disney's bottom line.

 

[fairycat]

If I am understanding this correctly, from the information I have read on this thread, this is the basic gist of how things have been going. Over the last few years Disney has been increasing the types and numbers of AP's to get bodies in the front gates, obviously with the idea of increasing profits (that is the reason businesses do things). Over the same timeframe profits have been going down and not up. Put 2 and 2 together and you have to come up with 4.

Actually if you look at the profit information shown earlier in the thread profits are down because of Paris and WDW, it does not say if DLR is down or not. If the two "resorts" are down, and DLR is not then AP's are working, but we don't know that since the information is not clear, again all we know is the other two parks are down. Basically what I am saying is that with out a clearer report of where DLR is in the figures we really don't know how they work in.

 

[raftislander]

I think that merrydeath is correct and that there are many deluxe and premium AP holders who live more than a five hour drive away from DLR. My daughter and I love going to the parks- DH sometimes joins us. We live in Washington State. We are heading to the parks this October and I am seriously considering upgrading our two of our three four day parkhoppers to DAPs. It is the cost of a multiday pass that makes the cost of any trip to DLR zoom upward as you can find bargains in airfare and hotels. If I do upgrade and plan next years trip while the pass is still valid, I have saved money. If I can combine cheap air fare and the HOJO entertainment rate on a room, then I might also be able to swing a third trip into the mix. Which would be fabulous. Now if I do upgrade, do I no longer fall into the tourist category? Nevertheless, looking at the 800,000 AP holders, I have to think that most of these live within a hour or two of the park. And while I don't miss living in SoCal, I envy these people their proximity to the park and their ability to drop into the park for a few hours.

Looking at this historically, Before you went to the combined entry/attraction all day ticket, lots of locals would go over in the evening to hear music or dance or watch fireworks. DLR has always depended on the locals to keep the park operating in the black. WDW was built as a destination resort and it needs people coming to stay on property for a week. The parks just work differently

 

[DLR29]

My point is this...LOCALS ARE NO MORE OR LESS IMPORTANT THAN THE TOURIST!!! CONVERSELY, TOURISTS ARE NOT MORE OR LESS IMPORTANT THAN THE LOCALS!!! I think that we should allow Disney to make their own business decisions and stop saying that there should be no APs.

Thank you. That was my point too, just my post was buried at the bottom of the last page. Tourists provide profits (whether they be AP tourists, such as myself, or not) and locals provide crowds/attendance. DLR needs both in order to survive. Therefore they need to cater to both, which I think they do very well.

 

[merrrydeath]

] Now if I do upgrade, do I no longer fall into the tourist category?

That's where I see a problem in this "tourist"/AP crowd issue. A lot of AP holders are tourists whose ticket choice is the AP. They spend just as much on travel, food, and souvenirs. If we knew better the ratio of local APers to out-of-town ones, I think we'd be able to better understand the effect the APs have on crowds and Disneyland Profit.

 

[Eeee-va]

Just chiming in that I'm a non-local Deluxe AP-holder too. I'm not resentful of locals (and depending on what is actually offered for Halloween, I may even behave like one ). Actually, we used to go to Disneyland annually and never once did my family consider that if we were able to stagger our trips so the second trip started a little less than a year before the first, that we might be able to save money. (If the APs existed then.) So I have to thank the Internet for teaching me that money-saving lesson.

But I can see where tourists might be resentful that their park experience is very crowded, and I get a bit annoyed at how much Disney seems to be focusing on locals, giving them 3 days for $99, super-discounted Annual Passes, payment plans (which I know they can't offer elsewhere for legal reasons), etc. The whole AP issue did make me much more nervous about crowds on my own trip, though in reality I found them bearable throughout.

Is there anything besides Magic Morning that DLR actively does to give tourists who don't have APs any advantage over locals? Right now locals can get in for less than half the price that tourists pay. That just further skews the numbers in favor of the locals.

If the economy stays this way and I go back without an AP someday, I am going to strongly consider visiting on a blocked-out holiday weekend. Actually, even a non-local can currently get 10 days in the park for significantly less than a Premium AP, so for crowd avoidance, buying two sets of tickets for two trips might be the way to go (versus going three times instead).

 

[blackjackdelta]

Actually if you look at the profit information shown earlier in the thread profits are down because of Paris and WDW, it does not say if DLR is down or not. If the two "resorts" are down, and DLR is not then AP's are working, but we don't know that since the information is not clear, again all we know is the other two parks are down. Basically what I am saying is that with out a clearer report of where DLR is in the figures we really don't know how they work in.

I think Tokyo Disney is also included in the mix of parks that are underperforming.

Jack

 

[fairycat]

I think Tokyo Disney is also included in the mix of parks that are underperforming.

Jack

I thought Tokyo wasn't 100% Disney owned so was treated a little different in the figures?

 

[3Minnies1Mickey]

I think a lot more AP holders are out of town than are being thought into these equations. Many people who try and take 2+ trips a year have realized that buying APs is a really great deal for them. If you take two trips and stay for 2 days, that easily covers the price of the AP. Then for any trip you are able to take after that, you don't have to buy admission tickets. This allows guests to come more often because they only have to think of travel and hotels. This would be an example of AP holders who spend just as much in the parks as "tourists" on food and souvenirs. They are tourists as well, they just found a good deal.

Just because you aren't a local who can go every week doesn't mean you can't get an AP and have it be a good deal for you.

Absolutely! We are a family of six with 2 under the age of 3 (yeah for being FREE!). We are taking a trip in September and even with utilizing the 2 free days, our tickets for 2 adults and 2 kids are over $700. It will cost around $296 to upgrade all our passes (factoring in the price increase, minus our bday fun cards). Now we can do another long trip next year without budgeting another $1300 for hotel and tickets alone. Heck, I'm hoping to do a long weekend with DH for our anniversary in January (since it's the first anniv in 4 years where I haven't been preggos or nursing a baby!). If it wasn't for APs we'd probably do Disney every other year. Now we can do every year and do APs every other year if I plan it right.

 

[teatime]

ETA: How many of you "tourists" are taking your food, eating in your room, taking snacks into the park, and eating on Harbor? So, which group is eating in the park and putting their money into Disney? I think that both groups contribute to Disney's bottom line.

well, if you go read a thread in the micechat threads most of the local ap's say they bring in there own water, and eat before leaving home. some buy a snack, but usually never buy food in the parks.
when I go........... I eat every meal in the park, I pay a fortune in food !this year for the three of us decided 700.00 was enough for the meals we booked for, and then re decided we would need another few hundred.

I also buy things, and until this year have stayed on site many times. spending $3,000 or more on each trip.

 

[Canyon girl]

Teatime, I think that what I was trying to get across was lost in the translation. Both groups contribute in different ways. You say that "most" of local APs bring their own water. You yourself said that you are ordering water to take into the park. The point is that both groups use cost saving measures. The economy is bad, so it is reflected in both groups. The locals are on "staycations." The "tourists" are bringing their own food and water and eating in multiple places to include Harbor. The point is that Disney needs both (actually 3) groups: local AP holders, distant AP holders, and the typical "tourists." We all work together to keep Disney afloat. Now, if we could get that union that keeps picketing to see that we are all in this together, we'd be set.

 

[teatime]

Teatime, I think that what I was trying to get across was lost in the translation. Both groups contribute in different ways. You say that "most" of local APs bring their own water. You yourself said that you are ordering water to take into the park. The point is that both groups use cost saving measures. The economy is bad, so it is reflected in both groups. The locals are on "staycations." The "tourists" are bringing their own food and water and eating in multiple places to include Harbor. The point is that Disney needs both (actually 3) groups: local AP holders, distant AP holders, and the typical "tourists." We all work together to keep Disney afloat. Now, if we could get that union that keeps picketing to see that we are all in this together, we'd be set.

I agree with you 100% I think Disney needs both non aps and ap'rs.... But I do think it would benifit both groups to limit the days any Ap can go in when the busy season starts. Most travelers travel in summer months, as there kids are in school or college. Local ap's can go more often . even though there kids are in the parks, there are always the weekends, and off season usually is what 8 months of the year?

 

[Rowlf]

well, if you go read a thread in the micechat threads most of the local ap's say they bring in there own water, and eat before leaving home. some buy a snack, but usually never buy food in the parks.
when I go........... I eat every meal in the park, I pay a fortune in food !this year for the three of us decided 700.00 was enough for the meals we booked for, and then re decided we would need another few hundred.

I also buy things, and until this year have stayed on site many times. spending $3,000 or more on each trip.

Weren't you the one just saying that you wouldn't pay $3 to get a set of ears embroidered??? And complaining about the cost to get water delivered to your hotel by Vons? Which is it - do you spend money there or not?

I'm a semi-local Deluxe AP holder, and I spend about $100 to $200 each day we come to DLR. I splurge on fun things for me and my son because we don't have to pay for admission. Just read the boards - there are plenty of "tourists" who are worried about refrigerators in the rooms on off-property hotels, etc, because they don't want to buy food in the park.

The rudest people I have encountered in our last few days there were the free birthday people who were always complaining about not being able to park hop, not getting enough "recognition", or just being annoying. I'm ready for the whole birthday thing to be done with!