Heineken Beer Ad - Pulled after online backlash

[wvjules]

Well I'm white so I don't see racism in everything. If this commercial was reversed with a slogan darker is better, I wouldn't think anything of it.
Would a black person think that was blatantly racist?

Wow is all I have to say to your bolded comment.

 

[GreatLakes]

Much ado about nothing. Pretty par for the course with fake Internet outrage these days.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Well I'm white so I don't see racism in everything. If this commercial was reversed with a slogan darker is better, I wouldn't think anything of it.
Would a black person think that was blatantly racist?

Does it really matter where you see racism though? Obviously everyone has different experiences and looks at things through different lenses based on that experience. If enough people see something a certain way maybe we all should just consider what they are saying and learn from someone else's experience.
I wouldn't have seen the ad as anything other than saying light beer is better. Now that it's been pointed out that people looking at it through a different lens see something different I can understand their point. Isn't there point of an ad like this to convey a message? It seems like the ad was sending a different message than it intended and once it was pointed out the company pulled the ad.

 

[Hikergirl]

Wow is all I have to say to your bolded comment.

Well as a white person I see things through that perspective, I didn't say I don't see racism, I said I don't see it in everything.
The problem with you is that you are going to try to turn it in to something else, that poster said "if you can't see it..." how about you let people discuss that instead of trying to start something.
I want to know that if the commercial was reversed, would black people see it as racist? Or would they see it through their own perspective? As a white person I wouldn't expect them too view it as racist, I would expect they just see a commercial for beer.
Are white people always supposed to see racism in everything, or can they just make things like a commercial (or watch) a commercial and it not be "blatantly racist" and just be about what it is?
I guess you would rather not have a real discussion.

 

[Hikergirl]

Does it really matter where you see racism though? Obviously everyone has different experiences and looks at things through different lenses based on that experience. If enough people see something a certain way maybe we all should just consider what they are saying and learn from someone else's experience.
I wouldn't have seen the ad as anything other than saying light beer is better. Now that it's been pointed out that people looking at it through a different lens see something different I can understand their point. Isn't there point of an ad like this to convey a message? It seems like the ad was sending a different message than it intended and once it was pointed out the company pulled the ad.

That is my point, that everyone sees things differently. That says it is blatantly racist, but then everyone would see it that way, there would be no mistaking it.
I don't see it as racist, I see it as a commercial touting a light beer. The question still remains, would it be racist if the races were the opposite? If not, then how can it be blatant racism?

 

[MamaBelle4]

Well I'm white so I don't see racism in everything. If this commercial was reversed with a slogan darker is better, I wouldn't think anything of it.
Would a black person think that was blatantly racist?

I'm white too. I don't always notice racism, but when a person of color tells me that they feel something is racist, I reevaluate it from their perspective (or try my best to). We are all different and we all have different experiences and our differences change our perspectives.

And if it was a black bartender and a black patron and a dark Porter sailed past a bunch of white patrons and then the tag line was "Sometimes darker is better" you'd better bet your bottom dollar that there would be an uproar.

Does it really matter where you see racism though?

Precisely. If someone says they feel something was racist it doesn't matter if others disagree.

 

[Colleen27]

Yeah, I see where it would be taken offensively considering the historical and social significance attached to lighter skin. (And yes, I think a "sometimes darker is better" ad using a similar set-up would be equally problematic because it would call to mind all the times darker *isn't* better in our culture). And the stupid part is, there are so many other ways to go with that slogan that have funny-memorable potential that going with a skin-tone concept at all just seems really done deaf.

 

[Hikergirl]

I'm white too. I don't always notice racism, but when a person of color tells me that they feel something is racist, I reevaluate it from their perspective (or try my best to). We are all different and we all have different experiences and our differences change our perspectives.

And if it was a black bartender and a black patron and a dark Porter sailed past a bunch of white patrons and then the tag line was "Sometimes darker is better" you'd better bet your bottom dollar that there would be an uproar.



Precisely. If someone says they feel something was racist it doesn't matter if others disagree.

It doesn't matter, that poster can feel whatever they want, but they can't make a claim about what it is for EVERYONE to feel based on their interpretation of that commercial.
And, this is a discussion board so if you are going to share your feelings then you should expect others to share theirs and they may not be in agreement. Or, are topics like this only allowed to be discussed IF you agree?

 

[MamaBelle4]

It doesn't matter, that poster can feel whatever they want, but they can't make a claim about what it is for EVERYONE to feel based on their interpretation of that commercial.
And, this is a discussion board so if you are going to share your feelings then you should expect others to share theirs and they may not be in agreement. Or, are topics like this only allowed to be discussed IF you agree?

No, I'm happy to have this discussion with you. I'm just saying if someone feels something is racist, it doesn't matter if others disagree, the original person still feels marginalized. Not that other opinions don't matter, but that it doesn't change the original person's perspective.

I happen to believe that it is blatantly racist and if it were reversed it would be blatantly racist still.

 

[sunshinehighway]

That is my point, that everyone sees things differently. That says it is blatantly racist, but then everyone would see it that way, there would be no mistaking it.

I don't think that's coming across in your posts. You are getting bogged down in arguing about one person saying it's blatantly racist. Putting your focus on that is just making your argument read more like are dismissing the whole idea that the ad can be legitimately viewed as racist.
Ultimately who cares if some random person says it's blatantly racist and everyone should see it?

 

[MillauFr]

Well I'm white so I don't see racism in everything. If this commercial was reversed with a slogan darker is better, I wouldn't think anything of it.
Would a black person think that was blatantly racist?

That is because darker is better. Why would anyone think that lighter is better? That is why Heineken is in trouble. We all know that light beer is lousy. The only conclusion one could obviously make is that they were alluding to skin color. When Starbucks came out with the "Blond" coffee everyone knew it was a joke, because who wants watered down coffee?

 

[wvjules]

Well as a white person I see things through that perspective, I didn't say I don't see racism, I said I don't see it in everything.
The problem with you is that you are going to try to turn it in to something else, that poster said "if you can't see it..." how about you let people discuss that instead of trying to start something.
I want to know that if the commercial was reversed, would black people see it as racist? Or would they see it through their own perspective? As a white person I wouldn't expect them too view it as racist, I would expect they just see a commercial for beer.
Are white people always supposed to see racism in everything, or can they just make things like a commercial (or watch) a commercial and it not be "blatantly racist" and just be about what it is?
I guess you would rather not have a real discussion.

Your originals statement (Well I'm white so I don't see racism in everything.), to me, implies that nonwhites see racism in everything. That is how it comes across to me.

 

[Hikergirl]

I don't think that's coming across in your posts. You are getting bogged down in arguing about one person saying it's blatantly racist. Putting your focus on that is just making your argument read more like are dismissing the whole idea that the ad can be legitimately viewed as racist.
Ultimately who cares if some random person says it's blatantly racist and everyone should see it?

It was more the comment "if you can't see it....." that I'm questioning.
As a white person I don't see it as blatantly racist. I see a commercial that they thought may be clever, but I don't see racist intent.
I'm just asking would a black person, if the races and slogan were the opposite?

 

[Hikergirl]

Your originals statement (Well I'm white so I don't see racism in everything.), to me, implies that nonwhites see racism in everything. That is how it comes across to me.

Fair enough. I could have worded that differently, but as a white person I don't see racism in things like commercials, or ads, or statues, or flags, among other things I won't mention. That doesn't mean I think that non-whites do, but it sure seems that there is always something popping up as racist when that may not have been the intent.
I use these as an example because in recent times these are the things that so often get "called out", just like in this case.

 

[jrmasm]

Fair enough. I could have worded that differently, but as a white person I don't see racism in things like commercials, or ads, or statues, or flags, among other things I won't mention. That doesn't mean I think that non-whites do, but it sure seems that there is always something popping up as racist when that may not have been the intent.
I use these as an example because in recent times these are the things that so often get "called out", just like in this case.

You are one white person. Just because you don't see things doesn't mean others don't. And you shouldn't presume to be able to speak for others.

 

[penn19]

That is because darker is better. Why would anyone think that lighter is better? That is why Heineken is in trouble. We all know that light beer is lousy. The only conclusion one could obviously make is that they were alluding to skin color. When Starbucks came out with the "Blond" coffee everyone knew it was a joke, because who wants watered down coffee?

i don’t like darker beer. That might be “your” opinion but not mine. I’m white so that might mean I’m racist. Or just that i happen to like lighter beer. Uncultured swine that I am.

 

[DopeyDame]

Well I'm white so I don't see racism in everything. If this commercial was reversed with a slogan darker is better, I wouldn't think anything of it.
Would a black person think that was blatantly racist?

I'm white, and I don't see racism in everything either. Nor do my racial minority friends and family. I do, however, think this commercial is tone-deaf at best and possibly out-right racist.

 

[DopeyDame]

How many commercials have you seen recently? I couldn't care less what color of skin the actors have, but we must be watching very different commercials. It seems to me most companies are making an effort to include all races or leave white people out completely. Now I know there's a reason for that. I still don't care.

I would encourage you to actually count and keep track some time. There are many studies that show that white people tend to overestimate the percentage of minority people in a given setting. And if the racial percentages in a room are actually reflective of the area, then many white people will say that white people are being left out. The same is true with people overestimating how much women speak - when the speaker is a woman 50% of the time, people usually say that women dominated the conversation, even though it was split appropriately for the proportion of people there.

 

[DopeyDame]

That is my point, that everyone sees things differently. That says it is blatantly racist, but then everyone would see it that way, there would be no mistaking it.
I don't see it as racist, I see it as a commercial touting a light beer. The question still remains, would it be racist if the races were the opposite? If not, then how can it be blatant racism?

Yes. to your question, yes. If Guinness ran an ad where the beer passed by a bunch of freckle faced read heads and landed at an African American, and had the tag line "darker is better" it would be just as bad.

Feel better now?

 

[gotomu212]

That is my point, that everyone sees things differently. That says it is blatantly racist, but then everyone would see it that way, there would be no mistaking it.
I don't see it as racist, I see it as a commercial touting a light beer. The question still remains, would it be racist if the races were the opposite? If not, then how can it be blatant racism?

That’s a weird logic. You’re saying that if there’s one holdout that doesn’t think something is racist, than it can’t be blatantly racist? I guess under that umbrella nothing could ever be blatantly racist/sexist/homophobic/etc.

To your second point ABSOLUTELY if they were sliding a beer past white or lighter people to the darker or black person at the bar saying “Darker is better” it would still be racists. Claiming that one race is superior to another is the literal definition of racist.

One final point ”saying well I’m white and so I don’t see racism everywhere” is also textbook white privilege. Honestly in today’s time I can understand needing to examine long held views and find that you weren’t aware of certain issues and quickly evolving, but clinging to those ideas and trying to debate them is just ugly.