What is going on with Disney parks?

[kimwoje]

We are cruising DCL July 2020 and I am currently very much on the fence for plans post cruise. We have done WDW every year staying at the Poly for the past 5 years but our trip this summer was just so much work! The whole magic band upgrade debacle really bothered me and I just can’t justify the value anymore with all of the cutbacks and difficulty of planning. Just looking at what other experiences are out there for the same price as Disney has me seriously thinking about where my $$ is going. Leaning toward doing something besides Disney post cruise next summer and I think my husband has me convinced to go to Hawaii in 2021 (priced it out and can do 2 weeks for the price of 1 at WDW).

 

[jkohmi]

I think the constant upcharges and nickel and dime-ing (resort parking charges, I'm looking at you) almost hurts more than plain increases. Having to pull out my CC and hit "buy" a bunch of different times during the planning process starts to feel like death by a thousand paper cuts...it reminds me how much the trip costs regularly because the spending steps in the planning stage aren't just book the hotel and buy the tickets and then not actually spend money again until I get there. Now it's book the hotel and buy tickets (oh, hey, which dates did we decide exactly again? we need to make sure those dates are all covered by the ticket range!!), then also buy event ticket for Monday, buy different event ticket for Wednesday, oh, don't forget to book the dessert party on Friday, do we want to go to that party event on Thursday because I've heard crowds are low for those...and that just makes me think about my budget more. The last thing Disney wants is for me to be thinking about my budget more because I'm quickly going to start thinking a little harder about whether or not this particular trip is the best use of those vacation funds, even if the total amount is still within my budget. All of that happens during the early planning, too, giving me plenty of time to change my mind.

And yes, it is possible to do a trip without any upcharge events (my family only does a dessert party, and that's just because right now my kids love it), but I STILL feel like the constant upcharge events and things like paying for parking have impacted my overall feelings about the trips negatively. Parking fees are obvious actual charges, but hard ticket events also affect the people who don't go because of the reduced hours, decreasing the value of their normal ticket.

Rapid large increases haven't helped, though. That last AP increase...I was an out-of-state AP, and having the AP meant taking more trips. I GOT the AP, though, because we could easily break even on 2 trips, so we spaced our yearly trips for just shy of a year apart. Then, since I already had the AP, random cheap flights were enough to convince me to book another trip. Now I think the break-even point is too high. I won't actively plan more than 2 trips per year, so if the break-even point requires more than that, I won't get the AP...even though if I did get the AP, I can almost guarantee I'd sneak in at least one extra trip just because there was a flight sale or something.

 

[hertamaniac]

Someone on the Dis Unplugged podcast once said something like once you move to Orlando "for" Disney, you see it exposed. As a local, I fully understand that position. We have been here for almost 20 years and have enjoyed our AP's so much (not just the park visits, but the discounts/offers). We have stayed onsite for getaways and enjoyed our experiences. I have also not stayed onsite, but near Disney Springs just to have a weekend getaway and also enjoyed our experiences.

I think the new rides/attractions coming down-the-pike are exciting. But my problem is that they waited too long to execute the build schedules. For example, now you will have a full-blown construction site at EPCOT for the foreseeable future. MMRR delay really was the straw that broke my optimism back.

We enjoy visiting the resorts at the holidays using the Disney Springs free transportation. But, this is the first time I have ever questioned the value of purchasing an AP as a local.....and I'm talking the weekday pass.

I am disenchanted with the money grabs regardless if we can afford AP's. Someone said the optics don't look good for WDW and I think that's the correct assessment.

 

[Future_WorldPhonencian]

Alot of great posts on this thread. My take is that people are 1. overwhelmed by the planning, 2.underwhelmed by others reactions/ reviews, and 3. are being turned off by the prices.

1. WDW needs to simplify their planning process. I think the 60/30 fp system is fine, but 180 days for dining is ridiculous. Disney also needs to be more up front with park hours. They have a pretty good idea of when they will be open they need to go ahead and give real hours. Same thing with emh... go ahead and standardize the emh schedule. Finally those date based tickets kill off any spontaneity ppl might have otherwise had. If it rains or you have a travel delay you are out of luck.

2. People read reviews for everything online now. you cant hide from that. SWGE is visually stunning but most reviews say the ride is soso and everything is overpriced. Compare that with avatar... everyone was wowed and word spread like wildfire abt FOP and look 3hr waits 3 years later. Want to pay to visit an abandoned 80s shopping mall under construction with restaraunts that you can spend more money at? Welcome to Epcot! People read reviews and watch vlogs now you can’t hide when everyone has a camera on their phone.

3. Disney has always been expensive but now its expensive and involves lots of planning. The more people spend, the more they expect the more easily they are disappointed. When people feel like they are being ripped off or the value isnt there they dont make return trips. that is disneys bread and butter. repeat guests bring their kids tell others and spread the brand. One and doners do the opposite.

 

[SaintsManiac]

The planning is what has pushed me over the edge. I am the type of person who will nuke a plan and start over 70 days out and it’s getting tougher to do that. Without Touring Plans ADR finder I would be winging reservations during a busy holiday week. I don’t want to do that.

I’m also incredibly frustrated with the time it takes for them to update park hours. Adding events, adding hours, it all affects my plans. I can be very flexible, but it’s not so easy to move certain things around.

I think I just need a break. I’ll be crying when I leave, but I need the push to visit elsewhere. I know we will never get APs again. They have definitely priced us out there.

 

[Jimmy Mouse]

Disney is pricing us out. I do have 3 trips planned and paid for but after these we are going to explore other destinations. We will still go to Disney but no more AP's and way less trips that we have been doing. There are many reasons why we are cutting back. Some of the reasons include what many others have stated. Too crowded, too expensive, park hours are too short, all the "Magic" is disappearing from the parks etc. I remember the time when you could go to MK in the morning, head back to the resort for a mid day break, head back to MK late afternoon and stay till 11 or 12 for ONE PRICE. Now most days have either an over crowded party or an after hours event so now for more money you get half the hours. If you want to do it the old way you basically pay admission 2 times. I have compared Universal to WDW and I can stay Club Level in Hard Rock, get park to park tickets and express pass with no set times AND do a day at Sea World for about half of a WDW stay. 2020 is all about change for us. I'll still give WDW my love but not all my love.

 

[kandb]

We went yearly to Disney for 10-14 days for the last 12 years with the exception of this year and perhaps next year. We loved our Disney vacations but they have gotten much more expensive and we feel like we are getting less with each vacation. When I started seeing almost $300/night for a moderate and up to $600/night for a deluxe, I realized the prices were getting out of control. Also, the price of the tickets were getting way too high. To spend over $2000 for park tickets for our family was just ridiculous. We don't go to the parks all day, we go around 4-5 hours a day and do resort and other things the rest of the time and I realized we were not getting our money worth out of the high price of the tickets. We love Disney but the prices have just gotten too much. Higher crowds and much higher prices, just not worth it anymore, even though we missed it this year and will probably miss it next year.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It's a bitter pill to swallow, knowing that I may not get a FP for the 7dwarvesMineTrain coaster( 2 visits and nada), or FoP, SDD and now GE. For the price of admission it is ridiculous to think I have to stand in line for HOURS if I want to ride. WDW isn't Great America

For many reasons that's why I don't want FP added to SWGE.

We had a 45-50min wait for one of our rides on Smuggler's Run in DLR but it actually went by fine. The line moved quite nicely and you rarely stood in one place for more than 2 maybe 3 minutes before shuffling along. Conversely seeing 5 or 6 people from the SB line be let in on TSMM in DLR then hoards of FP people..yeah that 40mins wait was brutal just brutal. So was RSR when none of us could figure out why they wouldn't let anyone suddenly from SB go through but they were continuously letting through people from the FP line. Like no one would be coming up through the FP line and they still wouldn't let anyone from the SB line go. And before we were at least somewhat moving then we just stopped and didn't get going.

I find myself even getting caught up in the whole FP thing but really a lot of lines IMO would be better in overall time if there wasn't FP there and then you wouldn't feel so defeated when you couldn't get a FP for an attraction.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I think the constant upcharges and nickel and dime-ing (resort parking charges, I'm looking at you) almost hurts more than plain increases. Having to pull out my CC and hit "buy" a bunch of different times during the planning process starts to feel like death by a thousand paper cuts...it reminds me how much the trip costs regularly because the spending steps in the planning stage aren't just book the hotel and buy the tickets and then not actually spend money again until I get there. Now it's book the hotel and buy tickets (oh, hey, which dates did we decide exactly again? we need to make sure those dates are all covered by the ticket range!!), then also buy event ticket for Monday, buy different event ticket for Wednesday, oh, don't forget to book the dessert party on Friday, do we want to go to that party event on Thursday because I've heard crowds are low for those...and that just makes me think about my budget more. The last thing Disney wants is for me to be thinking about my budget more because I'm quickly going to start thinking a little harder about whether or not this particular trip is the best use of those vacation funds, even if the total amount is still within my budget. All of that happens during the early planning, too, giving me plenty of time to change my mind.

And yes, it is possible to do a trip without any upcharge events (my family only does a dessert party, and that's just because right now my kids love it), but I STILL feel like the constant upcharge events and things like paying for parking have impacted my overall feelings about the trips negatively. Parking fees are obvious actual charges, but hard ticket events also affect the people who don't go because of the reduced hours, decreasing the value of their normal ticket.

Rapid large increases haven't helped, though. That last AP increase...I was an out-of-state AP, and having the AP meant taking more trips. I GOT the AP, though, because we could easily break even on 2 trips, so we spaced our yearly trips for just shy of a year apart. Then, since I already had the AP, random cheap flights were enough to convince me to book another trip. Now I think the break-even point is too high. I won't actively plan more than 2 trips per year, so if the break-even point requires more than that, I won't get the AP...even though if I did get the AP, I can almost guarantee I'd sneak in at least one extra trip just because there was a flight sale or something.

The upcharge events kill me. It is annoying to have to plan for these things or around these things. They announced that cool looking viewing area at Epcot, and the only thought I had was “how much is the dessert party going to be in there?” Don’t even start me on the parties.

I can’t remember if it’s this thread or another where people are using the word optics. That’s exactly right, Disney is creating an optics problem. People have ALWAYS thought Disney was expensive and nickel and dimed people but for years you could explain to those people they’re actually wrong. You pay for your tickets, and lodging, budget for souvenirs and food and that’s basically it. Not anymore! Guests used to generally get the same opportunities with a ticket, there wasn’t really a need to consider add ons in park.

 

[DonnerB]

But are first time visitors having a positive experience or did they feel bewildered and shut out? Do they pass along positive word of mouth? Heck, do the fanatics even recommend a WDW vacation these days?

This is basically what I came here to say! I was in WDW for five nights in August with my sister and parents. It was my 8th visit (I'm 33), and my parents have lost track of how many times they've been. At one point, I said to my dad "I feel sorry for anyone trying to bring their family here for the first time." The planning is one thing. Booking FP+ at the exact moment our 60 day window opened, we were still shut out of SDD and didn't get FOP until our last evening, when we wanted to be in EPCOT to catch dinner and Illuminations. We ended up riding FOP during a Moonlight Magic with a 40 minute wait and gave up that FP day-of since we couldn't modify it to an earlier time. We only spent half a day at DHS, and never did get on SDD. Nobody wanted to wait the 75 minutes. Next time, I guess? For us, it's easier to swallow since we've done most of these things before and being DVC, know that we will likely get a chance to do them all again. The stress of doing this if it's a first trip or maybe a one-and-done trip...I can't imagine.

The decreased value also really got to us. As teenagers in the mid-2000s, my sisters and I remember plenty of evenings where MK was open until midnight or later with EMH. We knew if we stayed out late and slept in, we could still do plenty the next day, wherever we felt like going. Not where our FP+ dictated. On 2 of 5 nights this trip (in AUGUST), the MK closed at 6 for Halloween parties. Food prices have gotten absolutely ridiculous (and I'm a foodie in Los Angeles, I have no problem paying ridiculous prices if the food is actually worth it). A 5 day Park Hopper was approximately $100 more than the 5 day Hopper at DL I bought in June to bridge to an AP. I dislike the new pricing structure for these shorter trips. It used to be a no-brainer to add a day for ~$15 if you flew in late and could only go to the parks a couple hours. Now, it isn't.

Speaking of Disneyland, the $100 I paid to add MaxPass to my AP has been worth every cent. The last weekday I was there, I rode 18 rides in the 8 hours I was there while enjoying a leisurely table service lunch (with a reservation I made a few days prior) and a break to grab a beer and watch The Story of Coco in CA. DL was open until 11 pm. So to answer the question, no, this fanatic does not enthusiastically recommend WDW vacations these days. Although, with $199 peak 1 day Hoppers at DL, I can't say I really recommend visiting there enthusiastically, either :/

 

[BlackMagicWoman]

We are skipping Disneyworld next year. We love food and wine but the ticket prices are a real kicker. We are going to go to hawaii with our DVC points. We will return in 2021.

 

[erider]

I think the Disney parks are in a downward spiral right now. Constantly raising prices but cutting back on entertainment and other things, which sours people on the parks. Sure they are building new things, but it's too little too late if you look at how many really new rides they are adding. I am not coming for new gardens in Epcot and a new festival center, yet they spend so much money on that. I think Disney has gone too far with the price increases and have to discount now. Also add back entertainment (Main Street Electrical Parade return at Disneyland drew a lot of crowds in the evenings). They have to win the hearts and trust back of all the visitors they lost.

 

[Toolulu22]

I decided to start a thread since this is a huge topic as of late. Surely this isn't specifically news or rumors however we are seeing plenty of news and rumors based on the issues.

Attendance has been down. Disney's 2019 fiscal year ends September 30th. We do typically see cuts every year around this time but this seems to have a larger impact this year.

Pricing is part of it as well. Is Disney getting too expensive for people? Are we getting close to that tipping point?

SWGE isn't the draw it was expected to be? SO many reasons for that...

Big and popular entertainment options cut and other options more limited.

Photopass boxes being expanded...

Where are you with this? Why do you think this is happening? What is your breaking point in which you would not return or take an extended break?

What makes me personally want to return? The things that set Disney apart, the special touches, and memorial experiences. Someone said this on another thread when they began charging for parking ‘because it is the standard practice’. The statement was something about how Disney used to set the standard, not follow the standard. This resonates with me. If you charge a premium, you must be better than and not just be the standard.

With the cuts aforementioned and prices ever increasing, add-on costs, I will definitively be going less often. Also, and more telling, I usually have this feeling the I can’t wait to get back again. But, I’m good. I can wait. I’m actually looking forward to the many other places that we can visit instead of Disney that will be a better value.

We’ll be back at some point, but I’m not sure when.

 

[mamaofsix]

Of course you are entitled to your own opinion on the political situation, and I certainly wouldn't try to dispute your personal experiences. But your statement regarding the USD/CAD exchange rate is just factually inaccurate. Aside from a relatively brief dip in early 2016, the CAD ranged from around its current level to much higher during Obama's term from 2009-2017.

Not that I'm suggesting politics is the only (or even primary) driver of the current exchange rate, just pointing out that the current situation for Canadians travelling south is much worse from a financial perspective than it was for most of the 8 years ending in 2017, objectively speaking.

We travelled to Disney in early 2016 during that dip, then again in 2018. So, that's the dollar I was comparing. Our trip cost significantly more in 2016...

 

[jo-jo]

I agree with the complaint of shorter hours and the parties. Going in early Dec, we have two nights that MK is open later. The other nights are 6 pm for parties and one is 4:30 for a CM thing. Due to this, we are forced to buy hoppers.

And yes, I feel for those to work to get those PPO ADRs , only to find out a month ahead, they are no longer PPO.

 

[Jocelynaus]

Today is our last day of our first (and only) trip. TBH I’ve had enough and are ready to leave. I’m sure in time we will look back fondly but I don’t really think it was worth the money or planning.

That’s with doing most things right, aside from MNSSHP our longest waits were only 25 minutes for busses, ordering room service and meeting woody and bo. Our biggest mistakes were the Halloween party and adding an extra night. The planning required is the worst part by far.

I don’t see value here and think a trip to Europe or Africa, which would be similarly priced would have been better (and involved LESS planning)

One Uber driver really highlighted the cost issue to me though, he had whiteboards in his car with Disney facts but then told me he’d never been himself due to cost.

 

[elephant98]

As a member of that generation I don't know anyone who is stretching themselves over any of these things.

How many in your generation are having children? Going from the "baby boomers" to "generation x" to "millennials" to now "generation z" (or whatever you want to call it), the trend has gone from couples having children in their early twenties, to having children in their late twenties/early thirties, and older. Obviously, its too early to know the definitive trend for millennials and generation z; but, I know quite a few young couple who proclaim that they don't plan on having children at all. This is anecdotal, of course, and certainly subject to change as they age into their thirties and beyond (particularly, millennials as they are first up). But, it makes me wonder if the relative lack of younger couples with children is having a current impact on attendance at Disney parks.

 

[sponica]

I was in high school at the time of the first Harry Potter movie, or close to done high school somewhere in there.... I think I'm on the "old" end of millenials at almost 36 though... ?

I'm right there with you...and I probably wore out the VHS tapes of the Star Wars movies. I don't think GE is the reason attendance is down...

We now resume regularly scheduled programming...but I do hope that something gets "fixed" somewhere. I never went to Disney as a kid because it was too far away and too expensive for our family of 5, my mom scraped together the money for the 2 of us to go when I graduated HS. I was hoping to expose my daughter more regularly but if the sky is the limit on pricing, I'm not sure if that is possible.

 

[EllieBride]

Each year, I find myself more saddened by the changes at WDW specifically. What others have already said... the extra ticketed-events/reduced park hours; needing to plan FP and ADRs so far in advance; diminishing value vs increasing costs of tickets, food, parking, etc. It doesn't matter that we can afford it. It just made me so angry that I felt no other choice than to purchase the HEA Dessert Party tickets on last year's trip in order to provide a semi-enjoyable experience for my family because HEA was only offered twice during our week's stay (the rest of the week was MVMCP, another ticketed event) and the park was so crowded that you could not move. And yes, I have tried not making ADRs and just "being flexible." We've been left wandering around for hours with little kids with phones in front of our faces in search of a place to sit down and eat. It's not a family-friendly experience and it really enforces the need to plan ahead.

We have a spring break trip booked (because we have the DVC points available and want to get away from the up north winter), but right now, I am leaning toward using it as a hotel-stay only. I had assumed we would want to check out GE, but I'm not sure it's worth the price. Next Tuesday is our ADR day, and park hours aren't even available. It's making me lean toward spending our time at Universal and maybe Daytona and/or the Space Center. The Beach Club has a great pool in it's own right.

Last year, we rented some of our points and used them toward our DCL cruise in Alaska - a much better experience than WDW has become. Next summer, we will be taking a DCL cruise in Northern Europe. I am happy to have our kids see new parts of the world. We will add Aulani to the list in the next couple of years, too. My hope is that things will turn around at WDW and we will be able to enjoy our DVC stays there again some day. But unfortunately, it's lost a lot of the magic that it used to have for me.

 

[firefly_ris]

I think there were some misses with GE, probably, but I definitely don't think that project is the sole reason things are getting weird.

It's kind of a perfect storm of different things, most of their own making. Getting rid of non-expiring tickets, slashing hours and adding in more ticketed events in their place, adding 8 billion upcharge dessert 'parties', hiking prices a few times in a single year, adding the date restrictions, charging for parking... they kept chipping and chipping away one thing at a time, to see what would happen -- and I guess nothing bad happened at first and they kept chipping, but if you chip away too much the whole thing starts to crumble.

They highly depend on good will of their long term visitors as well as those long term visitor's word of mouth.... you start losing them, you start losing business.

My husband will randomly bring up WDW to other families and about how they should go, and that I can help them plan it because he thinks I'm some kind of planning wizard because of my basic FP system knowledge (he doesn't even like Disney either, so he must really be impressed to bring it up) and I always try to steer the conversation somewhere else because they either talk about how expensive it is, OR I start thinking about how overwhelmed these families would be as first timers and probably not have a great time then come home and be mad that we recommended it! Kind of sad.