What is going on with Disney parks?

[tlmadden73]

How many in your generation are having children? Going from the "baby boomers" to "generation x" to "millennials" to now "generation z" (or whatever you want to call it), the trend has gone from couples having children in their early twenties, to having children in their late twenties/early thirties, and older. Obviously, its too early to know the definitive trend for millennials and generation z; but, I know quite a few young couple who proclaim that they don't plan on having children at all. This is anecdotal, of course, and certainly subject to change as they age into their thirties and beyond (particularly, millennials as they are first up). But, it makes me wonder if the relative lack of younger couples with children is having a current impact on attendance at Disney parks.

But is it really lack of attendance that is the issue at Disney Parks? I think even though younger people may not have kids, they are still going as the "Instagram" generation to enjoy the "experiences" there of food and photos. So while decades ago, a single person in their 20s wouldn't be caught dead alone at WDW, now they are going in droves.

I am of the Gen X generation and had kids WAY later in my life. I didn't go to Disney in my 20s ..and not until my late 30s (when I had kids) . .(now I can't stop going).


I think attendance at Disney parks is fine (when you consider that low attendance now is probably higher than crowded attendance decades ago). They just may be overextending themselves and need to find that balance of guest satisfaction versus packed parks.

 

[Phicinfan]

Great thread. So there is a double edge sword. For years Disney lovers cried about the lack of investment in the Parks. Disney started a few years ago with investment in Magic Band technology, the reimaged Fantasy land, Avatar land, New Hollywood studio lands-toy story and SWGE. With Tron coming in Magic Kingdom, the Mickey ride in Hollywood studio, the total re do of Epcot we are talking Billions of dollars. These do not come cheap, the result is higher costs-a lot higher costs. Do we complain, of course. The alternative would have been to keep the stale status quo. Personally I prefer the updating and re imagining, that is why I can go twice a year and still find new things to do. Luckily I can afford, but am not stupid enough to realize that many cannot even go once (my parents Never could afford to take me when I was young). So, we each have are own take on how to view Disney's action.

My issue with your point of view is costs to go to Disney have escalated for years while the park did nothing but make money and profits. So you can't come to me NOW when you finally realize you have to invest, and THEN say you have to raise costs to cover that investment. Sorry, use the Billions of $$$$ you have been collecting. Thanks

 

[mshanson3121]

I decided to start a thread since this is a huge topic as of late. Surely this isn't specifically news or rumors however we are seeing plenty of news and rumors based on the issues.

Attendance has been down. Disney's 2019 fiscal year ends September 30th. We do typically see cuts every year around this time but this seems to have a larger impact this year.

Pricing is part of it as well. Is Disney getting too expensive for people? Are we getting close to that tipping point?

SWGE isn't the draw it was expected to be? SO many reasons for that...

Big and popular entertainment options cut and other options more limited.

Photopass boxes being expanded...

Where are you with this? Why do you think this is happening? What is your breaking point in which you would not return or take an extended break?

Sorry, I didn't see this thread first, after my comment on the Star Wars one.

Pricing: I would suspect that yes, pricing is definitely a big part of it. I do think Disney is getting too expensive for people, and I suspect they're hitting their tipping point. We have free tickets that we're sitting on, my hubby has given me the go-ahead to plan one more trip (something I've been dreaming of!)... and.... honestly, I'm really not sure we're going to. Every time I price it out, as cheap as I possibly can, it's crazy. We can do 2 trips elsewhere for the price of Disney. The tickets alone, even with the Canadian discount just released today, for 4 day base passes is $2125 (CDN). And that's just to walk through the gates!!! That's not travel there, food, lodging, or any spending. I think that is really just not doable for most families. And for those that can afford it, I think most people that can afford it regularly, have more interest in seeing the rest of the world. Those that have the financial means for and the interest in regular repeat trips to Disney are the rarer exception.

SWGE: Granted, I haven't been so I can't say, but I have seen a lot of complaints of horrible food, people being disappointed because it's not really a recognizable land, that while the details are amazing, that it's also kind of...barren, not a lot of entertainment available and that the ride is only so-so. I know ourselves personally, we're kind of disappointed because it sounds like both rides will be heavily VR-based which will trigger my husband's motion sickness, and will freak out my kids, so it's already lost most of it's appeal to us.

Entertainment cuts: these just make me sad. Some of the things being cut are things my kids loved. Also, one of their biggest complaints is that ride wait times are too long. Well.. cutting popular entertainment isn't going to help that. For a lot of people, it's the entertainment that largely makes Disney what it is. If they lose that...

Photoboxes: don't even get me started. This ticks me off, big time. For starters, forget about ever buying Memory Maker again. But honestly... the biggest thing thing for Disney for my kids, is meeting the characters. That's the biggest draw for them, and their best memories. And I'm sorry, no box is going to capture moment like a photographer will. Some of our best shots/memories from those meet and greets were the candid shots that were "out of view" of where those boxes shoot. It's being able to capture those candid moments - the joy in their eyes as they're waiting in line etc... Yes, we can hand our phone over to the CM. But we're talking about one CM who has to split her attention between taking photos, keeping people moving in line etc... And regardless, it's just the whole principal of it. Disney is not hurting for money. They (and arguably their share holders), are just greedy. They're all making more than enough money - they just want more. They're not even close to losing money, so don't cry hard times to me. All these cuts make me far less interested in spending my money on visiting Disney. Why should I keep paying more, for less?

Where am I: I'm at the place of being very torn. Of in a way, wanting to go back, but honestly wondering if we really will. I'm just getting a more and more sour taste in my mouth with them, and really not sure it's worth it.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Historically guests who had made 2 trips in a year saved money with an AP. Price 5 day hoppers. AP similar in price as buying 2 5 day hoppers. The issue isn't really high AP prices, it's high ticket prices.

I agree with this. Without the just released Canadian discount this morning our 10 day hoppers were about $200 more a person than our last trip, 2 years prior at time of travel. Tickets have gone up like crazy, APs followed suit. How could they not?

DH and I are taking a bonus kid free trip and bought APs for the first and only time. Lucky us, it was after the increase. It still made financial sense to do it vs buying tickets for both our trips.

 

[DisneyKoyote]

I'm going to Disney for the 1st time ever in November with my boyfriend (first timer as well). And I already know based on prices alone I will not be going back for a long time. The planning is stressful, the prices are sky high, and we didnt even go yet! We're already estimating a ~$6-7k total spend there for the 2 of us (although included in that is a very exp dinner at V&A), which could be well spent on other destinations overseas. The first thing I tell other people is how expensive Disney is (which they already know), but the crazy planning is what really shocks them.
Considering the amount we're spending on a THEME PARK, you'd think we were splurging for all the top amenities/VIP treatment. But realistically it's just an average trip....

 

[jkohmi]

I think we're starting to see the result of the Instagram generation on the economy.

Most people now seem to believe they must present this fake image of themselves being far more successful than they really are. They must over stretch themselves to have a better car, better phone, better house than they can really afford - all on monthly payments. Many people simply have nothing left at the end of each month to save for holidays like they did a few years ago.

On top of this disney is offering less value than ever for more money than ever. Most parades are gone. Evening shows just aren't like they used to be. Dining prices going up for lower quality and less choice.

Then there is universal who have seriously upped their game in the last 10 years.

As a member of that generation I don't know anyone who is stretching themselves over any of these things.

Also, I think it's worth noting that much of the older millennial population was entering or had fairly recently entered the job market during the recession. There wasn't much time for them to build up savings or retirement earnings or pay down student loan debt or anything prior to the recession hitting, and then when things picked back up, they now had a whole lot of catch-up to do...right when they were having kids and paying for daycare, and that can be a HUGE expense (the amount we paid in daycare bills when our two kids were in full-time care was eye-popping big). By now a lot of those kids are probably aging out of daycare, freeing up money that could potentially be used for travel, but it also could be used to bump up retirement savings, pay off those student loans that may still be hanging around due to decreased income during the recession, save for college, etc. I don't think millennials as a whole are nearly as financially irresponsible as clickbait makes them out to be...they just started their careers already behind because of the timing of the recession, and catching up after that is legitimately hard.

Perhaps it's not that they are stretching themselves too thin to impress people (also, a good millennial can make anything look pretty on Instagram, lol!) and not having anything left over at the end of the month, but instead that they bought within their means and just choose to use what they do have left over at the end of the month to catch up on lost earning potential earlier in life or just to save up for some other thing they want. At least, that is the case for the majority of people who are my age (millennial/gen x cusp) that I know. If I say I'm broke and can't go to dinner this week, I don't mean I literally cannot afford to go to dinner. I mean I am not willing to prioritize going out to dinner this week over putting that amount of money into savings or toward something else right now.

 

[Nanceliz319]

This is a great thread!! I was floored when I added up the cost to budget for our trip for Jan 2021. It's gotten crazy expensive!
Also, I agree with a previous poster that I miss the old fast pass system with same day fast passes. I wouldn't be against making some available say a week before then the rest same day. Having to decide what park and times 60 days ahead is tough.
Also, I will miss the nighttime parade at MK if they still don't have one when we go. It was part of the magic for us.
Thanks to everyone for their comments here.

 

[adam.adbe]

My issue with your point of view is costs to go to Disney have escalated for years while the park did nothing but make money and profits. So you can't come to me NOW when you finally realize you have to invest, and THEN say you have to raise costs to cover that investment. Sorry, use the Billions of $$$$ you have been collecting. Thanks

Moreover asking the guests of today to pay for the experiences of the guests of tomorrow is not how business works. Disney aren't a kickstarter campaign.

 

[Tiki Birdland]

maintain the amount of people they want in the parks

There ARE other ways to do this besides raising prices. Simply cap the number of guests each day. This is just a money grab masked as crowd control.

 

[rteetz]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/25/dis...hip-for-disneyland-and-walt-disney-world.html

 

[AvidDisReader]

Go many great ideas! The best IMO is that Disney needs to take a deep breath and pause future increases--by at least 2 years. There is nothing that indicates Disney would ever roll back prices-but start offering better discounts. While the elimination of the Add ons would be nice, again I do not see this happening. So what does need to be done. Finish the existing projects. WDW is complete chaos with all the construction and construction walls. It Aesthetically looks horrible, certainly not the WDW fans are used to. Three of the parks should be able to accomplish this within a year, only EPCOT which is going thru a complete do over will take significantly longer. I am at heart an optimist and believe when 2021 rolls for the 50th, WDW will again be the place of choice for families to vacation.

 

[MickeyMouse3!]

I believe, as other posters mentioned, there are too many projects going on and people are waiting to see the unveiling of those new additions. WDW will be a little slower than usual over the next year or so because of it. However in 2021, when much of the work is scheduled to be completed, and it being WDW's 50th anniversary, the parks will be as busy and crowded as ever.
Rising costs of everything, from resorts, to park tickets, to airfare, to food and beverages, to souvenirs and other things, are major contributors.
I don't think CM's have anything to do with whether people visit or not. Although Disney does seem to be fading out that human element as much as possible.
I also think lower attendance has a lot to do with millenials not seeming to be as interested in hands on experiences. They are coming of age, for travel and life, and seem more interested in cyber things rather than experiencing them first hand. They can just as easily "visit" the parks via youtube or some other social media means and are ok with that.
Personally, I'm ok with lower attendance. Maybe then I'll be able to score a fastpass to a popular ride or not have to wait an hour or longer for an attraction.

 

[Brianstl]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/25/dis...hip-for-disneyland-and-walt-disney-world.html

Colglazier gets more parks under his control. It really appears that Iger has now positioned Colglazier to replace Chapek if the US parks and resorts don't turn around. Game of Thrones Burbank edition.

 

[rteetz]

Colglazier gets more parks under his control. It really appears that Iger has now positioned Colglazier to replace Chapek if the US parks and resorts don't turn around. Game of Thrones Burbank edition.

He is certainly one that could take Chapeks role. I think Kalogridis and D'Amaro could also be in there. George and now Josh have both headed both major Disney resorts in the US.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Among the many issues raised here, I think the new ticketing structure is quietly a very significant factor.

WDW vacations are supposed to be fun!

Instead, from start to finish, the process has become increasingly unreliable and frustrating.

Let's start with WDW's horrible no-show dining fee policy!
WDW has 180 days to have a table available for our arrival, yet they regularly fail to have one ready on time.. Before the meal even starts, getting to the meal is frustrating, via WDW's unreliable transportation. (Ooh, so now we can PAY for more reliable transportation. Lucky us!)

Instead of fixing THEIR problems, they opted to penalize us. Ugh! Restaurant podium staff can't tell us how long the wait for our table will be, but opting not to wait = a fee?!??! Ugh! I'm hungry, and I just want to eat. Why is eating at WDW so frustrating?

Now, WDW added byzantine opaque ticket rules; another stunningly BAD policy decision. It is SO bad, the CM's can't even answer basic ticketing questions! Ugh! Buying tickets via the website is even worse. It doesn't work. Buying WDW tickets should NOT be MORE frustrating than paying for airline tickets or medical expenses!

Yet it is.

And that's just the start of how complicated and confusing a trip to WDW has become.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

While the elimination of the Add ons would be nice, again I do not see this happening.

Alas, they are another example of policies that are overly confusing and annoying.
It isn't just the cost of the add-ons. It is the process of buying them and using them.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I STILL feel like the constant upcharge events and things like paying for parking have impacted my overall feelings about the trips negatively. Parking fees are obvious actual charges, but hard ticket events also affect the people who don't go because of the reduced hours, decreasing the value of their normal ticket.

Oh, then you'll love this"

On our most recent trip, we were not only CHARGED to park at CR,

we were also BLOCKED from using the main/prime parking lot!

The hotel closed it off for a SW event, and it just sat mostly empty.

Even more special, the hotel didn't even TELL US the lot was going to be closed. WDW just turned off the electronic gate to the parking lot, and we had no choice but to park in the secondary parking lot that's out along the road.

In the moment, it didn't ruin our day...just y'know, one more little frustration.

 

[Searc]

I think the point is, though . . . "someone else" is not filling in for those who have reached their breaking point. Hence, the plummeting attendance.

Apparently those on these boards who claims "it's always busy at Disney, there are not 'light crowd' times anymore" have been proven wrong.

I know our breaking point was breached the last trip. Too expensive for the diminished experience, large amount of closures, long wait times despite low crowds (obviously staff cut-backs), etc. Instead of every two years, we'll moving to about once every five.

Perhaps, also, one of the problems with Disney announcing all of it's new attractions years in advance means that folks are simply delaying their trips until more things are open. Maybe for 2019 it's not so much economics, but people delaying their trips until after Rise of the Resistance opens. Maybe Jan-Mar will be swamped...

My breaking point was this last trip when a 6 oz cup of basically lemonade was $18 at the walk up pizza window in Italy. Are you freaking KIDDING me?! Of course, there was no price listed on the menu. Stupid me for paying for it.

 

[Searc]

They timed things wrong, IMO. The price increases, the blackout dates, the opening of SWGE with only one ride, the Skyliner, Mickey's RR, etc... Over promised and under delivered all with a price hike. I also think changing the way you buy tickets was a mistake (limiting days, having to have specific date, etc...). They waited to long to upgrade EPCOT. I feel they are making mistakes with the new hotels.

The bolded succinctly sums up WDW the last at least 5 years.

 

[rteetz]

The bolded succinctly sums up WDW the last at least 5 years.

Not completely. I think you could say the opposite for something like Pandora. Many were like why and this is gonna suck and now it’s one of the most popular things at WDW.