State of Fast Pass Return (or replacement)

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The history of WDW's woefully incorrect webpages would suggest otherwise.

I doubt they had any idea what the plan was when they put the note up about FP+ suspension. From the inside "sources" being posted here (which mostly disagree with one another), I'm not sure WDW currently has a concrete plan on what is going to happen with FP+.
Fair and likely true. To me, it sounds like they wanted to roll out a “new system” for the 50th. Likely Genie, which they originally announced back at D23 2019. But the pandemic likely set that back and while it sounds like they’re testing it now….Genie isn’t playing well with others lol. Which isn’t surprising, they had similar issues integrating systems for MagicBands and that took years of testing.

The problem is that they underestimated how quickly people would push for “normalcy”. That’s why they are facing staffing issues and being forced to keep in step with Universal who has removed capacity caps and has Express Pass working.

Do I think they want to reinstate old FastPass+ exactly as it was? Nope. Do I think they are facing increased pressure to have to do exactly that for the interim? Yup.
 
It’s becoming less and less worth going to WDW. At this point, you mind as well save that $5000+ for your vacation and save it towards maybe going to sports games, buying a new car, buying a new house, etc. Disney doesn’t care about the guests as much as they used to. They simply want your money, and that’s it. They don’t care if you wait in lines for hours and have to pay to get through them quicker. It’s the cold and hard truth that everyone needs to face.

They've always just wanted your money. That romantic idea that somehow Disney cared more about their customers than a lot of other corporations was as big a fantasy as Mickey being real. But they do care about guest satisfaction because that's what allows them to make money. It may well be they can afford to alienate those guests who spend less, budget more by attracting guests who spend more, but they will cater to those guests willing to spend just like they always have.

And no, they don't personally care if we spend all day in line except for how it affects spending habits and to the point that it could cause customers to look elsewhere. If they didn't care about lines, they wouldn't be trying their best to get the new system in place for those guests they are trying to keep happy. It just may be that you aren't the guest they're targeting. And that's no different than any other business. They all have target customers.
 
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Worded this way, I agree with what you are saying. Overall planning a Disney trip is pretty complicated. FP+ is though more difficult than say, Universal express pass. I mean, yeah it simple to click a button and hit the tines and done. But the things others have mentioned about trying for a party of 4 and it says no room, but you can book 2 parties of 2 at the same time. A lot of people wouldn't think to try that unless they'd read about it . They'd just assume that if theres no room for a single party of 4 they won't have room for 2 parties of 2. Yeah, for those of us who've done it it seems common sense. But for a lot of people, they aren't going to think about that. And honestly no other theme park that I've ever been to even requires you to do that. You just buy an overall express pass and go when you want to ride that ride. There's no learning curve required at Universal or Six flags to use those. You just show up. I think the fact that there IS a learning curve required is most peoples complaint about FP.

Yea I probably (and regretfully) worded it in a not so great way originally (it was more of a response to the comparison then the logistics of it I think). But yes I think you are spot on. Disney just requires a ridiculous learning curve for all aspects of the experience. Some aspects are worse then others. We def use that to our advantage being experienced with it. But I do think for the sake of accuracy that it’s worth seperating/compartmentalizing the certain parts of Disney to really see what actually is easy and what is difficult with Disney. Because that deep learning can easily blend into everything making everything appear as if it’s more difficult then it might be. I’m not a TA but I plan a lot if Disney trips for people and I run into the inexperienced people as much as the experienced people, so I totally understand where this all comes from.
 
What you are describing has to do with stategizing, but not the system itself. These are not loopholes, these are features that allow you to enhance your FP+ and Disney experience, if you want to! But you don’t need to. And adding rides ontop of the original 3, just isn’t complicated in comparison to the large picture that is Disney. And here’s my general point regarding that, hopefully this is a little more clear.

You get 3 rides, that’s easy. When you go to Six Flags, Cedar Point, Disney, Universal, etc there are many people going to the park to see and experience these attractions. With that, comes crowd patterns, lines, etc. You could easily go into the park and ride every ride you want and wait in line for every ride, time permitting of course. And you can do that without any strategy and without any line cutting system in place.

Now let’s talk about the scenario of wanting to experience particular rides or attractions. If you are new, then it’s safe to say you have done some preliminary research to learn about said attractions (whether it’s talking to friends or reading about it online, etc). This means, you now have priorities in your head regarding your touring experience. And this means, if you want to experience your priorities then you have to strategize. Executing a good strategy requires a bit of insight into crowd levels, crowd touring patterns and some other logistics. Think, I want to ride X, crowds are lower at night so I will ride Z and Y during the day first and wait in those lines, knowing X will be shorter at night. This isn’t about Disney expertise or being on these boards with a lot of experience. It’s research into strategizing how to optimize your experience. That goes for everything in life, all the way down to planning what route you will take if you drive to work one traffic ridden morning. But those complexities that force you to strategize to create an optimal experience, is due to Disney’s park, the layout, the attractions, advertisements of those attractions, park hours, time of year you are going, is this tied to any events, crowd pattersn, etc etc. Disney World is massive. Is Disney World more complicated then any other parks around the world? Absolutely. There are 4 gates to huge theme parks, each unique with its own offering.

So yes, Disney requires more research to strategize. And this is what you and the poster I was originally responding to is talking about, in my opniob. Because fastpass is a system that sits ON TOP of that and allows you to enhance those strategies. But to say that fastpass is complicated or requires intricate knowledge of the system itself to utilize it isn’t because Fastpass is complicated. It isn’t. As I said, you pick three in one park and then pick more once you rode the original three. That isn’t complicated. Sure there are extra strategies on top of that to help you maximize your fastpass usage that maybe the average person doesn’t realize or Disney doesn’t advertise well on. Those aren’t loopholes though. But that also doesn’t mean the fastpass system is complicated and tilted towards those with huge amounts of experience. It means that the parks themselves are complicated and if you want an efficient touring strategy then you need to understand the parks, how complicated they can be and THEN how to use fastpass to try and make those complications easier (or harder depending on your Disney expertize level).

But to say that fastpass is complicated (or that it compared to the tax system in this country in that people can take advantage of it because it is so complicated) is still ridiculous and completely misses the point that Disney itself is the complication, and now the fastpass+ system that was created to try and MAKE those complications easier for the average guest.

I understand where you are coming from but I believe you and the original poster I responsed to are infusing Disney’s inherent complications with being so massive and offering so much (precovid at least) with fastpass+ which is in no way shape or form as complicated in concept or in practice. If you want to maximize it, then it requires you to research a bit more and figure out how others have maximized it. It’s a learning curve but it assumes the bigger learning curve that is Disney World itself, has already been figured out.

Once again, my overall point, fastpass+ isn’t complicated but Disney World itself is. And that’s the real problem that is being missed here but cannot be fixed. So people blame fastpass, I get that. But if you don’t like complicated, then why are people even bothering with Disney in the first place? But the concept of fastpass+ and the setup of it was not complicated at all in my opinion. It doesn’t require deep level Disney experience that MANY other aspects of Disney actually require in order to cross off those experiences on a list.
This is so true. DH and I visited a small local amusement park on vacation last week and we utilized our Disney planning skills and techniques. We were first in line to ride the Antique Cars, which is hands down the longest wait in this park. We then did this park counter-clockwise because we know everyone goes the other way when entering. We were able to do every attraction in this park and waited in lines for only 2 of them. Other family members were with us and couldn't believe how we strategized to avoid almost ALL of the waits. We even ordered lunch before noon to avoid the lunch-rush. When we walked by the food stand 45 minutes later, there were at least 30 people in line waiting to order. If you know your way around a bit and give it some thought, you can avoid the longest lines anywhere.
 
WDW has suspended FP+. Insiders (who have been correct in the past) say FP+ is not coming back.

Any "insider" who gives an absolute on what is going to happen is an "insider" not worth listening to. If they really were "insiders" and really knew one way or the other, they wouldn't say so and put their sources at risk. This may be what you want to happen, it may be what I don't want to happen, but there is no one outside of a very few inside WDW that know for sure. Those with inside sources don't give absolutes and if they do, they don't stay around long.

I think with all the bits of information we have, it's clear it's very likely that it's not returning permanently, but it is far from clear it won't be back in the interim while they get their ducks in a row with any new system.
 
This is so true. DH and I visited a small local amusement park on vacation last week and we utilized our Disney planning skills and techniques. We were first in line to ride the Antique Cars, which is hands down the longest wait in this park. We then did this park counter-clockwise because we know everyone goes the other way when entering. We were able to do every attraction in this park and waited in lines for only 2 of them. Other family members were with us and couldn't believe how we strategized to avoid almost ALL of the waits. We even ordered lunch before noon to avoid the lunch-rush. When we walked by the food stand 45 minutes later, there were at least 30 people in line waiting to order. If you know your way around a bit and give it some thought, you can avoid the longest lines anywhere.
Show-Off!!
 
Its more that people don't always understand the loopholes that allow some to get 12+ per day, while others struggle to get 5-6. The 1st 3 are easy. Its the rest of them that they are referring to. You know what's interesting to me here? The way that those who know how to exploit the loopholes and the strategies talk down to those who bring up the issues with the system like those who didn't just know about those things automatically or those who struggle with them are idiots or somehow undeserving of those same fastpasses. Not everyone spends a great deal of time on these boards and knows the tricks to pounding the app or the times for drops or that you can even get more than 3. I think the point of the post you were responding to is that it should not take that much research or time spent of these boards to know these things exist or are possible. It shouldn't be a thing you have to research and practice. It should just be something Disney was up front about. And the whole "well I knew about it and got all these so easily and never had to make a spreadsheet or do anything ahead of time" responses does not make that true for everyone else and its kind of condescending

Editing to say I shouldn't say loopholes bc they aren't really loopholes, just strategies that take some researching to find out about.

If you don't focus on headliners you can pull FP after FP with little effort or knowledge. As soon as you tap into one you can pull another with the nearest time. You don't need loopholes or drop times, you just need to know how to schedule a FP in the app.
 
Any "insider" who gives an absolute on what is going to happen is an "insider" not worth listening to. If they really were "insiders" and really knew one way or the other, they wouldn't say so and put their sources at risk. This may be what you want to happen, it may be what I don't want to happen, but there is no one outside of a very few inside WDW that know for sure. Those with inside sources don't give absolutes and if they do, they don't stay around long.

I think with all the bits of information we have, it's clear it's very likely that it's not returning permanently, but it is far from clear it won't be back in the interim while they get their ducks in a row with any new system.

This. I will never put my friend at risk. I will also never speak in absolutes because Disney changes their plans constantly.

There's a lot of discussion going on with what exactly to do among the decision makers when it comes to this. Some still want to hold out and wait, but like Remy said with the failed tests and expected long lead time to get this up and running... that contingent is getting quieter as they get closer to the anniversary and the huge expected summer crowds with increased capacity. As of now I believe FP+ will be back at least temporarily, but the when and for how long is unknown atm, or my source just isn't able to say.

Just like the rest of you I'm hoping more gets released on it sooner than later.
 
The only thing that gives me solace is that the rides still hold the same amount of people no matter what they do. There will still be X amount of people getting on each ride as before.

While it will make rides like "Rise of the Resistance" more challenging to get on, I wonder if upper middle-tiered rides like Soar'n and Tower of Terror will be impacted much by such a crappy system. Either way, I am still fuming about Magical Express.
 
If you don't focus on headliners you can pull FP after FP with little effort or knowledge. As soon as you tap into one you can pull another with the nearest time. You don't need loopholes or drop times, you just need to know how to schedule a FP in the app.
I'm aware of that.
 
Honestly, until WDW can get the parks and resorts fully staffed, I have doubts they can implement anything until then
 
Like this mean fast pass could start on 16th July to
Quite possible. They won't restrict DAS or VIP/Club 33 who currently use the FP line (and always have). But changing the number of guests that can return on a rider swap seems like it could be a precursor to expecting an increase in use of FP lines....
 
Yea I probably (and regretfully) worded it in a not so great way originally (it was more of a response to the comparison then the logistics of it I think). But yes I think you are spot on. Disney just requires a ridiculous learning curve for all aspects of the experience. Some aspects are worse then others. We def use that to our advantage being experienced with it. But I do think for the sake of accuracy that it’s worth seperating/compartmentalizing the certain parts of Disney to really see what actually is easy and what is difficult with Disney. Because that deep learning can easily blend into everything making everything appear as if it’s more difficult then it might be. I’m not a TA but I plan a lot if Disney trips for people and I run into the inexperienced people as much as the experienced people, so I totally understand where this all comes from.
Yes!!! The complexities of things like rope drop, and figuring out you can actually get into the park well before the posted opening hours to get that advantage, and the other 1000 things all sort of blend together to make it overwhelming, even if you've been a couple times. It isn't really that getting a FP is hard, it's the knowing that you should aim for FOP, SDD, etc first, instead of doing all 3 for day 1, then all 3 for day 2, or knowing that if you really want to maximize how many you can get you need to plan them all in the morning bc if the only time you can get SDD is 6pm you are screwed as far as getting any more. Or knowing that you have the best chance at scoring those hard to get FP if you schedule those parks at the end of the trip or whatever. I think those are the things that make fp difficult. Not the actual process of just grabbing a random fp.
 
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