1/3 of older millenials share their salary info with their co-workers

[FairestOfThemAll37]

This. Exactly this.

Private for-profit enterprises, regardless of what their policy manuals might might say, are always bottom-line oriented. Employees are human "resources" to be acquired as economically as possible. Disliking it or resenting it doesn't change the fact.

This statement and sexism in hiring aren’t mutually exclusive. Getting two people as cheaply as possible can still mean the company has to pay a white man more.

ETA by has to I mean that societal and economic status quo says they have inherently higher value.

 

[Cirlonde]

Another 33 y/o not-quite-millennial-but-almost here. I don't go around trying to talk about my salary, but if it comes up in conversation I won't hesitate to say how much I make. Partially, this is because I work in the public sector and so my salary is public information anyway. And partially this is because I know I am underpaid for what I do (but that's a whole other conversation).

However, for me personally, I think my view on finances is more influenced by my views on being forthright and honest than it is by my "generation". It has always been my experience that being straightforward is always better than trying to be secretive about something. Using salary as an example, when people are secretive about what they make it just generates gossip that is generally incorrect.

For me specifically, I make about $5,000 more annually than the person I supervise (I'll call her "Jane"). But the person who used to supervise Jane made about $25,000 more than her. So Jane assumes that I make the same thing as her last boss and that caused some amount of bitterness. Rather than let that go on, I chose to be honest with Jane and tell her exactly how much I make. It completely changed the dynamic of our relationship, in a positive way...and now she's bitter on my behalf because she realizes I'm underpaid too!

 

[sam_gordon]

For me specifically, I make about $5,000 more annually than the person I supervise (I'll call her "Jane"). But the person who used to supervise Jane made about $25,000 more than her. So Jane assumes that I make the same thing as her last boss and that caused some amount of bitterness. Rather than let that go on, I chose to be honest with Jane and tell her exactly how much I make. It completely changed the dynamic of our relationship, in a positive way...and now she's bitter on my behalf because she realizes I'm underpaid too!

Are you underpaid though? About 2 years ago, my manager moved to corporate. I got his position. I wasn't given an opportunity to negotiate a salary. "Either take it or leave it." I decided to take it.

I then got the budget documents. The former manager made about $25K more than what I was offered. He also got more in bonuses. We started at the company about the same time. However, he was on a different track and made a manager 8 years before me. So he had more experience than me. Does that mean I'm underpaid?

 

[mnrose]

I guarantee they didn't offer him more than you just because he was a male. Companies don't just give money away. They got both of you just as cheaply as they could.

Trust me, I know it sucks when a new hire makes more than an experienced person, but it happens with female new hires too. I've seen it countless times.

When they said "no" to your salary demands, you caved. Maybe he didn't.

No. They told me it was "impossible." Clearly, it wasn't. When I learned he was being paid more, I marched into my bosses office, told them I was fully aware of his salary, demanded more. Got it. It wasn't the "only" time it happened with this same company. I saw it many times. Not an isolated example at all. Systematic belief that "men" were worth more. I was also asked, during my job interview, about my plans for having children. A flat out illegal question. Have you ever been asked that? I doubt it. Seriously doubt it. It was (and I suspect still is) something that women get asked. Now, it's probably more subtle than the direct question I was asked. And, mind you, I was a labor and employment attorney at that time. If they would do it to me, I imagine that it was a broad scale question that was asked. I could have filed a complaint, of course, but I did not....wasn't a wise practical choice for me to make (although it would have been a principled decision). And, that in a nutshell explains why employers get away with this crap.

 

[smiths02]

Another 33 y/o not-quite-millennial-but-almost here. I don't go around trying to talk about my salary, but if it comes up in conversation I won't hesitate to say how much I make. Partially, this is because I work in the public sector and so my salary is public information anyway. And partially this is because I know I am underpaid for what I do (but that's a whole other conversation).

However, for me personally, I think my view on finances is more influenced by my views on being forthright and honest than it is by my "generation". It has always been my experience that being straightforward is always better than trying to be secretive about something. Using salary as an example, when people are secretive about what they make it just generates gossip that is generally incorrect.

For me specifically, I make about $5,000 more annually than the person I supervise (I'll call her "Jane"). But the person who used to supervise Jane made about $25,000 more than her. So Jane assumes that I make the same thing as her last boss and that caused some amount of bitterness. Rather than let that go on, I chose to be honest with Jane and tell her exactly how much I make. It completely changed the dynamic of our relationship, in a positive way...and now she's bitter on my behalf because she realizes I'm underpaid too!

I'm at the older end of millenials at 36...I'm pretty sure you are a millenial
"The majority of researchers and demographers start the generation in the early 1980s, with many ending the generation in the mid-1990s."

 

[Hikergirl]

No. They told me it was "impossible." Clearly, it wasn't. When I learned he was being paid more, I marched into my bosses office, told them I was fully aware of his salary, demanded more. Got it. It wasn't the "only" time it happened with this same company. I saw it many times. Not an isolated example at all. Systematic belief that "men" were worth more. I was also asked, during my job interview, about my plans for having children. A flat out illegal question. Have you ever been asked that? I doubt it. Seriously doubt it. It was (and I suspect still is) something that women get asked. Now, it's probably more subtle than the direct question I was asked. And, mind you, I was a labor and employment attorney at that time. If they would do it to me, I imagine that it was a broad scale question that was asked. I could have filed a complaint, of course, but I did not....wasn't a wise practical choice for me to make (although it would have been a principled decision). And, that in a nutshell explains why employers get away with this crap.

I think that just proves what Gumbo said, they hired you as cheaply as possible. You didn't demand a higher salary when you were hired, you accepted what was offered then. Why would they try to give you more if you were being so demanding about it when you were hired?
You assume it was because he is a male, but maybe it was because you weren't assertive enough in the negotiations.

It so easy for employees to blame it on the system than to admit it may actually be them. Assumptions and opinions are not facts, so you can think what you want as to why someone is given a higher salary but you don't really know without a doubt.

 

[Cirlonde]

I'm at the older end of millenials at 36...I'm pretty sure you are a millenial
"The majority of researchers and demographers start the generation in the early 1980s, with many ending the generation in the mid-1990s."

Seems like they change the dates depending on who you ask, haha! I can remember being in high school and being labeled as Gen X (which Wikipedia claims ends with birth years in the "early 1980s"). So I don't quite perfectly fit in anywhere it seems.

 

[tvguy]

Salaries aren't what they used to be in many industries.
I started in a Union shop in 1979 and top scale was $20,000, which would be according to the inflation calculator $67,434 today.
The actual top scale today is $52,000, 23% less than in 1979 factoring in inflation.

 

[Darbie]

Another 33 y/o not-quite-millennial-but-almost here. I don't go around trying to talk about my salary, but if it comes up in conversation I won't hesitate to say how much I make. Partially, this is because I work in the public sector and so my salary is public information anyway. And partially this is because I know I am underpaid for what I do (but that's a whole other conversation).

However, for me personally, I think my view on finances is more influenced by my views on being forthright and honest than it is by my "generation". It has always been my experience that being straightforward is always better than trying to be secretive about something. Using salary as an example, when people are secretive about what they make it just generates gossip that is generally incorrect.

For me specifically, I make about $5,000 more annually than the person I supervise (I'll call her "Jane"). But the person who used to supervise Jane made about $25,000 more than her. So Jane assumes that I make the same thing as her last boss and that caused some amount of bitterness. Rather than let that go on, I chose to be honest with Jane and tell her exactly how much I make. It completely changed the dynamic of our relationship, in a positive way...and now she's bitter on my behalf because she realizes I'm underpaid too!

There is a difference between being secretive and tactful.

 

[Darbie]

I guarantee they didn't offer him more than you just because he was a male. Companies don't just give money away. They got both of you just as cheaply as they could.

Trust me, I know it sucks when a new hire makes more than an experienced person, but it happens with female new hires too. I've seen it countless times.

When they said "no" to your salary demands, you caved. Maybe he didn't.

Bull hockey. My husband was paid $5,000 more a year than a female colleague at his first job right out of college. They both had the exact same degree and same experience, which was zero. That company was a good ol' boys club and I'm glad he got out of it a few years later when they went under. I didn't find out about the salary discrepancy until a few years after he had left.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

No. They told me it was "impossible." Clearly, it wasn't. When I learned he was being paid more, I marched into my bosses office, told them I was fully aware of his salary, demanded more. Got it. It wasn't the "only" time it happened with this same company. I saw it many times. Not an isolated example at all. Systematic belief that "men" were worth more. I was also asked, during my job interview, about my plans for having children. A flat out illegal question. Have you ever been asked that? I doubt it. Seriously doubt it. It was (and I suspect still is) something that women get asked. Now, it's probably more subtle than the direct question I was asked. And, mind you, I was a labor and employment attorney at that time. If they would do it to me, I imagine that it was a broad scale question that was asked. I could have filed a complaint, of course, but I did not....wasn't a wise practical choice for me to make (although it would have been a principled decision). And, that in a nutshell explains why employers get away with this crap.

Of course it wasn't impossible. But, they made you believe it was. And they weren't able to make the next guy believe the same thing.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Bull hockey. My husband was paid $5,000 more a year than a female colleague at his first job right out of college. They both had the exact same degree and same experience, which was zero. That company was a good ol' boys club and I'm glad he got out of it a few years later when they went under. I didn't find out about the salary discrepancy until a few years after he had left.

A single instance proves nothing. Maybe he was more impressive in the interview. I have the flexibility to alter my offers by as much as $6,000 per year on the same level of experience and I always go higher if I really want a specific candidate.

Not saying the good ol boys club doesn't exist, and perhaps it did in that case. But, one example doesn't prove anything.

 

[MillauFr]

You want 10% raise, then don't do 5% worth of work.

How do you accurately determine the "5% worth of work"? In many jobs that is very difficult to determine. That is where the schmoozing and soft people skills come into play.

 

[sam_gordon]

No. They told me it was "impossible." Clearly, it wasn't. When I learned he was being paid more, I marched into my bosses office, told them I was fully aware of his salary, demanded more. Got it. It wasn't the "only" time it happened with this same company. I saw it many times. Not an isolated example at all. Systematic belief that "men" were worth more. I was also asked, during my job interview, about my plans for having children. A flat out illegal question. Have you ever been asked that? I doubt it. Seriously doubt it. It was (and I suspect still is) something that women get asked. Now, it's probably more subtle than the direct question I was asked. And, mind you, I was a labor and employment attorney at that time. If they would do it to me, I imagine that it was a broad scale question that was asked. I could have filed a complaint, of course, but I did not....wasn't a wise practical choice for me to make (although it would have been a principled decision). And, that in a nutshell explains why employers get away with this crap.

You know companies can change what they can afford, right? You said earlier the guy was hired more than a year after you. So the possibilities are:
A) He was a better negotiator than you.
B) The company's financial picture was better at the time he was hired.
C) It was because he was a male.
D) All of the above.

 

[Hikergirl]

How do you accurately determine the "5% worth of work"? In many jobs that is very difficult to determine. That is where the schmoozing and soft people skills come into play.

It is easy to determine in many jobs though. However if you are the type to assume one needs to perfect their brown nosing skills in order to get a better raise then maybe you just aren't in a field where your work can be measured. I think it's wrong to assume that anyone getting a lesser raise needs to brown nose more. Some jobs require you to work more effectively.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

Of course it wasn't impossible. But, they made you believe it was. And they weren't able to make the next guy believe the same thing.

Exactly.

I applied for a position in a large, national company. They were very interested in my skill set. During the interview I was told that they couldn't go over a set salary. I wouldn't change jobs for that amount. They continued to talk to me, and during the same interview offered me just over what I was looking for.

When I started, 3 others started with me. One black male, one white male, one white female and me, a white female.

The black male made the most, just over what I was making. He moved to the position from inside the company. And he had been making that amount already. He didn't take a pay cut. I was next in line, with the two others coming in at the same salary well under what I was making. We were all doing the same job.

The other two accepted the job at the set salary that the company offered me. I didn't. So I made more.

 

[Cirlonde]

Are you underpaid though? About 2 years ago, my manager moved to corporate. I got his position. I wasn't given an opportunity to negotiate a salary. "Either take it or leave it." I decided to take it.

I then got the budget documents. The former manager made about $25K more than what I was offered. He also got more in bonuses. We started at the company about the same time. However, he was on a different track and made a manager 8 years before me. So he had more experience than me. Does that mean I'm underpaid?

I do not consider myself underpaid by $25,000. I was just trying to make a point about the assumptions that are made regarding wages by co-workers when they don't have all the info.

I am underpaid by about $10,000 and this is according to my Director, not me. Unfortunately, due to the way state budgets work, all she can do is put in a special request. We haven't gotten cost of living increases in about 4 years; basically, when CoL money is passed out each department gets a set amount that can be distributed how the director sees fit with everyone getting at least a minimum increase. Since state funding has been cut, any raises given require special approval from the executive level...so it's a lot more red tape and not a common occurrence.

I wasn't trying to turn this into a complaint about being underpaid...I've made the choice to stay due to a lot of reasons that are not directly related to salary. It was just a personal anecdote to try to explain one of the reasons I think open conversations about salary are beneficial.

 

[Darbie]

A single instance proves nothing. Maybe he was more impressive in the interview. I have the flexibility to alter my offers by as much as $6,000 per year on the same level of experience and I always go higher if I really want a specific candidate.

Not saying the good ol boys club doesn't exist, and perhaps it did in that case. But, one example doesn't prove anything.

There are millions of examples proving exactly what I said. I'm going to believe the women that experienced it, not a white guy who claims it doesn't.

 

[bethy]

How do you accurately determine the "5% worth of work"? In many jobs that is very difficult to determine. That is where the schmoozing and soft people skills come into play.

Managing relationships is most definitely a huge part of most any job. Those who do it well are doing a better job IMO.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

There are millions of examples proving exactly what I said. I'm going to believe the women that experienced it, not a white guy who claims it doesn't.

Well, this white guy was told once that I wasn't getting an offer despite having the best credentials of all the applicants. The issue was I "wouldn't help them meet their diversity goals".

I took that specific incidence of admitted bias as an individual event, not an indicator of some rampant conspiracy against my demographic. But, that's just me.