6 in a 1BR post on Budget Board
- Thread starter Candace
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I think that if that is TRULY your concern, then the right thing to do would be to get a two bedroom and only use the living room and master bedroom. This way, the proper number of guests at the resort would remain constant and it wouldn't over fill any of the rescreation activities, the resturuant, or any of the other reasons that we have rules.
6 in a one bedroom is blatently breaking the rules.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?
6 in a one bedroom is blatently breaking the rules.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?
If you are that worried about your kids, why don't one of you sleep in the studio, with 1 child, put 2 in LR and 1 with other parent in master? JK - Sorry -I couldn't resist the suggestion.
Actually my only negative impression of BWV is why have a 1BR that doesn't sleep anymore than a studio. I believe it would be a much better arrangement and value to offer 1 bedrooms with 2 double/queen beds instead of a king. Like hotel units, they could have a mix of king and 2 bed units in the 1 BR. Is this just one more way for Disney to make money?
Actually my only negative impression of BWV is why have a 1BR that doesn't sleep anymore than a studio. I believe it would be a much better arrangement and value to offer 1 bedrooms with 2 double/queen beds instead of a king. Like hotel units, they could have a mix of king and 2 bed units in the 1 BR. Is this just one more way for Disney to make money?
jennybobenny
banana fanna fo fenny
- Joined
- Aug 19, 1999
Zurgswife, I'm not passing judgement, just curious. When you made the reservation with member services did you say there would be a total of 6 in the 1 bedroom? After the infamous 5-in-1 debate we know that 5 is allowed, but I'm not sure if we have any experience with 6. What about at check in? Again, just curious as to any obstacles (or lack thereof) you may have run into with the powers-that-be at DVC/BWV.
I wonder if this will bring Calbay out of his semi-retirement...
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I wonder if this will bring Calbay out of his semi-retirement...
<font face="comic sans ms"><font color="ff69b4">Jennybúoúbenny</font>
<font color="4169e1">DVC Member: 3/99
Onsite: Poly '76, Contemp '98, BWV '99, CBR '00, BWV '00, CBR '01
Offsite: '74 '80 '82 '88
Next trip: AKL/BWV~June '01, BWV~Nov '01</font>
<a href="http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jsmith12/jillian&kylecharacterpage.html">Jillian & Kyle's Disney Character Website</a></font>
Sorry that that sounds rough, but I really deplore the idea of the units being over-crowded and trashed. I think that is a major problem with renting points to people on the rent/trade board also. Many on the budget board that couldn't really afford the accomodations for their party in a delux resort can rent points and over-crowd a DVC resort.
6 in a room is nothing short of abuse. It flies in the face of every paper we signed and I really can't imagine the justification to the kids....well, those room limits are for other people?? is that the proper justification? Or Rules just don't matter? How about, when I sign something, it means nothing?
I do not mean to offend, I just mean to be reasonable. Six people in a one bedroom, sharing one bathroom, 50% over the room limits, simply isn't reasonable.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?
6 in a room is nothing short of abuse. It flies in the face of every paper we signed and I really can't imagine the justification to the kids....well, those room limits are for other people?? is that the proper justification? Or Rules just don't matter? How about, when I sign something, it means nothing?
I do not mean to offend, I just mean to be reasonable. Six people in a one bedroom, sharing one bathroom, 50% over the room limits, simply isn't reasonable.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?
dianeschlicht
<font color=blue>DVC-Trivia Contest, Apr-2006: Hon
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2000
but I have to agree with Rich here. We pay dues to keep these places up, and I always assumed members were mostly staying in them. Now I understand why some rooms get such hard use. I am sure that if only members stayed knowing there dues go up when things get bad at a resort, they would not over crowd the rooms. I for one would not want 6 people in one bathroom! I could understand if the children were all under 5, but this is not the case here. On our trip in eary December this year, we had a 2BR unit at OKW that took a very long time to be ready for us. The carpet was still wet in many places where they had to clean it to make it presentable for us. All the extra time for cleaning etc. is what makes dues go up. It's kind of like the smoking in a non-smoking room debate. The extra time for cleaning causes dues to rise. I know this was done by a renter, but it just makes me all the more cautious about not renting points. If this is the result, it would not be worth it to me. I feel sorry for the person in the unit below. The extra noise of too many people in too small a space is also a problem. 
Disneydiane
Disneydiane
I'm not about to enter the debate over the number of people in a room (just call me "chicken"), but the original poster stated that the person stayed at OKW. The times I stayed in a two-bedroom at OKW, it was just that. It wasn't a one-bedroom and a Studio. We stay in the group of buildings immediately after crossing the bridge (I believe 23-26).
WHile your reasoning on the face is plausible, how about the papers you signed?
How do you explain to the kids that rules are for other people?
And getting the two bedroom and not letting the kids sleep in the studio WOULD allow you to have enough towels, it would afford an additional bathroom and it would allow you to use your points within the rules.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?
How do you explain to the kids that rules are for other people?
And getting the two bedroom and not letting the kids sleep in the studio WOULD allow you to have enough towels, it would afford an additional bathroom and it would allow you to use your points within the rules.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx, pretty sick, huh?
Pluto4President
DIS Veteran ºoº DVC 4ME
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2000
Unfortunately, when points are rented out, it is really unknown what their final use would be for. Personally, I plan never to rent my points. Didn't buy for that reason.
I could see 5 people in a 1 b/r if one were an under say 3, but 6, that is blatant. That would also be the group to end up complaining about service and/or amenities.
Oh well, another good debate for the boards!
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I could see 5 people in a 1 b/r if one were an under say 3, but 6, that is blatant. That would also be the group to end up complaining about service and/or amenities.
Oh well, another good debate for the boards!
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"Walt Disney World... been there, done that, GOING BACK!"
Lisa F
is a very wise woman
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2000
I know that Rich is going to jump all over the post by zurgswife so before I become a "me too" I figured I'd say my peace.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>1. From the first time that CR knowingly moved our family of 6 into a studio from the Fort Wilderness cabins; I haven't ever given a second thought about placing all of us in a one bedroom for another year. Even our sales agent at this time stated that we'd only need to rent a one bedroom for a few more years. Until the last month of course I never considered it to be a point of contention.
2. It has been clearly stated by other threads that a studio is only for a max of five. Why then did CR place a family of six in studio stating that we would fit because everyone was so young? Disney clearly didn't have a problem.
[/quote]
Since your youngest is only 4 now I assume that the first time you stayed in DVC your youngest was 3 or younger. Since all occupancy limits are always listed as "4 plus a child under 3" or, in the case of a studio plus "5 plus a child under 3" I am assuming that you told MS that you had a child under 3 (I always thought of "toddler" to mean in the age 2 range) and 5 other people, so they put you in an appropriate unit size. This doesn't mean that you can put 6 in any unit you want, this meant that as long as one of your children is under 3, your family is counted as "5 plus a child under 3".
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
3. When I make ressies I state I have 3 young children and a toddler. No one has questioned me up to now....Maybe I've been lucky. Or haven't considered my baby under three a person. Since they don't make her pay to get into the park, maybe they didn't count her in the room. When we check in we don't make any secret of the amount of people in the room.
[/quote]
So when are you going to start telling people at the gate that you require 4 childs tickets instead of 3? When your oldest turns 10? When your oldest turns 10 will you still be buying children's admission for him because when you make your reservations you say you have 4 children? I personally don't buy the argument that when your oldest turns 10 that something magical will happen within your family to make it "safe" for your kids to stay in the second bedroom of a two bedroom. Don't your children have their own bedrooms at home? Do you find it impossible to keep track of them if they don't sleep in the livingroom at home?
If you wanted to follow the rules and having them be "so far away" in the next room was really a concern, bring a baby monitor. But you obviously don't want to follow the rules because, by your own admission, you don't pay for your youngest to enter the park even though she is in the "3-9" range.
I was never one to go for "slippery slope" type arguments. I thought people were being ridiculous or using hyperbole for effect when they were saying things like "well you put 5 in a 1br, how about 6? how about 7? how about 8?" I thought "oh surely people don't do that sort of thing. It's a completely hypothetical argument." I guess I was wrong.
If you're going to break the rules, it's your business... you are the one who has to live with yourself and whatever consequences there are. Please don't flaunt it in the face of those of us who pay for admission for our children because the rules say so or use the extra points for a 2br to abide by DVC's occupancy limits.
Lisa
"You employ stone, wood, and concrete, and with these materials you build house and palaces. That is construction. Ingenuity is at work. But suddenly, you touch my heart, you do me good. I am happy and I say 'This is beautiful.' That is architecture. Art enters in."
-Le Corbusier
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>1. From the first time that CR knowingly moved our family of 6 into a studio from the Fort Wilderness cabins; I haven't ever given a second thought about placing all of us in a one bedroom for another year. Even our sales agent at this time stated that we'd only need to rent a one bedroom for a few more years. Until the last month of course I never considered it to be a point of contention.
2. It has been clearly stated by other threads that a studio is only for a max of five. Why then did CR place a family of six in studio stating that we would fit because everyone was so young? Disney clearly didn't have a problem.
[/quote]
Since your youngest is only 4 now I assume that the first time you stayed in DVC your youngest was 3 or younger. Since all occupancy limits are always listed as "4 plus a child under 3" or, in the case of a studio plus "5 plus a child under 3" I am assuming that you told MS that you had a child under 3 (I always thought of "toddler" to mean in the age 2 range) and 5 other people, so they put you in an appropriate unit size. This doesn't mean that you can put 6 in any unit you want, this meant that as long as one of your children is under 3, your family is counted as "5 plus a child under 3".
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
3. When I make ressies I state I have 3 young children and a toddler. No one has questioned me up to now....Maybe I've been lucky. Or haven't considered my baby under three a person. Since they don't make her pay to get into the park, maybe they didn't count her in the room. When we check in we don't make any secret of the amount of people in the room.
[/quote]
So when are you going to start telling people at the gate that you require 4 childs tickets instead of 3? When your oldest turns 10? When your oldest turns 10 will you still be buying children's admission for him because when you make your reservations you say you have 4 children? I personally don't buy the argument that when your oldest turns 10 that something magical will happen within your family to make it "safe" for your kids to stay in the second bedroom of a two bedroom. Don't your children have their own bedrooms at home? Do you find it impossible to keep track of them if they don't sleep in the livingroom at home?
If you wanted to follow the rules and having them be "so far away" in the next room was really a concern, bring a baby monitor. But you obviously don't want to follow the rules because, by your own admission, you don't pay for your youngest to enter the park even though she is in the "3-9" range.
I was never one to go for "slippery slope" type arguments. I thought people were being ridiculous or using hyperbole for effect when they were saying things like "well you put 5 in a 1br, how about 6? how about 7? how about 8?" I thought "oh surely people don't do that sort of thing. It's a completely hypothetical argument." I guess I was wrong.
If you're going to break the rules, it's your business... you are the one who has to live with yourself and whatever consequences there are. Please don't flaunt it in the face of those of us who pay for admission for our children because the rules say so or use the extra points for a 2br to abide by DVC's occupancy limits.
Lisa
"You employ stone, wood, and concrete, and with these materials you build house and palaces. That is construction. Ingenuity is at work. But suddenly, you touch my heart, you do me good. I am happy and I say 'This is beautiful.' That is architecture. Art enters in."
-Le Corbusier
Two things kind of tie together here. I have several concerns about people renting out points to total strangers via the Internet or classified ads. There is really no one holding them accountable or even ensuring they know the "rules" (technically the member is to have them sign something to that effect but I doubt this enforced). Therefore, I'm not suprised to hear 6 in a one-bedroom or for that matter 20 in a Grand Villa. The second is that by being generous and saying an additional child under 3 would be allowed in each unit the floodgates were opened to one extra in a unit....which once that's the norm will lead to 2 extra in a unit (not necessarily with any being under age 3...or age 18 for that matter) being what these "special" people feel entitled to. DVC has indicated they are aware of both of these concerns. I don't think there is much they can do about the rentals but if they choose they can certainly enforce the room policies. Every piece of paper and on-line description of the rooms clearly states how many are allowed in each unit. I would not be surprised to see this addressed within the next year or so.
I agree that sometimes I wish there were 2 beds in the master bedroom. But there aren't and there never were. That is the type of accomodation I agreed to buy and it's not Disney trying to make money....it is Disney trying to develop a luxury vacation experience not a super large hotel room.
For those who feel their extra people/children in a unit don't matter...take a look at the posts about problems with noise sometimes being generated by having 5-6 in a unit next door when it was built for 4. If you spread out 4-6 children in a two bedroom you have your own self-contained "home". If you have 4 children in a studio they can't help but make noise that goes right into the one-bedroom next door (and the unit above and below as well).
The safety question. 1) You knew what you were buying. 2) Do you all sleep in one room at home?
[This message was edited by PamOKW on 02-04-01 at 10:09 AM.]
I agree that sometimes I wish there were 2 beds in the master bedroom. But there aren't and there never were. That is the type of accomodation I agreed to buy and it's not Disney trying to make money....it is Disney trying to develop a luxury vacation experience not a super large hotel room.
For those who feel their extra people/children in a unit don't matter...take a look at the posts about problems with noise sometimes being generated by having 5-6 in a unit next door when it was built for 4. If you spread out 4-6 children in a two bedroom you have your own self-contained "home". If you have 4 children in a studio they can't help but make noise that goes right into the one-bedroom next door (and the unit above and below as well).
The safety question. 1) You knew what you were buying. 2) Do you all sleep in one room at home?
[This message was edited by PamOKW on 02-04-01 at 10:09 AM.]
Let's not get personal with Zurgswife. She has actually done us a favor by pointing out that this does go on and some people see no problem with it. It is DVC that must address the issue and members who want to express their displeasure should do so with DVC, not going head to head with folks breaking the rules. We can't force them to do as the rules say....DVC can.
In these past discussions Rich and I have taken heat for suggesting that 5 in a unit will quickly becomes 6 in a unit. Maybe we aren't so wrong. I completely understand leaving DVC "wiggle room" for special circumstances. However, establishing 6 in a studio as "okay" every time is a very poor idea.
FYI <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>My four children are ages 4,6,7,8. [/quote]
That's probably what Lisa "misread". I guess the 3 year old must have a birthday real soon.
In these past discussions Rich and I have taken heat for suggesting that 5 in a unit will quickly becomes 6 in a unit. Maybe we aren't so wrong. I completely understand leaving DVC "wiggle room" for special circumstances. However, establishing 6 in a studio as "okay" every time is a very poor idea.
FYI <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>My four children are ages 4,6,7,8. [/quote]
That's probably what Lisa "misread". I guess the 3 year old must have a birthday real soon.
Lisa F
is a very wise woman
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2000
Go back and check your original post... you wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
My four children are ages 4,6,7,8.
[/quote]
If your youngest is under 3 and not 4 as you said in your previous post then what I said was based on a misunderstanding.
If the comment about "personal attacks" was aimed at me, I just want to put the disclaimer that what I wrote was NOT a personal attack. I have no idea what kind of person zurgswife is in reality and would never pretend to know. All I did was post based on the facts that she posted and based on the facts she posted she is breaking the rules. That's why I phrased my concerns as questions and not "I bet you're one of THOSE people who does all that, and pulls the wings off of flies also!" ;-)
Once your "under 3 year old" becomes an "over 3 year old" they count as a "real" person and you will be over the occupancy limits for a 1BR by 2 people instead of 1. Maybe putting 5 in a 1BR is still fuzzy territory but 6 should be an outright no-no.
Lisa
"You employ stone, wood, and concrete, and with these materials you build house and palaces. That is construction. Ingenuity is at work. But suddenly, you touch my heart, you do me good. I am happy and I say 'This is beautiful.' That is architecture. Art enters in."
-Le Corbusier
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
My four children are ages 4,6,7,8.
[/quote]
If your youngest is under 3 and not 4 as you said in your previous post then what I said was based on a misunderstanding.
If the comment about "personal attacks" was aimed at me, I just want to put the disclaimer that what I wrote was NOT a personal attack. I have no idea what kind of person zurgswife is in reality and would never pretend to know. All I did was post based on the facts that she posted and based on the facts she posted she is breaking the rules. That's why I phrased my concerns as questions and not "I bet you're one of THOSE people who does all that, and pulls the wings off of flies also!" ;-)
Once your "under 3 year old" becomes an "over 3 year old" they count as a "real" person and you will be over the occupancy limits for a 1BR by 2 people instead of 1. Maybe putting 5 in a 1BR is still fuzzy territory but 6 should be an outright no-no.
Lisa
"You employ stone, wood, and concrete, and with these materials you build house and palaces. That is construction. Ingenuity is at work. But suddenly, you touch my heart, you do me good. I am happy and I say 'This is beautiful.' That is architecture. Art enters in."
-Le Corbusier
Lisa not aimed at you at all. I've just seen the "path" these threads usually take (end up on the Debate Board) most times. (We've already heard the, "Hey I bet you've gone over the speed limit" arguement which always comes up.) I feel your anger and concern. I'm just suggesting that you express yourself to DVC as well where it might have some result. Arguing with folks who feel they are in the right on this issue because of what they've been able to do in the past gets no where except for them citing personal attack before long.
minnie mouse
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Nov 4, 1999
I think if people have a problem with the abuse with the "legal" limits I think they should be addressing the DVC board.
When the reservations are made and Disney is aware of the number of people in the room and they are ok with it, and when they ckeck into the room and once again they see the number of people staying in that room and they are ok with it, hey they make the rules so they can break the rules. I'm sure it's not like the guess are sneaking people in the back door or though a window or in a large suitcase...
I have only four people in my family so I guess I will never be breaking the rules. And If I ever take family or friends with I would want them to have the own room. After all I am on vacation and I want to be comfortable.
I guess I just feeling kinda sorry for the people being attacked about "breaking" the occupancy limit when Disney is clearly allowing it. So I think if this is such a sore subject I think the blame should be put on the people not enforcing the limits.
When the reservations are made and Disney is aware of the number of people in the room and they are ok with it, and when they ckeck into the room and once again they see the number of people staying in that room and they are ok with it, hey they make the rules so they can break the rules. I'm sure it's not like the guess are sneaking people in the back door or though a window or in a large suitcase...
I have only four people in my family so I guess I will never be breaking the rules. And If I ever take family or friends with I would want them to have the own room. After all I am on vacation and I want to be comfortable.
I guess I just feeling kinda sorry for the people being attacked about "breaking" the occupancy limit when Disney is clearly allowing it. So I think if this is such a sore subject I think the blame should be put on the people not enforcing the limits.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>When the reservations are made and Disney is aware of the number of people in the room and they are ok with it, and when they ckeck into the room and once again they see the number of people staying in that room and they are ok with it, [/quote]
In many cases I don't believe it is done in the way you suggest. A reservation is made and someone checks in. They don't do a head count to see who is in the group. If the group doesn't feel the need to follow the established limits they also generally don't feel the need to tell anyone what they are doing. I'm not talking so much about the family with very small children (it's DVC's flexibility with this group that is creating a potential problem) but I'm talking about the family with an 11 and 13 year old who bring along one or two guests for each child into a one bedroom or studio or the group of adults who bring 6 into a studio or who decide that they don't really need a GV for 12 when they can fit into a 2 bedroom. These are the abusive situations that need to be monitored and addressed.
In many cases I don't believe it is done in the way you suggest. A reservation is made and someone checks in. They don't do a head count to see who is in the group. If the group doesn't feel the need to follow the established limits they also generally don't feel the need to tell anyone what they are doing. I'm not talking so much about the family with very small children (it's DVC's flexibility with this group that is creating a potential problem) but I'm talking about the family with an 11 and 13 year old who bring along one or two guests for each child into a one bedroom or studio or the group of adults who bring 6 into a studio or who decide that they don't really need a GV for 12 when they can fit into a 2 bedroom. These are the abusive situations that need to be monitored and addressed.
Disney in general and DVC specifically has made it clear that they do indeed have some flexibility in allowing more than stated occupancy limits at times. It is one of the ways Disney "creates magic". The problem arises, when those individuals choose to come and flaunt or brag about their experience in forums like this one. The result is that others read into this that "5 is OK in a 1BR" ....or now that "6 is OK". We may actually do ourselves a disservice by reporting these exceptions, since there are many of us who choose to read, believe and adhere to the stated rules, guidelines and contractual agreements we have made.
TnRobin
The prodical child
- Joined
- Aug 18, 1998
Just a friendly reminder. 
Please keep remarks concerning other peoples integrity out of this discussion. The discussion is on the occupancy limits not on speed limits or when a child should actually pay for a ticket. As we know we all have strong opinions on how the occupancy issue should be handled by DVC. Let's respect each others right to have thier own opinions.
Disney Vacation Club Board Co-Moderator
DVC and Cruise Chat Hostess
Cruise Board List Mistress
<font size=4 color=blue font face="Comic Sans MS">Robin
Please keep remarks concerning other peoples integrity out of this discussion. The discussion is on the occupancy limits not on speed limits or when a child should actually pay for a ticket. As we know we all have strong opinions on how the occupancy issue should be handled by DVC. Let's respect each others right to have thier own opinions.
Disney Vacation Club Board Co-Moderator
DVC and Cruise Chat Hostess
Cruise Board List Mistress
<font size=4 color=blue font face="Comic Sans MS">Robin
JudithM
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 5, 1999
A few comments as I read through this thread ...
*at OKW we have talked to DVC cast members who said owners do just as much damage dollarwise as is done by renters; it is easy to want to blame only the renters, but the facts do not support that argument;
*wet carpet in a unit does not mean the previous guests (owners or renters) messed up or trashed anything; the carpet is sometimes still wet when we check in at OKW, my first concern was that since we were on the ground floor that maybe there was a leak underneath - not the case - I asked a housekeeping supervisor about it & was told housekeeping basically shampoos the carpet between every guest;
*also, regardless of how clean we keep the unit during our stay, we members expect a certain level of show quality/standards when we check in each time; therefore housekeeping does a thorough job
*at OKW we have talked to DVC cast members who said owners do just as much damage dollarwise as is done by renters; it is easy to want to blame only the renters, but the facts do not support that argument;
*wet carpet in a unit does not mean the previous guests (owners or renters) messed up or trashed anything; the carpet is sometimes still wet when we check in at OKW, my first concern was that since we were on the ground floor that maybe there was a leak underneath - not the case - I asked a housekeeping supervisor about it & was told housekeeping basically shampoos the carpet between every guest;
*also, regardless of how clean we keep the unit during our stay, we members expect a certain level of show quality/standards when we check in each time; therefore housekeeping does a thorough job
I think 6 in a one bedroom or studio is too much and is a clear violation of the rules and should not be tolerated.
I dont think that you and your family should be booted out, but should be charged extra for more than five people, irregardless of age, and those funds should be pooled to lower our annual dues.
It amazes me that someone would be so happy to advertise their ignorance of we all have agreed to follow.
I encourage members to aquire the appropriate accomodations and if you are going to brag about breaking the rules, maybe Hillary will give you a pardon when she leaves office in 12 years!
Feel free to send me an email
If you need help with your Disney problem click here:Calbay's 12 Steps of Disneyholics Anonymouse
My recent trip to the Disneyland Resort
Calbay's Holiday 2000 Disneyland Trip Report
I dont think that you and your family should be booted out, but should be charged extra for more than five people, irregardless of age, and those funds should be pooled to lower our annual dues.
It amazes me that someone would be so happy to advertise their ignorance of we all have agreed to follow.
I encourage members to aquire the appropriate accomodations and if you are going to brag about breaking the rules, maybe Hillary will give you a pardon when she leaves office in 12 years!
Feel free to send me an email
If you need help with your Disney problem click here:Calbay's 12 Steps of Disneyholics Anonymouse
My recent trip to the Disneyland Resort
Calbay's Holiday 2000 Disneyland Trip Report
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