7 Month window is a scam

[midaroco]

Maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying. I read several things from you suggesting that one was OK relying on the sales person only and holding that salesperson to an unrealistic standard. The OP was simply wrong in their assessment of the situation. I think we all can sympathize when one doesn't get something they wanted but that's different than someone else being at fault.

Perhaps you ought to go back and re-read them, then.

You harshly criticize the OP for not understanding what they entered into, yet you absolve the sales team of any fault?

How was I holding the sales individual to an unrealistic standard? By thinking they ought tell the truth and not mislead?

 

[Dean]

Perhaps you ought to go back and re-read them, then.

I did.

You harshly criticize the OP for not understanding what they entered into, yet you absolve the sales team of any fault?

Not absolve, just a dose of reality and a healthy helping of personal responsibility. I didn't say it was OK, only that it's the way it is. Generally with DVC it's more about misunderstanding or poor knowledge of the system itself than purposeful misleading, that's not the case for many other timeshares. I also reread my post, I don't think I addressed the OP at all other than in the post you just quoted but it was factual that labeling DVC's setup as a scam is incorrect. I did make several statements suggesting that people need to take personal responsibility and understand what they're getting into. If that's harsh, so be it.

How was I holding the sales individual to an unrealistic standard? By thinking they ought tell the truth and not mislead?

Yes because it's not going to happen, it's unrealistic.

 

[crisi]

I own at Bay Lake.

Additionally, I am well aware of what "subject to availability" means, thanks!

I do, however, have friends who own at SSR and they were given the same info as the OP and many others - "subject to availability" is in the contract due to "weeks like Christmas and New Years that are extremely busy and you will be less likely to book those outside your home resort".

Additionally, not everyone will search out forums such as this.

So, I guess we all should be ok knowing that the sales tactics of DVC reps are shady, at best?!

While I agree that it is, as I have said several times, ultimately the buyers responsibility to understand what they are buying or agreeing to - that should not absolve the seller of the responsibility to be honest.

We should all be skeptical consumers. The word of a salesperson that he will not put in writing is worth the paper he writes it on. Unfortunately, too many people think that Disney is somehow different. They hear what they want to hear. Often overlooking common sense. Common sense should tell you that with the many many rooms within the DVC system, its probably more difficult to get a small resort as a non owner. That with a timeshare, the system is sold to near capacity, so looking for something in high demand, like HHI in the Summer, is going to be highly competitive at seven months. When the salesperson says you something, engage your critical thinking skills.

The other terrible truth - some of the DVC Guides really have very little insight into how the system works in practice. They don't know what's hard to book and what isn't.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

it's not a scam. It's just the way the system works. If they are selling contracts by saying "You can book anywhere you want at 7 months for any time of the year!!" then yes it's misleading. But just because the opportunity is there at 7 months doesn't mean that exactly what you want is going to be available. Sorry you aren't getting what you wanted.

 

[Tunseeker1]

I bought at Poly. Booked for Sept. My work schedule shifted and I need to rebook for mid-Oct, now inside the 7 month window.

Dang!

Only found two of six days avail when I started looking (and one of those, the last day of trip, was still outside the 7 month window - which is why it was available for me to book).

Checked availability tool like 10X/day.

Found a third day in the middle. A fourth day that tied four days together. Fifth day.... This morning, sixth and last day.

I wouldn't expect that at an EPCOT resort during F&W. But. You can work the 7 month booking window.

Epcot is an Epcot resort (Kinda...)

 

[Missyrose]

So, I guess we all should be ok knowing that the sales tactics of DVC reps are shady, at best?!

While I agree that it is, as I have said several times, ultimately the buyers responsibility to understand what they are buying or agreeing to - that should not absolve the seller of the responsibility to be honest.

If people will spend thousands of dollars to buy a timeshare upfront and commit to spending hundreds of thousands of additional dollars on MFs and future trips without doing a cursory Google search? I'm not going to feel very badly when they get taken by less-than-honest salespeople. When the DVC salesperson says "you'll have ample opportunity to stay at all these wonderful resorts," they tend to leave out "in early February" or "for three-night stays" or "in more expensive one-bedroom villas." So their statement "you'll have ample opportunity to stay at all these wonderful resorts," isn't a lie, it's just not the complete truth.

And I'm sorry, we're talking about grownups spending thousands of their hard-earned dollars. So, yeah, I put the responsibility for knowing truth from fiction on the buyer. And even if they don't know the truth while sitting in that sales pitch, they have 10 days to do research and the chance to rescind.

 

[midaroco]

If people will spend thousands of dollars to buy a timeshare upfront and commit to spending hundreds of thousands of additional dollars on MFs and future trips without doing a cursory Google search? I'm not going to feel very badly when they get taken by less-than-honest salespeople. When the DVC salesperson says "you'll have ample opportunity to stay at all these wonderful resorts," they tend to leave out "in early February" or "for three-night stays" or "in more expensive one-bedroom villas." So their statement "you'll have ample opportunity to stay at all these wonderful resorts," isn't a lie, it's just not the complete truth.

And I'm sorry, we're talking about grownups spending thousands of their hard-earned dollars. So, yeah, I put the responsibility for knowing truth from fiction on the buyer. And even if they don't know the truth while sitting in that sales pitch, they have 10 days to do research and the chance to rescind.

The oneness is 50/50. The price of the item cannot and should not absolve the seller of any and all responsibility.

 

[Missyrose]

The oneness is 50/50. The price of the item cannot and should not absolve the seller of any and all responsibility.

But even if the salesperson is irresponsible, the salesperson isn't the one paying for it for the next three, four or five decades. No one is saying it's ethical or that it isn't slimy. What many of us are saying is that it's up to the person who's buying to protect themselves. Because they're the only ones who will suffer when things turn out very differently than they originally thought. Does it suck for them? Yep. But is the seven-month window a scam? Nope. There's a system you're buying into and if you can't be bothered to learn everything you can before buying in, you can't really blame it on the system.

 

[tasha99]

I think it's slimy, but it's what salespeople do. It's puffing.

 

[suebeelin]

I'm learning all about how stressful the 7mo window is while my SIL scrambles to get rooms for her family trip (3 adults kids with 2-3kids each) plus parents.

They started at the 9mo mark trying to book their sold out home resorts during jersey week (BCV and BWV--,food n wine anyone?)

Today? 7 mo mark on the dot. She was on the phone and computer for 2hrs trying to secure a grand villa for 3 days at a non home resort (they have one out of 4 needed days at their home resort... She's decided it's almost impossible for her Waitlist of the other 3 days coming through...)

Now, she's waiting on April 6 to get 2 studios for 2 nights (nov 6-8). Her resorts were already 100% booked at the 9 mo mark. Now we are closing in on the 7mo mark. Not one resort has a 2 night availability in a row from nov 6-8. Not one.

Scam? No. It's the system. You are strategizing and competing against everyone else at 7mo....

 

[skier_pete]

Now, she's waiting on April 6 to get 2 studios for 2 nights (nov 6-8). Her resorts were already 100% booked at the 9 mo mark. Now we are closing in on the 7mo mark. Not one resort has a 2 night availability in a row from nov 6-8. Not one..

I am sorry that your sister is having the issues she is having. It is amazing that nothing is available anywhere. I did a quick look at SSR and yes Nov 6th is sold out. The is probably her best bet, though a room may open up there.

That said, I've owned for just over a year, and I was aware before I even purchased of the high popularity of certain times of year, and I was aware of the issues with booking at those times of year very quickly. If you choose to travel on a weekend such as one of the marathons, or early december, you better get your home resort booked at close to the 11-month mark. And espeically if you own at BWV and BCV.

The seven-month mark you can probably get a studio at multiple resorts 300 days a year, and get a studios SOMEWHERE about 350 days a year. Much of the year you can pretty much have your pick of resorts. We just booked late-August/early-September, and we could've stayed at any resort on property we wanted. Even at times in October/November/December there still are a lot of opportunities to choose from multiple resorts, and not necessarily just OKW, SSR and AKV.

Really the only folks I feel sorry for are those people that bought at VGF! That resort books up so fast you can't get a studio right at the 11-month mark. They're paying more money than anyone did for the buy-in, and they are stuck with not being able to get into their home resort, and because of that for those select days not being able to get into anywhere. Gotta think there's a lot of PISSED OFF customers coming out of VGF. (My thoughts with why the Poly went with only studios.)

 

[Dean]

I'm learning all about how stressful the 7mo window is while my SIL scrambles to get rooms for her family trip (3 adults kids with 2-3kids each) plus parents.

They started at the 9mo mark trying to book their sold out home resorts during jersey week (BCV and BWV--,food n wine anyone?)

Today? 7 mo mark on the dot. She was on the phone and computer for 2hrs trying to secure a grand villa for 3 days at a non home resort (they have one out of 4 needed days at their home resort... She's decided it's almost impossible for her Waitlist of the other 3 days coming through...)

Now, she's waiting on April 6 to get 2 studios for 2 nights (nov 6-8). Her resorts were already 100% booked at the 9 mo mark. Now we are closing in on the 7mo mark. Not one resort has a 2 night availability in a row from nov 6-8. Not one.

Scam? No. It's the system. You are strategizing and competing against everyone else at 7mo....

I'm using your post to make a point, I hope she gets what she wants but it does raise an issue worth addressing. IMO this type of stress is potentially avoidable or at least can be reduced significantly. It's really all about realistic expectations on the initial buy in for that member. One who researched well up front would know that getting some unit types, certain resorts in general and some timeframes would likely not be likely to come together. I'd say that's pretty much the case for 3 BR in general certain times of the year. In this specific situation the best chance of success is for them to wait list the next 2 days separately then add the last day once they match one of them. Then they should stalk the website also.

Really the only folks I feel sorry for are those people that bought at VGF! That resort books up so fast you can't get a studio right at the 11-month mark. They're paying more money than anyone did for the buy-in, and they are stuck with not being able to get into their home resort, and because of that for those select days not being able to get into anywhere. Gotta think there's a lot of PISSED OFF customers coming out of VGF. (My thoughts with why the Poly went with only studios.)

There are other things as difficult to get as VGF (AKV concierge, BWV 3 BR, BCV dedicated 2 BR would be close) but it was predictable that owners there would have some trouble even 11 months out at opening. This is why I feel most who buy there should focus on fixed weeks.

 

[goofy4tink]

I guess I'm in the minority then. Our salesperson did tell us that it can be difficult booking some resorts at the 7 month window, at various times of year. We'rre lucky...we bought at BWV and BLT.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I think there are a lot of people that buy into certain DVC resorts due to the lower point cost. They buy at, say OKW, but don't want to stay there. So, when they try to book BWV in Oct, they are upset....it's a highly desired time to stay at the Epcot resorts, and they find they are shut out...and they get upset.
A scam? No, hardly. Will some be disappointed? Yep. I highly doubt that a DVC 'guide' will tell them that if they buy at SSR, they probably won't be able to stay at BWV in Oct! Salespeople seldom tell you about any downsides...it's the nature of the game.

 

[CarolMN]

........(snip)........Now, she's waiting on April 6 to get 2 studios for 2 nights (nov 6-8). Her resorts were already 100% booked at the 9 mo mark. Now we are closing in on the 7mo mark. Not one resort has a 2 night availability in a row from nov 6-8. Not one.....

In addition to being part of Jersey week, 11/6 & 7 is Disney's Wine & Dine Half Marathon Weekend. That's a VERY POPULAR event and the reason even SSR isn't available. According to drushba, a DIS poster who tracks historical DVC availability, the Friday of that race weekend sells out at about the same pace as NYE.

Hope it works out for her.

 

[skier_pete]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I think there are a lot of people that buy into certain DVC resorts due to the lower point cost. They buy at, say OKW, but don't want to stay there. So, when they try to book BWV in Oct, they are upset....it's a highly desired time to stay at the Epcot resorts, and they find they are shut out...and they get upset.

That's a pretty sturdy limb you are on. I feel no pity for those people.I bought a cheaper resort, and I understand the implications mean I won't always get to upgrade depending on the time of year. If you buy at SSR and think you'll be staying at VGF every time, then your just fooling yourself.

 

[epcotized]

I think the OP might have used the word scam more out of frustration than the dictionary definition of the word. When most people 1st bought DVC the 7 month window was promoted as a viable option. I was unaware that there were statistics about which resorts and which views would least likely be available. Even if there were, it used to be easier to find rooms that you wanted. So the change can be frustrating. This is the 1st year I have had difficulty at the 7 month (and the 11 month minus 3 days) window for the same time of year as the past 5 years before. Also, checking earlier this morning at the 7 month point for fun, there were no studios available for 6 consecutive nights (even SSR and AK).

The reason we buy DVC is not because we love the technicalities. There have been more units sold and it's busier there so we either have to adjust by trying to be a little more OCD at the booking windows or consider whether there is any alternative.

 

[CarolMN]

....(snip)........ There have been more units sold and it's busier there so we either have to adjust by trying to be a little more OCD at the booking windows or consider whether there is any alternative.

In a large number of cases, the alternative is a more expensive booking category or a different view than the member prefers. For example, even though the studios are may be gone for 11/6-11/8, the last time I checked, there was availability for 11/6 & 11/7 in a 1 bedroom at several of the WDW resorts.

 

[River Country]

Very popular weekend and studios will be the first to go i secured that weekend at my home resort of SSR. I was able to get the rest of the week at OKW at 7m in a 2 studios but i may switch to spend the weekend in a 2 BR in OKW i have enough points for it and those 2br's are huge. i was on the phone with MS today and the rep stated that the availability was Excellent. So i will give it a shot and it will open up 2 studios in SSR i think over the next week that weekend is going to see a lot of fluctuation in availability in the larger resorts but then again who knows

 

[Sandisw]

The thing with DVC is that anything is possible at 7 months, even hard to get reservations, so if a salesperson says "Yes, you can book any other resort at 7 months", it is an accurate statement. Granted, everything is subject to availability, and that, for me, is the piece that the buyer should understand when buying into a points based timeshare. Frustration happens, that is for sure, when one tries, as OP did, to get something and can't, but as many have pointed out, its about how much information you seek on your own in terms of the product before purchase.

 

[Dean]

The thing with DVC is that anything is possible at 7 months, even hard to get reservations, so if a salesperson says "Yes, you can book any other resort at 7 months", it is an accurate statement. Granted, everything is subject to availability, and that, for me, is the piece that the buyer should understand when buying into a points based timeshare. Frustration happens, that is for sure, when one tries, as OP did, to get something and can't, but as many have pointed out, its about how much information you seek on your own in terms of the product before purchase.

I think one of the issues, one I alluded to earlier, is that some of the guides's aren't that knowledgeable of how the system actually works in practice. Their knowledge is more based on the setup and theoretical usage. And since DVC doesn't do update tours, they don't get that much feedback of issues from the members. I'm sure some are members and a portion of them truly know but there are those that don't.