Am I just being a jerk here?

[pumpkinboy]

OK, so maybe this belongs on the debate board, and this isn't about visiting WDW, but you folks are the only large community of placard users I know, so here goes:

Palm Sunday services at our church and we arrive about 10 mins before marching begins and all, and there is someone else in the only HC parking spot. No placard, no plate. So the nearest alternate parking is a half block away and it's drizzling, so I decide to block in whomever is parked there, figuring that we can chat after services and I can apologize if necessary. We wheel DS's wheelchair in with a minimum of rain getting on him.

After church, we hear a honking in the parking lot; we linger in church a while. A friend who also has a wheelchair-bound child (hers is now an adult) tells me that "Olga" has been looking furiously for the folks who blocked her in: "how dare they...", she's fuming. Well, tho "Olga" is in her 70s, she also plays tennis every day, and can run circles around most normal adults, so here is the dilemma:

I am not at all sorry I blocked her in and that she was angry about it. I am actually surpised that she is not simply ashamed of having taken the only HC spot. And I plan to block her in every time she parks there.

Not very Christian of me, is it?

 

[pumpkinboy]

Just a follow up note: in this week's Church bulletin was the following note to parishoners:

On Sundays, as on every day of the week, the parking places in front of the Counseling Center designated for handicap parking should be reserved for those of our friends who require special accommodations. It's not only the law, it's a part of being welcoming to all people.

Not sure if I have seen that note before. Hmmmm, I didn't say anything to anyone.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I have the local police non-emergency number programmed into my cell phone. If I go someplace and there is a vehicle in the handicap parking space which does not have a plate ot placard I will call in the information. I have met a few police who say they enjoy the opportunity to give out the $250 tickets to people who misuse the handicap spaces.

I would suggest that if this happens again you call the police department.

 

[bigiainw]

I'm with you on this one! It gets me so mad when I see this practice. It's absolutley epidemic in the UK! It makes my blood boil! I feel better now!

 

[Michigan]

As long as she keeps doing it keep blocking her in. I would even take longer to leave every week. She will get tired of waiting and stop because she can't call the police she is illegally parked.

 

[SueM in MN]

I'm with you on it too. If Olga had a need for the spot, she should have a handicapped parking permit.
The notice that the church printed is interesting, although it would have been better if they had changed....

handicap parking should be reserved for those of our friends who require special accommodations.

to "handicapped parking must be reserved for those of our friends who have a valid State-issued handicapped parking permit." I'm sure "Olga" either didn't bother to notice it was a handicapped parking spot or she felt she did "require special accomidations" (after all if she's 70, she probably thinks she does - sort of like a senior discount).

This is an especially touchy subject for me because I was injured because of slipping during the winter when someone was parked in the handicapped spot at daycare. There were several parents who felt like it was OK for them to park in the 2 handicapped spots because they were "just running in for a few minutes". The daycare staff posted notices, talked to people, etc, but those few parents thought what they were doing was just fine. Calling the police didn't work because the people were gone by the time the police got there.
I tried parking them in, but they usually managed to find another way out as other cars moved. I tried waiting for them to leave, but I didn't have the time to wait and they didn't seem to "get" it that I had a legitimate need for that spot and they didn't.
One day, when it was really icy - someone was parked in the handicapped spot and I parked at a farther away one which required me to stand on the curb as I got DD out of our van and put her in her wheelchair. It was icy and I slipped. I managed to "drop" DD back in the van seat, so she was not hurt, but I hit my front teeth on the door jamb, breaking both front upper teeth off. Courtesy of that inconsiderate parker, I became the proud owner of one veneered and one capped front tooth.
So, I feel anyone who parks in a handicapped spot without a permit deserves whatever they get. And, some people require a $250 ticket to learn a lesson. Unfortunately, "Olga" probably has a doctor who will fill out the paperwork for her so she can get her own handicapped permit.

 

[JudithM]

I don't think I would have blocked in another vehicle if for nothing else safety reasons. You might have chosen to drop off your son with his wheelchair & another person in your family & then parked somewhere else. What Olga did was wrong, but as the saying goes "two wrongs don't make a right." I would have made sure after church to be really sweet to her (almost sickening) & let her know (maybe in front of many others) that what she did was wrong.

However, I would have called the local police as Cheshire Figment suggested. I have a friend who is a l\ocal policeman, & he, too, likes to issue tickets for vehicles that park in a handicapped parking space without any tag.

 

[Earstou]

If this happened to me at church, I would either ask the minister to have a private chat with "Olga" or bring it to the church office's attention and request that "Olga" be informed that it's not legal to park there (nor very Christian)!
Or maybe cut out the notice in the bulletin and mail it to her, with a copy of your state's laws about handicapped parking.
Then, if that doesn't work...call the police!!

 

[Michigan]

FYI the police won't ticket a car in a church parking lot in Michigan because it's private property. My church is a large church with about 100 handicap parking spots all around the church. While that sounds like a lot they still need more because there are 4 services with only 15 minutes between. Someone walks around the parking lot and leaves signs on the cars that are parked without a pass or plate.

 

[dclfun]

I would've blocked in that van too and *have* blocked someone in before and waited behind their vehicle, in my chair, until the police arrived. The guy came back out to his car and literally begged me to move, said he was diabetic and needed to eat immediately ( I told him he could certainly run in the store and grab a bite to eat or I'd send my son in to purchase him a snack), cursed and swore at me, claimed I didn't have a lift van ( I'm in a power wheelchair!), etc. The police finally arrived and gave not only a ticket to this man but to four other vehicles illegally parked in the area! Meanwhile I missed a dental appointment I was supposed to bring my son to- not nearly as horrifying as Sue's story! I figure a $250.00 lesson was needed as this person was also "just going in for a minute"- turned out to be an expensive minute for him. While I'd like to think people have common courtesy and common sense, unfortunately some don't and I have no problem being their teacher! ---Kathy

 

[phorsenuf]

Originally posted by Cheshire Figment
I have the local police non-emergency number programmed into my cell phone. If I go someplace and there is a vehicle in the handicap parking space which does not have a plate ot placard I will call in the information. I have met a few police who say they enjoy the opportunity to give out the $250 tickets to people who misuse the handicap spaces.

I would suggest that if this happens again you call the police department.

While I agree wholeheartly on calling the police, just make sure they might have forgotten to put it up. I have placard and I leave it on my dash (not supposed to drive with it hanging). Sometimes my DH (or I) will forget to hang it, so if you just drive by you wouldn't see it. If you were to walk up to the car you would.
We don't want to be calling "wolf" too many times to the police that would then prevent them from coming when needed.

 

[pumpkinboy]

Originally posted by JudithM
...What Olga did was wrong, but as the saying goes "two wrongs don't make a right." I would have made sure after church to be really sweet to her (almost sickening) & let her know (maybe in front of many others) that what she did was wrong...

Well JudithM, I have to agree with you here, and admit that I was being a jerk, and not very Christian to boot (having plumbed the depths of my soul for the true reason I blocked her in). I had initially told myself that I was doing it to teach folks about HC parking etiquette. Then I realized how pleased I was at how annoyed "Olga" got about it (I think the psychological term here is "schadenfreude" or taking delight in the misfortune of others), or how I looked forward to embarrassing the person who parked there in this church setting.

So despite the fact that I was in the right, it was still self-righteous of me, and as we all know: those who are self-righteous are seldom righteous (just look at most of Congress ).

I'll have to atone for it somehow, bcs I am sure I'll do it again (it's so hard to be righteous when you are justifiably angry).

 

[scroot]

As a minister with a family member who has a disability, I have been known to block people in. The biggest concern is not "being a jerk" but for one's safety. Often people get very upset about it. Let's face it, they are nasty enough to park there to begin with one has to expect the nastiness to increas upon confrontation. When this issue rises at our place I am not sweet about it. I usually say, "the folks who need these spaces don't go through what they do on a daily basis so you can have a close place to park." Never had to confront anyone more than once on this. I bet Olga has learned her leason.

 

[McCall]

I agree with what you did, but an even more important question for the minister is why is there ONE HC parking spot.
there should certainly be more than one unless it is an awfully tiny church.

 

[pumpkinboy]

Originally posted by McCall
I agree with what you did, but an even more important question for the minister is why is there ONE HC parking spot.
there should certainly be more than one unless it is an awfully tiny church.

Nope, decent size parish (>100 families), pretty small parking lot but usually plenty of street parking available for parishoners. I've been mildly annoyed at only having 1 HC spot for a while, but we've usually gotted decent parking even if the other family with a wheelchair van is using it. I am gonna put this item before the vestry and see what comes of it.

I'll see about the whole "loving my enemy" business, as hard as it is. Not that "Olga" would be my enemy by any means; she just needs a little guidance (I tell myself). Wish me luck!

 

[Selket]

Originally posted by dclfun
. The guy came back out to his car and literally begged me to move, said he was diabetic and needed to eat immediately ( I told him he could certainly run in the store and grab a bite to eat or I'd send my son in to purchase him a snack), cursed and swore at me, claimed I didn't have a lift van ( I'm in a power wheelchair!), etc. The police finally arrived ---Kathy

I'm not the expert on this as my son was just diagnosed with type 1 diabetes and he is only 2 - so not yet driving don't worry! - but it UTTERLY depresses me. I know that if someone who is type 1 is going very low - well they should have a snack/glucose/etc right there in the car with them but we're all human right? Someone going low can become quite irritable, irrational and emotional from what I've been told directly by type 1 folks and seen happen to my son. It IS possible he was telling you the truth and his judgment was affected by his low sugar. I suppose passing out and having a seizure would have been more convincing. I can't say that taking the handicapped spot was the right thing for him to do but I also don't see what choice he had if he had to get food and didn't have any. He would have had to wait for the food to take affect (and hopefully be able to test himself with his meter) before driving off. I don't condone folks taking the handicapped spot "for just a minute" to drop off kids at daycare or so forth but perhaps there are emergencies where you have to step back and consider what someone's options are in that case. Believe me - I'd take the whole row of handicapped spots if my son was starting to pass out/seizure from a diabetic low and I had to get some food. I'd just eat the parking ticket....gladly....than see him suffer from passing out or a seizure.

 

[OneMoreTry]

The generally accepted "biblical" approach is to confront the person directly and let them know about the grievance. (Not to be passive aggressive.)

If they do not respond, then the next step is to bring your grievance before the church "elders" or leaders. Actually, the other person should be there, too.

I can't remember the scripture reference for this.

 

[dclfun]

Carol- My husband was type I diabetic, so yes, I understand what you're saying. This man had not run in a grocery store to buy food. We were at the courthouse where I was applying for a homestead exemption. He was a *lawyer*and apparently habitually used this parking spot while he went in "for a moment to file something". We waited for over 30 minutes for him to return while I had already called the police. I offered for my son to go and get him some food if indeed he needed it as I realized he might truly physically have to eat and I wasn't about to stop him or endanger his life. He "wanted to spare himself the public embarrassment of blocking in a woman on life support equipment due to his stature in the community." Sorry if anyone misunderstood. This issue happens to me on a weekly basis and since I knew who this man was due to his license plate, I decided he needed a lesson. I'd never hurt anyone and can easily forgive someone elderly or another person using the spot who truly needs it. ---kathy

 

[arminnie]

Pumpkin Boy - you are never a jerk.

I don't know about other states but in CA the police can come on private property to ticket. A friend of mine parked in front of the rental office at the apartment complex late one night - it was closed and she still got a ticket. It was way more than $250 and that was 10 years ago.

 

[Talking Hands]

Carol,
If he was going low the last thing he needed to be doing was getting in his car and driving. He sohould have been grabbing food and he should have had something with him like glucose tabs or a tube of icing gel. Driving while low is irresponsible and the reason that legislatures are looking at banning diabetics from driving. You know that you can have your drivers liccense taken from you if you drive while low and have an accident. This type of irresponsible behavior will affect your sons rights in the future. There is no way I would move my car and allow someone who claimed to be low to drive away. Get him food or soda, yes but not drive.
Yes I am being crutal but this is something that is going to affect my right to drive as a 25 year diabetic. If a diabetic drives while thier blood sugar is low and cause accidents it affects every diabetic even the careful ones who test before driving and keep emergencey sugar with them at all times.