Are any Disney guests average income people?

[jimmymc]

When I say "because of COVID," I'm not necessarily meaning "for health and safety reasons." Housekeeping is the easiest example. Disney claims that daily housekeeping is suspended for the "health and safety" of the cast. That's obviously BS, I agree with you. But COVID is still the reason... in this instance because they can't get the staff they need.

Gotcha, yes that makes sense. I've read some news stories recently about companies using Covid and worker shortages as an excuse to be understaffed, and it seems like Disney is doing the same.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

It's not net add unless you're staying at a deluxe resort. You used to have 1 park open an hour early and another open 2-3 hours late for all on-site guests.

That was not typical. I picked a random week in March 2017, peak Spring Break.

Sunday - Morning HS (1 hr)
Monday - Morning AK (1 hr)
Tuesday - Evening Epcot (2 hr)
Wednesday - Evening MK (2 hr)
Thursday - Morning Epcot (1 hr)
Friday - Morning MK (1 hr)
Saturday - Morning AK (1 hr)

So 9 hours total for the week, compared to 14 hours that will be offered on the new model for ALL resort guests, not just Deluxe.

Gotcha, yes that makes sense. I've read some news stories recently about companies using Covid and worker shortages as an excuse to be understaffed, and it seems like Disney is doing the same.

I don't think it's an excuse, I think it's real. They're throwing fairly generous signing bonuses for certain positions and it's not helping them get bodies. It also doesn't help that the federal government isn't issuing work visas, so immigration is essentially shut off.

 

[hsmamato2]

30 minutes at every park every day and evening hours for Deluxe guests is a net add. This will cost Disney more in labor to operate than the old one park per day. This is a change but I don't consider it a cut.


My understanding from people fairly familiar with the negotiations is that Mears was seeking an abnormally high rate increase for the renewal.


Half of what you said is a COVID problem. Streetmosphere wasn't "cut", it was suspended due to the global pandemic.

streetmosphere (and a few other great shows) were cut prior to the pandemic. I actually appreciate hearing the podcast voices express unhappiness over the current situations. For me,it's easier than hearing phrases like"it's Disney,I'll pay WHATEVER to get in that park/be on that cruise,just so glad for the opportunity...' etc. (BTW I really enjoy the podcasts)
IDK exactly what "average" income is... b/c each area of the US has such different COL etc. I do know that I'm fully able to pay the outrageous prices (for less experiences) but I DON'T WANT TO. That's the bottom line. I value my own time and money enough that I won't do something that I feel wastes that. As much as I love the "Disney that was" it no longer exists. What does exist? I'm not even sure of that yet...I don't know if anyone knows...I guess we all wait and see?

 

[justadreamaway77]

An average income family living in Manhattan makes about $500k per year. So yes they can afford Disney

You have to take Cost of living into the factor.....$500,000 sounds like a lot but when you are paying $2000/month just for a studio rental, a family could easily spend upwards of $10,000/month for an apartment big enough for them. Then take into effect the higher cost of restaurants/food/activities that NYC has vs. a smaller city. So in the end, $500,000 a year in Manhattan may not be as much as you think. This is why companies like Google and Facebook have started telling their employees that work remote they are going to reduce their pay if they decide to move from high cost areas to low cost areas. Before, they paid them those salaries because they had to live in the area and pay the high costs to go to work but now that they are remote, they can move to more affordable places farther away.

 

[notatallmagic]

To the original question - about ten years ago, we started coming to Disney.

Our household income for 3 at the time was well under $60,000/year. We drove from out of state (they didn't charge for parking if I recall); stayed at All Star Music in January (definitely off season); and enjoyed very nice discounts and often Free Dining. We always packed snacks and breakfast items, so our food costs were minimal. My kids used Christmas money from Grandma for one souvineer each. I believe our trips priced out under $2500 for a week. It was truly Magical. So, it WAS affordable to our "average" family, but with other sacrifices (we only got pizza about once a week, didn't eat out, and had a very frugal entertainment budget - state parks hiking, camping, etc).

We did that same January trip every other year until about three years ago. Our school system "disallowed" vacation as an excused absence, and my kids aged into sports where the January trip didn't work anymore. We started going during Spring Break - everything else the same, and the cost more than doubled - we needed airfare, no more free dining, and AllStars and tickets were priced for Spring Break...maybe $5000 for the week. Still affordable, but much less so for us.

About three years ago, we had the unexpected ability to purchase Annual Passes. We made signficant budget changes to support that "Year of Disney". But trip costs continued to climb as we were traveling during Spring Break and summer months where the costs are higher.

Summary Assessment based on our experience - if you CAN travel during off Peak times and find great Discounts (which Free Dining was - and I haven't seen that offered since Covid), then the immersive Disney experience probably IS still in reach - with other budgeting and entertainment "sacrifice" involved.

If you need to travel during a more Peak time, need to fly/pay to park, and minimal discounts are offered, it becomes a challenge. You can stay offsite, cook in your room, and shorten your trip - but the current price tag for that same experience we had before (6 nights/7 days, onsite, 2 meals/1snack pp) would likely now exceed $8000, and that would NOT be affordable for an average family - except as maybe a "once in a lifetime" splurge. Add in the lack of extended extra Magic Hours, paid airport transport, paid LIghtning Lane/Genie, Character Meals, etc, that cost would easily exceed $10,000. Not affordable for an average family income at all.

 

[StarrySkye21]

I used to live in Florida and a family friend was a cast member helped us get into the parks every year when I was a child. I am now married for 12 years, living out of state and low-income living paycheck to paycheck. We have since gone only once in our adult married life in 2017 and hit 2 parks while staying with family.

This next trip in November will just be two of us (me and my 11yr old dd). This is our big “mom and me” special trip. We are staying at ASMusic (first and likely last time staying on-property) and visiting all four parks. Between the flights, hotel, quick-service food, tickets and souvenirs, we are coming in just under $2k. To pay for it, I picked up an extra shift each week at the restaurant I work at and have been chipping away at that balance owed. If my husband knew how much I am paying for this, he would die. But I just want one special trip with my girl. She’s only this young once, and I want to introduce her to the Disney Magic I once knew.

So anyway, yes, lower income families are slowly being priced out, but not completely. There’s still ways of cutting costs and still being able to visit Disney amid rising costs. Heck, I could have saved even more money by staying off-site and bringing pb&j’s for lunches.

 

[rangerxenos]

Families (with children) making $68,700 don't pay taxes.

They are paying SOME taxes, at the very least Social Security and taxes on the state level, and depending upon what state you live in, those can be very high.

 

[sheilafri]

30 minutes at every park every day and evening hours for Deluxe guests is a net add. This will cost Disney more in labor to operate than the old one park per day. This is a change but I don't consider it a cut.


My understanding from people fairly familiar with the negotiations is that Mears was seeking an abnormally high rate increase for the renewal.


Half of what you said is a COVID problem. Streetmosphere wasn't "cut", it was suspended due to the global pandemic.

To what extent did Disney use the pandemic as an excuse to make cuts they wanted to make to increase the bottom line? We’ll have to see what comes back to be able to parse out that answer.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Those of us who are low income who go to Disney Parks are able to do so because we make sacrifices in our day to day lives and work 2 jobs or over time and save money over a long period of time.
The changes Disney is making don't really make much of a difference to this group of people, as they have always known that there are experiences, events, merchandise, hotels, and restaurants that are outside their budget. This group of people have a very specific amount of money they know they can spend for a Disney parks vacation and they plan their Disney parks vacation based on what this amount of money will get them.

Those who have NOT had to sacrifice in their day to day lives and can afford Disney parks by just having one normal hours job and still have a very affluent lifestyle are the ones that are not liking the new Disney Parks experience. They plan their Disney Parks vacation based on the things they want to do, the food they want to eat, the hotel they want to stay at, secure in the knowledge that they will have the money for whatever they plan.

 

[heresabe]

An average income family living in Manhattan makes about $500k per year. So yes they can afford Disney

The above is not true. According to the published Census data, this is the factual data for New York City. When one posts grossly exaggerated numbers, one's total argument falls short.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

To what extent did Disney use the pandemic as an excuse to make cuts they wanted to make to increase the bottom line? We’ll have to see what comes back to be able to parse out that answer.

Many of the cuts they've made have *hurt* their bottom line.

Disney is *spending extra* to hire third party contractors to supplement their bus fleet because they can't get enough drivers. They're leaving tables empty at restaurants because they can't get enough kitchen staff. They've stopped allowing DVC members to pay extra for daily housekeeping because they can't get enough hotel staff.

The labor crisis is severe.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Seems like the podcast gang has been pretty down about Disney offering less while charging more. Also seems like they (and many on message boards) are talking a lot about average guests being priced out and a Disney vacation being exclusive to only high income earners. I would argue a Disney vacation has been too expensive for the vast majority of Americans for the past 20+ years. Where has the outrage been? Is It because now more of us are now part of that majority? I’m really interested in hearing how you all feel. It just bums me out when people only get fired up when a pricing issue finally affects them. By the way, when you can barely walk through a park due to crowds (my experience at Dsneyland in July) management would not be doing their job if they didn’t raise prices.

I would say it also makes a difference of where you live in the country, I make a good living in the northeast, but compared to someone in the heartland, or deep south, I probably look like a 1% based on my salary, so at least to me Disney is expensive but in comparison to what I pay around me, it's not all that bad

 

[heresabe]

Many of the cuts they've made have *hurt* their bottom line.

Disney is *spending extra* to hire third party contractors to supplement their bus fleet because they can't get enough drivers. They're leaving tables empty at restaurants because they can't get enough kitchen staff.
The labor crisis is severe.

So the question arises...how are the third-party bus fleets able to hire enough drivers?

 

[loves to dive]

I was poor when we started going, a single mom secretary living in Georgia. About 37 years ago. It would take me 2 years to save for the trip, we always stayed on site (at that time the only on site was the monorail and Shades of Green, which was not military). On the off years, we would just take long weekend trips to somewhere within driving distance and stay in cheap hotels. My son was on board 100%, it meant sharing Happy Meals and his toys coming from the dollar store.

Fast forward, as he grew up I grew from a secretary to a bookkeeper, still not high income, probably lower middle. We still went every other year until he moved from home. I moved in with hubby and we became a two income household. He hates to travel. I started going once a year, my son probably skipped a year or two. Then I started going twice a year, once a year with my now adult son and sometimes his now ex-wife or a SO. Still, middle class at best.

Now I'm semi-retired, only work one day a week and get paid hourly. I won't start drawing SSI for another year and half. Still go at least twice a year, hubby still doesn't go but I did convince him to take the RV one year. He hated it, I hated that he hated it, my son wasn't happy since it's sort of our thing. I didn't go at all 2020 because hubby wasn't comfortable with it. I've been twice this year, April and last month. Once solo, once with my son, his SO and their baby. I'm going again in December and will go again in Feb. (told hubby since I missed 2020 I'm doing all the festivals). Still middle class and since my income has drastically decreased, I'm guessing lower middle class.

We own a RV which we take on short trips around Georgia, TN, FL, SC and Ala. since hubby will do that because we can take the dog and he can eat in the RV and be lazy while I hike. Disney is my happy place and I love going solo. I still stay on site because I like the bubble. We don't spend money on a lot of things, pulling the RV around costs the gas and campgrounds, which are way less than Disney. Hubby works from home and literally leaves the house to work in the yard, go buy groceries or to Lowes. I go into the office once a week and that's about it so don't need a lot of new clothes and can last over a month on one tank of gas. You don't have to be rich or even upper middle class.

 

[onelove8187]

I think the disappointment is absolutely reasonable. I have been going to WDW for 6 years with my kids, first 4 of which I was very low income. There were and still are ways to save dramatic amounts of money through various avenues and this is the only way WDW would happen for me. During this time I completed an engineering degree which at times was highly motivated by the prospect of affording disney world trips long term and in new and exciting ways for us. Personally, I am bothered by the price increases because... it will cost me more... I fail to understand why anyone is surprised by this response. It sucks. However, on that note I very much understand that disney is a company and capitalism and stakeholders and what not, it is just the product of our society and arguably the right thing for Disney to do "assuming" it yields higher profits for the company, which it probably will... but not guaranteed. SO I will pay the price and continue to go to WDW because I still find value at the level I will need to pay.

The larger frustration I have is not disappointment regarding how it impacts me, which certainly exists; but honestly, it is more upsetting to me that working class will be largely unable to experience WDW as they have been able to in the past. My visceral response is to feel for myself 6 years ago, with 2 young kids and dreams of WDW, not being able to figure out how to make it happen. An emotional response to changes that negatively affect you and/or others is a normal human reaction... it is perfectly reasonable. I cannot comprehend the superiority complex that suggests anything else. Of course WDW has always been a luxury, of course it is not owed to anyone, but the group of people who will be able to experience the joy is shrinking and from my perspective that is a net negative as I am not currently a stockholder.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

WDW can be done on a relatively low budget if you want to so I do not believe people are actually "priced out."

The problem comes in when it costs so much more than alternatives that people choose other options. I think that is what we'll see more of going forward. People who don't have endless resources will decide that the value they are getting at WDW isn't good enough to reach the top of the priority list.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

The larger frustration I have is not disappointment regarding how it impacts me, which certainly exists; but honestly, it is more upsetting to me that working class will be largely unable to experience WDW as they have been able to in the past. My visceral response is to feel for myself 6 years ago, with 2 young kids and dreams of WDW, not being able to figure out how to make it happen. An emotional response to changes that negatively affect you and/or others is a normal human reaction... it is perfectly reasonable. I cannot comprehend the superiority complex that suggests anything else. Of course WDW has always been a luxury, of course it is not owed to anyone, but the group of people who will be able to experience the joy is shrinking and from my perspective that is a net negative as I am not currently a stockholder.

While I understand this perspective I have to wonder how much of the experience of the past is seen through rose tinted glasses. The parks are way more crowded now than they ever were when I was growing up. Why were so few going back then? Was it really a "working class" experience? I can only think of a couple kids in my school that went so it certainly wasn't a common thing.

 

[NY Pirate Princess]

Those who have NOT had to sacrifice in their day to day lives and can afford Disney parks by just having one normal hours job and still have a very affluent lifestyle are the ones that are not liking the new Disney Parks experience. They plan their Disney Parks vacation based on the things they want to do, the food they want to eat, the hotel they want to stay at, secure in the knowledge that they will have the money for whatever they plan.
[/QUOTE

What OP and others are missing is the distinction between what people CAN pay versus what they WILL pay for.

My family makes above the average median income for our area, but we do not live an affluent lifestyle. I practice vegetarianism, conservation, and frugality. I planned to take our daughter to Disney at 4 and 14. We went while she was 4, and before we left I was planning our next adventure. So much for frugality! And yes, we budget and save so we can go to Disney once every two years. The savings used to be a fun game with a magical reward at the end.

I'll always be grateful for my Disney memories. I will enjoy the heck out of my last long on property trip to Walt Disney World next summer. In the future, more of my money will go to local conservation efforts, my neighborhood coffee roaster, and small batch bourbon. Disney will be just fine not seeing us. We'll be just fine, too.

 

[ofcabbagesandkings]

When I was a child, we were lower-middle class. Had enough so we didn't qualify for food stamps or free lunch, but we didn't own a house or have much savings. We definitely viewed WDW as a once-in-a-lifetime, fantasy trip, as did most of the kids in my neighborhood and school. I didn't know anyone who went every year. We drove down, and I had no idea there was such a thing as staying on-site, or even going for a week. We stayed at a Motel 6 (maybe a Days Inn if we were feeling fancy, I can't recall) and got one day at MK and Epcot each. Definitely no table service meals, we packed some sandwiches. There was no FP of any sort back then so I mostly remember standing in a lot of long lines, because my family were not rope droppers. I think, for families like mine, the only thing they'll notice is the increase in ticket prices at the gate. But even those increases will price some people out.

 

[MillauFr]

The above is not true. According to the published Census data, this is the factual data for New York City. When one posts grossly exaggerated numbers, one's total argument falls short.
View attachment 606848

Which is why I said Manhattan and not the outer boroughs. $500k in Manhattan doesn't really go that far and you are still middle class with that salary there.