Asperger's vs. Sensory Integration Dysfunction

nwdisgal said:
This whole area is evolving... As my neuro specialist told me about seven years ago, when they diagnosed my son, with High Functioning Autism "In ten years, we may call this something completely different." I think really that he was just referring to the enormity of this classification, and there are sub categories all over the place.

I have been told by my SLPs that the difference between Autism and Aspergers, is that kids with Autism tend to have the verbal delay, while the kids with Aspergers, don't have the speech delay. I've heard the school and others use Aspergers and ASD interchangably, though I think there are clear differences in each. As far as the Sensory Issues, I've been in support groups with moms who have kids with everything from ADHD, Downs Syndrome, CP, to Autism and there was a lot of cross over with sensory issues. It seems to be pretty common across the board for kids with Special Needs.

HFA vs. Aspergers--I have been told the same regarding the speech delay. Of course many disagree. One reason the dev. ped. absolutely ruled out Aspergers (and suggested NVLD) is that my son did have a speech delay. This doc said that the speech delay automatically disqualifies him as having Aspergers. :confused3 However, my other son, who very obviously has classic autism did NOT have a speech delay. Some have suggested that if he comes along in other areas this could lead to his dx being changed to Aspergers. Schools do seem to use HFA and Aspergers as the same. I have even had a neurologist tell me that Aspergers is really just very high functioning autism. I think the whole spectrum is changing constantly. Better to just deal with the needs of the kids and forget about the label. :)
 
Better to just deal with the needs of the kids and forget about the label.

That's very good advice and my neuro doctor told me something similiar when my son was diagnosed. The word Autism, can seem so daunting, especially when it is first heard. Alot of people associate Autism with "Rain Man". Much has changed since that movie was made, and we know there is this whole spectrum, not just severely affected. Fortunately, even for kids with severe Autism, assisted technology is helping to open up their worlds, and they can communicate with us. We're learning how much they really knew all along . Also, don't know if anyone on these forum watches All My Children, but there is a character on there, Lily, who does a great job of portraying an ASD kid. All I can guess is that one of the writers on that show must have a kid with this disability because they write pretty true to it. Lily says things and I swear I've heard similiar words out of my DS's mouth.
 
Wow! I thought I had already read a great deal about ASD and now I'm learning even more.

I guess I will just sit back and wait for the doc appt. and go from there. I just don't know what to do in the mean time.

He starts school on Sept. 6 and I have no idea what, if anything, I should tell his Kindergarten teacher.

Thanks for all the input. It really means a lot to me!!

thanks,
tara
 
:grouphug:
He starts school on Sept. 6 and I have no idea what, if anything, I should tell his Kindergarten teacher.

You can just tell her that he is going through evaluations and present any information that you feel would be helpful to her in teaching your child. Actually, it is very common for kids issues to be diagnosed in Kindergarten (at least that is what I was told). Also, disabilities like ASD seem to be pretty common now and many more educators are familiar with it or they have a collegue who is familiar with it. I've been really fortunate in that out of several teachers I've only had one real jerk in the bunch. Most teachers were grateful that I informed them what was going on and were willing to work with us. There were some that went way beyond the call of duty , like one of the teachers who when DS was going through his Peter Pan Obsession/Phase let him call all his classmates by his chosen stage name for them - Michael, Nana, everybody had a name and the whole class went along with it ;) Also, in our district, we had an ASD expert who was brought in to advocate in the classroom and mentor teachers in this area if they were struggling. For whatever reason, we had a large incidence of ASD where I lived, so the district actually had a person full time who was experienced in it and able to help other teachers with it. I've only had one bad experience since DS started school in our new district (he's in 4th grade now). When I ran into a problem I went to my SPED folks, and they stepped in and helped me out. Haven't had any problems since, knock on wood ;) I've been actually really happy with all they are doing here at our school, not just for DS, but for the other Special Needs kids as well. Good luck to you!
 
isyne4u said:
Today that changes. I have a 5 yo that has been referred for testing by a neurodevelopmental doctor (not sure exactly what I'm supposed to call him). The appt is not until Dec because that was the earlies appt they could give me.

Anyway, I've begun to suspect that my son has Asperger's Syndrome and as such discussed it with my ped, well, I only gave her the examples of the behaviors I was questioning and she mentioned asperger's as one of the posibilities. So now while I'm waiting I have spent a fortune at Barnes and Noble on books related to Asperger's and Autism.

One of the books I bought was reccommended by a fellow teacher whose daughter has some similar issues. The book is "The Out of Sync Child". As I read it, I began to think that this sounded more and more like my DS.

So my question (finally!) is Are Asperger's and SI dysfunction related? Are they often confused? Are they really one and the same?

Thanks,
tara
Hi Tara,

My daughter is 6 1/2, has been diagnosed with SI since she was 3 years old. At age 5 she was diagnosed with Aspergers. I questioned it alot since Jenn is OVERly friendly, very talkative, but is socially inept! I think the 2 co-exist along with the Adhd and OCD she has! Would love to talk furthur, as I am still confused with the labeling! To me autism was always a silent child, unlike this energizer rabbit I have! :earsgirl:
 
Hopefully your questions are being answered, and you are finding support here and from others near you. Individually, no one answer fits everyone. Many doctors may need to be consulted, many meetings had with school evaluators, and much personal research found in books and websites. Never take a 'no' from someone not empowered to give you a 'yes' in the first place.

It takes time, patience and persistence; and there are methods to help manage or overcome these conditions. Eventually, you will find the right combination of behavioral modification, medication, educational plan, special services, diet and lifestyle. Take good care of yourself also, and reward your good work with a trip to WDW.
 
isyne4u said:
From looking at the info in the books and about what the DSM requires for the diagnosis, that is what I'm thinking about wiht my son. He doesn't match either one completely. But I know he is not "normal".

did you look at the DSM for PDD-NOS? That's what my ds5 was diagnosed with, after previously being diagnosed with ADHD, Mixed Receptive-Expressive Learning Disorder, and Sensory Integration Disorder. He just didn't FIT neatly into one catagory, so it's the PDD-NOS. Hang in there....I know it's hard waiting for appts. My ds starts kindergarten this year also....my suggestion, tell his teacher anything and everything that might possibly be necessary for her to know, including what works best for your child during certain types of situations. I'd rather the teacher have too much info than not enough, like for example, if he has a meltdown, try to redirect him, NOT "talk him down from it".

Good luck to you!!! :wave:
 


Things have finally slowed down where I can come back here and respond!!

nwdisgal...your child's teachers sound wonderful!! I can't imagine too many teachers that would let the chld do what yours did with Peter Pan. That's cool. We have a huge school system and lots of kids with ASD. However, we don't have a dedicated person to help with it. I know his elementary school is a site school for many children with disabilities...primarily Severely and Prfoundly Handciapped, so hopefully they will have someone on site who is at least somewhat knowledgable. I think I am going to contact the school's assistant principal in charge of special education and ask her/him to set up a meeting for me with the teacher the first week of school before the kids come back.

Robin09...I totally relate to the energizer bunny!!! I was the same way with autism until just a couple of years ago when I heard about asperger's from a friend. I guess this is why people get paid big bucks to sort it all out!! Maybe we can figure this thing out together!

Ambassador...I am getting lots of info and support here at the Dis and in RL. Being a special ed. teacher myself, I am talking to everyone I know and getting their opinions. And boy are there far reaching opinions. Everything from "Oh, I've seen your son...there's nothing wrong with him" to "yeah, I've always wondered why he didn't make eye contact". So now with school right around the corner I'm really going to be using everyone one of my resources! The part that bugs me now is trying to figure out how to deal with him as if he had the diagnosis and not get frustrated with him and think of him as just being a brat (does that make any sense??)
Oh and yes we have a WDW trip planned, we have been 3 times already and I always seem frustrated with DS because of his meltdowns and the strange things he does....hopefully this time will be easier and I'll be able to understand better why he does these things. Of course the trip is before his appt. :rolleyes:

Momof2Diskids...PDD-NOS is what I'm afraid they will say and then I still won't know what to do with him. My doctor suggested PDD when she was saying what the examples I had given her were. Let me know how Kindergarten goes for you and what works. I'd love to have some suggestions. I am going to arrange a meeting and talk to the teacher and tell her what i know sets him off and what he is likely to do. Hopefully this will help and at least give me some piece of mind.

Thank you for all the support here. I knew I could count on the DIS for advice and comfort!! hugs to all!!
tara
 
I would strongly encourage you to write a letter to the teacher with your specific concerns and accomodation requests, etc. At the beginning of the year almost every parent is trying to tell the teacher about their child and there is so little time. If your child doesn't have a case manager yet, I would definitely do this and perhaps request a conference a couple of weeks into the year. I can't tell you how many "get to the know teacher" sessions I have been to where there was a line of parents telling the teacher this or that detail about their child. I have two sons with special needs. The youngest has very obvious needs and a strong case manager. With my older things are much less clear. I have a letter I keep on file and just update each year explaining the situation and making certain requests. In his case I ask that she review his IEP and consult his case manager (the teacher should do this anyway, but it doesn't always happen before school starts). Sorry to ramble, but I think the letter is key. I know the teachers appreciate being able to review it in a less chaotic environment and can refer back to it. Even if you get to have the face to face teacher meeting before the first of the year, I would have the letter.

I've forgotten some of what has been written, but does your child receive specail ed. services? If not, you may want to write a letter referring him. Even if his problems are slight, there may be things that should be put into play. At the very least he should have a 504 plan.

Feel free to PM me. I may be able to give you some specific suggestions to try depending upon your concerns.
 
Hijacking this thread for a little while. MY 2nd dd (going into 2nd grade) had special ed services for preschool, but no longer qualifies in elementary. They gave us an "intervention plan" but no 504. Definitely no IEP. Our biggest problem, I guess, is that we are getting stuk at the diagnosis phase. She doesn't have one. What we have listed so far are:

*Vision Field Defect (eye abnormality left eye)
*Kidney Abnormality (hasn't caused problems yet, but exists)
*Gross Motor Delay (but she walks, runs...sort of lopes really, jumps, hops)
*Motor Planning problem (balance issues, especially)
*Fine Motor Delay (they have hyperactive kids finish her cutting tasks for her once her hands get too tired)
*Short Stature (follows around the 1st percentile)


Geneticist is confident that she has some syndrome, but cannot pinpoint one. She has some facial dysmorphisms that point to syndromes. Anyway, without a diagnosis we are left out of most camps, special programs, etc. VERY frustrating.

I have often wondered if her meltdowns (many many times per day, even in school, she bursts into tears over EVERYTHING). She is a just-turning-seven kid. One would think she would be able to NOT Cry once in a while. She cries after school, she cries after trips to stores, she cries if anyone talks to her in less than a quiet, sweet voice. She CRIES. Anyone have experience/advice with THAT?

BEth
 
taximomfor4 said:
Hijacking this thread for a little while. MY 2nd dd (going into 2nd grade) had special ed services for preschool, but no longer qualifies in elementary. They gave us an "intervention plan" but no 504. Definitely no IEP. Our biggest problem, I guess, is that we are getting stuk at the diagnosis phase. She doesn't have one. What we have listed so far are:

*Vision Field Defect (eye abnormality left eye)
*Kidney Abnormality (hasn't caused problems yet, but exists)
*Gross Motor Delay (but she walks, runs...sort of lopes really, jumps, hops)
*Motor Planning problem (balance issues, especially)
*Fine Motor Delay (they have hyperactive kids finish her cutting tasks for her once her hands get too tired)
*Short Stature (follows around the 1st percentile)


Geneticist is confident that she has some syndrome, but cannot pinpoint one. She has some facial dysmorphisms that point to syndromes. Anyway, without a diagnosis we are left out of most camps, special programs, etc. VERY frustrating.

I have often wondered if her meltdowns (many many times per day, even in school, she bursts into tears over EVERYTHING). She is a just-turning-seven kid. One would think she would be able to NOT Cry once in a while. She cries after school, she cries after trips to stores, she cries if anyone talks to her in less than a quiet, sweet voice. She CRIES. Anyone have experience/advice with THAT?

BEth

Re: 504 or IEP. Do any of her conditions affect learning? This is what you need to prove to get the 504 or IEP. From a quick read, I would wonder about vision. A 504 can provide for sitting at the front of the class. Most teachers are pretty accomodating as far as this goes even w/o 504. (Beware sometimes schools will say, we will accomodate her without the paperwork of a 504, insist on the paperwork, though.) Has she had an OT evaluation either through the school or private? Direct OT services at school are often difficult to get. Besides the motor skill issues, I would request a full sensory evaluation from OT. My older son has issues with writing and cutting and sensory. We can't get the school to budge on direct OT services, but he does have indirect. The OT meets with his teacher and gives a plan and tells her how to help. There are also provision in his IEP. One example of how they helped him with cutting: students were to cut out slips of paper and paste on the fronts and backs of index cards for flash cards. It took him 2 hours to make 40 cards. (crying and frustrated the whole time) So, they then just put the information in two columns and he folded it in half over a piece of card stock, punched holes and put it in his binder. He just flipped the large card back and forth to study. These simple things make life so much easier.
My son's primary disability is listed as OHI, other health impaired. This is the catch all and may be where your daughter fits. My son has a secondary disability of ED (emotional). You need to be careful with this label because some school distrcts will toss these kids into classrooms that can be, let's say, difficult. This label used to be called BD, behaviorally disturbed and there were a lot of kids with a lot of problems in there. It also would be the place the schools would end up putting the kids that just wouldn't follow the rules.
My son has dx of ADHD (which got him the OHI label, but I think it is really NVLD or something on the autism spectrum, but don't care as long as he is getting the help he needs.) He also has dx of SID (sensory), generalized anxiety disorder, OCD, bipolar (all could really be autism spectrum related). He cries A LOT. He is 10 years old. He is very sensitive and frustrates easily. Takes any kind of criticism very hard. I would say 1/3 of the days he comes home from school and cries about something that happened. We have plans in place when he can't hold it together at school, too.
A neurologist may help you with a SID label. (As so often recommended, The Out of Sync Child is an excellent book and if you suspect this is a problem, give it a read and see what you think).
I would consult a psychologist (preferrably a neuropsychologist that works with children) he/she could address SID also. But, the crying may be a focus here. Our neuropsychologist is our best advocate for the school for both my children. We hire her to attend IEP meeting and to do independent observations, testing and reports. She also helps us with home advice. A letter from someone of this nature should help in another referral for eligibilty of services. (BTW, a psychologist can make an autism or autism spectrum dx).
Not sure if any of that helped. I wish we didn't have to label our kids, but as you wrote without that label, services are difficult to come by.
 
We do have evals done....the same school gave her free preschool with PT and OT (OT for both SID and fine motor delay). Its just that she tests so high in everything (taught herself to read behind our backs, apparently, when she was JUST 3). Her grades don't suffer too much. Math Mad Minutes can be tricky because if she tries to write that fast, her writing gets rather hard to read. But other math scores keep her grade ok.

Behaviorally, she cries ALL THE TIME at school. If her "friend" tells her one day (which she does often enough that they got their desks separated) Rissa will cry...quietly though. EVERYTHING hurts her feelings. I would think hormonal, but it has never stopped from toddlerhood. WE have tried ignoring the crying, trying to get her to talk instead, redirection, EVERYTHING! I am starting to think she just cannot help it, and needs to burn off stress or something.

The school did get a volunteer ( a retired teacher) to come in and do fine motor skills stuff with her 1x per week, but it was not "official." And the OT took her along to do Brain Gym when she took other kids, too. But once again, not official.

The school tells me that she cannot get OHI because her "testable" problems are motor skill issues only, with no firm diagnosis. That Motor Delays cannot stand alone. THis is the brick wall we are up against. I looked for advocates, but cannot find like a free parent advocate or anything. Gonna have to save $ and pay someone to come with me I guess. Its just so frustrating. We even found a great local camp, but they wouldn't take us because she does't have one of the listed diagnoses. She doesn't have ANY diagnosis!!

Man, it gets tiring!

Beth
 
Yes, that is pretty standard with OT. I know where we live a student cannot get OT services alone.
I will PM you.
 
Our son has high functioning autism & while we thought it was asperger's, we recently learned that it was high functioning autism. He also has NVLD. What I struggle with the most is that people just don't understand. They look at us like were bad parents because it isn't OBVIOUS that he has something wrong. Does anyone else deal with this?

Like you, I thought our son had SID. I guess children on the spectrum can have SID, ADHD, NVLD. They are all basically interchangeable. We were told the same thing that nwdisgal was that kids with asperger's don't have the speech delay.

Good luck to you. Definitely seek out early intervention. Our son has improved X 1000 since we sought out services.
 
isyne4u said:
PDD-NOS is what I'm afraid they will say and then I still won't know what to do with him. My doctor suggested PDD when she was saying what the examples I had given her were. Let me know how Kindergarten goes for you and what works. I'd love to have some suggestions. I am going to arrange a meeting and talk to the teacher and tell her what i know sets him off and what he is likely to do. Hopefully this will help and at least give me some piece of mind.

Thank you for all the support here. I knew I could count on the DIS for advice and comfort!! hugs to all!!
tara

Please don't be afraid of a PDD-NOS diagnosis. My DS5 was diagnosed as PDD-NOS when he was 3 1/2. While I look at it as the generic/garbage term for ASD, it goes along way in getting your child the help that they need. Every child is different despite the labels. My son's biggest struggles have been with communication. He is just starting to talk in sentances and stills scripts alot. He does not have meltdowns where as many of the other kids in his group therapy have them frequently. He still stims off of some things but that has decreased as well. While he turned 5 in May, we have decided not to send him to kindergarten this year. We feel that working on many of his social skills are much more important at this point. Plus I feel that most boys should start school at a later age for a number of reasons.

Anyways, don't be afraid of any of the labels. They won't change who your child is and what he needs. Best of luck to you and your DS. The whole maze of evaluations and labels can be overwhelming but hopefully will result in getting your son the help he needs :flower:
 
It's hard getting direct OT services even with a child who has delays and has a diagnosed physical disability like Cerebral Palsy. If the child can do the fine motor skill, but gets tired quickly, that often pops them out because they have age appropriate skills. Same with gross motor skills.

I haven't posted this website for a while:
www.pacer.org
The PACER center is in Minnesota, but it is a resource/clearinghouse for Advocacy for Education in the whole US. They have a lot of helpful links, including advocacy resources for each state. I've used PACER myself for DD and they were very helpful.
 

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