Board Title (Please Read)

[Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan]

being trans is not easy. and it certainly does effect my disney experience. I do not always pass in public. It is not legal for me to enter certain bathrooms. I get stared at. I get asked rude questions.

Any human can be stared at. Everyone is asked rude questions from time to time. I believe you made my point in what the trans issues related to the Disney experience are....bathroom access. That is not a reason to change the title of the board, IMO.

You are more than welcome to post here on the DIS in any one of the forums that are offered. You are most welcome here too, but to suggest that stating that trans folk need to be included in the board title is a bit of a stretch when your most pressing issue is bathroom access and that can be solved with scouting out the companion bathrooms found in the parks, which would offer you stare free potty accesss.

Sorry if you find my comments to be hurtful, but they are accurate. I am not much for politically correctness, in case you haven't figured that out by now.

 

[Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan]

p.s.
transgendered is not a good way to phrase it at all. I am a transgender person. As I said, I am going through a process as some others are and no matter what we do, we will never lose that. So hence we can never be transgendered. It can never end. Thanks.

Funny, Ron and Jill have never taken issue with me with that symantic argument. Again, the politically correct stuff is getting a bit deep in here.

 

[invisible_children07]

You, my friend are no longer the opressed but rather the oppressor.

 

[hematite153]

I have frequently noted that the title of this board seemed a lot less inclusive than the conversations that happened on it.

As a bi woman, I'm used to being ignored by titles and have gotten used to ignoring them myself. That doesn't mean that people cannot get hurt by being excluded.

I do think that being bi makes my disney experience different from a lesbian couple--just like it makes my experience of life different. But, it's tough to put a precise finger on those differences. They're about the way people make assumptions that exclude half of yourself; they're about the details that you are interested in, the things you want to do and or will notice; they're about whether clubs will actually feel welcoming; etc.

I have known trans people who pass easily and I have known trans people who really only pass with people who know and love them. I think that invisible_children07 has brought up a specific need for tolerance and safe space that should be listened to and respected.

It may seem like a title doesn't really matter. But, he has told us that it matters for him. Therefore, if this is really to be a safe space on the inside, we need to be careful not to discount peoples' experiences. Even if there is nothing that we can do and even if we disagree, I think it is still important to frame our opinions as our own rather than as universals.

I also understand the issue with making the title understandable to the general public using these boards, many of whom wouldn't understand GLBTQ. And, history always matters. At the time this forum was created it was replacing a crazily long thread that had been the only safe space. I'm sure it was important for the title to be transparent to others.

Perhaps we have grown up enough to be able to rename the forum. Perhaps we aren't ready.

Either way, invisible_children07 (and the others who haven't yet spoken up), I'm sorry that you've been hurt.

When I try to think of a title I get stuck in the need to keep it short, transparent and inclusive. It seems like an impossible task. I came up with:
"Queer (GLBTQ) at Disney"

But
- I HATE being called "queer"--I don't think there's anything abnormal about me!!!
- I'm not convinced that the average public will understand that reference.

So, then I went to:
"Gay & Lesbian at Disney (GLBTQ Experiences)"

- A bit too long and not quite as inclusive as invisible_children07 was suggesting, but, the best I can do.

 

[hematite153]

p.s.
transgendered is not a good way to phrase it at all. I am a transgender person. As I said, I am going through a process as some others are and no matter what we do, we will never lose that. So hence we can never be transgendered. It can never end. Thanks.

Funny, Ron and Jill have never taken issue with me with that symantic argument. Again, the politically correct stuff is getting a bit deep in here.

I think that this is getting into the issue of responding to personal requests. I know people who prefer "trans", I know people who prefer "transgender person", I know people who prefer "transgendered", etc. It's really the same as the lesbian, ****, gay woman, queer argument.

I do my best to use the terms that people give me for themselves and hope that they will forgive me and correct me gently when I get it wrong.

EDIT: It seems to have asterisked out one of my terms--I actually find that a serious insult. Anyway, it's 4 letters, begins with "d" and is a fairly commonly used term by women around me.

 

[invisible_children07]

thank you very much. i was really upset about the previous posts but thank you thank you thank you for that.

I think your suggestion, also is good.

i am a person too.

 

[Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan]

No one said you were not a person and didn't have feelings or a right to them, but really if you allow labels to define who you are, you are so missing out on life.

PS. Life is rarely fair.

 

[invisible_children07]

http://www.t-vox.org/index.php?title=Cisgender_Privilege

 

[Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan]

That link is filled with a bunch of politically correct mumbo jumbo about gender identity. I have seen it before. I don't care for it. I think it's a bunch of manure thought up by the same people that brought us the word womyn and other politically correct stuff that labels and limits people. Defining yourself should never be an attainable goal. If you have defined yourself, you might as well be dead, because each new day adds depth to who you are and what you might become. Don't let the world label you because the minute you do, you are stunted.

 

[hematite153]

http://www.t-vox.org/index.php?title=Cisgender_Privilege

An interesting read...

...especially because I said, "no, I don't" to half of it.

...pretty much the same reaction I had to "White Privilege".

I had to write an essay once on my reaction to "White Privilege" and it was a really tough experience. I knew that I was asking for backlash to say that the experiences it described did not match my own, but, I couldn't talk about privileges that I didn't have. So, I wrote about how my experiences could have been different. Then I explained the soul searching I'd engaged in that helped me to understand how it was possible to look like a member of the "majority" but have had the experience of the "minority" and how it is possible to be part of a large-scale "majority" but live in a smaller-scale environment where one is actually a "minority".

 

[hematite153]

Defining yourself should never be an attainable goal.

I agree with this. I spent years trying to "figure out who I was". It was a breakthrough to realize that I really only needed to know "who I am now" and what my values are and that I will change as a result of my life experiences.

So, now I have many labels that I apply to myself. I use different labels in different settings based on what the people around me need/want to know. But, I never use a label that denies other parts of myself--hence why I'd never call myself "lesbian".

 

[padalyn]

WOW, that is my reaction to all of the posts. To the OP: I don't think the title of the board was intended to insult, belittle, or not include any people of alternative life styles. To the rest - if the OP feels excluded - does that meand that others might feel that way as well?

I would like to think that we as a group of reasonable alternatlive living folks can accept any and all of that identification.

So - if I may suggest a new title to the board:
Alternative LifeStyles and all friends and family

Yes, long, but maybe this will help some who might not feel included to feel so. We all live a lifesyle that is not the "average" society archtype so alternative was the only word I can think of at this silly hour of the day.

To the person whose word got ***'d I personally find that word so offensive that I am glad it was ***'d. I really get annoyed when it is used in my presence - I don't think it is fair to label anyone with something they don't want to wear as a label. and that label is offensive to many.

Again to the OP: I hope the companion bathrooms provide you the haven you need when you have to do so.

As far as smooching in public - I feel that no one wants to watch ANYONE deep throating someone else in public! A smooch, never a problem in Disney - anywhere. I passionate long kiss - not appropriate in public for anyone of any persuasion <sp?>

getting off my soapbox now.....crawling into bed for a good days sleep!

 

[Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan]

Lifestyle......God, I hate that term! Lifestyle seems to have a choice attached to it. I have no choice in being a lesbian. I am what I am. I have a homosexual ORIENTATION, not a homosexual Lifestyle. Please if you guys are totally bent on changing the name to accomodate the kids in the group with their undies in a politically correct twist, don't use Lifestyle.

PS. Sorry, still need coffee and Daylight Savings Time hasn't been kind to me this year.

 

[smartestnumber5]

Don't let the world label you because the minute you do, you are stunted.

So you won't mind then if we change the board name to "GAY MEN AT DISNEY" and we just ignore the fact that lesbians even exist, right? I mean, there isn't going to be any difference in one's Disney experience whether your a in a girl-girl same-sex couple or a guy-guy same-sex couple right?

Lifestyle......God, I hate that term! Lifestyle seems to have a choice attached to it. I have no choice in being a lesbian. I am what I am. I have a homosexual ORIENTATION, not a homosexual Lifestyle. Please if you guys are totally bent on changing the name to accomodate the kids in the group with their undies in a politically correct twist, don't use Lifestyle.

Umm, aren't you getting your PC panties in a twist over the word "lifestyle"? How does having an "orientation" vs a "lifestyle" affect your Disney experience? And isn't that just a "label" anyway? Why should we care how you label yourself, when you obviously don't give a crap how we label ourselves?

I personally have never felt a strong need that the name of the board be changed, but I completely see where the OP is coming from. After your insulting response, I see it even more. I have been told bisexuality (which I am) doesn't exist by a gay member of these boards. That conversation and your response to this request is an exact mirror of the things I have experienced in the real world from other G and L folk. One of my good friends is studying for a PhD in in sociology and studies biphobia within the LGBTQ community. I've read her interviews with bi folks and each and everyone one of them report dealing with crap like this.

It's sad.

 

[hematite153]

To the person whose word got ***'d I personally find that word so offensive that I am glad it was ***'d. I really get annoyed when it is used in my presence - I don't think it is fair to label anyone with something they don't want to wear as a label. and that label is offensive to many.

I'm sorry that you find this word so offensive. I would never use it for you.
But, my point was that people should get to choose the labels applied to them. It is a word that many of my friends PREFER and they get very hurt and excluded when told that they cannot refer to themselves that way.

Lifestyle......God, I hate that term!

I too find this term problematic. I think there is a much greater difference in lifestyle between people who are homebodies and people who like to go out drinking and dancing every week. Which one are we calling normal? Which one are we saying is alternative? I have lived within communities that I called "alternative", but, they had nothing to do with sexual orientation and everything to do with living outside regular society (consensus decision making, organic shared food, etc.).

That said, if the group-at-large likes the term then I will continue to ignore the title, as I do now.

 

[paigevz]

Ooookay. Well, as a fledgling whatever-I-am , this is all fascinating to me. I do agree that it is a shame that anyone feels excluded by the title of the board. The only suggestion so far that doesn't seem to have really bothered anyone is doing as a previous poster suggested and just adding (LGBTQ) to the title.

 

[NYBlue1]

wow...this thread is getting ugly, I dont think its anybodies intent to be that way but I think , again my opinion , this is a great example of how our community (LGBT)cant get it together and accomplish our goals of being accepted in our country as equals to the hetero community.

There are so many statements that have made me sad, honestly runined my day, discrimination within our community is a big factor of holding us back.

No one group within our community is any better or more normal than any other, think people.

I totally dont mean this post to rip on any one poster here, please dont take this as any type of aggression toward any of you. Just want you all to think, we are defeating ourselves, untill we all come together, we will never get to where we all want to be.

Im sorry this is happening OP...

Bless you all, I mean that

 

[bubie2.5]

I can see where the OP his coming from. After being a DIS’er for so many years I was so happy to see a board with the word “lesbian” on its title that I never realized about the missing T and B in the title.

I don’t see a problem with a “GLTB at Disney” change name. After all, the people that are willing to write here already know the meaning of those letters; and those who don’t will figure it out as soon as they see the threads here.

I selfishly didn’t even saw it as an issue, because my needs had being met, but I’m sure that for our T and B friends that struggle with us every day in a search for equality those two letters DO matter. Thanks OP for bringing up a subject that had no even entered my mind.

 

[OrlandoMike]

Everyone, please take time to think before you post.

First of all, we have always welcomed everyone over here, Gay, Bi, Trans, Straight. All we ask is that you play nice.

Tyler, you bring up a valid point. I don't think anyone intentionally did anything to leave a particular part of our group out of the name, it was just a decision on what to call the board.

I think that ANY name change is not to be taken lightly ... and must be carefully considered.. My reasoning for that abundance of caution is simply because of how people have found us over here in the past to ask questions. Parents of kids who are coming out, kids who are coming out, friends and family, etc. Not all of these people know what GLBT FTM MTF stand for, and would probably just zip right past us if that was our title. I think it's most important for our name to be short, simple and easy to find for those who come over here asking for advice

But that isn't to say that some change is not possible. Just that it must be approached with caution and with input from everyone.

Until such time as the moderators and webmasters have had the opportunity to review and consider this request, I remind everyone to play nice. We all come from different backgrounds and different personal histories. We all need to be a little more understanding of things that may be new to our understanding. I will get with Rick and Viki to see how we can best move forward from this point.

Mike

 

[PghLybrt]

Sorry I left the discussion last night I was busy packing for Olivia……

Anyway I actually think this discussion is quite tame. It is an important issue that our community needs to talk about and yes sometimes it is going to hurt. Even though it is going to I think that means there is even more reason to discuss it and not ignore it.


We all have differing opinions on this, that does not make any of them wrong, just different. I myself think that being an FTM does not mean you automatically pass as male. Bathrooms are still a dangerous place (hell my girlfriend who identifies as a **** was pulled out and beaten by an angry father at a Target bathroom….long story and way off topic) . I don’t think we can simply dismiss that all experiences are going to be the same simply because we are all not straight.

I do think our community does a bad job at embracing diversity that is different.

Tyler, I am with you and if you ever want to chat just pm me and I will listen.