Child pulled into water by alligator near Grand Floridian

[luv disney]

The reports never said he was IN the water -- he was on the waters edge on the beach. And if signs say "no swimming", nowhere would a person think that meant don't be on the beach either or touch the water! It's ridiculous to think the parents were at fault in this situation. We have walked that beach dozens of times between the two resorts. An alligator could have very well been hiding in the brush or run at us from the beach. They have been known to drag their pray back into the water. So if some of the PPs comments were to be taken at heart, then Disney would have to close the whole area to even pedestrian traffic! You don't have to be IN the water to be attached by a gator. Just as it has been proven recently that you don't have to be out in the water to get attacked by a shark as they are now coming into shallower waters!

Actually, the news reports state that he was wading in about a foot of water when he was dragged the rest of the way in.

 

[Opie100]

You just made my point.
I can't believe some would differentiate between the two.
That's like saying if you're going straight down the highway with the cruise control on you're not driving.

There is clearly a difference between swimming and standing in a foot of water.

 

[Daddy Mack]

You know who sees a difference between swimming and wading? Disney -- who allowed a practice of children playing in the edge of the water to go on for years.

People say that the parents are stupid because everyone knows about alligators in Florida. If true, how stupid is the company that created this:

[GALLERY=]

[/GALLERY]

 

[michelleiada]

I wish people would stop assigning blame! This is a horrific and tragic event. Obviously the thought never entered the parents mind that something so unthinkable could happen. I'm a good, intelligent, law abiding, rule following person. However, this could have happened to me. I would not swim in the lakes or go in the water at Disney...I'm aware of the alligators and have seen them...but you can't foresee or predict every possible scenario in life. Perhaps their judgement here was not perfect...but they certainly are not to blame. It was an accident...they happen to the best of us. These parents did not realize the possible danger their child was in or I'm sure he/she would not have been near the water. It's terrible! Horrible and heartbreaking! My deepest heartfelt sympathies go out to this poor family as they try to come to terms with this tragedy. Im so saddened by this and the other terrible events that occurred in Orlando this week.

 

[wilkeliza]

This tragedy does remind me how crazy lucky I must have been growing up or how gators just don't usually bother people. We use to go to a lake every single year that had massive gator warning signs. We still swam in the water and never had any issue. Our family had been going for years before I was even born and still go and I believe the owners told us they just keep the alligators well fed and always in a specific area of the lake that people don't have easy access to in order to try and keep visitors safe but that yes gators did call the waters home.

 

[Tammy296]

I feel bad for everyone. The family, Disney employees, vacationers there now, the search parties, the organization as a whole, us. My heart breaks. I bet there is a lot of money being spent right now in the search and care of parties, grounds. Orlando is seeing some sad days lately. I mean Oh my Gosh - what's up with that???

I am sure the family will receive a lot of help from people to help them through this tough time.

I do not suspect this story will be forgotten anytime soon. Many lives will most likely be altered from this no matter the outcome. This will raise awareness for everyone.

I bet the family never expected anything like this to happen on their vacation. Not many would. Many think Disney is the perfect place. It is still a place and a vacation. Vacationing anywhere comes with risks. Living in my house comes with risks. As a vacationer myself, I make a choice as a person -- Whenever I go on a cruise or a vacation anywhere, I do my due diligence. It is my responsibility as a vacationer to become aware and as a person I am lucky my parents exposed me to dangers and a true sense of imperfection. I am not in any way entitled or led to believe that any place or person is perfect. I always get in my car or fly on a plane or cross the road expecting the risk that comes with it. If I go swimming anywhere I know there are still risks - with or without signs. I could go swimming and drown due to crippling cramps even though I am an excellent swimmer. Children have been known to drown in the smallest amounts of water. There are risks to anything in life. And choices. And CHANCE. Please make no assumptions by my statements above or below. Chance of dangers causing death, dismemberment are inevitable anywhere. This situation for all is horrible.

Animals are animals and can act unpredictably. Being from Nebraska, I wonder how many farms are near the area where they live? Nebraska may not have alligators but they do have animals. There are animals everywhere and certainly near every body of water in the world. Living organisms. Good ones, bad ones but nevertheless unpredictable. There are no perfect spots in the world and risks everywhere with everything. There are no perfect animals. No perfect people. No perfect circumstances. We should never feign intelligence or share ignorance in making a conscious decision for the safety of ourselves or our families. I will not assume anything about the family or the people on our forum or the news.

Signs, notices, small print all exist for a reason. We drive the roads with signs all over the place. Do we analyze yield signs? Do you try to guess what can happen if those signs are ignored or unreasoned? The law says we follow them or we run another risk of getting stopped by police not just putting our safety and the safety of others at risk. Any chance or half truths in following, well, it's your life, your decision and it's still a chance anything can happen. Either way, no matter. I am sure there is not one person in the world that wanted this to happen. However, the results will nevertheless be the same.

We were just at WDW in March and was on the beach at the Poly overlooking the lagoon. I kept my kids AWAY from that water. To me when I saw: --> No swimming = stay away from the water. Period. That doesn't mean an alligator couldn't have come up on the beach in a flash. We took caution to even be in that vicinity with the accepted responsibility and risk assumed. When the pool at our resort closed I read the sign and kept my children out of that water too. I am not perfect by any means but I've watched the movies, TV, done plenty of reading, my due diligence and my own intelligence and lack of ignorance along with my raised awareness to make my own decisions for me and my family. I listen to my gut. I could make a mistake. At any time of the day. I could be killed tomorrow and I pray that doesn't happen for my kids sakes. Chance creeps. People who need an excuse or reasoning in order to do or not do things (not necessarily those parents I am talking about in general) - what does that tell us? Common sense is not so common anymore I am fast learning. We have the internet available to us for research before travelling. I won't be one to assume anything here. That is not what my post should be doing. Just try to state obvious facts, my own reasoning, leading to my own opinions. Thankfully this forum exists for the purposes of having an opinion and stating facts.

I am blaming no one. Especially not the father. Or the mother. And not Disney. I cannot fathom having to try saving your child from the mouth of an alligator. Or watching this unfold. I cannot imagine how Disney employees are strong enough to help those parents right now. It must be very difficult all the way around. I just feel bad for the situation in entirety. Very sad day for all and I cannot even imagine how people could or could not assume something like this could / count not happen given the world is full of educated individuals and very rich organizations. Go figure. Think about it.

What will people learn from this?

No doubt, this will turn into changes. Some good perhaps. Some bad perhaps. Depending upon the parents, Disney may or may not face a lawsuit (after all, anyone can sue for absolutely any reason these days...) but I am sure Disney will implement some changes whether they are sued or not. Changes may be good or bad. Changes inevitably could raise prices (most likely). IMHO, it will never see court so those that mentioned it, I feel it is doubtful. Disney would most likely settle. I hope the family does not decide to sue.

Will Disney come out with a new risk assumption clause before people visit WDW? What changes will be implemented? That is definitely a good topic for this site. Today I can only send my condolences to everyone in the world for this sad event. (yes I very much include the family)

Remember when the boy drowned at Pop Century a few years ago? Now when you go to Pop Century (or any of the resorts) I notice there is GREATER security now. A fence. I literally saw lifeguards patrolling the pools in very short pacing distances scouting every inch even when no one was swimming and they were not just sitting around. Multiple lifeguards. There are no doubt high costs associated with changes. I've seen a lot since my first visit to Disney in '97.

Liability is a tough thing for a business and the people who utilize that business. No one won or will win here.

Changes will come....for everyone.

 

[LisaS]

I'm blown away that some are trying to distinguish "no swimming" from "no wading".
Really??

MG

But there is a difference. "No swimming" implies not to submerge yourself in the water or venture out far from the shore. It doesn't suggest, to me at least, that you cannot and should not wade in up to your ankles.

I suspect that when Disney put up those signs, the gator population was less of an issue and their real concern was the water quality and boat traffic. Otherwise the signs would have said "Stay out of the water" rather than "No swimming".

 

[luv disney]

Alligator population is too high? Get rid of the alligators? You all can't be serious. Signs were ignored that "beach is closed" and "no swimming" and it's the gators fault?!? This is FL. Gators live here, long before Disney did. We have to be smart and respectful of them while in their territory. Same as with any other wild animal.

I agree with you fully! Not being from the South, I educated myself and my family on the different wildlife that lives there and the possible dangers before our trip! Of course this is horrific and I am saddened, but common sense and educating ourselves always told me during our many trips to WDW not go near the water with our kids.

 

[boltjames]

Really, what's the difference?? How fast you flap your arms?
Is the traveling public that stupid they need this clarification?

MG

First off, I hope they ban you for your insensitivity.

Next, I'm an extremely intelligent individual and have been to DW no less than 20 times and never, not once, did I think there might be a 7 foot alligator in a man-made lagoon that could harm my children. And when I see a sign that says "no swimming", that means I shouldn't jump in and swim; it doesn't mean I can't stick my toes in the water. On a beach. At a family resort. Next to a playground.

 

[dixiegirl]

But there is a difference. "No swimming" implies not to submerge yourself in the water or venture out far from the shore. It doesn't suggest, to me at least, that you cannot and should not wade in up to your ankles.

I suspect that when Disney put up those signs, the gator population was less of an issue and their real concern was the water quality and boat traffic. Otherwise the signs would have said "Stay out of the water" rather than "No swimming".

And from the other end of things, to me, if it says "No Swimming" or anything in the like, I'm not going near the water. I don't need to be told the specifics as to why - I make the assumption that the sign is there for a reason and there is no grey area. It's all subjective.

 

[Jadyreen1282]

First off, I hope they ban you for your insensitivity.

This is a forum. All opinions important and welcomed.

 

[juliebee]

When we were at the Poly a few years ago, we were told by the club level check-in desk to not go into the water due to bad algae. No mention of alligators. And being from Oregon, it honestly never crossed my mind. This family was from Nebraska, so I imagine their gator awareness was similar to mine.

 

[Uncleromulus]

And from the other end of things, to me, if it says "No Swimming" or anything in the like, I'm not going near the water. I don't need to be told the specifics as to why - I make the assumption that the sign is there for a reason and there is no grey area. It's all subjective.

And that is the common sense view. When is it "swimming" and not "wading"?? When you are doing a backstroke?? OR the water up to your neck?? These word games won't do--no swimming clearly means do not get in the water!!!

 

[Uncleromulus]

When we were at the Poly a few years ago, we were told by the club level check-in desk to not go into the water due to bad algae. No mention of alligators. And being from Oregon, it honestly never crossed my mind. This family was from Nebraska, so I imagine their gator awareness was similar to mine.

Key phrase--Don't go into the water!!!

 

[boltjames]

I have read the whole thread. My thoughts:

This is a tragedy caused by an unfortunate Accident. My prayers are with this family.

Neither the family nor Disney are to blame. It was an Accident

This was an accident because Disney took a soft approach on warning the public on the risks involved. Had they used a sign like the one above, this never happens.

"No Swimming" could mean dozens of things like no lifeguard available, we don't want you disturbing a habitat, water isn't fresh. If there is a massive danger like a man-killing gator that's the real issue, then tell people. A 2 year old leaves a playground, walks 10 yards to dip his toes, parents aren't worried, why? Because the signage didn't warn people of the danger.

 

[BabyFu18]

I'm sure soon the signs will be replaced to be more clear for those who need clarification, but to me "no swimming" means stay away from the water. I've seen people letting their children sit and build sandcastle near the water, or getting bucks of water to bring back to the sand, or splash around in the shallow water all of those things I know better than to do but if you try to tell another adult that the water isn't safe and their children shouldn't be playing in it they want to get an attitude and ignore the warning because they know what's best for their child. Maybe that's not every parent, but I know enough to make sure I'm educated about places I go and all I can do is hope others are as well.

What happened was tragic, my heartbbreaks for that family I'm praying for them and their little boy. It's so sad and honestly people go to Disney and they are in vacation mode and you just never think something tragic could happen to you or someone you love and that makes it all the more devastating.

Edit: That picture above made me think of something, when we were staying at SOG (it's been a few years) I thought they had a sign up near the water that said something about allagators were in the water/area. I remember because we were walking from SOG over to the POly for breakfast one morning and my dad pointed out what he thought looked like a gator and I remember my mom saying yes she saw a sign that mentioned to be aware that there were allagators in the water. If SOG has signage to point that out, Disney resorts should too and hopefully they will have that type of signage up at some point soon.

 

[RedSox68]

No one has to be in the water to be attacked. Even if they were sitting on the water's edge the gator could have run up and snatched that baby. There are reports all the time of gators showing up on golf courses and people's houses -- several yards from any water! PPs who have pointed their fingers at the parents for "wading" in the water and saying they should have known better -- really? I would NEVER expect a gator on a beach between two Disney resorts to attack my child. It just is not something I would have envisioned -- Florida or not! Shame on all of you for dissing the parents.

 

[Uncleromulus]

I don't have a picture, but it's a sign of a swimmer in a circle with a line through it, and above that it says "No Swimming".

Which to anyone with any sense would mean do not get in the water---

 

[Opie100]

And that is the common sense view. When is it "swimming" and not "wading"?? When you are doing a backstroke?? OR the water up to your neck?? These word games won't do--no swimming clearly means do not get in the water!!!

SWIMMING

WADING

I would not get in the water with either warning, but there is a pretty obvious difference. It's worth noting that people have been wading in those waters off-and-on for decades and there has been no issue like this AFAIK.

 

[wilkeliza]

This was an accident because Disney took a soft approach on warning the public on the risks involved. Had they used a sign like the one above, this never happens.

"No Swimming" could mean dozens of things like no lifeguard available, we don't want you disturbing a habitat, water isn't fresh. If there is a massive danger like a man-killing gator that's the real issue, then tell people. A 2 year old leaves a playground, walks 10 yards to dip his toes, parents aren't worried, why? Because the signage didn't warn people of the danger.

Even these signs may not have prevented it. Sometimes life happens. Signs are only there to try and remove liability. A gator doesn't see a sign about gators in the lake and suddenly decide he doesn't want to eat that kid on the shore.