Covid And The Rest of Us

[disneyholic family]

Well in between our Covid mess (figures have finally been dropping from 13K to 11k to 9K yesterday) we are in a 'political crisis.
I won't go into the specifics too much, but 26K families have been systematically hurt by the tax-system for several years and therefore the government by saying they were committing fraud, in most cases that was not true. People have lost houses over this, marriages broke up because of this, children couldn't go on school trips or have new clothes etc. So major major major impact. Finally after two years of debating and investigating the government made huge mistakes. The people involved will get compensated and get the money back they are entitled to, however, can our government stay on?

Our next election is coming up in March, we are in a major health crisis... And while this whole debacle got a lot of media coverage, with all the other issues in the world, it's not top of mind for the majority of the country. Yes, of course for the 26K families and their loved ones who have gone through this. Would it do the country any good if our government leaves now and leave us in between everything till March next year?

you can give money back, but how do you put families back together? how awful!!

 

[elphaba91]

@elphaba91 quick question. Facebook keeps pushing me Jimmy Rees videos about Australia. Is his portrayal of the different moods in the different states accurate?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2096234147180800

(And is the rest of Australia really that mean to Tasmania ;-) )

Lol that is RIDICULOUSLY accurate! The NSW Premier is complaining that the other states are causing “suffering” to NSW residents by closing borders. Victorians think NSW aren’t doing enough to stamp out the cases (and don’t want to go into another lockdown thank you very much!). The Queensland Premier has been very keen to “slam the borders shut” (her words) the entire pandemic and a few weeks ago refused to even discuss the issue with her NSW counterpart (and instead just sent a gloating text message about the football!). WA would really like to be a separate country and their Premier is so keen to keep any cases out that he refused to go to a meeting in Canberra because the SA Premier would be there and his state had recorded a handful of cases a couple of weeks earlier. The NT has been largely unscathed and have spent most of the year living normally; their “hotel quarantine” is a disused workers camp where people can still go outside and even use the swimming pool. Adelaide is a very quiet (but beautiful!) city. And yeah, we do kind of forget about Tasmania!

Funny though that you said that Jimmy’s videos are good “when you need a giggle” as most Aussies would know him as ‘Jimmy Giggle’ from the kids’ TV show ‘Giggle and Hoot’ where he started his career!

 

[disneyholic family]

@elphaba91 quick question. Facebook keeps pushing me Jimmy Rees videos about Australia. Is his portrayal of the different moods in the different states accurate?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2096234147180800

(And is the rest of Australia really that mean to Tasmania ;-) )

this is hilarious!!!

.

 

[Aladora]

I do know that you can still get chicken pox even though you had the vaccine. I worked at a daycare for many years and we had at least 1 student that had the vaccine that did get the chicken pox. It is very very mild though if you get it.

A little late to the party but my son is one of those who had the chicken pox vaccine and still got cp. It was a REALLY mild case though and he was back at school within a couple of weeks.

 

[godisney14]

I need to find more information about this - pronto. I've heard this mentioned very superficially before and I'm beside myself. I have never, ever, ever in my life heard it said of any vaccine that you will still contract the disease and be able to transmit it. What is it about this vaccine or virus? Are they all like that and if so, why do so few people know it.

Ummm....

I don’t mean this in a bad way, but maybe you should read up on how vaccines are made and how they work invivo (inside a living organisms).

Vaccines are researched to prevent diseases—not infections. Very, very big distinction. If researchers find out that a vaccine can also prevent infection, then great! But that wasn’t the objective.
In simpler terms, vaccines are made to help your body fight off the bad guy. It’s not designed to prevent the bad guy from coming at you. This isn’t some kind of Stars Wars like force field that gets applied around your body.

While your body is fighting off the infecting agent, you can still transmit that agent (virus) to others just as easily as someone without vaccination.

Clinical trials have been set up to see whether people become less sick with the vaccine. And that’s where the 95% effectiveness for the COVID-19 vaccine comes from.

In order to determine whether a vaccine can prevent an infection, you would need a human challenge trial. Literally infecting patients with the disease-causing agent. These types of trials have been very rare in the history of medicine for reasons you can imagine. Tamiflu being one of them.


So, people, please continue to social distance and wear masks just as you have been doing even after getting the vaccine.
At 95% effectiveness, if 20 million people gets the vaccine, 5% of them, equal to 1 million people, may have a false sense of security of protection. And those 20 million people can still possibly infect others without knowing.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

FWIW on the most recent UK strain, which I just learned is being named SARS-CoV-2 VUI 202012/01, they do actually think it has made its presence known in the U.S. likely around mid-November. BUT genome sequencing has not been done yet for this particular strain so while they are going with the assumption it's already here there is not scientific evidence as of yet.

 

[godisney14]

I do know that you can still get chicken pox even though you had the vaccine. I worked at a daycare for many years and we had at least 1 student that had the vaccine that did get the chicken pox. It is very very mild though if you get it.

Varicella vaccine is only close to 100% effective at preventing serious illness. It’s 80% effective at stopping any illness. So, yes, many people can still get sick from chickenpox, but mostly mild.

 

[ronandannette]

Ummm....

I don’t mean this in a bad way, but maybe you should read up on how vaccines are made and how they work invivo (inside a living organisms).

Vaccines are researched to prevent diseases—not infections. Very, very big distinction. If researchers find out that a vaccine can also prevent infection, then great! But that wasn’t the objective.
In simpler terms, vaccines are made to help your body fight off the bad guy. It’s not designed to prevent the bad guy from coming at you. This isn’t some kind of Stars Wars like force field that gets applied around your body.

While your body is fighting off the infecting agent, you can still transmit that agent (virus) to others just as easily as someone without vaccination.

Clinical trials have been set up to see whether people become less sick with the vaccine. And that’s where the 95% effectiveness for the COVID-19 vaccine comes from.

In order to determine whether a vaccine can prevent an infection, you would need a human challenge trial. Literally infecting patients with the disease-causing agent. These types of trials have been very rare in the history of medicine for reasons you can imagine. Tamiflu being one of them.


So, people, please continue to social distance and wear masks just as you have been doing even after getting the vaccine.
At 95% effectiveness, if 20 million people gets the vaccine, 5% of them, equal to 1 million people, may have a false sense of security of protection. And those 20 million people can still possibly infect others without knowing.

A reasonable suggestion - I shall do so. I doubt very many laymen make a distinction in their own thinking between disease and infection. My comments were based on the fact that although I have had every possible vaccine recommended since childhood, never once was it ever mentioned that vaccines aren't intended to prevent infection. That a vaccine may be only a certain-percentage effective? Yes, but intuitively that meant that x% of people would contract the disease which would run it's normal course, not that people would still contract it asymptomatically. As for masking/isolating/distancing after vaccination, well, at some point we need to be able to stop and get off. Here's hoping that day comes soon.

And yes, I understand challenge-trials. Had it been an option I would have happily volunteered for one for the Covid vaccine but Canada's vaccine development plan went completely awry and there were no trials of any kind done here.

 

[godisney14]

A reasonable suggestion - I shall do so. I doubt very many laymen make a distinction in their own thinking between disease and infection. My comments were based on the fact that although I have had every possible vaccine recommended since childhood, never once was it ever mentioned that vaccines aren't intended to prevent infection. That a vaccine may be only a certain-percentage effective? Yes, but intuitively that meant that x% of people would contract the disease which would run it's normal course, not that people would still contract it asymptomatically.
As for masking/isolating/distancing after vaccination, well, at some point we need to be able to stop and get off. Here's hoping that day comes soon.

And yes, I understand challenge-trials. Had it been an option I would have happily volunteered for one for the Covid vaccine but Canada's vaccine development plan went completely awry and there were no trials of any kind done here.

I’m sure there are many that think that way intuitively. But, if you read into it, the trial preliminary results were about how effective it was in preventing serious illness. Not about how effective it is in preventing disease transmission. I don’t remember any news outlet mentioning anything about how it prevents the virus from being transmitted 95% of the time.

A vaccine’s effectiveness is only measured by how a clinical trial is designed. If the trials, as in this case, was to show that the vaccines prevent severe symptoms, then it’s false to say that people can still contract asymptomatically. Naturally, people with a vaccine may still get sick, just not very sick.

Nor are there any such trials in the US. It’s not about whether there is a good or bad vaccine development plan in place. As I mentioned, it’s an ethical reason.

 

[Heather07438]

Ummm....

I don’t mean this in a bad way, but maybe you should read up on how vaccines are made and how they work invivo (inside a living organisms).

Vaccines are researched to prevent diseases—not infections. Very, very big distinction. If researchers find out that a vaccine can also prevent infection, then great! But that wasn’t the objective.
In simpler terms, vaccines are made to help your body fight off the bad guy. It’s not designed to prevent the bad guy from coming at you. This isn’t some kind of Stars Wars like force field that gets applied around your body.

While your body is fighting off the infecting agent, you can still transmit that agent (virus) to others just as easily as someone without vaccination.

Clinical trials have been set up to see whether people become less sick with the vaccine. And that’s where the 95% effectiveness for the COVID-19 vaccine comes from.

In order to determine whether a vaccine can prevent an infection, you would need a human challenge trial. Literally infecting patients with the disease-causing agent. These types of trials have been very rare in the history of medicine for reasons you can imagine. Tamiflu being one of them.


So, people, please continue to social distance and wear masks just as you have been doing even after getting the vaccine.
At 95% effectiveness, if 20 million people gets the vaccine, 5% of them, equal to 1 million people, may have a false sense of security of protection. And those 20 million people can still possibly infect others without knowing.

I thought they'd be able to get data about neutralizing effect without human challenge trials just because how wide scale this virus is and would be a focus due to importance in our particular situation. There would be plenty of opportunity to study it and alot of interest to do so. There must be some available parameters (without needing human challenge trials) to measure how infectious vaccinated are to those not immunized. From different things I've come across over the past months, it sounded like this was the intention. Is there no way outside human challenge trials to accomplish this?

 

[godisney14]

I thought they'd be able to get data about neutralizing effect without human trials just because how wide scale this virus is and would be a focus due to importance in our particular situation. There would be plenty of opportunity to study it and alot of interest to do so. There must be some available parameters (without needing human trials) to measure how infectious vaccinated are to those not immunized. From different things I've come across over the past months, it sounded like this was the intention. Is there no way outside human trials to accomplish this?

You may be able to get a general idea (but very inconclusive) from existing information. Unless the study endpoints specifically are studying for it, there’s really no sure fire way to know. This is why the AZ/Oxford half-dose vaccine regimen cannot be approved because the study endpoint wasn’t designed for that. And, yes, you need human subjects to study the effects on humans.

 

[Heather07438]

You may be able to get a general idea (but very inconclusive) from existing information. Unless the study endpoints specifically are studying for it, there’s really no sure fire way to know. This is why the AZ/Oxford half-dose vaccine regimen cannot be approved because the study endpoint wasn’t designed for that. And, yes, you need human subjects to study the effects on humans.

Oops, I meant to say human challenge trials.

 

[godisney14]

Well.....

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-heart-acute-myocarditis-covid-19/4019276001/
As some had thought, COVID-19 may be responsible for the Florida basketball player’s on-court collapse. He got the disease in the summer, mind you. But his condition, even with ongoing physicals and testing didn’t show up until now.
Yes, I suppose some could say he’s just one of tens of thousands of athletes. Luckily, there were medical staff on the sidelines. Most of us, if not all of us, won’t have that kind of support.

And reports of a new South African strain that was discovered along with the recently discovered strain already in the UK. More travel restrictions, this time of flights from South Africa. It would be devastating to the African nations if COVID spreads there.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a...cted-in-the-u-k-from-south-africa-11608743128

Time for the US to place broader international travel restrictions IMO. Might be late, but better than continuous inflow.

 

[disneyholic family]

Well.....

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-heart-acute-myocarditis-covid-19/4019276001/
As some had thought, COVID-19 may be responsible for the Florida basketball player’s on-court collapse. He got the disease in the summer, mind you. But his condition, even with ongoing physicals and testing didn’t show up until now.
Yes, I suppose some could say he’s just one of tens of thousands of athletes. Luckily, there were medical staff on the sidelines. Most of us, if not all of us, won’t have that kind of support.

And reports of a new South African strain that was discovered along with the recently discovered strain already in the UK. More travel restrictions, this time of flights from South Africa. It would be devastating to the African nations if COVID spreads there.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a...cted-in-the-u-k-from-south-africa-11608743128

Time for the US to place broader international travel restrictions IMO. Might be late, but better than continuous inflow.

myocarditis is a complication that can come from many viruses, including the flu... not just covid.
it can be deadly to some, can cause permanent damage to the hearts of some of those who survive, while others recover completely without permanent damage.

 

[godisney14]

myocarditis is a complication that can come from many viruses, including the flu... not just covid.
it can be deadly to some, can cause permanent damage to the hearts of some of those who survive, while others recover completely without permanent damage.

Yes. Obviously. And, so...?
Are you suggesting it could be from “the flu”?
I wrote that it (coronavirus) may be the culprit based as do the reports.

 

[ronandannette]

Yes. Obviously. And, so...?
Are you suggesting it could be from “the flu”?
I wrote that it (coronavirus) may be the culprit based as do the reports.

I don't think that's what she was implying at all. More just clarifying that this disorder is not a new or exclusively Covid-related threat.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes. Obviously. And, so...?
Are you suggesting it could be from “the flu”?
I wrote that it (coronavirus) may be the culprit based as do the reports.

I guess I missed if we were even talking about the basketball player here on this thread? Were we? I've lost track TBH and my bad if we were

I think the poster probably responded that way because it sorta is like making a connection to COVID to which that cannot be proven. Even in the article it says: "While Johnson’s acute myocarditis can’t be definitively linked to his COVID diagnosis, it could prompt the SEC and other conferences to further test athletes who have contracted the virus on concern the inflammation could develop later."

It's not a bad thing that it could lead to more testing. The article even says: "There does seem to be more cases or cardiac effects from this virus than maybe we have seen from others, although, we are looking a lot more closely than we have in the past. I think all of us are cautious about it.” So is it just that they are becoming much more aware or that there's more prevalent issues with COVID? IDK it's not known. We honestly hear a lot about athletes and undiagnosed heart conditions. In a way COVID could prompt more vigilance in this.

FWIW a friend of ours developed peripartum myocarditis during her first pregnancy and it was quite scary for her. She was initially NOT medically cleared to have more children but a few years later her health was to the point where she could and now they have 3 children total. During her first pregnancy it nearly killed her and she had to be on a very strict diet to help.

 

[NFLDERS]

myocarditis is a complication that can come from many viruses, including the flu... not just covid.
it can be deadly to some, can cause permanent damage to the hearts of some of those who survive, while others recover completely without permanent damage.

Personally I've found this concerning. A while back my dsil was very ill. Covid tested and result was a Negative. She had to isolate from my db for 14 days.

Then about the end of the isolation he gets sick, and tests Negative. They go into a 2nd isolation.

Now, here is where it gets interesting or not, dsil had heart concerns from inflammation that developed (no prior heart ailment) she is waiting further tests, while wearing a heart monitor.

Now db has developed inflammation but his symptoms prompted more aggressive tests. He is waiting for those results. Also, he has had no heart ailment prior to all this happening either.

I'm not even sure what to think anymore except to say, Stay safe.

 

[ronandannette]

So here we are, almost at Christmas. Here in Alberta we have had PSA's running practically non-stop on tv and radio as well as billboards around the cities repeating the current restrictions. No social visits over the holidays; zero contact with anyone outside your household unless it's under one of the very few exempted categories. {{sigh}} We had a small sliver of hope there would be a temporary easing, which would have come as a welcome surprise. I guess at least it's good that we've known the limitations for weeks and have had a chance to get "our heads in the game" and make appropriate plans. Mostly everyone I know is lamenting quite loudly but I've not heard of anyone planning to act in defiance of the regulations. God bless us every one.

In other news, the Moderna vaccine has shipped to Canada with over 100,000 doses to arrive. It is far easier to manage, temperature wise, and will be sent immediately to remote northern communities in the Territories, First Nations reserves and to nursing homes to be given to our most vulnerable. Yay!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In other news, the Moderna vaccine has shipped to Canada with over 100,000 doses to arrive. It is far easier to manage, temperature wise, and will be sent immediately to remote northern communities in the Territories, First Nations reserves and to nursing homes to be given to our most vulnerable. Yay!

Oh this is soooo good to hear