Disney paying a “living wage”. Sigh…

[jscottnc]

Was listening to the show when the living wage topic was brought up, again. I think it was Ryno who said that everyone who works a 40 hour work week should be able to afford to live. It was also mentioned that cast members are worried about being able to afford essential items like food. I have a few thoughts that are easier to put in bullet points. Curious to see what you all think.

• If one of my kids decided to be a frontline cast member, I would let them know that Disney is most likely not going to bend to your will when it comes to compensation. If you want to buy a house, car, save for retirement and pay your bills, you need to reconsider working at Disney. You need to change (different job, different college degree, etc.), instead of expecting Disney to change. Several people on the podcast were reminiscing about how they could barely afford to eat when they were cast members, but they made personal changes and now work for Pete. That’s a great example of growing in your career and increasing your income.
• One of the comments on the podcast was that wages should be increased due to inflation. Totally understand that, but that is why inflation is such a huge problem. Wages do not increase fast enough to keep pace. And if wages do increase, inflation can increase even faster. A much better solution is for our lawmakers to do what it takes to reduce inflation. Not sure they have the stones to do that, but that is a topic for another time.
• From listening to the show it sounds you have to choose between making more money elsewhere or working at Disney World. Disney is only going to raise wages when smart, hard working people no longer want to work there.
• It saddens me that cast members are worried about paying for essentials. The majority of them are super talented and could be making more money doing something else.
• The number 1 goal of a publicly traded company is to increase shareholder wealth. Paying people more because of inflation is not normally a high priority. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, just the way it is. I hope cast members understand that.
• if you are a cast member having trouble paying for essentials and you are reading this, consider a career change. See whats out there. Employers like seeing Disney on a resume (No matter what your job was).

On the whole I agree with most of your points. However, this time increased wages is NOT the primary driver of inflation; corporate profits contributed over 50% to the rise in prices. Disney will continue this trend until they have to change i.e. revenues fall or parks close because guests and/or cast members stay away. Bob Chapek has said as much publicly (though not as plainly as I have).

 

[rotlex]

I totally get the frustration with this, but, let's be honest. A job as a ride operator or quick service food position at a theme park is not designed to be a career. These types of jobs are stepping stones to something better within the organization or until you find a real job. Sure, certain roles deserve more, but exactly how much is someone expected to pay the person hitting the go button on Dumbo? Now, entertainment, food service in a real restaurant, boat captains etc. are a different story. These are skilled jobs.

 

[71 Truck]

The bolded is the whole point. NO one should have to work a second job or work overtime JUST to make ends meet. People need to be able to LIVE and life is a balance. Overwork leads to stress, poor health, and a lot of problems that cost society over the long run rather than being helpful to society.

A "living wage" for a SPECIFIC AREA (it will vary) should mean that you make enough to be able to afford housing, food, and clothing.

Let's just look at housing. Let's look at RENTAL HOUSING because that is what the federal government uses as a gauge for affordability in an area.

In Orlando, the average 1 bedroom apartment costs $1700. Landlords will require that you make 3 times the income to be approved. That is $5100 gross.

That breaks down to $29.42/hr to live alone.

What about roommates? Well, if you rent a 2 bedroom apartment with a roommate, you'd each need to make around $19/hr. Is WDW paying that much? Nope. They are not.

What about Disneyland?

Average rent for a 1br apartment in all of Orange County is $2095. To live alone, a livable wage is $36.25/hr.

To share a 2 bedroom apartment ($2700 average price) would require each person to make $25.31.

Keep in mind, this is using a 40 hour (full time) work week.

Disney is not paying anywhere near these wages in CA, certainly. They are not providing a living wage.

What they are paying is not a living wage ANYWHERE in the US.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2021-08-06/report-15-hourly-wage-isnt-livable-anywhere-in-the-us#:~:text=Despite making more than double,food, rent and health care.&text=By Braeden Waddell-,Aug.,2021, at 5:02 p.m.

Keep in mind, this article was written over a year ago. Things have only gotten worse, cost wise.

"Living wage" is not some arbitrary number. It's a very real economic calculation.

So what the article is saying, that you should pay your employee x dollars an hour not because of what they are capable of in as far as education weather it be collage or trade school but because of what it cost to live in a certain area?

People have always worked over time or a second job to make ends meet. If people want to make more per hour so they don't have to work over time or a second job then they should improve their marketable skills. Paying an untrained entry level employee $29 plus dollars an hour to start is something most companies can't afford.

People choose to work for Disney. Before they are hired they are told what the wages will be. It's their choice.

Like my self at some point you decide to move on to be able to make more money.

 

[Fiji271]

Oof so many poor hot takes in the OP. I work for a huge publicly traded global company making record profits and you know what they do with them? Give raises. Give larger bonuses to all staff (not just executives). Literally share the wealth because they understand that a happy well-compensated workforce increases productivity and attracts/retains top talent. Poor performers are weeded out more easily because burnout around compensation isn’t a factor.

Disney is not a mom and pop operation. They can afford it. There are many reasons why someone working in a customer-facing hospitality- or service-industry job can’t or won’t move into a more traditional higher-earning position - scheduling flexibility, mental health, education and the outrageous costs of secondary degrees. Would you really say to their faces that they don’t work hard? They shouldn’t be punished financially for doing their jobs well just because they’re a more common skill set.

Stop normalizing corporate greed. Put pressure on these CEOs and Board Directors to do right by the people who make their money for them.

I’m curious to know what you think are my other poor hot takes.

The company you work for obviously thinks passing profits on to the employees is a good strategy for increasing shareholder wealth. Disney does not. A company that passes profits on to workers is also more likely to have lay offs when they are losing money. I have worked in finance for almost 3 decades and have seen that happen more than once.

You say that pressure needs to be put on CEOs. Companies that pass profits on to workers are what will put pressure on other companies. Not people like me yelling at Disney to pay their workers more.

I really don’t hear people normalizing corporate greed. The vast majority are against that. The entire point of my post is to encourage people who are getting screwed over to make a change instead expecting a large company to change.

 

[Boski]

The company you work for obviously thinks passing profits on to the employees is a good strategy for increasing shareholder wealth. Disney does not. A company that passes profits on to workers is also more likely to have lay offs when they are losing money. I have worked in finance for almost 3 decades and have seen that happen more than once.

Any company losing money is likely to make staffing cuts, regardless of where the profits go.

 

[piccolopat]

The living wage issue cannot be solved until someone defines what it really means. Others mentioned it should cover the cost of housing, food, clothing and other basic necessities. The most expensive of these is typically housing. Does that mean the cost of renting a 1 bedroom apartment in a desirable area, a studio apartment next to the highway that you share with someone or a single room you rent in someone's home? Does clothing mean new stuff from Macy's or quality clothing you can find at a Goodwill store? See the definition of living wage is very dependent on what an individual considers to be what THEY need to live. Companies like Disney have to be concerned with providing a high enough wage/benefit package to attract quality employees. When they pay less than competitors like Universal, they'll have a hard time attracting the kind of people they need for a top notch guest experience.

 

[andyman8]

That's the problem. Everyone wants to make $100k a year working 11-12 with an hour off for lunch.

That’s ridiculous and insulting to a lot of people. And for what it’s worth, many CMs work 11 to 12 hour days. When I was a CM, I did that four times a week.

This thread reeks of politics.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

The number 1 goal of a publicly traded company is to increase shareholder wealth. Paying people more because of inflation is not normally a high priority. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, just the way it is. I hope cast members understand that.

This alone is the root cause of a lot of issues right now. Companies should not be run worrying about the opinions of a handful of people who will sell their interest in the company at the drop of a hat. This is especially true when your path to keeping Wall Street happy requires sacrificing the quality of people who are the literal face of your company.

 

[persnickity]

Wage growth is not driving inflation, corporate greed is driving inflation.

We're living in the most advanced, most wonderful country in the world, are we not? So, yes, every job should pay a wage that you can survive on if you work full time.

Yes, there have always been people who had to work multiple jobs to make ends meet. No, it never should have been necessary, and it certainly shouldn't be necessary now.

 

[71 Truck]

This alone is the root cause of a lot of issues right now. Companies should not be run worrying about the opinions of a handful of people who will sell their interest in the company at the drop of a hat. This is especially true when your path to keeping Wall Street happy requires sacrificing the quality of people who are the literal face of your company.

Most people have to understand a company's main responsibility is to its investors.
Investors in a company are important for the company's health. Keeping Wall Street happy is what provides investors in a company, this will allow it to grow.
As a company grows it hires more employees providing more jobs to the community.

As I have said, pay scale is negotiated by the union and Disney then voted on by the cast members. If they don't like the deal vote no and strike.


Every employee wants to make more money and companies can only afford so much. As much money people think Disney makes it has bills/debt it to make payments on.

There has to be a balance, pay vs profit.

 

[71 Truck]

Wage growth is not driving inflation, corporate greed is driving inflation.

We're living in the most advanced, most wonderful country in the world, are we not? So, yes, every job should pay a wage that you can survive on if you work full time.

Yes, there have always been people who had to work multiple jobs to make ends meet. No, it never should have been necessary, and it certainly shouldn't be necessary now.

I am not sure corporate greed is the only thing driving inflation there are multiple factors.

We are living in the most advanced nation on the planet but I am not sure how this relates to every job paying a wage you could survive on. Not every job is meant to be a life long career.

As a kid growing up fast food restaurants were staffed by either high school kids looking to buy their first car or retirees looking to keep busy.
They were never meant to be a career.

As a kid growing up I saw family's who's had one parent working a full time job(a career) and one parent who worked part time as lets say a supermarket cashier to provide for the family. In this case the person with the career is going to make a lot more money because of lets say advanced skills needed to do that job and the person who is the cashier is going to probably make less. Even tho both jobs are important it is just a fact of life.

I was watching a report a few years ago. There was a single mom of four talking about her 20 year career working at a fast food restaurant and only making $10.00 an hour. She was not in management.
She was talking about how the restaurant should pay her more money so she could take care of her family. News flash, it was not the restaurants responsibility to take care of here family, it"s hers. Get the education/technical training needed to get a better paying job.

Some people have a Champagne life style on a beer budget. You may have to work two jobs to live this way.

When my wife and I lived in New Jersey we each worked full time and had a part time job each. The full time job paid the bills and the part time job paid for the lifestyle.

 

[0FF TO NEVERLAND]

Everyone works hard. I respect everyone who works well and does their job. From your McDonald’s worker to billion dollar CEO.

Everyone also knows the job they are in currently either pays well or it doesn’t.

These jobs pay what they pay. People either need to learn more trade school skills or go to school for their degrees to improve that to get a much higher salary job, or make their way up the ladder at the Walt Disney Company. That’s not being mean, that’s just how it is. A majority of these jobs are meant as entry level jobs. Not all, but from a CM at the parks standpoint, most. Nobody is saying it isn't difficult to do the job.

If I worked a job that I felt wasn’t paying well, I would try and find something else that does or educate myself more to get a higher salary, to progress out of being a CM. It’s of course not practical for everyone, but that’s why these jobs exist, that a large majority of people can get them without needing all the additional skills that might be needed for higher paying trade or degree jobs.

CM's deserve a pay raise. The dollar that was offered is a joke. Reality is though, to even feel a pay raise, they would need 50 percent more than what they are getting paid now, which they won't get. I hope they do get something that will be happy with though. Not paying more will affect Disney in the future, but in the end, they will just try to attract more people who live at home, or have multiple roommates and don't need to pay rents yet to support them, that are just happy to be making money period and not jobless

 

[DLgal]

I am not sure corporate greed is the only thing driving inflation there are multiple factors.

We are living in the most advanced nation on the planet but I am not sure how this relates to every job paying a wage you could survive on. Not every job is meant to be a life long career.

As a kid growing up fast food restaurants were staffed by either high school kids looking to buy their first car or retirees looking to keep busy.
They were never meant to be a career.

As a kid growing up I saw family's who's had one parent working a full time job(a career) and one parent who worked part time as lets say a supermarket cashier to provide for the family. In this case the person with the career is going to make a lot more money because of lets say advanced skills needed to do that job and the person who is the cashier is going to probably make less. Even tho both jobs are important it is just a fact of life.

I was watching a report a few years ago. There was a single mom of four talking about her 20 year career working at a fast food restaurant and only making $10.00 an hour. She was not in management.
She was talking about how the restaurant should pay her more money so she could take care of her family. News flash, it was not the restaurants responsibility to take care of here family, it"s hers. Get the education/technical training needed to get a better paying job.

Some people have a Champagne life style on a beer budget. You may have to work two jobs to live this way.

When my wife and I lived in New Jersey we each worked full time and had a part time job each. The full time job paid the bills and the part time job paid for the lifestyle.

There is a major problem in this country when the federal minimum wage hasn't gone up in 13 years. Sure, some states have chosen to do something about that and raise their minimum wages, but this needs to be done regularly at the federal level to force the change so that EVERYONE can keep up with inflation. And it's only when this change happens at the federal level that it makes a difference. Think about this: there are jobs RIGHT NOW in America REQUIRING Masters degrees and only paying $15/hr. That is a joke. If the Federal Minimum wage was $15, those companies would be forced to offer a more reasonable pay because who the heck is going to pay for a Masters degree only to get the same pay as a fast-food worker? So, salaries across the board HAVE to increase when the minimum wage floor increases.

Also, when some states up their minimum wages, but others don't, it's hard to find work in those states with companies who hire remote roles. It is HARD to find remote work in CA because so many companies want to pay peanuts and don't want to pay over $15/hr even though they are requiring advanced degrees and the work is skilled labor. Why would I work in a job that requires my degree and skill set if I can make more money working at Target? This is a direct result of having a higher minimum wage. It forces companies requiring "skilled" employers to pay a fair wage for that too.

In CA, near Disneyland, the question becomes "Why would I work at Disneyland and deal with the unpredictable schedule and requirement for 24/7, 365 availability for $16/hr when I can work at In N Out for $22/hr? (Yes, that's what they pay)

 

[0FF TO NEVERLAND]

There is a major problem in this country when the federal minimum wage hasn't gone up in 13 years. Sure, some states have chosen to do something about that and raise their minimum wages, but this needs to be done regularly at the federal level to force the change so that EVERYONE can keep up with inflation. And it's only when this change happens at the federal level that it makes a difference. Think about this: there are jobs RIGHT NOW in America REQUIRING Masters degrees and only paying $15/hr. That is a joke. If the Federal Minimum wage was $15, those companies would be forced to offer a more reasonable pay because who the heck is going to pay for a Masters degree only to get the same pay as a fast-food worker? So, salaries across the board HAVE to increase when the minimum wage floor increases.

Also, when some states up their minimum wages, but others don't, it's hard to find work in those states with companies who hire remote roles. It is HARD to find remote work in CA because so many companies want to pay peanuts and don't want to pay over $15/hr even though they are requiring advanced degrees and the work is skilled labor. Why would I work in a job that requires my degree and skill set if I can make more money working at Target? This is a direct result of having a higher minimum wage. It forces companies requiring "skilled" employers to pay a fair wage for that too.

In CA, near Disneyland, the question becomes "Why would I work at Disneyland and deal with the unpredictable schedule and requirement for 24/7, 365 availability for $16/hr when I can work at In N Out for $22/hr? (Yes, that's what they pay)

Just remember though, if salaries across the board increased, then the min wage increase would mean nothing, and you are back at square one. Everything raises if all wages raised.

 

[DLgal]

Just remember though, if salaries across the board increased, then the min wage increase would mean nothing, and you are back at square one. Everything raises if all wages raised.

No it doesn't. This is a fallacy.

 

[0FF TO NEVERLAND]

No it doesn't. This is a fallacy.

If you say so

 

[71 Truck]

There is a major problem in this country when the federal minimum wage hasn't gone up in 13 years. Sure, some states have chosen to do something about that and raise their minimum wages, but this needs to be done regularly at the federal level to force the change so that EVERYONE can keep up with inflation. And it's only when this change happens at the federal level that it makes a difference. Think about this: there are jobs RIGHT NOW in America REQUIRING Masters degrees and only paying $15/hr. That is a joke. If the Federal Minimum wage was $15, those companies would be forced to offer a more reasonable pay because who the heck is going to pay for a Masters degree only to get the same pay as a fast-food worker? So, salaries across the board HAVE to increase when the minimum wage floor increases.

Also, when some states up their minimum wages, but others don't, it's hard to find work in those states with companies who hire remote roles. It is HARD to find remote work in CA because so many companies want to pay peanuts and don't want to pay over $15/hr even though they are requiring advanced degrees and the work is skilled labor. Why would I work in a job that requires my degree and skill set if I can make more money working at Target? This is a direct result of having a higher minimum wage. It forces companies requiring "skilled" employers to pay a fair wage for that too.

In CA, near Disneyland, the question becomes "Why would I work at Disneyland and deal with the unpredictable schedule and requirement for 24/7, 365 availability for $16/hr when I can work at In N Out for $22/hr? (Yes, that's what they pay)

This is where we might respectfully disagree. I think the federal minimum wage actually hurts people.

I think an employer should set the wage they want for a job. If no one apply for the job then the employer needs to raise it till people apply for the jobs listed, this is kind of what is happening now in the job market. I never would have thought a fast food restaurant would have to offer people $15.00 dollars an hour.

If employers have to raise pay in line with inflation does this mean pay can go down as inflation goes down.

As far as jobs paying $15.00 an hour and requiring a masters degree that company is going to wait a long time for someone to apply.
My wife works for a company that is looking for people right now. The job requires a CDL license. They are currently paying I think $38.00 dollars an hour to start, then it goes up from there.
So people need to think before they decide to spend a LOT of money getting a degree that only pays $15.00 dollars an hour.

As far as remote workers this is all new in the volume since COVID. Those companies needing to fill those positions must be doing it even offering $15.00 dollars an hour otherwise they would have to raise pay to attract applicants. My wife worked remote during the beginning of COVID and not having to pay for gas and put wear and tear on her car was worth something.

As far as people with advanced degrees working at jobs not requiring advanced degrees/ specialty training, I have known several including my self that have done this.

 

[DLgal]

This is where we might respectfully disagree. I think the federal minimum wage actually hurts people.

I think an employer should set the wage they want for a job. If no one apply for the job then the employer needs to raise it till people apply for the jobs listed, this is kind of what is happening now in the job market. I never would have thought a fast food restaurant would have to offer people $15.00 dollars an hour.

If employers have to raise pay in line with inflation does this mean pay can go down as inflation goes down.

As far as jobs paying $15.00 an hour and requiring a masters degree that company is going to wait a long time for someone to apply.
My wife works for a company that is looking for people right now. The job requires a CDL license. They are currently paying I think $38.00 dollars an hour to start, then it goes up from there.
So people need to think before they decide to spend a LOT of money getting a degree that only pays $15.00 dollars an hour.

As far as remote workers this is all new in the volume since COVID. Those companies needing to fill those positions must be doing it even offering $15.00 dollars an hour otherwise they would have to raise pay to attract applicants. My wife worked remote during the beginning of COVID and not having to pay for gas and put wear and tear on her car was worth something.

As far as people with advanced degrees working at jobs not requiring advanced degrees/ specialty training, I have known several including my self that have done this.

I've had a remote part time job since 2014. It's not "new." Luckily my company adjusted my pay up when I moved back to CA, but they still pay people in other states as little as $11/hr and it's work that requires a Bachelor's degree and/or teaching experience.

 

[DLgal]

If you say so

It's been proven to not be true. It's not my personal belief or anything.

 

[71 Truck]

I've had a remote part time job since 2014. It's not "new." Luckily my company adjusted my pay up when I moved back to CA, but they still pay people in other states as little as $11/hr and it's work that requires a Bachelor's degree and/or teaching experience.

You are correct remote jobs are not "new" they just are in the volume they are now I think due to COVID. Most company's found the amount of money they could save not having a physical building to be significant.

As far as I know there are still a large number of Disney jobs being done remote or have become remote.

As far as pay it was nice your company compensated you when you moved back to California however is that fair to other employees who choose to remain in less expensive states that are doing the same job?

As far as people taking a job that requires specialty training or a degree for as little as $11.00 dollars an hour, maybe that is good pay basses on where they live so they choose to take the job.

The only thing I have heard of, is someone getting a pay increase based on where the live if the job requires them to physically be there.

When I lived in New Jersey I had a full time job and a part time job. The part time job paid more per hour even tho both jobs required very detailed technical skills. Unfortunately the part time job people I worked for only hired part time. Sometimes it is what people can afford to pay, then people have to make the decision weather or not they want the job.

As I have said anyone who wants to work for Disney knows what the pay is before they take the job. I personally know of and knew people making over six figure incomes working for Disney who started out as entry level cast members.
They have to decide if it is worth to be able to take care of them self and their family.