Disney Riviera Resort

[Madonna3]

Because they can afford to do it. If it doesn't work, throw a character in it. If that still doesn't work, open it up. There's no substantial risk and if the initial exclusivity sells a few contracts, well, they made their money.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Ok I get what you're saying with that argument, but here's the thing: how are they paying more? To establish that, we have to establish what points would be worth at DRR and what the initial offering us. They need to keep the points selling at a certain price point, correct? Otherwise, DRR points aren't as "valuable" as other DVC points.

Good example: I own at VGF. If I use my points to stay at SSR, I have not made a wise investment. I have paid "more" to stay at SSR because my VGF points cost more than points at SSR. So, to keep valuation fixed, they have to offer DRR points at a certain level. They can't offer them less than Copper Creek. It has to be at least at that level. So, now, we need to value DRR at $176/pp at least. If we don't then we cheapen the resort and no one buys. So, what's going to make people willing to pay $176 per point?

I give you this: I think we absolutely would NEVER know the premium we are paying for exclusive restaurants/shops if they go this route! I just would pretty much guarantee that it would be rolled in there.

THIS is the $25,000 question!! I don't think we've hit on that yet... ... concerning... ...?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

We're a family of 4. If DRR was designed like Copper Creek, offered the same, if not better amenities, and offered me exclusivity, I'd buy it.

OK -- fair enough.

My questions to you:

1. Would you ONLY buy it if had exclusive restaurants/shops, or would you still buy if it "was designed like Copper Creek, offered the same, if not better amenities"?
2. If they had two prices you buy in at: one with and one without exclusive restaurants/shops -- how much extra per point would you pay just to tack on the exclusivity -- hold all else constant?

 

[jsrowdon]

They would be taking a risk here -- risk of keeping a restaurant booked 365 days a year with a drastically reduced market.

This is still them taking a loss -- why would they do that?

Where is the risk? If it is going to be exclusive then it can be tried to resort operational cost which they can cover any loses with members dues, like I said before. So they don't really have to have it booked solid everyday because they are going to take a hit on it anyway, the members are. This just gives one other thing to market during sales.

If it doesn't work they just opened it up anyway.

I kind of doubt they would actually do this but since the topic of exclusivity was brought up this seems more reasonable to be than making the whole resort exclusive.

 

[Madonna3]

OK -- fair enough.

My questions to you:

1. Would you ONLY buy it if had exclusive restaurants/shops, or would you still buy if it "was designed like Copper Creek, offered the same, if not better amenities"?
2. If they had two prices you buy in at: one with and one without exclusive restaurants/shops -- how much extra per point would you pay just to tack on the exclusivity -- hold all else constant?

1. I don't know. I can't say no, but I can't say for sure either. It depends. The thought of herds of families getting off the gondola from POP at DRR for breakfast at 6am terrifies me. It makes me imagine Chef Mickey's at the Contemporary pretty much any time of day.
2. That would be an issue for me. I would ask too many questions on how to ensure the exclusivity. Is there a "club" level that we'd have guaranteed access to? How much I would pay for it depends on how I value it at the time. Is it full price with a exclusivity, but $3 per point cheaper if you don't buy it? I don't think there would be a way to do that since you can use points at any resort.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

1. I don't know. I can't say no, but I can't say for sure either. It depends. The thought of herds of families getting off the gondola from POP at DRR for breakfast at 6am terrifies me. It makes me imagine Chef Mickey's at the Contemporary pretty much any time of day.
2. That would be an issue for me. I would ask too many questions on how to ensure the exclusivity. Is there a "club" level that we'd have guaranteed access to? How much I would pay for it depends on how I value it at the time. Is it full price with a exclusivity, but $3 per point cheaper if you don't buy it? I don't think there would be a way to do that since you can use points at any resort.

Oh, they'd never actually do option 2 -- I was just trying to understand how much extra you'd be willing to pay for just the exclusive shops/restaurants. For me, as you know, that figure is $0pp... was wondering if you felt like you could nail it down to a dollar amount. Because like I said, whether you would know how much or not, I'm pretty comfortable assuming that Disney will assign it a risk premium and pass it along.

Incidentally, I think we're coming up with the beginnings of a decent Disney survey, so good job us!

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Where is the risk? If it is going to be exclusive then it can be tried to resort operational cost which they can cover any loses with members dues, like I said before. So they don't really have to have it booked solid everyday because they are going to take a hit on it anyway, the members are. This just gives one other thing to market during sales.

If it doesn't work they just opened it up anyway.

I kind of doubt they would actually do this but since the topic of exclusivity was brought up this seems more reasonable to be than making the whole resort exclusive.

I just can't get away from the fact that any way you slice/dice it, there just IS a risk they'd be taking a loss -- they will assign that a risk premium and pass it along to buyers. Then if it fails, what do they do -- take away their owners' supposedly-beloved exclusive restaurant? I don't see it.

 

[preemiemama]

For the sake of balance, I would say that our household is not as frugal, and we would pay $0 to dine next to ONLY DVC members and DRR guests. $0. We are a sample size of two -- dispositive!! I rest my case!

The exclusivity does intrigue me (more than the view would) but neither is enough to make me pay $176 or more a point to buy into a stand alone deluxe resort built on the grounds of a moderate. They need to do more. Exactly what, I don't know.

Ok I get what you're saying with that argument, but here's the thing: how are they paying more? To establish that, we have to establish what points would be worth at DRR and what the initial offering us. They need to keep the points selling at a certain price point, correct? Otherwise, DRR points aren't as "valuable" as other DVC points.

Good example: I own at VGF. If I use my points to stay at SSR, I have not made a wise investment. I have paid "more" to stay at SSR because my VGF points cost more than points at SSR. So, to keep valuation fixed, they have to offer DRR points at a certain level. They can't offer them less than Copper Creek. It has to be at least at that level. So, now, we need to value DRR at $176/pp at least. If we don't then we cheapen the resort and no one buys. So, what's going to make people willing to pay $176 per point?

This I think is the heart of the issue- they need to outdo Copper Creek. It needs to be amazing. I think the exclusivity would work to elevate the perception, and possibly bring in sales, if the rest of the resort is done well. I'm not sure it will be done well- I think it will be done by cutting corners.

THIS is the $25,000 question!! I don't think we've hit on that yet... ... concerning... ...?

Yes, it is concerning. Again, look at the refurb at Pop. What are they going to do to make this worth that price point given what we actually currently know?

OK -- fair enough.

My questions to you:

1. Would you ONLY buy it if had exclusive restaurants/shops, or would you still buy if it "was designed like Copper Creek, offered the same, if not better amenities"?
2. If they had two prices you buy in at: one with and one without exclusive restaurants/shops -- how much extra per point would you pay just to tack on the exclusivity -- hold all else constant?

I think the exclusivity needs to be rolled in if it is going to work. It separates it from the surrounding moderate and nearby value hotels. In order to be like Copper Creek, it needs to have the same amenities at WL- on its own. And even then, if you share a parking lot with CBR and a gondola line with the values and CBR, it needs to be even better. Otherwise it is the moderate DVC we expected to hear about with the inflated deluxe pricing. Who wants to buy into that?

 

[jade1]

I just wish it was 21 and older. Would add on for sure.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I just wish it was 21 and older. Would add on for sure.

Disney sin!!

 

[dlavender]

The more I think about it, the more I like it, purely from a DVC owner standpoint (which I'm not, and will only become once Jade lets me buy some of those $50/PP contracts at cost...)

IF they made the DRR TS a DVC only/staying at DRR only perk, it would throw all DVCers a bone while at the same time helping DRR sell at $180/PP. There is value in that. Here all you DVCers, we love you so much we have made this new restaurant just for you!

But if they opened it up to all DVCers, does that not help DRR sales because its not really specific to just DRR? I don't have the answers, just random questions.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

IF they made the DRR TS a DVC only/staying at DRR only perk, it would throw all DVCers a bone while at the same time helping DRR sell at $180/PP. There is value in that. Here all you DVCers, we love you so much we have made this new restaurant just for you!

My eternal question: How much would you pay for that exclusivity ALONE per point? Just that piece. Assuming Jade doesn't sell, of course. That risk premium'll be rolled in... ... I'd bet... ...

 

[preemiemama]

My eternal question: How much would you pay for that exclusivity ALONE per point? Just that piece. Assuming Jade doesn't sell, of course. That risk premium'll be rolled in... ... I'd bet... ...

I think you need to flip the question. How much would you be willing to pay for DRR alone- as a moderate DVC with a TS and a pool, possibly a QS and a store? Oh, and shared gondola access to 2 parks. Maybe some nice looking rooms like Pop... Then, does the exclusivity help mitigate the $176+ per point they are going to charge?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I think you need to flip the question. How much would you be willing to pay for DRR alone- as a moderate DVC with a TS and a pool, possibly a QS and a store? Oh, and shared gondola access to 2 parks. Maybe some nice looking rooms like Pop... Then, does the exclusivity help mitigate the $176+ per point they are going to charge?

That's the same question, really. For me: Nope. I honestly would not pay a penny for it -- I'd assign it zero value -- I would ignore it altogether in my analysis about whether to buy or not. Same answer even if just deciding whether to stay there or not on my SSR points.

Could not care less who I am dining next to! I book 180 days out. If the exclusivity shortened that window for me (again -- a sign of risk to Disney), it would be worth nothing to me, personally. And again... if it's easy to book night of, that is a problem for Disney.

Question isn't about me... would ENOUGH people think that was a draw... I still don't think so, but who knows?! Disney: survey!

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

As a slight aside... if people I know who LIVE at The Ritz -- forked over enough cash to LIVE there -- don't care to eat next to the riffraff (me) or compete with the riffraff (me) for a reservation, why would the average DVCer care? I still don't get it...

 

[dlavender]

Could not care less who I am dining next to! I book 180 days out. If the exclusivity shortened that window for me (again -- a sign of risk to Disney), it would be worth nothing to me, personally. And again... if it's easy to book night of, that is a problem for Disney.

That would be a key stat to know.

If most DVCers book 11 months out, dining 180 days, FP 60 days, and like it, then there would be little value to having a nice TS that you could walk into.

I don't know. I don't follow DVC threads or anything so I have no idea if people are happy with the status quo or they would jump at an opportunity to have something a little different/easier to plan.

That would really tell if something like this would have 0 interest or 70% inerest.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

That would be a key stat to know.

If most DVCers book 11 months out, dining 180 days, FP 60 days, and like it, then there would be little value to having a nice TS that you could walk into.

I don't know. I don't follow DVC threads or anything so I have no idea if people are happy with the status quo or they would jump at an opportunity to have something a little different/easier to plan.

That would really tell if something like this would have 0 interest or 70% inerest.

That's my thinking as well. I don't know how DVCers break down in terms of how far ahead they book. I know I'm on there at 7mos and/or 11mos locking in my DVC room or I might not get what I want. Then at 180 days I book my ADRs. Would love to know how this breaks down...

 

[dlavender]

As a slight aside... if people I know who LIVE at The Ritz -- forked over enough cash to LIVE there -- don't care to eat next to the riffraff (me) or compete with the riffraff (me) for a reservation, why would the average DVCer care? I still don't get it...

I think that is a little different.

I have no idea, but if you lived at the Ritz and the lobby was full 24/7 with families and you could only eat there once or twice a month because everyone was filling the joint up who didn't say there, you may get a tad annoyed (especially if you had to circle the parking lot three times to find a spot due to said crowds).....

It's apples to oranges, IMO.

Maybe you wouldn't care?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I think that is a little different.

I have no idea, but if you lived at the Ritz and the lobby was full 24/7 with families and you could only eat there once or twice a month because everyone was filling the joint up who didn't say there, you may get a tad annoyed (especially if you had to circle the parking lot three times to find a spot due to said crowds).....

It's apples to oranges, IMO.

Maybe you wouldn't care?

Good point! They'd be cranky if they could never get in the restaurant, or if was overrun with riffraff (me).

But that is never the case at WDW either -- not the way I plan my trips, at least. I always get Cal Grill if we want it. Have even gotten it a week out at times. And the place is never overrun like the lobby you sketched out.

Assuming "decent availability" (whatever that is for the average person) and common areas not overrun, I place ZERO premium on having exclusive access to a restaurant. In that sense, it's like The Ritz.

 

[preemiemama]

That's the same question, really. For me: Nope. I honestly would not pay a penny for it -- I'd assign it zero value -- I would ignore it altogether in my analysis about whether to buy or not. Same answer even if just deciding whether to stay there or not on my SSR points.

Could not care less who I am dining next to! I book 180 days out. If the exclusivity shortened that window for me (again -- a sign of risk to Disney), it would be worth nothing to me, personally. And again... if it's easy to book night of, that is a problem for Disney.

Question isn't about me... would ENOUGH people think that was a draw... I still don't think so, but who knows?! Disney: survey!

This is where I disagree. It would not be enough for me to buy (given the rest of what we know) at the price they are asking. If they added the club level snack stuff @Roxyfire and I discussed, I might consider it more heavily. I'm still not sure it would be enough for me. BUT... I think the fact that the other exclusive events sell out as quickly as they do, and the EPCOT lounge has people in all day might be telling us that there are enough people who WOULD find it a draw. For them, it might be enough of a draw. I think the exclusive events selling out are evidence that there is a DVC outcry for that "members only" stuff out there. So, there may in fact be enough people out there willing to buy into the exclusivity.