Doctor Dies From Allergic Reaction After Raglan Road Meal at Disney Springs

[imbelle]

Couldn't you call your manager or allergy coordinator to take over then?

Also, you could say the same thing about driving, if despite your best intentions or circumstances beyond your control, you run over someone with your car, wouldn't you face similar consequences?

Here's what we do to keep our DS5 safe and has worked so far
-research restaurants ahead of time that are allergy-friendly
-ask questions
-examine food when it arrives
-ask more questions if you have doubts

We haven't had issues with restaurants, and we eat out or do carry out 2-4 times a week. What we had issues so far are daycares, school, and social gatherings. I've had to rush him to the ER 5 times in the first 5 years of his life.

Do most restaurants have allergy coordinators (not being snarky, genuinely curious)? I don't see how shifting the responsibility to the manager alleviates the risk to the customer (they probably received the same allergy training, if any, as the server).

The point is, regardless of how much training the restaurant staff receives or how well they follow procedures, there are countless ways something can be cross contaminated in a restaurant. I thought back to my college days when I worked in a restaurant and it literally made my head hurt to think of all the ways it could happen: the source of every ingredient, every employee (some of whom may not speak English well) who comes in contact with every element, the list is endless.

While it's unfortunate if the cross contamination results in discomfort or brief illness for the customer, it's another thing all together if the customer knows that they have a life-threatening allergy and forces the restaurant staff to share their risk. Having worked in a restaurant, there is no way that I would take on that risk either as server or as the customer with a life threatening allergy. There are just too many ways that it could go south.

We all know that we are accepting the risk of an accident when we get behind the wheel of a car. Medical personnel know that their field includes risk. I don't think servers go to work with the expectation of causing death by food. Should they? In a perfect world, maybe. But that's a pretty big expectation to trust your life to someone who serves food as a job just to make a living. Does it suck that a person with a life-threatening allergy can't confidently expect to eat safely in a restaurant? Of course it does. But when that meal may be your last meal, is it really worth it?

 

[Madteaparty001]

Do most restaurants have allergy coordinators (not being snarky, genuinely curious)? I don't see how shifting the responsibility to the manager alleviates the risk to the customer (they probably received the same allergy training, if any, as the server).

The point is, regardless of how much training the restaurant staff receives or how well they follow procedures, there are countless ways something can be cross contaminated in a restaurant. I thought back to my college days when I worked in a restaurant and it literally made my head hurt to think of all the ways it could happen: the source of every ingredient, every employee (some of whom may not speak English well) who comes in contact with every element, the list is endless.

While it's unfortunate if the cross contamination results in discomfort or brief illness for the customer, it's another thing all together if the customer knows that they have a life-threatening allergy and forces the restaurant staff to share their risk. Having worked in a restaurant, there is no way that I would take on that risk either as server or as the customer with a life threatening allergy. There are just too many ways that it could go south.

We all know that we are accepting the risk of an accident when we get behind the wheel of a car. Medical personnel know that their field includes risk. I don't think servers go to work with the expectation of causing death by food. Should they? In a perfect world, maybe. But that's a pretty big expectation to trust your life to someone who serves food as a job just to make a living. Does it suck that a person with a life-threatening allergy can't confidently expect to eat safely in a restaurant? Of course it does. But when that meal may be your last meal, is it really worth it?

I think wires are getting crossed. No one is saying if a server makes a mistake because of unknown circumstance then they are to be raked over the coals. If DH wrote a code that failed and caused life saving medical equipment to go down that resulted in patient death nothing would happen to him unless malicious intent or gross incompetence was proven. If malicious intent he could face jail time, if gross incompetence the burden would fall on the employer to fire or retrain and then compensate those effected. The owners of the restaurant are responsible for everything that happens there, just like someone wandering into your backyard and drowning in your pool is technically your responsibility.

If a plumber messes up and causes a leak or burst pipe that ruins an entire floor of your house they are responsible, whether or not it was an honest mistake. That's why they're insured. I don't know why people think servers should get a magical pass to any responsibility in what is an important part of their job.

 

[lanejudy]

It is not a park rule this inspection rule is government rule about not heating brought in food.

I know that. However the theme park can still post the rule. You bring this up often so it seems your park is not doing a good job of sharing that info. Putting it on the website allows the parents to be informed in advanced; signs at the restaurant reinforces that. All you (the employee) need to do is point to the sign and say “sorry, health department rules.” No need for any further discussion with the customer.

But to swing this back on topic — a perfectly reasonable accommodation is for a restaurant to allow a customer to bring in ready-to-eat food if the customer does not feel comfortable that the restaurant can safely provide food free of allergen or cross-contamination. The customer can request it and the restaurant needs to allow it under the ADA.

 

[imbelle]

I think wires are getting crossed. No one is saying if a server makes a mistake because of unknown circumstance then they are to be raked over the coals. If DH wrote a code that failed and caused life saving medical equipment to go down that resulted in patient death nothing would happen to him unless malicious intent or gross incompetence was proven. If malicious intent he could face jail time, if gross incompetence the burden would fall on the employer to fire or retrain and then compensate those effected. The owners of the restaurant are responsible for everything that happens there, just like someone wandering into your backyard and drowning in your pool is technically your responsibility.

If a plumber messes up and causes a leak or burst pipe that ruins an entire floor of your house they are responsible, whether or not it was an honest mistake. That's why they're insured. I don't know why people think servers should get a magical pass

We see this from two different angles. You are a mom who wants to give your family a normal experience (understandable). You've decided that the benefits outweigh the risks.

I'm looking at it from a server's point of view. Someone who had no say in your decision but will be a partner in your misfortune if it goes badly. I'm not just referring to assigning blame after the fact, legally or professionally. I'm talking about the psychological effect of being involved in another person's death.

There are a lot of things that people can legally do but that will also make them legally dead. You can't stand back and say "Not my circus, not my monkeys" if you're forced to be a participant.

Comparing the responsibility and liability of medical professionals with that of restaurant staff and plumbers is unrealistic. There are good reasons why no one goes to to the local Applebee's for a surgical procedure or calls Roto-Rooter for a colonoscopy.

If your child has been to the ER 5 times, it sounds like your family has faced a lot of dangers in the world. I sincerely wish you good fortune in navigating what must be a difficult journey.

 

[brent02139]

Do most restaurants have allergy coordinators (not being snarky, genuinely curious)? I don't see how shifting the responsibility to the manager alleviates the risk to the customer (they probably received the same allergy training, if any, as the server).

The point is, regardless of how much training the restaurant staff receives or how well they follow procedures, there are countless ways something can be cross contaminated in a restaurant. I thought back to my college days when I worked in a restaurant and it literally made my head hurt to think of all the ways it could happen: the source of every ingredient, every employee (some of whom may not speak English well) who comes in contact with every element, the list is endless.

While it's unfortunate if the cross contamination results in discomfort or brief illness for the customer, it's another thing all together if the customer knows that they have a life-threatening allergy and forces the restaurant staff to share their risk. Having worked in a restaurant, there is no way that I would take on that risk either as server or as the customer with a life threatening allergy. There are just too many ways that it could go south.

We all know that we are accepting the risk of an accident when we get behind the wheel of a car. Medical personnel know that their field includes risk. I don't think servers go to work with the expectation of causing death by food. Should they? In a perfect world, maybe. But that's a pretty big expectation to trust your life to someone who serves food as a job just to make a living. Does it suck that a person with a life-threatening allergy can't confidently expect to eat safely in a restaurant? Of course it does. But when that meal may be your last meal, is it really worth it?

Even if restaurants don't have an allergy coordinator, they have a manager. If they don't feel up to the task, the manager is suppose to step in and bring the extra level of expertise.

In Florida, Food Allergy Awareness Act holds food establishments responsible for keeping their patrons safe from food allergy, so it's the law. That said, the law has language that "reasonable" effort made to keep allergents away, display and label food allergy, etc. So they are suppose to keep track the source of every ingredient, but doesn't mean if someone is ill, a waiter is going to jail.

There are other ways of people getting sick in food industry that I'm sure you're aware of, like biological (norovirus) or chemical contamination. People's lives can be impacted because of a waiter didn't wash their hands after going to the bathroom, for example.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I'm looking at it from a server's point of view. Someone who had no say in your decision but will be a partner in your misfortune if it goes badly. I'm not just referring to assigning blame after the fact, legally or professionally. I'm talking about the psychological effect of being involved in another person's death.

There are a lot of things that people can legally do but that will also make them legally dead. You can't stand back and say "Not my circus, not my monkeys" if you're forced to be a participant.

Every employee who works with the public accepts the risk that one of their customers could have a serious accident such as: choking, heart attack, stroke, customer violence, injury from fire.

Of these, the risk of a fatal allergic food reaction is very low. Only about 1% of hospitalizations are for anaphylaxis, and of those only about .1% is fatal). Heart attacks are far more common and far more often fatal.

Having worked in the food industry, my training covered myriad risks. Deep fryers and deli slicers are both rather dangerous. Customer violence is sadly a very regular occurrence.

Restaurant employees are aware of the above risks when they are hired.

 

[Madteaparty001]

We see this from two different angles. You are a mom who wants to give your family a normal experience (understandable). You've decided that the benefits outweigh the risks.

I'm looking at it from a server's point of view. Someone who had no say in your decision but will be a partner in your misfortune if it goes badly. I'm not just referring to assigning blame after the fact, legally or professionally. I'm talking about the psychological effect of being involved in another person's death.

There are a lot of things that people can legally do but that will also make them legally dead. You can't stand back and say "Not my circus, not my monkeys" if you're forced to be a participant.

Comparing the responsibility and liability of medical professionals with that of restaurant staff and plumbers is unrealistic. There are good reasons why no one goes to to the local Applebee's for a surgical procedure or calls Roto-Rooter for a colonoscopy.

If your child has been to the ER 5 times, it sounds like your family has faced a lot of dangers in the world. I sincerely wish you good fortune in navigating what must be a difficult journey.

Again, my DH is in IT, he has no actual contact with patients or medical training. Medicine is not his profession just like the waiter isn't cooking your meal because they are not a cook/chef. But their mistakes can still have an impact because they are part of the system.

My sister went to cooking school, she certified in servsafe, if a waiter or waitress tried to make anything she would have barred them from ever entering the kitchen again because there are laws in place and food safety is very important in the industry. I would argue if a waiter/waitress can not handle the responsibility of serving the correct food and communicating important information between the patrons and the kitchen then they should find a different profession. Because whether you like the idea or not it IS a part of their job.

I am not the person who had to take their child to the ER 5 times, though I am very familiar with our local children's hospital, but I have brought food to restaurants for DD or had her eat before or after. There are only 2 restaurants in the entire world that she will willing eat at every time. One is a local spot that has cheerios on the menu the other is Boma because the chef very kindly steamed her a large bowl of peas and she thought 'they were the best testing peas ever'. I am realistic about my expectations of restaurants and their dangers, but I also am not giving them a free pass if they offer to accommodate allergies.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

I know that. However the theme park can still post the rule. You bring this up often so it seems your park is not doing a good job of sharing that info. Putting it on the website allows the parents to be informed in advanced; signs at the restaurant reinforces that. All you (the employee) need to do is point to the sign and say “sorry, health department rules.” No need for any further discussion with the customer.

But to swing this back on topic — a perfectly reasonable accommodation is for a restaurant to allow a customer to bring in ready-to-eat food if the customer does not feel comfortable that the restaurant can safely provide food free of allergen or cross-contamination. The customer can request it and the restaurant needs to allow it under the ADA.

I have never seen posted at any park, Disney or other. I know it comes up at the park I work at.

 

[SirDuff]

DH works IT for a medical organization, he had to sign paperwork saying he understood that in this field errors caused by him or colleagues could result in patient death. I don't see how someone working in the food industry is any different.

Which is very different from the post you quoted where the server would be held personally responsible for the death.

 

[imbelle]

No matter how right you think you are

No matter if you believe the law is on your side

Regardless of your faith in humanity to do the right thing

In spite of your trust that the universe has got your back

Dead is still dead

 

[brent02139]

No matter how right you think you are

No matter if you believe the law is on your side

Regardless of your faith in humanity to do the right thing

In spite of your trust that the universe has got your back

Dead is still dead

Though we stand firm in our convictions,
And the law may echo our voice,
Our faith in good may be unwavering,
Our trust in cosmic fate, resolute,
Yet, the end remains unchanged—
For death, the great equalizer, holds no bias.

 

[Madteaparty001]

Which is very different from the post you quoted where the server would be held personally responsible for the death.

If you read all of my posts I indicated I believe that to be the case only when malicious intent or gross incompetence was proven. In the case of gross incompetence, the establishment would be held responsible for the hiring and training of that person and it would be on them to hold the employee responsible and to show they did due diligence to prevent future failures.

 

[Judique]

What these people should probably say is that they have a sensitivity or intolerance to whatever ingredient is in the food. A sensitivity/intolerance will not cause anaphylaxis ( unless the person has developed an allergy since the last time the ingredient was consumed).
For instance, I have an allergy to shellfish - quite probably death - but a sensitivity to steroid shots - doubles me over in pain but no worries about dying.

YES! I have sensitivities to certain things. Almost immediate projectile vomiting with a bite.

And, I'm allergic to Sulfa.

Two different situations. But Disney doesn't always understand the questions they are asking. I was embarrassed by a waiter who was rather loudly questioning my answers, while I sat a couple of feet away from a couple on either side who quieted and listened. Telling them I had a sensitivity wasn't computing. So I barely ate and hoped for the best.

 

[hsmamato2]

Reactions can be variable from exposure to exposure. Some food allergies are mild. As I understand it, reactions tend to begin within an hour of exposure, but they might begin gradually. Just as environmental allergies are variable, food reactions are also variable.

Some people are allergic, and don't know it. They get used to the histamines. (Like a child who is asked/required to drink milk every day.)

Anyone can develop an allergic reaction.

Food allergies have three components that few folks understand: 1. is the level of reaction- though this can vary over time. 2. is the quantity needed to trigger a reaction. 3. multiple allergies can = a bigger reaction when the person has a double exposure.

A friend of mine is allergic to wheat, but a big exposure = she gets very sick, very quickly, but then she recovers after vomiting. A tiny exposure = her reaction lasts much longer, and she is miserable for up to 2 days.

This is 100% true. I raised a severely allergic child,(yes, to wheat) and after one episode in the ER when he was young, the doc told me about the varied reactions that can happen,in the same person! I found that scariest of all TBH b/c it meant we had NO idea if his reaction could be mild,or kill him at any point. He's now an adult,and he knows within seconds if he's ingested the wrong food- Disney was always our 'safe place' to visit....this story is so very sad to hear about.

 

[VolvoManiac850]

Now that my wife has a known issue with seed oils and added sugar (which I'm glad we found the culprits), it's getting very hard to eat out.

Restaurants need to be aware of the less noted allergies. It's one thing to cut out gluten or peanuts. It's another when the issues are a bad reaction to cheap ingredients used even by better restaurants.

Disney was great with us. Locally, we have only two places we can go now, both of whom are accommodating, and neither of them are chains. We now have to bring a cooler full of food with us on road trips because it is so difficult to avoid anything with more than 5g sugar or something drowning in canola/soybean oil.

I feel there should be a disclaimer about oil on EVERY menu, much like there is with something like shellfish, gluten, egg, milk, sesame, etc. There are many more people out there who have issues from seed oils and likely don't even know it.

Added sugar is another story. I'm from Pittsburgh, where Primanti Bros is an institution. Since it doesn't get along with my wife, who loves the taste (as do I), we took it upon ourselves to make our own Primanti fish sandwiches. I had to look up a recipe for the slaw. Imagine the horror when I saw it had a half cup of sugar to 1 and a quarter cup of cabbage!! We wound up using a tablespoon of Stevia instead and it worked out great.

Again, Disney is spectacular in this regard. For those saying Disney is not being cautious here, don't forget Raglan Road and other Disney Springs restaurants don't usually get managed by Disney. It's up to the corporate partner there to get on Disney's level.

 

[mkatsy]

Now that my wife has a known issue with seed oils and added sugar (which I'm glad we found the culprits), it's getting very hard to eat out.

Restaurants need to be aware of the less noted allergies. It's one thing to cut out gluten or peanuts. It's another when the issues are a bad reaction to cheap ingredients used even by better restaurants.

Disney was great with us. Locally, we have only two places we can go now, both of whom are accommodating, and neither of them are chains. We now have to bring a cooler full of food with us on road trips because it is so difficult to avoid anything with more than 5g sugar or something drowning in canola/soybean oil.

I feel there should be a disclaimer about oil on EVERY menu, much like there is with something like shellfish, gluten, egg, milk, sesame, etc. There are many more people out there who have issues from seed oils and likely don't even know it.

Added sugar is another story. I'm from Pittsburgh, where Primanti Bros is an institution. Since it doesn't get along with my wife, who loves the taste (as do I), we took it upon ourselves to make our own Primanti fish sandwiches. I had to look up a recipe for the slaw. Imagine the horror when I saw it had a half cup of sugar to 1 and a quarter cup of cabbage!! We wound up using a tablespoon of Stevia instead and it worked out great.

Again, Disney is spectacular in this regard. For those saying Disney is not being cautious here, don't forget Raglan Road and other Disney Springs restaurants don't usually get managed by Disney. It's up to the corporate partner there to get on Disney's level.

Is the sugar issue malabsorption? Watch out for sugar alcohols like mannitol, sorbitol, xylitol, lactitol, isomalt, maltitol and hydrogenated starch hydrolysates (HSH), they are converted to sugar during digestion. I have fructose malabsorption and I find it more difficult to manage than the nut allergy because there is no consistency in the labeling. My doctor set my cutoff at 12 grams total carbs so that’s fairly generous, but I try to spend it wisely.

 

[VolvoManiac850]

Is the sugar issue malabsorption? Watch out for sugar alcohols like mannitol, sorbitol, xylitol, lactitol, isomalt, maltitol and hydrogenated starch hydrolysates (HSH), they are converted to sugar during digestion. I have fructose malabsorption and I find it more difficult to manage than the nut allergy because there is no consistency in the labeling. My doctor set my cutoff at 12 grams total carbs so that’s fairly generous, but I try to spend it wisely.

It's actually a problem where any high number causes inflammation and brain fog. She can take very small amounts of sugar, like a little honey in her yogurt, and seems to be better off with unprocessed sugars (honey is one, but she does very well with eating fruit). It's cane sugar that seems to get her the most. If se has a piece of cake, for example, she's off for the rest of the day.

We fortunately have found some workarounds, like a very low sugar gluten free waffle mix (she can do gluten but not gluten plus sugar like so many American baked goods).

She's prone to inflammation in general, both in her body and in her brain, so we have to really be mindful of her diet. She's also chemically sensitive, so we have to look out for preservatives.

High maintenance, sure, but I wouldn't trade her for anyone!!

 

[CharlotteStreet]

This is 100% true. I raised a severely allergic child,(yes, to wheat) and after one episode in the ER when he was young, the doc told me about the varied reactions that can happen,in the same person! I found that scariest of all TBH b/c it meant we had NO idea if his reaction could be mild,or kill him at any point. He's now an adult,and he knows within seconds if he's ingested the wrong food- Disney was always our 'safe place' to visit....this story is so very sad to hear about.

Same with my daughter. She is allergic to peanuts, but we don't know how allergic because she hasn't eaten them in 15 years. We could do a food challenge, but it's my understanding that even that might not tell us much because she could have a mild reaction with the food challenge and later have a very different reaction if she's reexposed, particularly since each exposure seems to make the allergy worse. These people who say people with allergies shouldn't eat out are not realistic. My daughter's been eating out for 15 years with no reactions. It's not unreasonable to expect allergens to be disclosed and accommodated, and they usually are.

 

[SkyGuy]

YES! I have sensitivities to certain things. Almost immediate projectile vomiting with a bite.

And, I'm allergic to Sulfa.

Two different situations. But Disney doesn't always understand the questions they are asking. I was embarrassed by a waiter who was rather loudly questioning my answers, while I sat a couple of feet away from a couple on either side who quieted and listened. Telling them I had a sensitivity wasn't computing. So I barely ate and hoped for the best.

This is me. I’ve just resulted to saying I’m allergic to the items that cause a reaction. Mine are specific items that can easily be omitted, so nothing that would cause a restaurant to fear cross-contamination or to change preparation methods. I’ve never had an issue at Disney, but I have at a few other places.