DVC Club Level and Home Resort Survey

[tidefan]

I’m not sure how it would work. Swirling around in my head are various thoughts, but try as I might to put them into words, they don’t make so much sense. I’LL try anyway, but please no one think this is true! But just like you only have a certain number of points to use on a RIV booking, the trust would only have a certain number of points it could use. The trust participant would be logged in through a special portal, and the system would know how many points the trust itself had available to spend at the resort the participant was trying to book. So the trust participant might have 300 trust points to spend, but say the trust itself only had 200 points available at that resort. The trust participant could check availability for a stay that cost 300 points, but the system would say Not Available because the trust didn’t have enough points at that resort. Does that make sense?

It’s actually because of that complexity that I like your idea that DVC might start its trust with new resorts like Poly tower and not yet sold out resorts like RIV. That would give them a large number of points at each resort for trust participants to book, and they’d just have to figure out how to let us old legacy owners book that nice new Poly tower and peaceful Ft. Wilderness cabin. As time goes on they could build up their inventory of the older resorts via ROFR, foreclosures, maybe even outright buy-backs from some of us old owners whose families don’t want our 2042 resorts. And in 2042 they’d be able to fund the renovations needed to make those resorts new again via dues.

I’m looking forward to finding out what really happens!

I think that they could roll Poly2 into the same association and still be able to work the trust because all of the units that would be added would be completely distinct units from Poly1. In other words, the problem of a contract's points being .059% of a unit or something wouldn't matter as the trust would hold the real estate interest. I may be wrong, but I could see that it would open the whole resort at 11 months, but essentially, if split mostly halfway between traditional and trust, each would be able to book about half the resort at 11 months...

 

[Jwaire]

Why don’t you think that DVD can set rules on how they give access to the trust points if that is how the write the POS for the trust?

I have found nothing in my reading so far that would prohibit it…since there is no ownership for the members of the trust in actual deeded interests, they no longer need to have the same legal rights as those who do own a deeded interest…in this case, the trust itself.

This. You would be giving up a huge advantage.

Something that hasn't really be brought up is your "guide" may no longer have to hold a real estate license.

You may still need QA for legal paperwork, but if there's no deeded interest—there's no realtor necessary and therefore no-one bound by ethical guidelines or state law.

This could all get slimy fast.

I guess we'll see.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Personally I don’t see the difference between 1000 deeded members owning 100 points each a BCV, or a trust owning 100,000 points.
With a trust you may have more people trying for the BCV advantage, but they can only give home resort advantage for the same number of points as the individual deeded owners would by trying to book.

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

I’m sure you will still be able to. I can’t imagine they would stop selling legacy points. They’ll sell whatever people are willing to buy. The developers who sell trust products (like Club Wyndham) still sell deeded interests as well.

How would pre-trust resale points work once a trust is established? And how would resale points work after a trust is set up? How soon could Disney implement this? Would we get a heads up?

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

How would pre-trust resale points work once a trust is established? And how would resale points work after a trust is set up? How soon could Disney implement this? Would we get a heads up?

I think you’re picturing a trust wrong. Points already owned by current owners (resale or direct) would not be affected by a trust. Think of the trust as a person who bought a ton of points, and they are inviting their friends to come use their points, if their friends pay them some money. That’s literally all it is. THe fact that some individual bought a ton of points that they are letting their friends use has no impact on other owners.

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

I have no interest in owning a portfolio/points/trust system personally.

I imagine a very messy situation unfolding, especially if they start dumping less desirable properties into the system.

Maybe it won't be as bad as I am thinking, but for me, the appeal has always been to own a desirable location or two, and on occasion trade into other desirable locations. The portfolio program could splash a lot of cold water on that potentially.

I do think the ROFR last year could have been a part of laying the ground work about this - but if so, why are they doing so many incentives with those points to sell them right now...

DVC has been quite inconsistent lately, and I am wondering if they don't know what to do right now... The product is in a certain way having a midlife crisis....

I think you’re picturing a trust wrong. Points already owned by current owners (resale or direct) would not be affected by a trust. Think of the trust as a person who bought a ton of points, and they are inviting their friends to come use their points, if their friends pay them some money. That’s literally all it is. THe fact that some individual bought a ton of points that they are letting their friends use has no impact on other owners.

So, people can still buy resale and those points would work like they do today?

 

[BeachClub2014]

I think that they could roll Poly2 into the same association and still be able to work the trust because all of the units that would be added would be completely distinct units from Poly1. In other words, the problem of a contract's points being .059% of a unit or something wouldn't matter as the trust would hold the real estate interest. I may be wrong, but I could see that it would open the whole resort at 11 months, but essentially, if split mostly halfway between traditional and trust, each would be able to book about half the resort at 11 months...

Imagine the heads that would explode around here!?! Many people are convinced that Poly Tower will be part of the Poly1 association in the old way. Imagine if DVC technically adds Poly Tower to the existing association but only declares units into the trust. Whewww, buddy, heads would explode.

 

[BeachClub2014]

So, people can still buy resale and those points would work like they do today?

Nobody really knows anything for certain other than the same rules, issues, challenges, and opportunities that were in place yesterday are still here today. All of the talk about the potential of a Trust is just opinion, much of which seems based on good experience, but until we see something from DVC, still just opinion.

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

Imagine the heads that would explode around here!?! Many people are convinced that Poly Tower will be part of the Poly1 association in the old way. Imagine if DVC technically adds Poly Tower to the existing association but only declares units into the trust. Whewww, buddy, heads would explode.

It would be time for cash bookings. At Universal!

 

[Paul Stupin]

I think they’d also have to figure a way for current owners of direct points to book at new resorts, to keep the direct point advantage, as well as retaining the option to buy specific resorts and use years. I don’t think Disney is going to reinvent the system, but potentially add another option to it, if they do anything at all.

 

[Sandisw]

I think that they could roll Poly2 into the same association and still be able to work the trust because all of the units that would be added would be completely distinct units from Poly1. In other words, the problem of a contract's points being .059% of a unit or something wouldn't matter as the trust would hold the real estate interest. I may be wrong, but I could see that it would open the whole resort at 11 months, but essentially, if split mostly halfway between traditional and trust, each would be able to book about half the resort at 11 months...

I think this can work too because when the Poly tower was added to the POS, it enters to be sold differently than PVB was sold..meaning as a property in a trust and not deeded.

That, at least in my mind, keeps things clean for the booking of the rooms at the tower.

To expand on my earlier thought for resorts already sold out if they did try to add parts of units, the home resort period could still be 4 months for both trust and deeded owners, but they set up the trust POS to give deeded owners a one month advantage…this way, it’s hard to argue we are not getting what we are entitled to?

It’s like some owners do book at 11 months and some don’t. The trust would be set up to basically voluntarily give up that one month.

This wouldn’t apply for units that were never declared into the resorts condo association.

 

[Sandisw]

I think you’re picturing a trust wrong. Points already owned by current owners (resale or direct) would not be affected by a trust. Think of the trust as a person who bought a ton of points, and they are inviting their friends to come use their points, if their friends pay them some money. That’s literally all it is. THe fact that some individual bought a ton of points that they are letting their friends use has no impact on other owners.

The difference is that if I buy a ton of points to use for family and friends, they are not given an account to use them…well, technically I can add 4.

However, if they did add sold out resorts and set the trust up like I mention above, with doing 11 window deeded owners and only 10 months for trust points, with all others staying at 7, then I think it could work nicely with the current POS if resorts.


But I still believe that when they start this they may not choose to add the few points they own at sold out resorts, and that the addition of those units won’t happen until they have a decent amount of ownership back at a resort to make it viable.

 

[walt34]

Personally I don’t see the difference between 1000 deeded members owning 100 points each a BCV, or a trust owning 100,000 points.

Currently you are competing against a limited number of people for your 11 months booking - only those with the same home resort. But they are real individuals. Of these people, a lot might not be interested in the high demand season you are interested in because they want to book something else during the year. Some people might even forget about booking at all and lose their points.

A trust representing a much larger group of people, owning a limited amount of points at highly attractive resorts (and a huge number of points in less desirable locations) will be very, very efficient in booking at 11 months at the desirable locations. I'm afraid this could increase competition at 11 months significantly for existing owners.

But it guess it all depends on whether the trust gets access to the existing, declared inventory via points or not.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I think this can work too because when the Poly tower was added to the POS, it enters to be sold differently than PVB was sold..meaning as a property in a trust and not deeded.

That, at least in my mind, keeps things clean for the booking of the rooms at the tower.

To expand on my earlier thought for resorts already sold out if they did try to add parts of units, the home resort period could still be 4 months for both trust and deeded owners, but they set up the trust POS to give deeded owners a one month advantage…this way, it’s hard to argue we are not getting what we are entitled to?

It’s like some owners do book at 11 months and some don’t. The trust would be set up to basically voluntarily give up that one month.

This wouldn’t apply for units that were never declared into the resorts condo association.

To pull on this thread a bit more, why are we thinking DVC will declare any Poly Tower units into the legacy PVB association? If (reinforcing that so far the Trust thingy is all speculation) DVD is rolling out DVC 2.0 (Trust), why wouldn't they declare all of the units of the shiny new tower into the trust to give it a huge roll-out? DVC presumably wants people to buy into DVC 2.0, so why even give people the option of buying Poly Tower as part of DVC 1.0?

 

[Sandisw]

To pull on this thread a bit more, why are we thinking DVC will declare any Poly Tower units into the legacy PVB association? If (reinforcing that so far the Trust thingy is all speculation) DVD is rolling out DVC 2.0 (Trust), why wouldn't they declare all of the units of the shiny new tower into the trust to give it a huge roll-out? DVC presumably wants people to buy into DVC 2.0, so why even give people the option of buying Poly Tower as part of DVC 1.0?

I think we have enough confirmation now, since the meeting, that the tower will become part of PVB. It hasn’t been clarified by DVD and guides are now permitted to tell people that.

However, being added isn’t the same thing as knowing if they intend to add it differently.. I think when they begin to declare the new units into the association, maybe via the trust instead, they could remain deeded to DVD, then it can be a hybrid association. Because the POS allows phases to be added, I don’t see anything that would prohibit this because these are new units.

Obviously, this is all pure speculation based on the actual creation of a trust and documents filed…but if they have gone that step…it would appear this idea might get up and running sooner than one might have thought based solely on a survey questions….which is where I was last week…

I definitely think there are still surprises to come and maybe the whole “Our plan right now..” is related to the trust playing some role.

 

[EYL]

Article IV, Section 2 of the Amended and Restated Articles of Incorporation of Palmetto Trust Association, Inc. states that ownership in the Trust Association would be deeded. What would they be deeding to each owner of points if it's the type of trust we are talking about here?

So this trust sounds like what my wife's friend bought at HICV, at Orange Lake Resort. If you do a "Legal Remarks" search at the OCCOMPT.com site for "Orange Lake Trust" (and narrow down the dates), trust points there are deeded.

She bought a deeded week at OL and a specific unit 6 years ago, then upgraded to their "premium points" so that she can take advantage of the "flexible timeshare program", and then upgraded to Trust Points where she can book any units that were declared into the Trust.

From what I understand, the deed you now have cannot be converted without consent. You have to join the trust. If this pans out, the model DVC is going for looks a lot like that "traditional timeshare." I wouldn't trade in, however, since I bought my points to stay where I want to stay. But if you have SAPs, this may not be a bad option. This may be the future of SAPs.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I think we have enough confirmation now, since the meeting, that the tower will become part of PVB. It hasn’t been clarified by DVD and guides are now permitted to tell people that.

However, being added isn’t the same thing as knowing if they intend to add it differently.. I think when they begin to declare the new units into the association via the trust, they could remain deeded to DVD, then it can be a hybrid association. Because the POS allows phases to be added, I don’t see anything that would prohibit this because these are new units.

Obviously, this is all pure speculation based on the actual creation of a trust and documents filed…but if they have gone that step…it would appear this idea might get up and running sooner than one might have thought based solely on a survey questions….which is where I was last week…

I definitely think there are still surprises to come and maybe the whole “Our plan right now..” is related to the trust playing some role.

I get that the Poly Tower will become part of the resort; that's what Yvonne Chang said, and that's what is being confirmed by some guides. But what hasn't been said by Chang or other execs is that the Tower will be added under the legacy rules and be available to DVC 1.0 owners. If they don't declare any units into DVC 1.0, then it wouldn't be available and would still be consistent with what Chang said, which has been subsequently confirmed by guides.

I'm not saying that is what DVC will do, but it sure wouldn't surprise me, and I sure as heck wouldn't run out and buy a Poly resale contract based on the actual information we've received from DVC, especially given DVC's motivation to sell direct points.

 

[Pooh12863]

The difference is that if I buy a ton of points to use for family and friends, they are not given an account to use them…well, technically I can add 4.

However, if they did add sold out resorts and set the trust up like I mention above, with doing 11 window deeded owners and only 10 months for trust points, with all others staying at 7, then I think it could work nicely with the current POS if resorts.


But I still believe that when they start this they may not choose to add the few points they own at sold out resorts, and that the addition of those units won’t happen until they have a decent amount of ownership back at a resort to make it viable.

You think walking is bad now wait until 20,000 trust owners get in on the action.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

So, people can still buy resale and those points would work like they do today?

Yes.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Imagine the heads that would explode around here!?! Many people are convinced that Poly Tower will be part of the Poly1 association in the old way. Imagine if DVC technically adds Poly Tower to the existing association but only declares units into the trust. Whewww, buddy, heads would explode.

I don’t see them doing this. There’s money to be made by doing it both ways. They may try to steer people towards the trust with better incentives, but I’m confident if you want to pay they’ll still sell you a legacy deed.