DVC Rental Cancellation/Insurance - Need Help!

[Bing Showei]

If I were renting to OP directly, I would certainly be open to being flexible. But from the start, I would have also charged $3/pt more than what I get from David's for my points.

The reason I will opt to take less $/pt for a transfer, or take a financial hit and rent my points through David's, is that it's mostly one-and-done. In effect, I'm paying $3/point to insulate me from renter issues. It's a convenience fee, or insurance of sorts, not unlike the insurance a renter might buy to help make themselves whole again in this situation.

 

[crisi]

Wow, you guys really are heartless.....remind me never to rent from you or David's

And please don't. If you can't abide by the terms of the contract, find someone else. If you expect me to accept your risk when you are unwilling to do so yourself, you'll be disappointed. I am not your mother, it isn't my job to make sure your life runs smoothly. Don't sign a contract that you expect will be broken on your behalf. Do you expect to get out of a car lease or a cell phone contract when its inconvenient? Do you expect your non-refundable plane tickets to get refunded? If you just stop paying your mortgage for a few months, will your bank be ok with that?

I can rent my BWV points in about half an hour through David without any hassle - and David has a waiting list of people looking to rent them. If you think "well, I'm never going to do business with you" is a valid threat, you don't understand the current reality of supply and demand for DVC point rental.

And yes, I'm being really blunt about this, not because I'm mean or cold (my Disboards persona is a lot colder than my real life personality), but because its important that people understand the terms of the contract and enter into it understanding their reservation is non-refundable. If that doesn't work for you, there are lots and lots of other options for accommodations in and around Disney. But I think that being blunt here is far better than someone ending up where the OP was and discovering that it isn't flexible and being out a few thousand dollars.

 

[crisi]

If I were renting to OP directly, I would certainly be open to being flexible. But from the start, I would have also charged $3/pt more than what I get from David's for my points.

The reason I will opt to take less $/pt for a transfer, or take a financial hit and rent my points through David's, is that it's mostly one-and-done. In effect, I'm paying $3/point to insulate me from renter issues. It's a convenience fee, or insurance of sorts, not unlike the insurance a renter might buy to help make themselves whole again in this situation.

So much this.

 

[Henwen88]

Not sure it would...people who rent through David's are well aware of the no change rule. Once it becomes "flexible", then more and more will want to ask for exceptions. One of the benefits of DVC rentals is the savings...the drawback, especially if you book through David's, is that the cancellation and refund policy is strict. Yes, people don't know in advance that something is going to happen, but one should always think it could and decide, when getting into a contract like this, how one would feel if it did. The renter should be okay with losing the money for the reservation if they decide to get into a contract like this and do not to get travel insurance. If they are not comfortable with this, then a DVC rental may not be a good option. It was one of the reasons we never, before becoming DVC members, we did rentals. I didn't like the lack of control and the no cancellation. Too risky.

I completely agree with you. The primary reason we originally bought in (after staying on a cash ressie at BCV and falling in love) was that I am too much of a control freak to not be able to handle my own reservations. Never looked back

 

[crisi]

By the way, lets turn this around and show you how ridiculous it is. Six months out from your rented reservation, the owner of the points gives you a call. Her brother and sister in law, who have always wanted to take their kids to Disney, but couldn't, can. He'll be on leave from deployment overseas, just when your reservation happens. You, of course, won't mind if she refunds your money and gives your reservation to him - after all, he's deployed overseas, this is their chance. Six months out, you can make another reservation somewhere, you aren't out any money, just a little time. "Yeah, I know I secured you a BW Food and Wine reservation, and you won't be able to stay there, but you'll be able to stay at Pop for not very much more money, and I'm sure its just as nice. And this is my brother's dream trip...."

Or your owner gives you a call "I wanted to give you a heads up - I have been laid off from work and I need to sell my points - as part of the transaction, your room will be cancelled." I'll give you as much money back as I can."

If, as a renter, I even got that sort of call from my owner, I'd be livid.

 

[DVC Doctor]

So, no, not plenty of time to re-book for someone else. And I should not be on the hook, losing the value of those points, because a renter wants a way out of a contract with strict terms.

Like you, if I were renting directly to someone, I would be more understanding. But there are reasons for choosing an agent that does not permit changes or refunds.

I NEVER said that the owner of the points should have to give the money back and I never said anyone changing their reservation can expect 100% success in finding another date as two things affect value - (1.) the expiration date of the points and the closer to the expiration date, the value drops to $0 and (2.) the ability to find another suitable date and location at or around the same point value as the original reservation, and this is super hard to do with short notice, unless you are happy at SSR

HOWEVER in this single case - the renter had 7 (SEVEN) months notice that he could not use the reservation and this is plenty of time to make a change.

Seriously, you guys are harping on this issue way too hard and rigid - if people lose money, I really don;t care, I am only giving my opinion that there should be some option for people that have similar problems. Sure it could open up pandoras box, but if thing are going to be so rigid, then the WARNING should be much harsher and stricter on the website. If the FAQ was in bold and red stating that under no situations will a change or modification be made, renters may hesitate and book direct with Disney (can cancel up to 24 hours or so) or find a less rigid source of point rentals.

It just seems to me that this detail should be highlighted and bolded to avoid any confusion (but that may be bad for business).

I feel bad for the OP but hopefully this gives others a warning to examine if renting is right for them and to make sure they are fully protected if they do.

I 100% agree with you.

 

[Madame]

I am only giving my opinion that there should be some option for people that have similar problems.

There is. They can rent a DVC room from Disney and pay rack rate.

 

[cmwade77]

By the way, lets turn this around and show you how ridiculous it is. Six months out from your rented reservation, the owner of the points gives you a call. Her brother and sister in law, who have always wanted to take their kids to Disney, but couldn't, can. He'll be on leave from deployment overseas, just when your reservation happens. You, of course, won't mind if she refunds your money and gives your reservation to him - after all, he's deployed overseas, this is their chance. Six months out, you can make another reservation somewhere, you aren't out any money, just a little time. "Yeah, I know I secured you a BW Food and Wine reservation, and you won't be able to stay there, but you'll be able to stay at Pop for not very much more money, and I'm sure its just as nice. And this is my brother's dream trip...."

Or your owner gives you a call "I wanted to give you a heads up - I have been laid off from work and I need to sell my points - as part of the transaction, your room will be cancelled." I'll give you as much money back as I can."

If, as a renter, I even got that sort of call from my owner, I'd be livid.

That is not the same situation as becoming pregnant and I am sure such a situation as you describe has occurred before and will again and I know it has, as I have seen on other forums people ask questions about what happens in this case and what ended up happening was that Disney made sure to work with the buyer so that the reservation would not get canceled. Now, the buyer didn't have to do this, nor did Disney and it was probably even against the terms of sale and Disney's policy, but both had a heart and made it work.

The OP never said they expected all of their money back, they simply asked if there were any options available and from a technical standpoint, yes there are many options that could work, it all comes down to from a contract standpoint.

Yes, the contract may say one thing, but we all know things happen in life. These days we see too much of looking out for myself and too little caring about others, I don't mean caring if we offend others, I mean truly caring about others needs. This is a prime example, many of you are here saying, "Well the contract says no refunds or changes and I wouldn't want to deal with a change."

Seriously? It took you longer to write that post than it would to log on to the member site and change names on a reservation if the OP got someone to take over their reservation for them. And you are complaining about being asked to do something like that? Heck with the new modify tool, even modifying an existing reservation's dates takes less time, especially now that it is working properly.

This thread is a prime example of what is wrong in this world, instead of having the mentality of "I won't do it because there is a slight inconvenience to me." Ask yourself how much you would appreciate it if something happened that allowed you to be accommodated in a reasonable manner. Truly, Mr. Rogers said it best, "Love is at the root of everything, all learning, all relationships, love or the lack of it."

Not being willing to try to accommodate someone just because a contract says something is indeed showing a lack of love for your fellow man. Now, if you make every reasonable effort to find another renter and thus a potential solution for the issue and fail, then that is one thing, you did the best you could. But let's say the OP had someone else lined up, they wanted the same room for the same dates, all you need to do is change the names on the reservation, why wouldn't you do that? It is simple and straight forward, yes maybe a new contract needs to be signed, again minimal time involved there. Even if the dates moved slightly but were still available and still the same number of points, again what is it to you to make a simple change online? Really takes less than 10 minutes and everyone is happy.

I know many may not like to hear the simple truth, but really this is what it boils down to:
Do you only look out for yourself or do you try to care about others and help where you can? I am in no way saying refund the money without first rerenting the points out, what I am saying is that if those points can be rerented, charge a small fee for doing so and refund the rest for example. Or if the OP has someone else, then just change the names, no big deal there either.

 

[Marionnette]

if thing are going to be so rigid, then the WARNING should be much harsher and stricter on the website. If the FAQ was in bold and red stating that under no situations will a change or modification be made, renters may hesitate and book direct with Disney (can cancel up to 24 hours or so) or find a less rigid source of point rentals.

It just seems to me that this detail should be highlighted and bolded to avoid any confusion (but that may be bad for business).

Maybe flashing neon red letters in size 18 font would make you happy?

It's in the FAQ.

The cancellation policy, for anyone who cares to inform themselves, is also available thru a link on the home page.

NON-REFUNDABLE is stated twice on the rental agreement that they sign.

If they call to speak to an agent before committing to a rental, the agent will advise the potential renter that there are no changes and no refunds.

There are more warnings on David's with respect to the cancellation policy than there are on a bottle of cough medicine!

At what point does it cease to be David's responsibility and the onus fall on the renter to do their due diligence?

 

[crisi]

That is not the same situation as becoming pregnant and I am sure such a situation as you describe has occurred before and will again and I know it has, as I have seen on other forums people ask questions about what happens in this case and what ended up happening was that Disney made sure to work with the buyer so that the reservation would not get canceled. Now, the buyer didn't have to do this, nor did Disney and it was probably even against the terms of sale and Disney's policy, but both had a heart and made it work.

.......

I know many may not like to hear the simple truth, but really this is what it boils down to:
Do you only look out for yourself or do you try to care about others and help where you can? I am in no way saying refund the money without first rerenting the points out, what I am saying is that if those points can be rerented, charge a small fee for doing so and refund the rest for example. Or if the OP has someone else, then just change the names, no big deal there either.

Setting the expectation that other people will do this is not showing love for your fellow man - if the "fellow man" - who you don't know doesn't, they are screwed. Not respecting what others are willing to do is not showing love for your fellow man, its taking advantage of them. Setting expectations for other people is not respectful. Trying to make your problems theirs is not loving. Expecting someone else to take on your risk (pregnancy would have been covered by travel insurance) is taking advantage of another human being.

Do you only look after yourself and expect strangers to bear the burdens of your life - troubles (or in this case joys) that you could have taken out insurance against? Do you not understand Kant, categorical imperatives and consequentialism? That if David starts doing it, it becomes an expectation, not an exception - and creates problems in his business model, discourages owners from providing him points.

 

[Dean]

I was thinking about this today, essentially this is situational ethics which I don't subscribe to.

 

[DVC Doctor]

I know many may not like to hear the simple truth, but really this is what it boils down to:
Do you only look out for yourself or do you try to care about others and help where you can? I am in no way saying refund the money without first rerenting the points out, what I am saying is that if those points can be rerented, charge a small fee for doing so and refund the rest for example. Or if the OP has someone else, then just change the names, no big deal there either.

That is exactly what I posted many posts ago and was pretty much shocked at how rigid and uncaring people can be on this bbs (it is quite shocking actually) as I NEVER said give the renter a refund and take a loss.

I simply am of the opinion that some effort - even if it is a minimal effort - should be done with renters that already paid for their points in full, should be allowed to make a change or modification - and you can also charge an addition fee for this service.

Think about this, a renter bought (rented) these points and at 7 months out, there is still significant value in the points if the reservation needs to be cancelled, there should be some option that the renter can take such as renting to a friend (new name) or cancelling and applying the pioints to a new reservation (total change).

No matter what - the seller will always KEEP THE MONEY, I just think they should try to work with their customers who rented points from them, sent thousands to dollars to a stranger on the Internet, and now needs to make a change.

There are TONS of positive newspaper articles about the savings with renting DVC points that directly point to this website and others and if the writer of the newspaper knew that a change was so rigid and unflexible, they might put a huge warning NOT to rent points from a member as you are locked in with no way out.

 

[DVC Doctor]

Setting the expectation that other people will do this is not showing love for your fellow man - if the "fellow man" - who you don't know doesn't, they are screwed. Not respecting what others are willing to do is not showing love for your fellow man, its taking advantage of them. Setting expectations for other people is not respectful. Trying to make your problems theirs is not loving. Expecting someone else to take on your risk (pregnancy would have been covered by travel insurance) is taking advantage of another human being.

Do you only look after yourself and expect strangers to bear the burdens of your life - troubles (or in this case joys) that you could have taken out insurance against? Do you not understand Kant, categorical imperatives and consequentialism? That if David starts doing it, it becomes an expectation, not an exception - and creates problems in his business model, discourages owners from providing him points.

You obviously do NOT follow the Golden Rule - "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and that lies the heart of this debate.

I simply have sympathy for someone that rents points from me IF they need to, have to, or simply change their mind, cancel a reservation or make a change. However, the money the paid for the points are NON-REFUNDABLE. I will simply do everything in my power (actually not that hard to do) to make a change, switch resorts, add people, rebook for another date, and any other legal combination that is allowed by DVC.

In reality, there are very few people that cancel or make major changes with a Disney reservation, BUT it happens sometimes. The funny thing is that more often than not, the change required MORE points and they have to pay more money, but they are super happy to make a change. Also, I have several people that rent from me often as they know and trust that I will provide excellent customer service.

Davids is a wonderful service and has helped thousands or renters and owners and he is a great asset to the community. But the simple fact that there are no changes to a reservation, even one made 11 months in advance is a HUGE risk that people should be aware of. Sure there are risks in renting from non-brokers, and that is a side topic.

I just follow the Golden Rule - treat people how I would want them to treat me in a similar situation. Everything else is just noise.

 

[Madame]

When I first started teaching I was very accomodating. Not feeling well? Going away on vacation? Forgot your “insert forgotten item here”? No problem. I was a sucker.

I love my students. I teach high school & buy each one (90 plus per semester) a cupcake with a candle and we sing happy birthday - and on the rare occasion I’ve forgotten, they let me know it! I even get a big cake for summer birthdays. I am not heartless, but 15 years in, I am no longer a sucker.

Word got out that I was a soft touch & I still am on some things, but my due dates are now set in stone. Miss a few tests in a row & I’ll make a harder one just for you next go round.

Miraculously, I have far fewer “emergencies” surrounding evaluations. Everyone’s excuse is an emergency. Sometimes tough love is the love that’s needed.

 

[cmwade77]

At this point, I think this thread has run its course, may I suggest to the moderators that they close it, as it appears the OP is not going to return and with all of hatred spewed towards them, I can't say I blame them for that.

 

[southerngirl528]

it appears the OP is not going to return

As I commented way earlier in this thread, the OP has not been back since their original post. Hopefully all is going well for them.

 

[Marionnette]

At this point, I think this thread has run its course, may I suggest to the moderators that they close it, as it appears the OP is not going to return and with all of hatred spewed towards them, I can't say I blame them for that.

Wow! We go from disagreeing to hatred. Strong word for those who don't see things the same way you do.

 

[DVC Doctor]

Miraculously, I have far fewer “emergencies” surrounding evaluations. Everyone’s excuse is an emergency. Sometimes tough love is the love that’s needed.

I applaud you for your dedication to teaching, however there is a HUGE difference between a student missing a homework assignment vs someone spending $$$ THOUSANDS of dollars on a DVC vacation, many times 11 months in advance of checkin, and then running into a situation where the reservation needs a modification and a broker REFUSING to allow any changes.

I am NOT suggesting giving them a free pass or give a full refund of their money back, I AM SIMPLY STATING THERE SHOULD BE SOMETHING reasonable that the owner of the DVC contract that rented (sold) the points to a stranger can do to accommodate a change or modification. Maybe it is as simply as rebooking the same accomidation (2 bedroom SSR) one month later, perhaps it is more complex like changing from a 1 bedroom OKW to a 2 bedroom VGF (and requiring more points and money) or changing all the guests on the reservation.

The fact is that DVC allows changes and modifications and now we can do it online pretty easily. Why do people have such resistance to accommodating someone that got into a jam or had some unforseen change.

What this thread has opened my eyes is to how rigid some people are and how they only care about themselves and have no empathy towards anyone else or anyone they do business with and that is pretty sad.

At this point, I think this thread has run its course, may I suggest to the moderators that they close it, as it appears the OP is not going to return and with all of hatred spewed towards them, I can't say I blame them for that.

I don't think anyone is spewing hatred, we just have a difference of opinion and in reality the haters are actually more correct than I am as they are going by the "rule of the contract" and the rule of "no changes allowed" and would probably win in court, however I am simply saying there should be some accommodations for people that need to cancel a valuable DVC reservation (possibly worth thousands of dollars) and at least, they should be able to re-use these points for a different reservation (according to DVC rules and availability) before they expire.

In no situation am I suggesting that a renter can cancel and get a full refund of their money, but if the points can be re-used or re-sold, then they should receive some credit and that is up to the DVC owners to determine what they think is fair to compensate for the extra effort to rebook.

 

[Dean]

In no situation am I suggesting that a renter can cancel and get a full refund of their money, but if the points can be re-used or re-sold, then they should receive some credit and that is up to the DVC owners to determine what they think is fair to compensate for the extra effort to rebook.

I think we agree on those words, it's the underlying intent I feel we disagree on. IMO this is a reason to work with an individual but I also believe that any flexibility or refund should be neutral or positive to the owner. Something like the renter sublets it or the owner offers it for rent a second time and gives a partial refund keeping some additional for their trouble if and only if they rent for enough to cover the additional costs/outlay. IMO it would be completely unreasonable to ask the owner to take additional risk or have additional cost/lost income.

 

[crisi]

You obviously do NOT follow the Golden Rule - "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and that lies the heart of this debate.

Actually, I do. I would not want someone to bother me, so I wouldn't bother them. I have rented DVC points once, and got insurance. The heart of this debate is "are you going to impose on someone else with your problems that you could have insured yourself against, or do you feel that is an imposition?"