Fifth Gate?

[Scalemaster34]

Based on the cost increases to AP for the last few new lands (avatar, star wars, toy story), wonder what a whole fifth gate would cost? 20% YoY increases over the next five years it took them to build it?

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

That is LMAO funny. Just got back, TSL was a ZOO!!! and there were huge waits at both RnR and TT. I am sure Star Wars will cut into waits a bit but with all the STAR Wars Geeks I am sure it will be a huge influx of people!!!

Strange to hear someone saying a Disney park is busy this summer. All I keep reading is that the parks on both coasts are half-empty.

 

[DanBoris]

Based on the cost increases to AP for the last few new lands (avatar, star wars, toy story), wonder what a whole fifth gate would cost? 20% YoY increases over the next five years it took them to build it?

I would think a new gate would cost $3 - $4 billion easy.

 

[vacationer1954]

Strange to hear someone saying a Disney park is busy this summer. All I keep reading is that the parks on both coasts are half-empty.

I think a couple of things are going on there. I think Disneyland was much less crowded than usual, and that got turned into "both coasts" by someone somewhere and the story kept being repeated even though we could clearly see 180 minute and 240 minute standby waits for some attractions in Florida. On the other hand, look at what Eddie actually said. It wasn't about the parks - it was about TSL (perhaps meaning SDD), RnR and TT. If you judge how crowded the parks are mostly by how long the waits are at the thrill rides, then you're going to see things differently from guests who mostly visit walkthroughs, take in stage shows, and spend time enjoying character experiences such as Streetmosphere.

 

[Lingerers]

Obviousley nothing will be announced this D23, I could see something Being announced at the next D23. Disney has plenty of old park plans to dust off "several that were rumored for Florida over the last 25 years" if anybody thinks that Disney is sitting by and arnt really salty about this whole thing, you really don't know Disney. NOW...Universal may have just announced this but its not old news...its been very public for a very long time...enough time to Disney to have a strategic plan in place. A new Disney park will happen it Fla by 2030

With Universal announcing the new park today do we think this will get Disney to respond in short order?

With Universal announcing the new park today do we think this will get Disney to respond in short order?

 

[Lingerers]

Maybe somebody can correct me if im wrong...but Disney doesn't need the counties permission to build anything nor submit anything to them, it was a part of the deal that they got when they came to Florida and created the RCD. So I thought I remember hearing on a show at some point in time.

I live in the Orlando area ,and many of our community’s are fast growing and lots of job growth ,odd because last month unemployment was up ,what I feel we do not have enough of is construction workers and central Florida has all these building codes .Also before a place can even build something they have to submit the plan’s to the county ,and there are a few things in central Florida that have been announced but have been delayed or cancelled .Yes this new park is happening but imo it would take years to build.

 

[Lingerers]

something might not get announced this D23 ...but maybe Next D23. There is no way this move by universal goes unanswered.

I don't know you guys. I'm convinced that a 5th gate will be announced before Iger leaves. All these new hotels, attendance up, Universal's new gate (to name a few reasons I think so) Now there is a surprise announcement at D23 added to the schedule right after Universal announced the name of their new gate? It's been 21 years since Disney has added a gate? Isn't that the longest they've gone? And what has Joe Rohde been up to anyway? Has he been working on any big projects (besides the 5th gate )? I have a feeling that my comment is going to be ripped apart by all of you, but I'm a believer! I just hope the 5th gate is something to get excited about (DisneySea). A girl can dream.... right?

The only thing that has me thinking no 5th gate is all of the comments on here (by Disney aficionados) saying "NO WAY".

5th gate posts are total click bait for me.

 

[rteetz]

Maybe somebody can correct me if im wrong...but Disney doesn't need the counties permission to build anything nor submit anything to them, it was a part of the deal that they got when they came to Florida and created the RCD. So I thought I remember hearing on a show at some point in time.

Not completely true. If it impacts water ways they have to file a south Florida water management permit.

 

[Lingerers]

Ok. Ty.

But...outside of that, which they would clear that hurdles in weeks if not months...there's nothing from stopping them from dropping in a park in mere years "5-6" from first clearing of dirt.

I seem to recall 5th gate tall out on the westside of property along 429. Heard something about them telling those few hotel developers that are out there, that they have park plans out that way within 10years.

Not completely true. If it impacts water ways they have to file a south Florida water management permit.

 

[DanBoris]

Ok. Ty.

But...outside of that, which they would clear that hurdles in weeks if not months...there's nothing from stopping them from dropping in a park in mere years "5-6" from first clearing of dirt.

I seem to recall 5th gate tall out on the westside of property along 429. Heard something about them telling those few hotel developers that are out there, that they have park plans out that way within 10years.

South Florida Water Management can take months depending on how much back and forth there is. They also sometime have to submit permits to the Florida Department of Environmental Protection. With that said, I think a park could be built in under 5 years.

There has been speculation about building a park there, but I don't see them doing that now that they are letting in all the third party development and employee housing in that area.

 

[SaharanTea]

I think a couple of things are going on there. I think Disneyland was much less crowded than usual, and that got turned into "both coasts" by someone somewhere and the story kept being repeated even though we could clearly see 180 minute and 240 minute standby waits for some attractions in Florida. On the other hand, look at what Eddie actually said. It wasn't about the parks - it was about TSL (perhaps meaning SDD), RnR and TT. If you judge how crowded the parks are mostly by how long the waits are at the thrill rides, then you're going to see things differently from guests who mostly visit walkthroughs, take in stage shows, and spend time enjoying character experiences such as Streetmosphere.

This.

I've been three of the last four summers. This was the softest of the three (not by a ton, but noticeable). Crowds still flock to the popular things. Disney still cuts staffing where they think they can. Many rides operate at half capacity during parts of the day. Other rides are notorious for being unreliable, which cuts a park's capacity and inflates wait times.

There were quite a few problems this trip that were left unexplained, which also boosted wait times (e.g., most of Frontierland being down for part of a day). RnR was down at park opening. Astro Orbiter and Primeval Whirl were unexpectedly down. The Safari was closed for about the first hour of park operation. While these are small and within the realm of normal, they add up. That's especially true when you heap the staffing control measures on top of them.

There are lots of pieces to this puzzle.

 

[sponica]

Though, with the shifting demographic, they probably could make a 5th gate with nothing but tons of foodie options, shopping for trendy mouse ears, Instagram walls and rare character meet and greets of Disney villains from the 90s and maybe some projection shows. They could call it Millennial World.
I kid .. I kid.

Not going to lie: remove the instagram walls, and I'm on board with this. And bring back the Adventurer's club!

But there are too many people going to disney, I don't want a 5th gate that might attract MORE people to Disney.

 

[sethschroeder]

Not going to lie: remove the instagram walls, and I'm on board with this. And bring back the Adventurer's club!

But there are too many people going to disney, I don't want a 5th gate that might attract MORE people to Disney.

I don't see how a 5th gate would make things busier unless it sucked. If anything its taking all these visitors they already have and trying to spread them out so they can blow their money faster.

People like to talk about how a new park would cannibalize existing attendance which it might partly but I think Disney would do a 5th gate party to get lines short around WDW so that you had a more relaxing vacation with more time to shop, snack, and eat.

What is one of the biggest things on the restaurant board? Not wanting to do sit downs because you don't have enough time. If you could give people line time back you likely would get more money out of them. Disney likely has a ton of people running the math though and possibly even screwing with wait times in the park right now to figure out if days with longer lines mean less money spent elsewhere in the park.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Haven't read all the way through this thread yet, but i think Disney does need a 5th gate. I've always been in the camp stating that they don't need one, they need to work on the current parks.

I think they need both now.

The parks are too crowded now. That’s not the reason why Disney won’t build a new park, but the level of crowds are almost unbearable now.

They've over built on hotels and are continuing the build them, they need to spread guests out better.

 

[Scalemaster34]

I would think a new gate would cost $3 - $4 billion easy.

Most cost estimates of Galaxy Edge put it at $1 Billion to add one land (two attractions) to an existing park.

Shanghai Disneyland was just under $4 billion (another billion went into other aspects of the resort) ten years ago, and it took five years to build. Not sure how Chinese labor factored into that, but I think a 5th Gate would need at lest ten attractions - maybe five lands with a major and minor attraction in each, and a few shows. Easy $6 Billion would be my guess...

Add three connected DVC Resorts.... I expect they'd still pay for it in less than five years.

But back when RADP was still the place for Disney gossip... Disney had "plans" for their 5th Gate. But Judson Green left and then Michael Eisner started facing some setback and the 5th gate dream became just a dream. In the end Epcot and AK could be built out a lot more if they need something new...

 

[Madness]

I don't know what the new land acquisitions do for them, but i remember asking about expansion on the full day behind the scenes tour maybe 10 years ago. I was told at the time that the wide world of sports complex took up the last chunk of land that could be developed into another full sized park. That wet lands and other factors such as existing (and at times poorly planned) hotels, would drive up building costs for the foreseeable future. Even then they said that most likely we would see many more park expansions before adding a 5th park.

That being said, i think there are plenty of areas where Disney could expand current parks, without needing to build a new one. For one thing both Hollywood Studios & EPCOT have large parking lots right next to the parks. With more hotels being built, and increasing parking charges, Disney is pushing more people staying on site using their transportation vs driving in for the day or driving from your on site hotel. Looking at a satellite image of the parks, you could see that building on all the lots would more or less double the size of each park.

For better or worse, Hollywood studios seems to be developing into a 2nd magic kingdom. With the acquisition of Marvel and now Fox - it's almost a certainty that as some point down the road they will build a massive park expansion to include this world as it has become even larger than Star Wars. This however won't happen any time soon - besides the park licensing issues, the fact that they are building the GotG ride at EPCOT would indicate that and more plans would be a good 10+ years away. Unless of course like i mentioned above, the GotG ride is just the first step in a planned Marvel expansion at EPCOT. I truly hope not as (next to loosing the great movie ride) this inclusion is one of my biggest problems with Disney's new direction. I'm ok with making Hollywood Studios another Magic Kingdom with different themed lands. But EPCOT has been and should continue to be a place that mixes education and fun. Unfortunately more and more it seems to be loosing that identity. I truly hope some of these changes are just a stop gap to get popular properties into a park while long term development plans are in the works and not the beginning of the end. Mission Space is getting old and needs updating as is Journey into Imagination which at this point seems less and less in tune with the new direction of EPCOT.

Disney is definitely making big moves, yet i still doubt we'll see a full new park. All these moves seem to be more about increasing efficiency and getting the most out of the existing parks but not necessarily expanding capacity.

 

[Viking7641]

Wait till there is a global recession without the normal governmental options to recover and then tell me they are going to put $6 billion into a theme park.

There will still be a whole lot of upper middle class/leisure class with disposable income that are insulated from it, but they aren't all going to be propping Disney parks up with that money during it.

 

[JimmyBean42]

By far always my favorite rumor thread that I can't resist clicking on. Love the discussion of a Villains park but let's be honest, Disney would never strictly do a bad-guy theme. A land or area, maybe. A whole park, even though we'd love it, I just don't think appeals to a mainstream audience the way it does to us. Wishful thinking but great wishful thinking.

But if we are going wishful thinking for a 5th gate here's mine: incorporate Fox IP's (would love a 'Die Hard' Nakatomi Plaza (w/ forced perspective of course) ride. Or Planet of the Apes land. Alien ride or Independence day spaceship ride. Options are endless). Then somehow, someway ($$$$$) break that iron clad forever contract with the Universal & Marvel and finally get a real Marvel area. Splash in the Villains area. And build a hotel inside the park (logistical nightmare but again wishful thinking).

 

[DVC_HK]

I don't think the big reveal will be a 5th gate but they are going to show off a new expansion somewhere. Epcot got the spotlight last year IMO aside to SWGE so maybe they move back to AK and dinoland will actually be replaced. It seems they haven't renewed the contract for primeval whirl yet and why would they if they were to reimagine it? Just my 2 cents that's all

 

[Spaghetti Cat]

I was told at the time that the wide world of sports complex took up the last chunk of land that could be developed into another full sized park.

Aha! A 5th gate could replace the WWoS complex! What kind of attendance does that see when compared to the parks? Could just use the stadium for a nightime spectacular and still rent it to Pop Warner during the day.