"Greedflation" at Disney?

[BroadwayHermione5]

Oh this is hitting everywhere.


A primary example that’s not a travel destination? TICKETMASTER look at what happened. Even before the pandemic people like Lady Gaga were calling out the BS.

As someone in the entertainment industry, certain things that keep plays and tv shows and films running had to unfortunately follow inflation and cost more, which of course leads to higher prices to things like tickets and subscription services. But what happened with Taylor Swift caused chaos (and rightfully so-and I don’t fully blame her. Not her fault something that might’ve cost 2 grand her last tour now costs at the least 6 grand but still did you need to “dive” into water?) but what Ticketmaster did completely disrespects artists and fans/concertgoers alike. It’s ridiculous and insane and for once it garnered the attention it should have.

It’s hitting everywhere. I remember when I was in high school and the big broadway news story was young Frankenstein costing $300 for premium seats….that was 2008. A premium seat now…..$710 for Hamilton. $595 for phantom. I saw phantom for the first time in 2005 and for front row (which are premium now) my parents maybe paid $139 a seat. I don’t even want to think about that number now.

Even before the pandemic I was cutting down on seeing movies in theatres. In 2019 I went to 2 movies: avengers endgame and rise of Skywalker (very obvious for me lol). Even then one ticket to a non prime time showing (I think for the latter I actually did a Tuesday at like 5pm): almost $20 for non imax or Dolby or specialty seats (I did do specialty seats because I considered these not to miss and a treat myself moment) but still even then I was like oh no no no no no.

Sometimes you just have to say no. It’s a sad reality, but I’ve learned to say no.

 

[Dcgc28]

It seems pretty clear that it's greed, given the data about the profits being posted. The price hikes are outpacing the cost of production and wages. The data doesn't lie.

I don’t think anyone is arguing there’s a ton of greed involved. But the market could solve it, if people stopped going they’d have to adjust.

The problem is people are still going to go to Hawaii and Disney so they have the power.

 

[starlite_]

This is why Native Hawaiians have been begging ppl to stop going there.

 

[DLgal]

I’ll put my real estate broker hat on now and wager that if he could reap the benefit of the 70% appreciation in value that she should sell her investment property and 1031 exchange it to something with better cash flow. Or take the increased equity out of the property tax free (if she doesn’t sell it).

I honestly don't know why she hasn't sold it. In 2021, it was briefly worth literally twice what she paid for it in 2015. She was dumb not to kick us out and sell. She has an identical model home a few streets over that she allowed to remain vacant for several years after she had bad luck with a string of unreliable renters. I'm surprised she didn't offload that one too. Instead she just used it as her winter house (she lives in Boston). She is currently renting that one out for market rate. We are doing her a favor by being stable renters who have paid on time for 8 years and have gone above and beyond to take care of her house so that when she does go to sell it, she won't have to put much into fixing it up.

The renter/landlord relationship can be a mutually beneficial one. But in the end, landlords are still greedy. Literally doing no work and making money hand over fist, simply because they were in a position to buy a property when someone else wasn't. It's exploitative by nature, the same as corporations charging exorbitant prices for essential goods when their costs don't require them to.

 

[gmi3804]

She was dumb not to kick us out and sell.

She doesn’t have to kick you out to sell. A buyer would have to honor your lease. Sometimes an established renter looks good on an income property listing.

 

[DLgal]

I don’t think anyone is arguing there’s a ton of greed involved. But the market could solve it, if people stopped going they’d have to adjust.

The problem is people are still going to go to Hawaii and Disney so they have the power.

For now, maybe. There are signs that attendance is drying up at WDW, at least. These things take some time to reflect consumer sentiment.

 

[DLgal]

She doesn’t have to kick you out to sell. A buyer would have to honor your lease. Sometimes an established renter looks good on an income property listing.

I meant just not allow us to keep renewing. Not literally kick us out.

 

[wkrainey]

There are a couple of low-cost sub-options under the heading of increased capacity that they could easily do; things that they *know* will work because they were done in the past at the same parks, and things that would hugely improve customer satisfaction, particularly as we head into summer.

Top of the list is to restore unlimited parkhopping. The parks used to naturally even out in terms of capacity when this was the case. Once upon a time if you got to a park and it was too crowded for your taste, you could just get on a bus and switch to one that wasn't so bad; it would be even easier now with the app. Even if WDW adopted a practice of declaring "surprise" same-day free hopping days it would help, even if they left MK out sometimes.

The second thing is to go back to the practice of extending hours on the fly, especially at MK. This used to happen all the time when the parks were crowded; there would be sandwich signs put out that declared the extended hours. Obviously, now it could be done with the app, and could even be restricted to notifying only visitors who are already inside the theme park. (And yes, guests could certainly post it on social media, but that wouldn't necessarily get those notified that way into the park.) Pay CMs overtime and close most food vendors and stores after the original hours, leaving mostly ride operations and custodial to work the extended hours. I'm betting that they will get a lot more volunteers when the extra hours are at night when the heat isn't making everyone miserable. (And I believe that in the current economy there are plenty of people who would be happy to augment their income by taking a p/t job at theme parks working night hours only.)

PS: As to "greedflation" in general, what did you expect? The pandemic caused whole sectors (especially tourism) to lose a LOT of money for 2 years. Those businesses that managed to survive naturally want to make up the losses, and they are going to try every legal trick in the book to make it happen. I predict that travel pricing will begin to soften sooner rather than later, as all of the long-planned "hallejulah, it's finally over" trips get completed, and inflation in household expenses reduces disposable income for life's frills.

None of these options increase capacity though. They're customer satisfaction increasing tools, but don't help capacity. I would argue that eliminating extra hours and making it a hard ticketed event creates increased capacity more than surprise extra hours.

Park hopping isn't going to go back to a free for all, I figure best case scenario It'll get down to Noon or 10am while park passes exist. The added benefit of knowing how many people are visiting a park and being able to staff it outweighs convenience for guests. I'll add that Disney likely did the extended hours on the fly as a way to compensate for slow sales that day because of not being able to balance park attendance in the way they wanted. This may also seem like a weird concept, but people want to leave when they're scheduled to go versus having to work mandatory OT they weren't expecting. Sometimes it's nice, but when a park stays open late on the fly, that means thousands of employees who were expecting to go home at X time are now forced to stay until Y. When I was 20 working in the parks that was fine, I was single and taking time off college, as an adult with a family, I would dread these days.

 

[RamblingMad]

Businesses in a competitive environment are supposed to maximise profits. It would be wrong if they werent.

prices are set by what consumers are willing to pay and have nothing to do with costs. If prices have gone up its simply cos consumers are willing to pay them. Blame consumers for high disney prices.

I blame easy credit. Lots of people that can’t afford something borrow to pay for it and drive up prices. They eventually file for bankruptcy. But the damage is already done to prices.

When we have a credit tightening cycle like what’s starting this year, the easy credit goes away, and those previously high prices no longer have the demand to support them.

I expect heavy discounts towards the end of this year and into next year. It’s already happening to PCs. It’s only a matter of time before other areas are impacted.

 

[jdrasin]

The free market only works properly when you have lots of choice (suppliers, consumers, etc...) Monopolies don't follow the same supply/demand curve as a free market.

 

[Obi-J Kenobi]

I see a lot of this "Greedflation" hitting all areas of entertainment. For instance, to get an Americinn hotel in rural Wisconsin for the NASCAR race costs $249 / night. If I book it for this weekend (a non-event weekend), it is $109 / night. There are no extra amenities. There are no extra benefits. It is the same room, same bed, same everything for the price.

Plus, the "greed" comes in that there are 2 or 3 night minimums, so you cannot justify it as a one night expense and cost of doing business. No you are stuck for 2or 3 nights of "greedflation" for a one day event? Needless to say, I won't be going to the NASCAR race with my son as it would cost us well over $1,000 for tickets, hotel, gas, and food.

 

[Brian Noble]

It is the same room, same bed, same everything for the price.

Well, except for the fact that without a race going on there is no reason to be in rural Wisconsin during "mud season".

 

[RamblingMad]

https://www.vox.com/podcasts/23682466/inflation-prices-us-economy

 

[jujubiee4]

‘We may be looking at the end of capitalism’​

One of the world’s oldest and largest investment banks warns ‘Greedflation’ has gone too far.​

https://fortune.com/2023/04/05/end-...edflation-societe-generale-corporate-profits/

I'm seeing it everywhere but the travel/entertainment/hospitality business is especially stinging.
Interesting enough I haven't seen it too much with my airline flight prices. We are still going ahead
with planned trips this year BUT may pull back next year or not go at all. I know companies are
trying to still make up lost profits due to pandemic so will cut a bit of slack but..........

*saw the above article this morning and made me think of this thread.

 

[Obi-J Kenobi]

Well, except for the fact that without a race going on there is no reason to be in rural Wisconsin during "mud season".

Plymouth Wisconsin is 20 minutes to debatably one of the five greatest golf courses in America, Whistling Straights.

 

[BostonEd]

Hasn’t worked any time it’s been tried.

Uh, yeah it has. Plenty of empirical evidence proving it.

 

[Brian Noble]

Plymouth Wisconsin is 20 minutes to debatably one of the five greatest golf courses in America, Whistling Straights.

Sure. It's April. In Wisconsin.

Also, even if you're sending a foursome every 6 minutes or so (certainly faster than any course I've played), you still aren't sending more than five or six hundred people per day. If there are enough hotels in the area to handle the "I don't want to camp in the infield" crowd, there are more than enough to handle that.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

Uh, yeah it has. Plenty of empirical evidence proving it.

I’d love to see it.

 

[wkrainey]

I honestly don't know why she hasn't sold it. In 2021, it was briefly worth literally twice what she paid for it in 2015. She was dumb not to kick us out and sell. She has an identical model home a few streets over that she allowed to remain vacant for several years after she had bad luck with a string of unreliable renters. I'm surprised she didn't offload that one too. Instead she just used it as her winter house (she lives in Boston). She is currently renting that one out for market rate. We are doing her a favor by being stable renters who have paid on time for 8 years and have gone above and beyond to take care of her house so that when she does go to sell it, she won't have to put much into fixing it up.

The renter/landlord relationship can be a mutually beneficial one. But in the end, landlords are still greedy. Literally doing no work and making money hand over fist, simply because they were in a position to buy a property when someone else wasn't. It's exploitative by nature, the same as corporations charging exorbitant prices for essential goods when their costs don't require them to.

I see a lot of this "Greedflation" hitting all areas of entertainment. For instance, to get an Americinn hotel in rural Wisconsin for the NASCAR race costs $249 / night. If I book it for this weekend (a non-event weekend), it is $109 / night. There are no extra amenities. There are no extra benefits. It is the same room, same bed, same everything for the price.

Plus, the "greed" comes in that there are 2 or 3 night minimums, so you cannot justify it as a one night expense and cost of doing business. No you are stuck for 2or 3 nights of "greedflation" for a one day event? Needless to say, I won't be going to the NASCAR race with my son as it would cost us well over $1,000 for tickets, hotel, gas, and food.

That's supply and demand, not greed. The hotel has a set number of rooms they can rent. As demand for those rooms increases so does price.


The 2-3 night minimums are required because most guests probably want multiple days. The hotel gives guests booking multiple days priority because then they can get 3 days of use on that one hotel room regardless of price. Lets say the hotel has 10 rooms available 365 days a year. To reach maximum capacity and in exchange maximum revenue, they would potentially need 3,650 reservations. Any multi-day reservations would mean less reservations required, and would be a priority for the business. Especially if the hotel is regularly below capacity most of the year except for single day events like this race.

 

[Obi-J Kenobi]

That's supply and demand, not greed. The hotel has a set number of rooms they can rent. As demand for those rooms increases so does price.


The 2-3 night minimums are required because most guests probably want multiple days. The hotel gives guests booking multiple days priority because then they can get 3 days of use on that one hotel room regardless of price. Lets say the hotel has 10 rooms available 365 days a year. To reach maximum capacity and in exchange maximum revenue, they would potentially need 3,650 reservations. Any multi-day reservations would mean less reservations required, and would be a priority for the business. Especially if the hotel is regularly below capacity most of the year except for single day events like this race.

Hotels (whether its Green Bay for a Packers game or Plymouth for Road America or Sheboygan for a golf major) require multiple day minimum stays because then they make guests pay super high rates for longer periods of time. The hotels got'cha, they know it, I know it, you know it, and fans either pay it or aren't going.

It's like buying a single beer at the PGA Championship. $18 for one Michelob Ultra. What are the patrons going to do? You can't BYOB. You don't have options but one vendor: the PGA. The PGA's got'cha, they know it, I know it, you know it, and a patron must pay $18 or you're not getting a single beer. Justin Thomas who is a multi-millionaire professional golfer was left scratching his head how charging $18 for a single beer is treating the fans well? Is the PGA not going to make a profit off a $12 can of beer?

Well...JT knows the PGA is screwing fans over, I know it, you know it, and what's going to change? Nothing.

It's greed. It's the human condition. And you don't have to give some long justification for what is a very simple answer.