HELP! EBTA cruisers, didn't leave the country?

[olafLover]

Well, the wording isn't really clear in the e-mail, like I said a lot of people misunderstood! You don't really expect this to happen. I travel a lot and know a lot of people who travel a lot to the US, nobody we told ever heard of this. Disney really should take responsibility and help their guest by notifying them. The only reason we're having this issue is because we were on THIS particular Disney Cruise

Oh and also, the site the CBP directs you to has nothing on it what to do if their information is incorrect. Really, in their FAQ they say the only options you have if you get the e-mail is leave of ask for citizenship

 

[truck1]

Well, the wording isn't really clear in the e-mail, like I said a lot of people misunderstood! You don't really expect this to happen. I travel a lot and know a lot of people who travel a lot to the US, nobody we told ever heard of this. Disney really should take responsibility and help their guest by notifying them. The only reason we're having this issue is because we were on THIS particular Disney Cruise

Well that's our government. If its not convoluted and vague, its not being done right.
What I was asking though is that does everyone from overseas, with a few exceptions have to apply for a visa to travel to the US for a vacation.

 

[Lilsia]

Read this please

I understand that you think that Disney is some how obligated or responsible either legally or morally to notify people. I am saying that they are not. It would be good customer service, but they are not responsible. I wouldn't even trust that they knew what they were talking about. This is a complicated issue that maybe a small handful of people at Disney would even really understand the issue. By the time it goes up the Disney bureaucratic chain, it's already too late. Disney is a company that likes it's chain of command, things do not get done quickly that way. Right or wrong, to keep harping on what Disney should/should not have done is pointless. Even more pointless to keep contacting them about the situation. The OP got informed by the government about their "overstay", that is where the issue lies and who should be notifying anyone in this situation. Get a lawyer to deal with it.

 

[olafLover]

Well that's our government. If its not convoluted and vague, its not being done right.
What I was asking though is that does everyone from overseas, with a few exceptions have to apply for a visa to travel to the US for a vacation.

We don't apply for a visa, we apply for an ESTA and with that we'll get our visa at the border (just a stamp with entry date), we've never had an exit stamp exiting the US (I have for every other country that requires a visa). Your ESTA in valid for 2 years and in that 2 years you can enter as often as you like, but you can only stay 90 days each time. This is the light-weight-visa the US has for the EU and probably a few other countries

 

[Miffy]

olafLover: I'm not a cruiser and I'm not a European, but I am 150,000% on your side. I cannot believe anyone on this thread--or anywhere--is defending Disney re this difficulty.

DCL should be notifying every single person who was on that cruise about this problem. It's a great big deal, not a little glitch. Too hard to notify every cruiser? Nonsense. If someone in the Disney accounting department realized yesterday that everyone on this cruise had been undercharged $250, they'd notify every single cruiser immediately, demanding payment.

I keep thinking about people who aren't on social media--I'm not--and if I also weren't on the DISboards, I wouldn't even know about this problem. There are probably at least a few people who were on that cruise who have no way of knowing about what happened. DCL may not have been at fault for what happened--and for those of you who haven't read all the OP's posts, the OP is not trying to pin the blame on anyone at all--but they sure as heck could notify people about it. I don't care how difficult it might be to do it. It's not like they have to crawl through a field of broken glass in order to accomplish it.

 

[truck1]

We don't apply for a visa, we apply for an ESTA and with that we'll get our visa at the border (just a stamp with entry date), we've never had an exit stamp exiting the US (I have for every other country that requires a visa). Your ESTA in valid for 2 years and in that 2 years you can enter as often as you like, but you can only stay 90 days each time. This is the light-weight-visa the US has for the EU and probably a few other countries

Ok. Thank you. Im just trying to wrap my head around how vacationers come and go.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

FWIW, even junior clerks overseas tend to be experienced career State employees, and not random political appointees. They're pretty coherent.

 

[BadPinkTink]

I dont think the USA people here really fully understand the implications here and WHY its such a big deal that ALL the Europeans on the cruise NEED to know about this.

Unfortunately USA Border Control don't care why you have an over stay on your ESTA. All that will happen is that on the ESTA database it will automatically log the overstay. Whether people are notified or not, whether they are aware of the current issue with DCL or not, every single European, adults, children and babies who were passengers on the transatlantic cruise, now have an overstay logged in the ESTA database.

As far as we know, the majority of these people are unaware of the situation.

I'm sure we can assume that many of the Europeans who were passengers on the transatlantic cruise may in the future wish to visit either Disneyland California or Walt Disney World or return to USA for any number of reasons. Also ESTA is also needed for visits to USA territories such as Guam, Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands.

As an ESTA is valid for 2 years, anyone booking flights to USA whose ESTA is valid until April / May 2021 will have no reason to check if their eligibility to enter USA has changed. They will just book flights, hotels, Disney tickets etc etc.

They will only find out when they go to the airport and try to check in for their flight. ESTA information shows up on the airline check in computer screen. If you do not have a valid ESTA you are not allowed to board the flight. Before 2018 you could get an ESTA at check in as it was processed in real time. However since December 2018, ESTA's are not processed in real time. It is going to be a nightmare for these people, to be denied boarding the flight, due to the c.ock up by DCL in 2019

Maybe in 3, 5 or 10 years time other people will go to this website https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/ and try to get a new ESTA for their next visit to USA. They will only find out about the c.ock up by DCL in 2019 when they get denied an ESTA.

Also just an explanation about ESTA for non Europeans.

Electronic System for Travel Authorisation is not a visa. It is is an automated system that determines the eligibility of visitors to travel to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program.
The Visa Waiver Program is a program of the United States Government which allows citizens of specific countries to travel to the United States for tourism, business, or while in transit for up to 90 days without having to obtain a visa.

These countries are

1. Andorra
2. Australia
3. Austria
4. Belgium
5. Brunei
6. Chile
7. Czech Republic
8. Denmark
9. Estonia
10. Finland
11. France
12. Germany
13. Greece
14. Hungary
15. Iceland
16. Ireland
17. Italy
18. Japan
19. Latvia
20. Liechtenstein
21. Lithuania
22. Luxembourg
23. Malta
24. Monaco
25. Netherlands
26. New Zealand
27. Norway
28. Portugal
29. San Marino
30. Singapore
31. Slovakia
32. Slovenia
33. South Korea
34. Spain
35. Sweden
36. Switzerland
37. Taiwan
38. United Kingdom

 

[Lilsia]

I dont think the USA people here really fully understand the implications here and WHY its such a big deal that ALL the Europeans on the cruise NEED to know about this.

Unfortunately USA Border Control don't care why you have an over stay on your ESTA. All that will happen is that on the ESTA database it will automatically log the overstay. Whether people are notified or not, whether they are aware of the current issue with DCL or not, every single European, adults, children and babies who were passengers on the transatlantic cruise, now have an overstay logged in the ESTA database.

As far as we know, the majority of these people are unaware of the situation.

I'm sure we can assume that many of the Europeans who were passengers on the transatlantic cruise may in the future wish to visit either Disneyland California or Walt Disney World or return to USA for any number of reasons. Also ESTA is also needed for visits to USA territories such as Guam, Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands.

As an ESTA is valid for 2 years, anyone booking flights to USA whose ESTA is valid until April / May 2021 will have no reason to check if their eligibility to enter USA has changed. They will just book flights, hotels, Disney tickets etc etc.

They will only find out when they go to the airport and try to check in for their flight. ESTA information shows up on the airline check in computer screen. If you do not have a valid ESTA you are not allowed to board the flight. Before 2018 you could get an ESTA at check in as it was processed in real time. However since December 2018, ESTA's are not processed in real time. It is going to be a nightmare for these people, to be denied boarding the flight, due to the ***** up by DCL in 2019

Maybe in 3, 5 or 10 years time other people will go to this website https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/ and try to get a new ESTA for their next visit to USA. They will only find out about the ***** up by DCL in 2019 when they get denied an ESTA.

Also just an explanation about ESTA for non Europeans.

Electronic System for Travel Authorisation is not a visa. It is is an automated system that determines the eligibility of visitors to travel to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program.
The Visa Waiver Program is a program of the United States Government which allows citizens of specific countries to travel to the United States for tourism, business, or while in transit for up to 90 days without having to obtain a visa.

These countries are

1. Andorra
2. Australia
3. Austria
4. Belgium
5. Brunei
6. Chile
7. Czech Republic
8. Denmark
9. Estonia
10. Finland
11. France
12. Germany
13. Greece
14. Hungary
15. Iceland
16. Ireland
17. Italy
18. Japan
19. Latvia
20. Liechtenstein
21. Lithuania
22. Luxembourg
23. Malta
24. Monaco
25. Netherlands
26. New Zealand
27. Norway
28. Portugal
29. San Marino
30. Singapore
31. Slovakia
32. Slovenia
33. South Korea
34. Spain
35. Sweden
36. Switzerland
37. Taiwan
38. United Kingdom

We understand what a huge deal this is. That is why contacting the correct people is important. GET A LAWYER. That is the best advice that you can get when in these situations. Like I said before, my whole family has immigrated here and many of them still live in the home country and travel here. So we are familiar with overstaying issues. This is not something that is easily resolved with a couple of phone calls, only because you are dealing with the government. Look at it from Disney's standpoint. They did everything right, it got messed up once the government had control. They have had a few people call them and inform them of the issue, the government did not call Disney. There is nothing that Disney can do. I imagine they would assume that after getting a few calls, that people are being notified by the government so there is no reason for Disney to send anything out. They don't want you contacting them, it is not their issue to solve. Like it or not, companies don't want to get involved in government issues. If that makes them jerks, so be it. I may not like it, but I completely understand why.

 

[lilsonicfan]

We understand what a huge deal this is. That is why contacting the correct people is important. GET A LAWYER. That is the best advice that you can get when in these situations. Like I said before, my whole family has immigrated here and many of them still live in the home country and travel here. So we are familiar with overstaying issues. This is not something that is easily resolved with a couple of phone calls, only because you are dealing with the government. Look at it from Disney's standpoint. They did everything right, it got messed up once the government had control. They have had a few people call them and inform them of the issue, the government did not call Disney. There is nothing that Disney can do. I imagine they would assume that after getting a few calls, that people are being notified by the government so there is no reason for Disney to send anything out. They don't want you contacting them, it is not their issue to solve. Like it or not, companies don't want to get involved in government issues. If that makes them jerks, so be it. I may not like it, but I completely understand why.

You are missing the current point, which is that a significant number of guests from Europe may not even be aware of the issue at all. How it gets resolved is the second step; the first step is being aware at all - something that DCL could assist in, without difficulty. DCL has already acknowledged they can assist by providing proof that people can submit to CBP as part of that resolution step. The issue is that DCL is waiting for those guests to contact them, rather than being proactive, even though they know that so far 100% of the guests who have contacted them have faced this issue, and even though they also know that people are having to find out through social media.

Also I would like to say that we have no assurance Disney "did everything right". They weren't even supposed to take these European guests' passports, but they sure did take them - and with no explanation at all, creating massive chaos at the port. At port, they couldn't even tell any of us when we would get them back, and they had to make an announcement on board after obviously Guest Services was swamped with questions about when we would get them back.

But the more important point is: many people may still be unaware. DCL is uniquely in the position of being able to notify those guests, as they have all of the info. Those guests would not be in this situation were it not for cruising this specific EBTA. It is not asking much for DCL to be proactive in notifying its own guests that there could be a situation. It would not take so much time as to be prohibitive - look how fast they get out emails when they cancel ports like Puerto Rico due to civil unrest.

 

[BadPinkTink]

@Lilsia thats all very well to say get a lawyer, but the majority of people affected DONT KNOW about the situation. How can people get a lawyer when they dont know there is a problem that they need to get legal advice about??

Like I said above, most people affected will only find out in months and years in the future, when it is too late for them.

 

[Lilsia]

You are missing the current point, which is that a significant number of guests from Europe may not even be aware of the issue at all. How it gets resolved is the second step; the first step is being aware at all - something that DCL could assist in, without difficulty. DCL has already acknowledged they can assist by providing proof that people can submit to CBP as part of that resolution step. The issue is that DCL is waiting for those guests to contact them, rather than being proactive, even though they know that so far 100% of the guests who have contacted them have faced this issue, and even though they also know that people are having to find out through social media.

I am not missing the point, I completely understand what you are saying. I am saying that it would be a nice gesture for Disney to send something out but they are not obligated to do so. It is the government's obligation to let people know if there is an issue.

 

[lilsonicfan]

@Lilsia of course DCL isn't OBLIGATED to do something. Again, the point is that they absolutely can, and that they should. Of course they should. As noted this problem would not have occurred if these guests did not take this specific cruise. A problem occurred in relation to one of their cruises. It's like the whole Boeing Max airplanes being grounded - it isn't the airline's fault that a particular airplane is being grounded, and the various governments put out a notification, but guests also expect (reasonably, IMO) to be notified by their airline of cancellations.

 

[Lilsia]

@Lilsia thats all very well to say get a lawyer, but the majority of people affected DONT KNOW about the situation. How can people get a lawyer when they dont know there is a problem that they need to get legal advice about??

Like I said above, most people affected will only find out in months and years in the future, when it is too late for them.

How do you know that people "don't know'. Maybe they just don't go on social media to complain about stuff. The OP has said that they got an email about it but overlooked it. That could be true with others also. It would be nice if Disney tried to contact everyone. But I am not going to villainize them over it. I can see it from their end where they don't want people contacting them over it when there is nothing that they can do.

 

[Kennywood]

Where DCL is failing here is that they're barely being REactive, let alone attempting to be PROactive. They would do themselves a world of good by taking point on this and helping their European guests.

As a salesman, I'll have customers ask me to get something for them. If there's a problem with what my customer receives, they don't contact the manufacturer or the shipping company. They contact me, and rightfully so. I am their point-of-contact. Even though I didn't cause the problem, my customer expects me to solve it for them. I'll get on the phone or send emails until the problem is resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

Perhaps DCL didn't do anything wrong. That's not the point. DCL is the guests' point-of-contact. It's not up to guests to play detective and find out who dropped the ball. The guest handed the proverbial ball to DCL.

It wouldn't be difficult for DCL to search their data base to figure out what guests are non-American. Every guest provides contact information to DCL when the reservations are made.

From a public relations point-of-view, DCL is being seen in a very negative way, rightfully so or not. DCL should have gotten out in front of this, as soon as they were aware that their guests were experiencing a very significant problem.

 

[Lilsia]

Where DCL is failing here is that they're barely being REactive, let alone atempting to be PROactive. They would do themselves a world of good by taking point on this and helping their European guests.

As a salesman, I'll have customers ask me to get something for them. If there's a problem with what my customer receives, they don't contact the manufacturer or the shipping company. They contact me, and rightfully so. I am their point-of-contact. Even though I didn't cause the problem, my customer expects me to solve it for them. I'll get on the phone or send emails until the problem is resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

Perhaps DCL didn't do anything wrong. That's not the point. DCL is the guests' point-of-contact. It's not up to guests to play detective and find out who dropped the ball. The guest handed the proverbial ball to DCL.

It's wouldn't be difficult for DCL to search their data base to figure out what guests are non-American. Every guest provides contact information to DCL when the reservations are made.

From a public relations point-of-view, DCL is being seen in a very negative way, rightfully so or not. DCL should have gotten out in front of this, as soon as they were aware that their guests were experiencing a very significant problem.

We are dealing with the government here. It is not the same thing as buying a product with a private company, not even close. If Disney sent out 1 email saying there may be an issue and to contact the government, then everyone would be happy? I don't think so. Then everyone would be saying that Disney should fix it some how. I think this is no win situation for anyone.

 

[Kennywood]

With all due respect, it is the same thing.

In my example, my customer had a problem and came to me. The cause of the problem wasn't anything I did, but I still work to resolve it. I contact the vendor or manufacturer. If the problem is with them, we work together to correct the problem ASAP. It is then my responsibility to tell the customer what's being done to resolve the problem.

if the vendor or manufacturer did nothing wrong, then they find out where the problem occurred. Perhaps it was with the carrier. My vendor or manufacturer gets the problem resolved. They then contact me to tell me what is being done. I then, again, contact my customer and let them know. At no point is the carrier, manufacturer, or vendor contacting my customer. The information to my customer flows through me. The customer is my responsibility, not someone else's.

DCL should have found out what happened when they handed off the guests' information. And they should have kept after that agency until they had answers. Yes, it might take some time for that agency to then take the next step, but it's DCL's duty to keep on top of the situation. They can't afford to sit back and wait until someone feels like doing something. DCL carries a pretty big "stick". This is an occasion where it should be used for the benefit of their guests.

 

[olafLover]

When in doubt, go right to the top.

Jeff Vahle is the President of Disney Signature Experiences, which includes Disney Cruise Line.

You might try sending an email to him. I tried to find his exact email address, but couldn't. I would try

• jeff.vahle@disney.com
• jeff.vahle@disneyworld.com
• jeff.vahle@disneycruise.com

You might carbon copy: dcl.guest.communications@disneycruise.com

Make sure your email states that this problem affects a LOT of travelers on the cruise, not just you.

Yes, Disney might have taken things as far as they think they can go, but they carry a LOT of international weight. They might be able to put pressure on their end to resolve this. If nothing else, they'll be made aware of the fact that SOMEONE screwed up things for a LOT of their guests. They will not be please about this.

Ok, I'm in total shock right now, I actually got a response!
They're aware and working on it?? Which, isn't what they said the day before yesterday

 

[olafLover]

How do you know that people "don't know'. Maybe they just don't go on social media to complain about stuff. The OP has said that they got an email about it but overlooked it. That could be true with others also. It would be nice if Disney tried to contact everyone. But I am not going to villainize them over it. I can see it from their end where they don't want people contacting them over it when there is nothing that they can do.

We know because we, as the social media group, have been actively trying to contact everybody we know that might be affected and each and every day new people are reached who didn't know

We are dealing with the government here. It is not the same thing as buying a product with a private company, not even close. If Disney sent out 1 email saying there may be an issue and to contact the government, then everyone would be happy? I don't think so. Then everyone would be saying that Disney should fix it some how. I think this is no win situation for anyone.

Yes, then I would be happy! There is a website where you can check your status, no need to contact the government to find out if you're affected or not and you send the proof DCL provides and then you wait, and wait and wait. But at least you won't be stranded at an airport or unable to ever obtain the proof needed because it's over 10 ago it happened

 

[KashasMom]

Ok, I'm in total shock right now, I actually got a response!
They're aware and working on it?? Which, isn't what they said the day before yesterday

Sending you positive vibes and hoping this gets resolved for you and the others VERY soon...because I just can't read anymore stupid comments in this thread.