Help with issues with my ex-husband--edit

[tylerandalexsmom]

It's ok, thank you for your concern. I'm just trying to understand this. The letter the bank sent to me is dated from August 1st, but I just got it today. And the info I have about the sale of the house is that it was going to be finalized in July. So I'm wondering why it took so long to pay off the bank then? And why they took so long to send that letter? There is literally no information contained in the letter from the bank, I've read it at least 10 times, there is just one sentence stating the loan was "paid off/or refinanced" and that is a direct quote from my letter. then 2 paragraphs thanking me for my patronage and offering to assist me with my future financial needs. I guess it's in my favor that he hasn't tried to approach me about this yet, maybe he will just walk away and not try to retaliate. I can drive myself crazy trying to figure out his irrational behavior.

Sorry, I take to long to type my comments and then four more go by before I catch up!

The bank is going to get their money before they let the house go to anyone else. It depends on how the agreement is written, but either your ex or part of the proceeds had to go to paying it off before the new owners could take ownership of the house (sometimes the payment, from whomever, is taken at the closing table, and its done with all the paperwork everyone is signing, so you don't necessarily see a separate transaction). Time can pass between when a house is "sold" and when it at closed (and transfers). When most people say a house is sold, they mean somone offered to buy it, and the owner agreed to the price, and a realtor draws up a sales contract. But it hasn't closed/transferred yet. Some people line up financing in advance, but a lot get a sales contract and then go talk to their bank to finance (they may have been "pre-qualified" before, but now have to do the actual paperwork). Then the bank has to go to work on their end - the loan officer has to get approval for the loan through whatever their policy and procedures are. The bank most likely will get an appraisal done (which, btw, the bank owns, and the owner and purchaser are entitled to copies of, so if the bank still thinks you are a "patron" and still part owner, they might give you a copy of the appraisal to see what it was valued at, but I cant say for sure, depends on the bank). They have to have title work done (which goes through an attorney and can take a little time). And then they have to draw up thr mortgage documents and file thr deed. So while it may have "sold" in June, that was probably when the offer was made and accepted. Then it probably closed in July. And then it probably took a little longer for the bank to do their post- closing and file the mortgage. And so they didn't draw up the letter until that was all completed (August 1 in your case). And it is common for them to take a couple of days to actually get it in the mail after that. Plus then is has to go through the mail (if I mail something here just to go across town, it goes out 90 miles away to be sorted, and then comes back to the same town where it started, so it takes 3 days to got 2 miles!) So the timeframe seems reasonable. The upshot is that equity line had to be paid off before it could transfer. But since he got all the proceeds, he is not entitled to reclaiming any of that from you (he owes you more!) Hope that helps

 

[tzolkin]

So if I'm understanding the replies, paying off this loan would have been a condition of the sale? As in, HE would have had to agree to pay it off either before he sold the house or out of the proceeds of the sale?

Yes, but it’s not like he explicitly went and paid the money himself. Usually the lawyer doing the closing coordinates all the payments (mortgages, realtor fees, taxes, deed registration, etc) and then just gives the seller a check for the reminder.

He would have had to read through the closing documents to see where the money was being allocated. If he’s not the kind of person who pays attention to those types of details, it’s possible that he doesn’t even realize that part of the money went toward paying this loan.

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

Sorry, I take to long to type my comments and then four more go by before I catch up!

The bank is going to get their money before they let the house go to anyone else. It depends on how the agreement is written, but either your ex or part of the proceeds had to go to paying it off before the new owners could take ownership of the house (sometimes the payment, from whomever, is taken at the closing table, and its done with all the paperwork everyone is signing, so you don't necessarily see a separate transaction). Time can pass between when a house is "sold" and when it at closed (and transfers). When most people say a house is sold, they mean somone offered to buy it, and the owner agreed to the price, and a realtor draws up a sales contract. But it hasn't closed/transferred yet. Some people line up financing in advance, but a lot get a sales contract and then go talk to their bank to finance (they may have been "pre-qualified" before, but now have to do the actual paperwork). Then the bank has to go to work on their end - the loan officer has to get approval for the loan through whatever their policy and procedures are. The bank most likely will get an appraisal done (which, btw, the bank owns, and the owner and purchaser are entitled to copies of, so if the bank still thinks you are a "patron" and still part owner, they might give you a copy of the appraisal to see what it was valued at, but I cant say for sure, depends on the bank). They have to have title work done (which goes through an attorney and can take a little time). And then they have to draw up thr mortgage documents and file thr deed. So while it may have "sold" in June, that was probably when the offer was made and accepted. Then it probably closed in July. And then it probably took a little longer for the bank to do their post- closing and file the mortgage. And so they didn't draw up the letter until that was all completed (August 1 in your case). And it is common for them to take a couple of days to actually get it in the mail. So the timeframe seems reasonable. The upshot is that equity line had to be paid off before it could transfer. But since he got all the proceeds, he is not entitled to reclaiming any of that from you (he owes younger more!) Hope that helps

thanks again

 

[barkley]

just a suggestion-in some places the county/state department of child support enforcement will do for FREE (despite your income/asserts) all of the work in pursing child support. in some places they do a small fee but it's deducted from any child support that is ultimately collected.

while they may not be initially successful in collecting ongoing support they are VERY GOOD at monitoring those ordered to pay who fail to. a lien can be placed against any tax returns he might receive AND if he's in line to inherit anything down the line they are VERY ADEPT at making sure it goes to the unmet child support order (i know of someone who failed to pay for decades, also very good at hiding money. nothing worked-even when they jailed him for non payment. his kids were in their 20's when his mom passed (who had no contact with the grandkids)-child support enforcement got a match on his name and the court filing for disposition of the estate-he walked away with nothing while the ex on behalf of the kids got tens upon tens of thousands in child support PLUS penalties and interest due.

it's worth a quick phone call-and since most are connected to local law enforcement agencies they can assist w/safety concerns (refer you in the right direction).

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

Yes, but it’s not like he explicitly went and paid the money himself. Usually the lawyer doing the closing coordinates all the payments (mortgages, realtor fees, taxes, deed registration, etc) and then just gives the seller a check for the reminder.

He would have had to read through the closing documents to see where the money was being allocated. If he’s not the kind of person who pays attention to those types of details, it’s possible that he doesn’t even realize that part of the money went toward paying this loan.

I dearly hope so. Just figured out he is out of state right now, probably spending the money from the sale of the house. So now I get to be a basket case about this until he is back from his trip! Thanks for the reply.

 

[Sabeking]

It's ok, thank you for your concern. I'm just trying to understand this. The letter the bank sent to me is dated from August 1st, but I just got it today. And the info I have about the sale of the house is that it was going to be finalized in July. So I'm wondering why it took so long to pay off the bank then? And why they took so long to send that letter? There is literally no information contained in the letter from the bank, I've read it at least 10 times, there is just one sentence stating the loan was "paid off/or refinanced" and that is a direct quote from my letter. then 2 paragraphs thanking me for my patronage and offering to assist me with my future financial needs. I guess it's in my favor that he hasn't tried to approach me about this yet, maybe he will just walk away and not try to retaliate. I can drive myself crazy trying to figure out his irrational behavior.

Unfortunately you will really need to speak to the bank tomorrow based on the one sentence you included in the last post saying refinancing may have occurred. He may have paid that mortgage and credit line by simply creating a new contract with the existing bank at a lower rate. So the house may not be sold unless you know for certain from the cousin. Did he/ she say that it definitely had sold?

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

just a suggestion-in some places the county/state department of child support enforcement will do for FREE (despite your income/asserts) all of the work in pursing child support. in some places they do a small fee but it's deducted from any child support that is ultimately collected.

while they may not be initially successful in collecting ongoing support they are VERY GOOD at monitoring those ordered to pay who fail to. a lien can be placed against any tax returns he might receive AND if he's in line to inherit anything down the line they are VERY ADEPT at making sure it goes to the unmet child support order (i know of someone who failed to pay for decades, also very good at hiding money. nothing worked-even when they jailed him for non payment. his kids were in their 20's when his mom passed (who had no contact with the grandkids)-child support enforcement got a match on his name and the court filing for disposition of the estate-he walked away with nothing while the ex on behalf of the kids got tens upon tens of thousands in child support PLUS penalties and interest due.

it's worth a quick phone call-and since most are connected to local law enforcement agencies they can assist w/safety concerns (refer you in the right direction).

It's fun to fantasize about putting him behind bars for child support but it's not worth it. Assuming he is going to let this matter drop I'm going to look at this as an unexpected blessing and be grateful to have the extra money every month. Already decided it's going in a vacation fund

 

[tylerandalexsmom]

Unfortunately you will really need to speak to the bank tomorrow based on the one sentence you included in the last post saying refinancing may have occurred. He may have paid that mortgage and credit line by simply creating a new contract with the existing bank at a lower rate. So the house may not be sold unless you know for certain from the cousin. Did he/ she say that it definitely had sold?

But she would have had to sign the new documents for her name to be on any new loan. And anyway, they cant keep an equity line on a house they no longer own. So it had to be paid off.

 

[focusondisney]

Was your name on the title to the house? What did your divorce decree say about the assets & debts from your marriage? This should have all been settled in your divorce settlement. And the child support is a separate issue.

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

Unfortunately you will really need to speak to the bank tomorrow based on the one sentence you included in the last post saying refinancing may have occurred. He may have paid that mortgage and credit line by simply creating a new contract with the existing bank at a lower rate. So the house may not be sold unless you know for certain from the cousin. Did he/ she say that it definitely had sold?

I haven't spoken with the cousin since June, but the last time we spoke she said he had found a buyer and agreed to a sale price (1/3 of the value of the house and property!!!) and that the sale would "go through" sometime in July. Apparently she tried to stick up for me and the kids and he got mad and dropped her as his realtor, he sold the house to one of those "We buy any house" companies so I don't think she had all the information about it. I'm thinking he is blowing through money fast and that's why he rushed the sale of the house. But I'm just speculating, I don't really know. We argued about some things back in late may/early June through email, like I said, he tried to get me to sign off on paying off the loan as a form of child support. I don't have much more info than that.

Can the bank refinance without my approval? Since it is a joint account, don't I have to sign off on a refinance? The letter reads like a form letter that they send out to anyone who closes an account so that's what I assume it is.

 

[focusondisney]

Can the bank refinance without my approval? Since it is a joint account, don't I have to sign off on a refinance?

Of course the bank can’t issue a new loan in your name without your signature. So unless you think your ex had someone pose as you in order to reapply, there is no new loan in your name. And I still can’t figure out why you still have a joint debt or account with your ex after 2 years? Why was that not separated with your divorce?

As far as the loan being paid for the sale of the house, it is basically the same thing as a mortgage on the property. It is a loan against the value of the asset (the house), When you take out a mortgage or loan on a property, there is basically a lien against the property. And all liens must be paid in order to transfer the property. It is the same as if there were unpaid taxes on the house.

 

[ronandannette]

So if I'm understanding the replies, paying off this loan would have been a condition of the sale? As in, HE would have had to agree to pay it off either before he sold the house or out of the proceeds of the sale?

Yes - no choice at all. But as a condition of the current mortgage/line of credit - not a condition of the sale. The total owing to the bank in order to pay out the house would have been the balance of the mortgage and the line of credit, which was secured against the house. In order for the bank to discharge the encumbrance against the title, ALL the money would have had to be paid. Your ex could not have transferred the title on the house without this happening.

 

[wenrob]

I haven't spoken with the cousin since June, but the last time we spoke she said he had found a buyer and agreed to a sale price (1/3 of the value of the house and property!!!) and that the sale would "go through" sometime in July. Apparently she tried to stick up for me and the kids and he got mad and dropped her as his realtor, he sold the house to one of those "We buy any house" companies so I don't think she had all the information about it. I'm thinking he is blowing through money fast and that's why he rushed the sale of the house. But I'm just speculating, I don't really know. We argued about some things back in late may/early June through email, like I said, he tried to get me to sign off on paying off the loan as a form of child support. I don't have much more info than that.

Can the bank refinance without my approval? Since it is a joint account, don't I have to sign off on a refinance? The letter reads like a form letter that they send out to anyone who closes an account so that's what I assume it is.

It sounds like he must have been informed or at least knew that line would have to be paid off in order to sell the house so tried getting you to do it in advance.

No, they cannot refinance something in your name without you signing off on it.

 

[Sabeking]

But she would have had to sign the new documents for her name to be on any new loan. And anyway, they cant keep an equity line on a house they no longer own. So it had to be paid off.

It sounds like he must have been informed or at least knew that line would have to be paid off in order to sell the house so tried getting you to do it in advance.

No, they cannot refinance something in your name without you signing off on it.

So if they cannot refinance without her signature how can they sell it without her signature? I am assuming it was a joint loan.

 

[wenrob]

So if they cannot refinance without her signature how can they sell it without her signature? I am assuming it was a joint loan.

Her name was not on the house. The loan was in both of their names. The loan is against the house that technically only he owns. It can be paid off without her consent and it MUST be paid off to sell the house. It would not be worth him going after her for the loan because then he’d have to share the proceeds from the house.

 

[tylerandalexsmom]

The house was in his name, so he could sell it without her. The equity line included her name, they couldn't do a new loan within her name on it without her signing.

But it doesn't matter - you cannot have an equity line (or any type of loan) on a house you do not own. They no longer own the house, they cant take a loan out on a house someone else now owns. That would be like saying I can take an equity loan out on your house.

 

[Sabeking]

Her name was not on the house. The loan was in both of their names. The loan is against the house that technically only he owns. It can be paid off without her consent and it MUST be paid off to sell the house. It would not be worth him going after her for the loan because then he’d have to share the proceeds from the house.

I must be thick tonight! I understand that the credit line had to be paid off to satisfy the loan. What I don’t understand is how both of their names are on the mortgage but only his signature is needed to sell the house.


Ohhhhh! I just reread your post. Got it! I need coffee or something!

 

[wenrob]

I must be thick tonight! I understand that the credit line had to be paid off to satisfy the loan. What I don’t understand is how both of their names are on the mortgage but only his signature is needed to sell the house.


Ohhhhh! I just reread your post. Got it! I need coffee or something!

I should have specified she was not on the mortgage instead of saying house.

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

Was your name on the title to the house? What did your divorce decree say about the assets & debts from your marriage? This should have all been settled in your divorce settlement. And the child support is a separate issue.

My name was not on the title, but in our state all assets and debts acquired during a marriage are shared (there are a few exceptions in the property laws but the lawyers assured me I was entitled to half the house if I wanted to fight for it).

The rest of it is complicated, but I gave up my claim to everything. You're right, custody and support are separate. There is no custody agreement and no support order. The reason there is no order is because he has legally abandoned his kids at this point. I can file for the abandonment but a judge will still give him a chance to have custody or visitation of the kids if he says he wants it and I don't want to do anything to provoke that. I know that seems crazy, and it makes me uncomfortable to not have an official order, but one of the attorneys I consulted deals with abuse cases and she advised me not to fight him if I don't need the money.

It's hard to explain this to people because they never understand but you have to trust me that my ex-husband is not the kind of man that you want to fight. I have very little documentation about the years of abuse, just a couple of text messages and emails where I was able to provoke him into admitting some stuff after we separated, but even that is shaky. And I never filed for a PFA in all the years of marriage and even after some incidents after we separated, so doing so now when there has been no contact for so long would look bad. The abuse lawyer told me this. Two lawyers looked at what I had and told me I didn't have a good case, that there was no good outcome when you consider the circumstances, especially the fact that fighting him for money leaves my kids vulnerable if I end up with the wrong judge. I don't make much, my income is under $30,000/year including the SSI money that I receive for my son who has special needs. I'm not comfortable saying any more than that, but I'm over the income limit for free legal help in my state. The price I was quoted for reduced price legal help was $70/hour, which adds up quick! So I retained a lawyer on my own to file for a quick (cheap) divorce, but she warned me that doing so means I give up all my rights to marital assets. He got everything, the house and most of it's contents, vehicles, retirement accounts, etc. and I've accepted that because every day that the kids and I are free we win, as far as I'm concerned. At this point I'm not worried about the money, I've already given it up, I'm just worried about provoking him. I had accepted that I was going to have to pay off the line of credit, I truly don't care about it because it's just money. I don't want to face what will happen if he is angry about having to pay off the line of credit and I don't really understand how the payoff works.

 

[a1tinkfans]

Op: breaks my heart to hear this about your ex and ( no disrespect meant) this entire sad saga.
I say good riddance ...to him and the loan.
I agree with others , the equity line would have had to be fully paid before ownership of the house went to the new owners. Unless fraudulently processed, no new loan/line unless you signed approval of it.
Consider getting a free credit report ( equifax, experian or transunion. It’s absolutely Free and you can put your mind at ease that no other debts are out there, credit cards or otherwise.
Only you can make a decision of whether to
Pursue further attempts to collect money, everything you and your children are owed.

I just want to wish you better days ahead, good Health for you and the kids, financial freedom and at some point... an open heart to share your life. Youre obviously a Brave Strong Woman ... what a great role model for your kids. Best of luck!