Hula's Magic Pin Switch Trick 1/14 MERGED

[mtlhddoc2]

I can say with certainty what fair is. There is no grey in this for me.

Fair is - as defined by WordNet

free from favoritism or self-interest or bias or deception; conforming with established standards or rules; "a fair referee"; "fair deal"; "on a fair footing"

 

[KrazyPete]

And why is it so wrong if a game is filled to capacity within a few seconds of the game opening. You can't expect the hosts to run these games 24/7. If people want to get in the game that badly, then they should log on and do the search for the host room like everyone else. Sometimes they'll have luck, sometimes they won't.

I still think it's a valid point. If the hosts are going to have to work for two hours anyway maybe that time would be better spent at something that would allow more than a 10 second window of opportunity for players. Shortening the queue to something that gives players a chance at clicking in at any point during the event might be a solution. I suspect that a lot of players would mule it for multiple chances at the prize.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

I have no sour grapes. I did alot of other things while in line. I only joined this thread after some of the complainers started getting thoroughly trashed by the people who got into the room and those that think the event was just fine. Do I really care about getting another Tomorrowland pin? Not a whit. I have 30 of each and really do not need any more. If I had gotten in, I would have given away the pin anyway.

The sense of entitlement that I have seen on the boards here never ever comes from the newbies or "poor" people.


"Neither of the above. I hope to get my burger in a timely manner but want it to be cooked properly as I really do not want to deal with salmonella or any of the other fun stuff people get when food isn't handled properly. Taco Bell served their food in a timely manner in my town. Then everyone who had eaten their food on certain days got to be served a Hepatitis A vaccine in a timely manner too."

Come to my local McDonald then, their food is always cooked well and you will not get salmonella, but you will probably have to wait 15-20 minutes for a cheeseburger. Maybe YOU would not be upset about that, but pretty much everyone that ever goes there is.

And just so you know, Hepatitis comes from Hep-infected people playing in the lettuce and other produce, which is not cooked. I also got Hep from a Taco Bell once, went and got my gama-glob shot and all was well. The worker was fired and I was happy. It had absolutely nothing to do with the process with which they cook or make the food.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

I still think it's a valid point. If the hosts are going to have to work for two hours anyway maybe that time would be better spent at something that would allow more than a 10 second window of opportunity for players. Shortening the queue to something that gives players a chance at clicking in at any point during the event might be a solution. I suspect that a lot of players would mule it for multiple chances at the prize.

Thank you Pete

 

[KrazyPete]

I can say with certainty what fair is. There is no grey in this for me.

Fair is - as defined by WordNet

free from favoritism or self-interest or bias or deception; conforming with established standards or rules; "a fair referee"; "fair deal"; "on a fair footing"

If that's going to be our operating definition for "fair" that's fine. I think I would end up on the side that VMK tries very hard to be "fair." Furthermore, "fair" will in some instances mean rewarding those players who have invested time in mastering the nuances of the game.

To me it's a not a question of whether or not it's "fair." At this point, I'm simply asking if it can be done better. To me, that seems like a much more "constructive" discussion. It requires pointing out problems in the existing method and talking through solutions.

ETA: YW, Doc

 

[aengus]

Some excellent points.

game by definition can somewhat blur the definition of fair

game: a contest with rules to determine a winner

in order to have a winner , there has to be a loser.

I cant think of a game where the more experienced players don't dominate. I do like to think that many of the experienced players however balance it out with generousity and sharing their experience on these and other fan forums.

The movie rewards also now have made a more level playing field if you choose to buy movies and related products for the codes. Someone can walk in on day 1 and get an inferno and trade it for quite a bit and get a jump start to the trading aspects of the game.

My son is a world of warcraft junkie. He is level 70, he has everything. When a new person comes across him, they dont have time to utter the word "fair" before he mows them down ROFL.

Along the topic of the queue. You know there could still be a VMK pass with the 50 person cap. I dont use pass often anyways, but I know many of the players love it. GG, totally loved the 50 person limit. It wasnt easy to get in line, but if you were willing to put forward some effort, and there was an hour left in the game, you could probably get it done with persistance.

 

[BriarRosie]

I have no sour grapes. I did alot of other things while in line. I only joined this thread after some of the complainers started getting thoroughly trashed by the people who got into the room and those that think the event was just fine. Do I really care about getting another Tomorrowland pin? Not a whit. I have 30 of each and really do not need any more. If I had gotten in, I would have given away the pin anyway.

And I came in when I saw it was turning into a lot of personal attacks within the complaints. Where was I during the event? At work. Where I am now, reading the DIS as I do either before work starts or now, during my lunch hour. All Disney sites are blocked as restricted per our firewall, no big deal.

I expect kids to complain. I really don't care for the adults who should know better than to complain with the attacks. Is the current setup for getting into these events fair? By your definition or anyone else's...probably not. Life isn't fair.

The sense of entitlement that I have seen on the boards here never ever comes from the newbies or "poor" people.

That's often true. Some of the biggest complainers I've seen are the type who have won inferno back in the day, yet complained about situations like these, because they couldn't get into an event where they could win another inferno, for example.

But the "poor" will always beg out of entitlement, too. I guess nobody wins.

 

[aensming]

Look at the posts here, these types of events, the same people always get in and the same people almost always do not.

That is quite a generalization - some names we see here a lot did get in but that doesn't mean that they always get in. I can count on 4, yes 4, fingers the number of times I have made it into a pin trade event. 2 of those were at the first trade events for the Everest 3 of 5 pin - a long time ago. This is a game with so many players that are well known - very few of them actually got in. During my brief time in the room, I saw about 10 other players inside. The ONLY person I was familiar with was Hula. I didn't know any of the other players from here at DIS or elsewhere.

Don't assume also that people were getting things for only themselves. I have most of the pins out there but I was trying to fill a hole in my son's collection. There are so many generous people here who use these kinds of events to fill dreams for others. Don't assume that someone is greedy wanting to get into this event.

If that's going to be our operating definition for "fair" that's fine. I think I would end up on the side that VMK tries very hard to be "fair." Furthermore, "fair" will in some instances mean rewarding those players who have invested time in mastering the nuances of the game.

I believe that VMK tries very hard to make the game fair for anyone. But, in order to take advantage of everything the game has to offer, one has to commit quite a bit of time and effort - In this case, be on time for the host game and be prepared to wait in line. Others may want to spend their time and effort on playing mini games and trading credits or items for the rare items they want. It all depends on how you want to play this game.

I think I have said all I need to - time to get back to real life and what is truly important to me -

 

[Mnementh]

Shortening the queue to something that gives players a chance at clicking in at any point during the event might be a solution.

Yeah, I've thought for a while now that the pin trading events, and ONLY the pin trading events, should be switched back tothe 50 person queue limit. I don't know if that would be possile for only one type of game, but if it is, that would be a great change.

 

[threeboysmom]

Pink? Why is he allowed off the pirates dock?

Oh my gosh, I am so trying, but he somehow keeps escaping my clutch and making his way back here... Grrr....

Wow, everytime I log onto DIS, I'm surprised this thread is still going... and going... and going....

I'm standing on totally neutral ground made of sea-weathered wooden planks... irate:

 

[KrazyPete]

Oh my gosh, I am so trying, but he somehow keeps escaping my clutch and making his way back here... Grrr....

Wow, everytime I log onto DIS, I'm surprised this thread is still going... and going... and going....

I'm standing on totally neutral ground made of sea-weathered wooden planks... irate:

Darn it all Pink! Can't you see that I'm trying to save the world over here! This is important! This is about fairness, entitlements, class warfare... and pretend pins. This thread could change the direction of the game and the hearts and minds of its players! This thread won't die because it's a revolution!

Viva la revolution!!!

 

[TLinden16]

I still think it's a valid point. If the hosts are going to have to work for two hours anyway maybe that time would be better spent at something that would allow more than a 10 second window of opportunity for players. Shortening the queue to something that gives players a chance at clicking in at any point during the event might be a solution. I suspect that a lot of players would mule it for multiple chances at the prize.

But why should the people who got there on time, and made all their clicks at the right moment be penalized just so that others who showed up five minutes late or have a slower computer or just had no luck on that particular day can get in?

Personally, I would hate the return to the 50 player limit lines because clicking and getting into a line where I have the ability to make the decision as to whether or not I will make it into the event is a lot better than running into a line with a 50 person limit, and going back to the days when we had to click for an hour and hope to click at the right moment.

Do you really want to go back to opening the room list, clicking to try to get in a room with a limit, not getting in, and having to repeat that same process 50 times in the next hour in hopes that you will be the lucky person to click at the precise moment when someone else is waiting?

Or maybe it's time for players to set their own limits. Don't run your mules. If you got in a trading event once this month, don't even try again so that other players don't have the chance can get in. Chances are the people who get a duplicate are just going to turn around and trade it to someone who couldn't get the item on their own for far more than what it's worth.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

But why should the people who got there on time, and made all their clicks at the right moment be penalized just so that others who showed up five minutes late or have a slower computer or just had no luck on that particular day can get in?

They wouldnt be, they would still be in the 50 person queue, as proposed by some others. This particular event, it would have given, maybe 15-20 spots to those who did not "show up on time" (which, I do not agree with that notion, anyway, thats part of the issue, I believe).

 

[qruthie]

"Neither of the above. I hope to get my burger in a timely manner but want it to be cooked properly as I really do not want to deal with salmonella or any of the other fun stuff people get when food isn't handled properly. Taco Bell served their food in a timely manner in my town. Then everyone who had eaten their food on certain days got to be served a Hepatitis A vaccine in a timely manner too."

Come to my local McDonald then, their food is always cooked well and you will not get salmonella, but you will probably have to wait 15-20 minutes for a cheeseburger. Maybe YOU would not be upset about that, but pretty much everyone that ever goes there is.

And just so you know, Hepatitis comes from Hep-infected people playing in the lettuce and other produce, which is not cooked. I also got Hep from a Taco Bell once, went and got my gama-glob shot and all was well. The worker was fired and I was happy. It had absolutely nothing to do with the process with which they cook or make the food.

I know how Hepatitis A is passed. Here is what your original post said:
"when you go to McDonalds and order a burger, do you really care about a new process by which they make the burgers? or do you just care about getting your burger in a timely manner?"

It says nothing about how the burger is cooked, it asks if I really care about the new process for making burgers. I care a lot about the process when it is made so efficient that employees opt to handle the food (assemble my burger - ok, so McDonald's doesn't put lettuce on a quarter pounder with cheese but that's just a technicality) without first washing their hands for example. I'm more than willing to wait longer for my burger in order to allow for the proper handling procedures or process are followed. Wash your hands, wear gloves, cook the meat to the proper temperature, etc.. So yes, I would wait 20 minutes for a burger that was properly handled during assembly. However, I understand and expect that many people would not find that wait to be acceptable. Unless those people are totally insane or into punishing themselves, I would think they would opt to buy their burgers somewhere else.

Just to give you a glimpse into my personality, I'm super patient and choose to live with inconvenience in my life. I am the sort of person who will drive a few miles out of my way or make three right turns in order to avoid a left turn in a busy intersection. When I paint rooms in my house, I paint with the roller first then use a small brush to paint closer to the edges. For the final step, I go around the edges with a lettering brush. My finished rooms look much better than what most professional painters do. However, I doubt anyone would ever hire me to paint their walls. This lifestyle carries over into how I play VMK and what I expect of VMK.

Bringing this back to the host events. I almost never try to take part in a pin event. I have plenty of pins with only a couple missing from my collection beyond the pins that are awards and can't be traded. If I do try, I look at my place in line and almost always decide to leave. Yesterday was the exception and it happened to go quite well for me. But I do understand that many people were disappointed. It would be wonderful if these trade events could be made more efficient and could accommodate many more players. I just think there isn't much that can be done given the constraints of VMK. Even if Phinny had hosted the pin trading event, the majority of players still would not have been able to participate.

Last night I got in line for Host Phinny's game it sounded fun. I was about 500th in line. I had no clue how many people would get into the room for the game so I guessed my chances of getting in probably weren't good (she did say the game would be slower than usual events) and got out of line. I spent the rest of my time playing ghosts. Maybe I will get to try it next time.

 

[Mnementh]

Do you really want to go back to opening the room list, clicking to try to get in a room with a limit, not getting in, and having to repeat that same process 50 times in the next hour in hopes that you will be the lucky person to click at the precise moment when someone else is waiting?

Honestly, yes, but again, only during pin trades. That was a lot less stressful because you were guaranteed to make it into the room (unless you DCed) if you were in line, which is a lot better than being first in line with a minute to go and praying that you get in only to find out that you didn't make it.

 

[KrazyPete]

Do you really want to go back to opening the room list, clicking to try to get in a room with a limit, not getting in, and having to repeat that same process 50 times in the next hour in hopes that you will be the lucky person to click at the precise moment when someone else is waiting?

That's not my idea, I was just repeating it as a possible solution. I added that I believe people will just mule the event if we went back to that system. The way it is now you're lucky to get in once. No one is trying to get back in line with a mule. That happened all the time before.

Or maybe it's time for players to set their own limits. Don't run your mules.

If mules can be run through the event they will be run through the event. I think the point of system we have now was to mitigate that. I don't think we can expect many players to moderate their own greed.

Every solution seems to be flawed. Either players have a 10 second chance at getting into a host event, or people will mule them. Maybe this is what it's like to be a VMK host. They do it the way they do it, not because they like it, but because they can't think of a better way.

 

[mzspaz]

I am someone that missed out on both events yesterday by only a handful of people. And yes, I was a bit miffed that I spent that time on line waiting (not playing any games to earn credits because I did not want to crash) without anything to really show for it.

After getting into the event with Hula today, I think I have an better understanding.

WE are the ones that make it tough for Hula to do her job as well as for others to get in the room. And I mean WE as a general statement - not directing it just at Dis members but at VMK members as a whole.

When I was in there today, people were talking about EVERYTHING and not even playing the game. Several people brought up yesterdays event and the fact that they could not get in. One even asked for a pin as a make up. One person was asking about someone who is dead?? (Buzz Hyper or something? totally confused on that on)

Hula played the gracious Host and tried to talk to everyone and answer their questions. But it wasted precious time. It also wasted time at the end when people swarmed Hula and did not exit as she asked them. One person wanted their picture retaken with her a bunch of times because it did not come out right.

I've worked in the customer service field for 10 years and let me tell you, the courtesy needs to come from both ends. Yes Hula does need to address computer issues if she is indeed having them but on the same level, we need to respect that Hula is there to do a job and let her get it done, not interrupt her with other things not related. Today we were there to play a game. Pin talk should have been left out of it.

To keep to the fast food analogy....what I saw today was like someone sitting in the drive thru window at McDonalds and ordering a Taco....wrong place at the wrong time. And then refusing to move over to Taco Bell when they are told McDonalds does not have Tacos.

Perhaps this has been discussed before....perhaps I am totally off base....but that is just what I picked up on, as someone who is new to these events...today.

 

[poohluv2u]

 

[moikturtle]

Maybe my eyes were starting to blur half way through all these posts, but did I miss something?

Yes you did.

Okay, well I went back and re-read every single post. And I still stand by what I said. This is a run-down of what I saw.

There were comments about Hula being late, and how this is a regular thing. Most of these comments were made in good humor, with a joking tone. None of the comments that I saw about her regularly being late were said in a manner that would be misconstrued as a personal attack. Besides, it's a fact, she IS very frequently late, and I'm sure that even SHE jokes about it.

There were comments from people saying they wish they would make the event available for more people. Nothing unreasonable or insulting about that. Plus, there were suggestions along with that criticism.

One comment was made that it was "a wasted host room event"...which STILL isn't a personal attack on Hula. If someone felt that people's time was wasted, that's their opinion. Plus, that same person clarified that they hate how events are handled, not the hosts themselves.

There was questioning about why Hula was taking a break to do Treasure Detector Magic. Again, how is that insulting to her? I would wonder the same. After people explained that she was probably showing someone how to use the magic, I'm sure there was a better understanding of it.

A lot of the complaints were about Hula having really bad computer problems. And, as I said before, all of those comments were prefaced with positive statements about Hula herself. One person even suggested that maybe DISNEY should do something about this issue.

There was some discussion about how many people might be able to get through, factoring in the late start. When this was being discussed, it was not yet known that she was going to go the full two hours. And when someone made a comment about the five minute difference they were CLEARLY joking, as indicated by the numerous uses of "lol".

Personally, I think the biggest issue with this thread is that people are reading too much into statements. Which, that happens a lot on the internet. It's very difficult to communicate a lot of things through type, because there is a lacking of voice tone and facial expressions. People will read something and "hear" it in a way which was not the original writer's intention at all. A lot of the comments in this post pertained to the fact that Hula's computer is slow and clearly has issues...something that others seem to be taking to mean as the complainers are saying that she should not be a host at all. I am certain that is not what anyone meant at all. I STILL never saw a direct attack on Hula as a person, even from those who complained about how the event went.

And, if someone was unhappy with how things went, I don't understand why this can't be a forum where they can express that, as long as they are not making horrible personal attacks. It always seems like anytime anyone has a complaint about anything pertaining to this game, people go into defense mode and act like they are being unreasonable to complain. It's a fact of life that people complain. Not everyone is always happy with everything, and just as everyone else has the right to sing praises, others have the right to complain as well. Nothing is perfect and no one is perfect and that's just the way it is.

 

[FlyingPegasus]

If anyone has a right to complain about anything it is ME!

I have patiently waited over 2 1/2 years for my Flying Carpet Magic Pin!!!!

Solution: Tell Yavn to just give poor FlyingPegasus his Flying Carpet Magic Pin, since he is never on to use it himself, and all will be right with our little virtual world....................

Seriously people take a chill pill and give it a rest already, if you don't like the way the game is handled....LEAVE and go play something else. Better yet unplug your computer for five days and see how it feels to go without it for a while.

I would also like to challenge you to make a game room, give out rare prizes and see how much fun it is to deal with the masses that come through YOUR room...you will have a whole new appreciation of the hosts and what they have to put up with.

Fly